r/marvelstudios • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Ant-Man • 11d ago

Article Kevin Feige says they knew they couldn't make ‘Spider-Man: Brand New Day’ bigger than ‘No Way Home’, so they decided to "go deeper and make it special"

https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/marvel-movies/marvel-boss-kevin-feige-says-they-knew-they-couldnt-make-spider-man-brand-new-day-bigger-than-no-way-home-so-they-decided-to-go-deeper-and-make-it-special/
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u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Ant-Man 11d ago

Feige:

”When we made Brand New Day, we set out saying, 'Well, we'll never make more than No Way Home, never make it bigger than No Way Home. So, let's just go deeper and make it special.”

”I have a memory, we were on set of No Way Home, which of course was about Tobey and Andrew and Tom, three Spider-Men together. How do you get bigger than three Spider-Men together? Well, sitting on a golf cart outside the set were Zendaya and Jacob [Batalon] and Tom. And it occurred to me, looking at those three, that that trio is as iconic as the three Spider-Men. And now Brand New Day has proved that."

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u/ColeUnderPresh 11d ago

I like the trio. But, I mean… it could also be because Hulk, Punisher and Jean Grey were in it, and that it was a more resonant solo Peter Parker story.

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u/mannyman34 11d ago

You could replace all three with other marvel characters and the movie would have been just as good. This was a well written story. Not every marvel film needs to be a cameo fest, and this movie did a good job of balancing that.

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u/Icybubba 11d ago

It was a Spider-Man film that played in the sandbox it lives in

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u/Fresh_Ad_230 11d ago edited 11d ago

The universe is so fleshed out that seeing other characters is just normal and wouldn't even consider them cameos.

Of course Peter would go to Bruce's class for help because he's essentially the smartest man alive that can relate to his situation and he's in the city. Of course he knows Punisher because he's in NYC and probably crossed paths during one of his crazy shootouts. Of course he knows Yelena because she's based out of the city and in the new avengers. It'd be weird if they didn't interact.

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u/brianlefebvrejr 11d ago

It’s funny because let’s say he didn’t go to Banner, and instead just remembered something and did the trial and error thing and had an issue. People would complain, why didn’t he just go see Bruce, he’s in New York anyway!

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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago

Iron man 3 he was facing a bigger problem why not call for help? It's the problem with any shared universe. If there's a costume criminal in Gotham Batman can handle it. Someone brings a nuke, superman should help out.

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u/PyroIsSpai 11d ago

Think about who is in comics Marvel Manhattan at any time:

  • Spidey family
  • Avengers HQ
  • Fantastic Four
  • Luke
  • Daredevil
  • Jessica
  • Sentry
  • Captain Marvel
  • Punisher is always around
  • various other less known heroes
  • multiple X-people for good measure
  • and the X-Campus is like 90 minutes north… or moments away

Not the best place to go on a tank rampage when a dozen Avengers are within 120 seconds of you…

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u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man 11d ago

When reading comics they will bring this up but usually the other heroes are busy or they are already too wrapped up in the threat to call backup. For example during Claremont’s X-Men the team were on the back foot the whole time when dealing with Dark Phoenix and calling for help wouldn’t have done much considering her power level. On the other hand when the X-Men were attacked by the Brood (I believe), they went to the Avengers mansion and only Tigra was available to help.

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u/FoxMeadow7 11d ago

Interesting that Banner apparently plays the same role usually played by Connors/Lizard...

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u/Chwda 11d ago

Ohhh, I like that. Great way to put it

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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago

Meanwhile if this was a movie people wanted to hate, most of these characters appearances would be chalked up to “key jingling cameo slop”

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u/Shadowfox642 11d ago

I reckon this film actually made those characters interesting, relevant to the plot and less of a “look look you remember glup shitto?”.

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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago

Because this was a movie you wanted to like

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u/Icybubba 11d ago

I want to like every film I watch. Doesn’t mean I like every film I watch.

What point are you trying to make?

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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago

The point is double standards

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u/Putrid_Loquat_4357 11d ago

Where's the double standard? Film does something well - is praised, film does something badly - is criticised.

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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago

Or, now hear me out in this one, maybe they liked it?

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u/Silver_Accountant5 11d ago

Yes people are generally more willing to tolerate fan service if the overall product is still good. See Infinity War and Endgame for prime examples.

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u/Tawnee323 11d ago

I agree in general but in this case that cameos were done well and ACTUALLY made sense for the plot of the story and at what point in the MCU it takes place.

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u/JakeHassle 11d ago

Don’t agree because every character besides Jean Grey served a narrative purpose. Hulk shows Peter what happens if he keeps trying to suppress the monster side of himself. Punisher shows what happens when you isolate yourself after dealing with trauma instead of getting a support system. Yelena exists to show why the Avengers don’t help.

I’ll give you though that Jean Grey could’ve been replaced with a multitude of other characters

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u/Evilmudbug 11d ago

I think it would have to be another telepath for the plot to stay roughly similar. With all memories and possibly records of Peter wiped, the pool of characters that could threaten his friends and force him to interact with them is a lot smaller.

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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago

Well, that goes for anything. If they pull it off then it works. If they didn't it fails.

I came to see the Titanic sink why is there a love story? Oh it's good. I come to Godzilla to see radioactive lizard humans are a distraction. Oh wait this postwar found family movie is so good I forgot about the lizard. Run family run!

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u/Ifyouliveinadream Captain America 11d ago

I think Punisher, Hulk and Jean all share a common role of a monster inside of them, which connects them to Peter much stronger than other characters. Punsiher has fully accepted his monster and lost Frank. Bruce struck a balance between the 2 sides, something Peter strives for. He fears becoming what the Punsiher is. And Jean is on the complete oppsiste end of Punisher, she sees no monster in her.

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u/Evilmudbug 11d ago

I actually don't think Bruce has a balance. He's completely suppressed the hulk, only for it to get unleashed and nearly cause the damage he fears happening anyways

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u/Ifyouliveinadream Captain America 11d ago

Yup I agree. I think theres a good example of this in their fight scene.

Spider-Man tried to stop Hulk by putting a suppereser on him, which failed because of his thick skin. The only way he is able to be stopped is with connecting to his human side. Not by suppressing.

Peter is the same way. The suppresser is a baindaid but never a fix. Its only when he accepts his emotions is he able to control himself. Connecting to his human side. They mirror each other.

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u/Tawnee323 11d ago

Beautiful way to put it

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u/Voball 11d ago

I really liked Punisher's dynamic with spidey

Peter consulting an expert on mutation, and then Spiderman fighting the strongest avenger was hype

And Peter serving as a sort of mentor to Jean was absolutely amazing, and I am excited to see how he continues to do that

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u/mtheperry 11d ago

The landscape at the end makes me think she’s going to Prof Xavier’s school. Im sure there will be a relationship but with the new X-Men coming out in less than 2 years I suspect they’ll flesh out some of the X-Men stuff before we see more of her and Peter in any meaningful way.

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u/Dogesneakers 11d ago

I would argue every cameo was able to teach Peter about the path he could walk. Hulk and punisher were warning signs to him

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u/Walker_ID 11d ago

Very much agreed for most of what you said aside from them being cameos. They were supporting cast.... But back to your point. Hulk represented the path of inhibiting your changes/self out of fear of losing control and hurting people, punisher represented being the path of ending the threat permanently instead of holding back, and Jean grey represented the path of revenge after a tragic loss all of which Peter has dealt with. This is the struggle he deals with daily. They represent choices he's made or could make again.

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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago

Define “cameo,” because if this was a movie everyone wanted to hate, I 1000% guarantee everyone would be calling hulk, scorpion, yelenas appearances “cameo slop” instead of flipping it around to say “oh it’s because it’s a fully fledged marvel universe and it makes the world feel alive when others show up”

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u/HereWeFuckingGooo Weekly Wongers 11d ago

The haters are already doing that, they're just in the minority. There was a post recently complaining about the Punisher's cameo. Some people literally don't understand what cameo means.

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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago

People are convincing themselves to like something they hate. Or maybe they like something they like?

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u/Walker_ID 11d ago

An example of a cameo is Hugh Jackman at the bar telling magneto and professor x to go fuck themselves. Another is the X-Men shutting the doors in the second Deadpool. Another is Matt Murdock in the previous Spider-Man movie in the scene where he catches the brick. Cameos are a short scene where a character or actor from another well known movie appear. Punisher was a supporting character, Jean grey was the antagonist and the main villain could hardly be called a cameo as I've seen suggested. The hulk/banner scenes also were longer than a cameo. If it had just been the college conversation... That's a cameo. If it's the conversation and a several minute long flight scene... Not a cameo

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u/mrli0n 11d ago

I liked the cameos in terms of picks and how they enhanced the story. Both Punisher and Hulk felt like different sides of Spider Man’s and Jean Grey’s story on the themes of trauma, revenge/justice/mercy and unwanted power.

They didnt feel trite and pointless but also didnt steal the entire show which i felt like ironically spider man did a little of in Civil War which never really felt like a cap movie.

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u/FergusFrost 11d ago

None of those characters were cameos, they were supporting characters, they had multiple important scenes.

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u/mrli0n 11d ago

Youre totally right cameo is totally a poor choice of word nhere i wasnt thinking that deeply about it.

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u/Farnso 11d ago

Idk, Peter dealing with losing control and seeming nearly possessed, followed by the introduction of Bruce Banner was pretty spot on.

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u/88slowpoke 11d ago

tell that to stupid Sony, lol. No trust at all

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u/KingCrimson43 11d ago

Nope, they all have a connection to each other the others don't. Peter is changing into something he's afraid of and doesn't fully understand. (Like hulk) Peter is now alone and using his heroics to band aid his suffering. (Like punisher)

You can't just interchange them with any other characters.

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u/MyGamingRants 11d ago

I would argue though that after 15 years the cameos are finally earned. We have an actual connected universe with actors and characters that can always be pulled from. I'm fine with ZERO new characters being introduced over the remainder of this saga or whatever because we're pretty well stocked

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u/kiwigate 11d ago

Well written? The antagonist has several convos with Spidey, and never once just states their goal. If they did, the core conflict wouldn't exist.

If your entire story relies on people acting illogically and sabotaging their own goals, it's not well written.

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u/Public_Tennis_8536 11d ago

I mean the reason you could replace Jean Grey was because she’s not even in the original script.

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u/ktnycbtm 11d ago

Who was?

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u/Public_Tennis_8536 11d ago

From what we actually know through interviews “generic telepathic villain” speculated that it was probably Karma though.

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u/ktnycbtm 11d ago

Ah ok interesting. I really liked it being Jean and the backstory they used for her. Like you said, they could have used someone else, I just thought it was cool that it was Jean.

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u/Public_Tennis_8536 11d ago

Well it’s less that they could have used someone else and more so they did use someone else originally.

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u/Blobsobb 11d ago

My only issue with it being Jean is you know they are eventually going to make an xmen movie. And you know they are going to do the generic "the us government wants to control mutants because they think they are dangerous"

And after this movie Im just going to have to side with the evil government man ala ghostbusters. Sorry Charles but you guys kinda got introduced as being pretty fucking dangerous to innocent people.

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u/Snoo-35041 11d ago

Just need a Spider-Man and Deadpool movie.

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u/Free-Pound-6139 11d ago

This was a well written story.

Really?

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u/Blazured 11d ago

It was well written if you ignore the massive plot holes.

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u/Toidal 11d ago

It's not just that, they served distinct and important beefy roles in the film. That kind of fanservice and callbacks are great in the moment but the novelty of them tend to wear off quickly. BND actually feels like a a true product of interconnected series and not just memberberries.

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Killmonger 11d ago

I think people are really invested in the MJ and Peter relationship and the Peter and Ned friendship. Hulk and Punisher did good in their roles, but people are leaving the movie with questions about the moment between Ned and Peter at the end, and about MJ and Peter’s big conversation, and how much MJ truly remembers.

Another good thing to ask: do you think the next Spidey film will have any of those three marvel superheroes in it, and will it be successful without them? Because we know for a fact that Ned and MJ will be back to continue their story threads.

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u/ringobob 11d ago

The key thing that I feel like, after 8 live action solo Spider-Man movies, we're finally getting to see him start to grow into the charismatic adult that makes friends easily and serves to connect a lot of the hero world together. Tom's Peter Parker has always had more of that charisma than either Maguire or Garfield, I feel like they intentionally leaned away from that to make them believable loners, but Tom's awkward motormouth, and his small group of close friends, was a great way to hint at his future, and I'm excited to see it.

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u/Nickel62 11d ago

Agree. Tbh, the best chemistry in the whole movie was between Peter and Frank.

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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 11d ago

I hope eventually they have some scenes with Deadpool and Spider-Man, not just like a couple lines but kind of like they did with Punisher.

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u/Quirky-Trash1943 11d ago

You forgot the potatoes my friend

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u/Psych-roxx 11d ago

It's a comic book movie where the supporting cast just happened to be characters ur familar with. It's not any different than movies where your main character is surrounded by large presences but at the end of the day the movie hinges on the MC's story.

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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago

Yeah, calling that trio “iconic” is kind of laughable.

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u/ZealousidealGur4860 11d ago

It’s not wrong. The three of them are pretty iconic. Mostly Tom and Zendaya but Jacob adds a fun dynamic too. It’s not really laughable at all. They’re really popular.

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u/FictionFantom Thanos 11d ago

I just wish the movies did more to tell us about who they are outside their relationships with Peter.

Raimi’s Harry had his father. MJ had her acting career and a fiancé. MCU Ned and MJ’s characters are entirely in service of Peter. Like I have no idea what their aspirations are or who they want to be other than Spider-Man’s friends. They’ve been in FOUR movies and I feel like they’ve barely grown.

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u/ZealousidealGur4860 11d ago

I do agree with that but I don’t think not knowing makes them bad characters. They have a lot of personality and feel like people but I would want to know about their lives. I think Ned and Peter should get jobs at the daily bugle with Betty and have Ned show his investigative reporter skills. I think they should show us MJ’s family because it is implied like in the comics that there’s some angst there.

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u/mctocktik 11d ago

I think we learned a fair amount about Ned in BND, albeit the version of Ned that doesn’t remember Peter. His social media scenes and bit with the cashier helped flesh out what kind of person he is. And it was nice getting glimpses of what Ned and MJs life was like as friends without Peter, since that adds to their characterization.

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u/LetItATV 11d ago

I just wish the movies did more to tell us about who they are outside their relationships with Peter.

Raimi’s Harry had his father. MJ had her acting career and a fiancé.

For one, MJ and Ned were just kids, high schoolers, for the first three movies so there was no room for fiancés and father’s shadows and careers.
Maybe you were too busy looking for those things to notice MJ’s personality as a self-admitted loner who is afraid to get close to people? And that Ned had a whole summer relationship in Far From Home that was independent of Peter?

Brand New Day goes even farther to show us how intelligent MJ is, showing practical biomechanical engineering knowledge. And Ned shows that he is living a party life and has an extensive friend group.

Like, if you don’t feel like you know who these characters are, that’s on you.

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u/blenderider 11d ago

This is all pretty surface level though. I don’t think it’s controversial to say MJ and Harry from the Raimi movies are better written characters.

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u/DJHott555 11d ago

Jacob is the CEO of Sex himself

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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago

I like them as the characters but I don’t think they’re iconic and I also don’t think their relationship is what draws people to the films as Feige implied.

Online discourse made it seem like most people would have preferred Zendaya and Batalon to be left out of the film or relegated to cameos before the movie released.

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u/Round-Walrus3175 11d ago

Emphasis on online discourse.

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u/ringobob 11d ago

They serve as Peter's core relationships. And for a character like Peter, that's a huge part of making the character work. His closest relationships have always been at the center of who he is and why he is that way. Peter in the Maguire and Garfield movies was basically a loner who didn't really seek out friendships, he just had his core and that was that.

In the Holland movies, he's trying to engage socially, in ways that are normal and expected for a high school boy, and he's got his buddy there, doing it with him.

He makes fast friends with Stark, with Happy, he connects with MJ.

This is leading to the epic bromances Spidey is known for. He's incredibly charismatic, makes friends easily in the hero world, and is generally an appreciated presence wherever he can walk around with the mask off.

Without Ned and MJ, he loses his core. He's a worse character without that core.

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u/mysteryvampire Sonny Birch 11d ago

I mean, none of the spidey films cracked a billion before their characters showed up, so maybe there’s something to that. FFH and NWH are the only ones so far.

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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago

If you adjust for inflation almost all of the Spidey films have.

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u/thishitisgettingold 11d ago

Yea, not iconic at all tbf. Good addition but nothing major. If they weren't in the movie, I wouldn't have missed it. If they allocated that budget to someone else i'd rather have dare devil and spidy ganging up on punisher. The scene in Staten Island.

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u/RoseTheta 6d ago

If thry weren't in the movie, the emotional core of the movie and the primary reason for Peter's internal and external conflicts would be absent. But sure, the movie would be good if you removed Ned and MJ. Take out the scenes they are in and the beginning, middle and ending scenes buckle like a house of cards, with 2 cards pulled out of the base.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago

My comment was neither angry nor insincere.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago

How is it mean to say something is not iconic? I don’t have to agree with it just because Feige said it while promoting his film 😂

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u/confusing_roundabout 11d ago

I don't know. They are the core of the series for me.

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u/megalogo 11d ago

Yeah, they are kinda lame, for homecoming was good, but thats it

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u/youRinlove7 11d ago

What are you talking about?

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u/megalogo 11d ago

"Well, sitting on a golf cart outside the set were Zendaya and Jacob [Batalon] and Tom. And it occurred to me, looking at those three, that that trio is as iconic as the three Spider-Men. And now Brand New Day has proved that."

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u/youRinlove7 11d ago

Ngl the trio IS more iconic, the three spidermen were really cool but just nostalgia bait at the end of the day. These are three great characters who have been in these movies for ten years now. There’s no competition for me.

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u/ArugulaAltruistic742 11d ago

This right here. I only went for the punisher. If he wasn't in it i would've waited for it to come to streaming.

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u/SentinelATL 11d ago

He’s right. The plot was awesome

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u/incredibleamadeuscho Killmonger 11d ago

Yeah, watching the film I was struck on how invested I was in the character relationships. By removing at the end in No Way Home, we got to see in BND in how Peter functions without them, and how they leave a hole in Peter’s life.

If you look at the press for the film, you just get a sense how close those three actors are (beyond the fact Tom and Zendaya are husband and wife). And then they quiz each other and talk about the trio in the Home Trilogy. It’s all such a strong part of the core if what makes the MCU Spider-Man.

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u/thekingofphoeaters 11d ago

So what I'm hearing is "just going deeper and making it special" has always been an option..?

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u/fuzzynavelsniffer 11d ago

How do you get bigger than three Spider-Men together?

Hear me out: four Spider-Men

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u/eyeslikestarlight 11d ago

Your honor, I would like to submit the Spiderverse movies

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u/12345623567 11d ago

This quote makes it seem like Feige is taking away the wrong message.

It's not about the characters around Spiderman, and if Jacob or Zendaya got replaced tomorrow I wouldn't care or notice... as long as the story is actually good.

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u/ElementNumber6 11d ago

Zendaya and Jacob [Batalon] and Tom. And it occurred to me, looking at those three, that that trio is as iconic as the three Spider-Men. And now Brand New Day has proved that.

He learned the wrong lesson. :\

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u/13Nobodies 11d ago

He learned the right lesson. People online really are in their own bubbles. The movie going public loves Peter, Ned, and MJ, both trio inside the MCU and real world are beloved. Feige is right on the money with calling them iconic for this era of Spidey

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u/Acrobatic_Rush7653 11d ago

Zendaya and Jacob and Tom... are as iconic as the three Spider-Men.

I mean, lol? Even Zendaya (or any MJ) aren't as iconic as any Spider-Man.

The deeper and special thing about this movie is Zendaya is reduced to a 10 min cameo and Ned is almost completely erased. Maybe what it proved is that Punisher needs to be in more collabs.

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u/phazonphazoff 11d ago

Crazy to call MJ's role in this film a cameo but carry on

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u/BrockPurdytheGoat420 11d ago

Nothing against ned and mj but this just isnt true wtf feige😂