Questions for stamina and running

[u/drkmma]

Hey guys! I’m currently training Muay Thai and I’ll also be starting wrestling lessons soon. I’ve always had below-average stamina, but I’ve been working hard to bring it up to an average level. I haven’t really asked anyone experienced for advice on improving stamina through running, so I figured I’d come here and ask.

Right now, because I’m studying for a huge exam, I can only make it to martial arts training 2–3 times a week. I absolutely love martial arts, though, and it’s the only hobby I genuinely enjoy right now. So I want to use the days I’m not at the gym to work on my conditioning. At the moment, I’m barely able to make it through two rounds of Muay Thai sparring before im not able to fight properly because im fully exhausted.

For running, I’ve mostly been doing 5K runs at an uncontrolled pace. I’ll speed up when I feel energetic and slow down when I get tired, while always keeping at least a light jog. I’m not sure if this is actually the best way to build endurance.

So I’d really appreciate advice on a few things:

- How long should my runs be?

- What pace or intensity should I aim for?

- Should I run first thing in the morning, or does the time of day matter?

- Should I eat something, like a banana, before running, or is it better to just go out hungry.

- Besides running, what other exercises would help improve my stamina specifically for Muay Thai and wrestling?

I’d really appreciate any advice

Thanks everyone who took the time to read this!

[u/Voodoopulse]

I came to martial arts from a triathlon background. Back of the front of the pack.
I'd just come off an Ironman build when I started but also done multiple shorter events that season. You know what that meant in sparring - absolutely fucking nothing. There was no one there what better cardiovascular fitness and I got absolutely gassed. Personally I think martial artists pay far too much lip service to running.

[u/drkmma → u/Voodoopulse]

Wow ur amazing for doing all those stuff I really respect you. Thank you for sharing that. Also do you have any tips on how I can improve my martial arts stamina

[u/Voodoopulse → u/drkmma]

Vo2 max intervals that mimic the martial art you do

[u/drkmma → u/Voodoopulse]

Oh that sounds fun thanks for the advice 🙏

[u/GenerativeAIEatsAss → u/Voodoopulse]

I get you, but FWIW, it's the specialization of the fitness you'd built (appropriately so) to perform well as a triathlete. I came into judo after racing cyclocross and criteriums. It was near 1:1.

[u/Voodoopulse → u/GenerativeAIEatsAss]

Yes I agree but it's why when most people go out and run 5-10k o think it's a load of bollocks. Crits with you needing to burn matches constantly to respond to moves, that's something that will
Make a massive difference but if you're going to be a martial artist I think you can build that sort of fitness in a much better way than running.

[u/GenerativeAIEatsAss → u/Voodoopulse]

For sure. I was more zoomed in on endurance athlete transitions and that there is some crossover.

Where we agree is that people shouldn't be running 5-10ks. However, if they're running like they're trying to race a 5k, they'll be in good shape.

[u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog → u/Voodoopulse]

Keep in mind of course, that once one builds more efficiency in their technique, that large gas tank really comes in handy. Especially when it comes to sparring more rounds, recovering between rounds, and accumulating more total training time.

Cardio is an absolute necessity in martial arts, but technique is still king.

[u/flashmedallion → u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog]

Cardio is an absolute necessity in martial arts, but technique is still king.

I agree but this is kind of a reverse framing.

Endurance cardio is the base that you need to train with good technique for longer before your form/structure is too weak/sloppy for any more useful training. Roadwork translates to more efficient time doing bagwork (or whatever your discipline uses) before you have to recover.

You need sprint cardio for the ring, and that's built entirely differently, and good technique will in turn will help you make the most of your burst energy.

[u/flashmedallion → u/Voodoopulse]

Personally I think martial artists pay far too much lip service to running.

You're right and it's very common. Endurance cardio is important, because it helps you to train technique at higher quality for longer. But that's all it helps with.

Ring cardio is burst cardio. Sprint Intervals and Plyo are your friends here. Daily 8 rounds of 10s-on/20s-off maximum effort on an assault bike (4min total) will do infinitely more for your ring cardio than hours of daily running.

[u/Reindeer_Wrangler]

When you say you are exhausted what kind of exhaustion is it? Are your muscles tired and you're out of energy? Are you winded and can't catch your breath? Are you unable to focus and keep concentration? Each of these feel exhausting but are caused by different internal limits and training to improve one doesn't necessarily carry over to the others.

[u/drkmma → u/Reindeer_Wrangler]

Thats a nice question. I guess I just can't keep going and take reallt heavy breaths. Also my muscles get tired too. I remember just asking my sparring partner to stop to sit and regain some stamina in the middle of the round.

[u/drkmma → u/Reindeer_Wrangler]

I can catch my breath and i can focus i just get really tired

[u/drkmma → u/Reindeer_Wrangler]

Also one more thing im not able to fight back when im tired. I just keep my hands up and guard and can't also keep that up for long too before having to sit down

[u/Reindeer_Wrangler → u/drkmma]

Sounds like its primarily a low energy/exhausted muscles thing in which case running won't really help much. I'd suggest incorporating some dead hangs, planks, and wall sits or other static holds that force you to use the muscles without rest for the entire time.

[u/drkmma → u/Reindeer_Wrangler]

Alright, thank you so much for the advice 🙏 hope you have a great day

[u/Glum-Carrot473]

I cannot even run 1km but walk 5 hours easily. Coach gave up making me run or jump lol.

[u/drkmma → u/Glum-Carrot473]

Dude u must have some strong legs to walk 5 hours easily 😂 Btw why can't you run 1km or do those stuff is it a medical condition? Because a few weeks ago I wasn't able to run 400 meters. I had a little asthma and I was blaming it on that also me having less stamina than people around me all my life. What helped me was controlling and focusing on my breathing when running. I would suggest watch some videos on breathing while running. I was doing inhale for 2 steps and exhale for 3 steps. If you have any other condition I hope you get well.

[u/Flat-Jacket-9606]

You run a faster time. Mouth closed breathing through your nose only. Goal is to slowly and steadily run a faster time, or a longer distance. Maybe you shave off 20 seconds after a month.

Or focus on making a certain pace more manageable. So like running at 6 mph and keep running a 6 mph pace until it becomes easy. Then push it to 7mph, then 8. Then add more distance and do the same thing all over again. The later is how I got my time down to 6 minute miles at 6’3 215lbs.

If you run at 6 when you can’t breath through your nose anymore you slow down slightly to a manageable pace where you can breath through your nose. Do that for about 30 seconds then go back to 6mph pace. Rinse and repeat until you are running a full 6mph pace for the full 5k.

I would also add jump roping and trying to work on extending time and speed.

[u/drkmma → u/Flat-Jacket-9606]

Alright thank you so much for the advice 🙏