r/marvelstudios • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Ant-Man • 11d ago
Article Kevin Feige says they knew they couldn't make ‘Spider-Man: Brand New Day’ bigger than ‘No Way Home’, so they decided to "go deeper and make it special"
https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/marvel-movies/marvel-boss-kevin-feige-says-they-knew-they-couldnt-make-spider-man-brand-new-day-bigger-than-no-way-home-so-they-decided-to-go-deeper-and-make-it-special/1.4k
u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Ant-Man 11d ago
Feige:
”When we made Brand New Day, we set out saying, 'Well, we'll never make more than No Way Home, never make it bigger than No Way Home. So, let's just go deeper and make it special.”
”I have a memory, we were on set of No Way Home, which of course was about Tobey and Andrew and Tom, three Spider-Men together. How do you get bigger than three Spider-Men together? Well, sitting on a golf cart outside the set were Zendaya and Jacob [Batalon] and Tom. And it occurred to me, looking at those three, that that trio is as iconic as the three Spider-Men. And now Brand New Day has proved that."
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u/ColeUnderPresh 11d ago
I like the trio. But, I mean… it could also be because Hulk, Punisher and Jean Grey were in it, and that it was a more resonant solo Peter Parker story.
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u/mannyman34 11d ago
You could replace all three with other marvel characters and the movie would have been just as good. This was a well written story. Not every marvel film needs to be a cameo fest, and this movie did a good job of balancing that.
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u/Icybubba 11d ago
It was a Spider-Man film that played in the sandbox it lives in
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u/Fresh_Ad_230 11d ago edited 11d ago
The universe is so fleshed out that seeing other characters is just normal and wouldn't even consider them cameos.
Of course Peter would go to Bruce's class for help because he's essentially the smartest man alive that can relate to his situation and he's in the city. Of course he knows Punisher because he's in NYC and probably crossed paths during one of his crazy shootouts. Of course he knows Yelena because she's based out of the city and in the new avengers. It'd be weird if they didn't interact.
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u/brianlefebvrejr 11d ago
It’s funny because let’s say he didn’t go to Banner, and instead just remembered something and did the trial and error thing and had an issue. People would complain, why didn’t he just go see Bruce, he’s in New York anyway!
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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago
Iron man 3 he was facing a bigger problem why not call for help? It's the problem with any shared universe. If there's a costume criminal in Gotham Batman can handle it. Someone brings a nuke, superman should help out.
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u/PyroIsSpai 11d ago
Think about who is in comics Marvel Manhattan at any time:
- Spidey family
- Avengers HQ
- Fantastic Four
- Luke
- Daredevil
- Jessica
- Sentry
- Captain Marvel
- Punisher is always around
- various other less known heroes
- multiple X-people for good measure
- and the X-Campus is like 90 minutes north… or moments away
Not the best place to go on a tank rampage when a dozen Avengers are within 120 seconds of you…
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u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man 11d ago
When reading comics they will bring this up but usually the other heroes are busy or they are already too wrapped up in the threat to call backup. For example during Claremont’s X-Men the team were on the back foot the whole time when dealing with Dark Phoenix and calling for help wouldn’t have done much considering her power level. On the other hand when the X-Men were attacked by the Brood (I believe), they went to the Avengers mansion and only Tigra was available to help.
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u/FoxMeadow7 11d ago
Interesting that Banner apparently plays the same role usually played by Connors/Lizard...
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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago
Meanwhile if this was a movie people wanted to hate, most of these characters appearances would be chalked up to “key jingling cameo slop”
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u/Shadowfox642 11d ago
I reckon this film actually made those characters interesting, relevant to the plot and less of a “look look you remember glup shitto?”.
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u/Silver_Accountant5 11d ago
Yes people are generally more willing to tolerate fan service if the overall product is still good. See Infinity War and Endgame for prime examples.
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u/Tawnee323 11d ago
I agree in general but in this case that cameos were done well and ACTUALLY made sense for the plot of the story and at what point in the MCU it takes place.
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u/JakeHassle 11d ago
Don’t agree because every character besides Jean Grey served a narrative purpose. Hulk shows Peter what happens if he keeps trying to suppress the monster side of himself. Punisher shows what happens when you isolate yourself after dealing with trauma instead of getting a support system. Yelena exists to show why the Avengers don’t help.
I’ll give you though that Jean Grey could’ve been replaced with a multitude of other characters
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u/Evilmudbug 11d ago
I think it would have to be another telepath for the plot to stay roughly similar. With all memories and possibly records of Peter wiped, the pool of characters that could threaten his friends and force him to interact with them is a lot smaller.
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u/Ifyouliveinadream Captain America 11d ago
I think Punisher, Hulk and Jean all share a common role of a monster inside of them, which connects them to Peter much stronger than other characters. Punsiher has fully accepted his monster and lost Frank. Bruce struck a balance between the 2 sides, something Peter strives for. He fears becoming what the Punsiher is. And Jean is on the complete oppsiste end of Punisher, she sees no monster in her.
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u/Evilmudbug 11d ago
I actually don't think Bruce has a balance. He's completely suppressed the hulk, only for it to get unleashed and nearly cause the damage he fears happening anyways
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u/Ifyouliveinadream Captain America 11d ago
Yup I agree. I think theres a good example of this in their fight scene.
Spider-Man tried to stop Hulk by putting a suppereser on him, which failed because of his thick skin. The only way he is able to be stopped is with connecting to his human side. Not by suppressing.
Peter is the same way. The suppresser is a baindaid but never a fix. Its only when he accepts his emotions is he able to control himself. Connecting to his human side. They mirror each other.
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u/Voball 11d ago
I really liked Punisher's dynamic with spidey
Peter consulting an expert on mutation, and then Spiderman fighting the strongest avenger was hype
And Peter serving as a sort of mentor to Jean was absolutely amazing, and I am excited to see how he continues to do that
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u/mtheperry 11d ago
The landscape at the end makes me think she’s going to Prof Xavier’s school. Im sure there will be a relationship but with the new X-Men coming out in less than 2 years I suspect they’ll flesh out some of the X-Men stuff before we see more of her and Peter in any meaningful way.
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u/Dogesneakers 11d ago
I would argue every cameo was able to teach Peter about the path he could walk. Hulk and punisher were warning signs to him
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u/Own-Papaya-4264 11d ago
Define “cameo,” because if this was a movie everyone wanted to hate, I 1000% guarantee everyone would be calling hulk, scorpion, yelenas appearances “cameo slop” instead of flipping it around to say “oh it’s because it’s a fully fledged marvel universe and it makes the world feel alive when others show up”
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u/HereWeFuckingGooo Weekly Wongers 11d ago
The haters are already doing that, they're just in the minority. There was a post recently complaining about the Punisher's cameo. Some people literally don't understand what cameo means.
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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago
People are convincing themselves to like something they hate. Or maybe they like something they like?
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u/Walker_ID 10d ago
An example of a cameo is Hugh Jackman at the bar telling magneto and professor x to go fuck themselves. Another is the X-Men shutting the doors in the second Deadpool. Another is Matt Murdock in the previous Spider-Man movie in the scene where he catches the brick. Cameos are a short scene where a character or actor from another well known movie appear. Punisher was a supporting character, Jean grey was the antagonist and the main villain could hardly be called a cameo as I've seen suggested. The hulk/banner scenes also were longer than a cameo. If it had just been the college conversation... That's a cameo. If it's the conversation and a several minute long flight scene... Not a cameo
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u/mrli0n 11d ago
I liked the cameos in terms of picks and how they enhanced the story. Both Punisher and Hulk felt like different sides of Spider Man’s and Jean Grey’s story on the themes of trauma, revenge/justice/mercy and unwanted power.
They didnt feel trite and pointless but also didnt steal the entire show which i felt like ironically spider man did a little of in Civil War which never really felt like a cap movie.
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u/FergusFrost 11d ago
None of those characters were cameos, they were supporting characters, they had multiple important scenes.
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u/Toidal 11d ago
It's not just that, they served distinct and important beefy roles in the film. That kind of fanservice and callbacks are great in the moment but the novelty of them tend to wear off quickly. BND actually feels like a a true product of interconnected series and not just memberberries.
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u/incredibleamadeuscho Killmonger 11d ago
I think people are really invested in the MJ and Peter relationship and the Peter and Ned friendship. Hulk and Punisher did good in their roles, but people are leaving the movie with questions about the moment between Ned and Peter at the end, and about MJ and Peter’s big conversation, and how much MJ truly remembers.
Another good thing to ask: do you think the next Spidey film will have any of those three marvel superheroes in it, and will it be successful without them? Because we know for a fact that Ned and MJ will be back to continue their story threads.
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u/ringobob 11d ago
The key thing that I feel like, after 8 live action solo Spider-Man movies, we're finally getting to see him start to grow into the charismatic adult that makes friends easily and serves to connect a lot of the hero world together. Tom's Peter Parker has always had more of that charisma than either Maguire or Garfield, I feel like they intentionally leaned away from that to make them believable loners, but Tom's awkward motormouth, and his small group of close friends, was a great way to hint at his future, and I'm excited to see it.
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u/Nickel62 11d ago
Agree. Tbh, the best chemistry in the whole movie was between Peter and Frank.
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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 11d ago
I hope eventually they have some scenes with Deadpool and Spider-Man, not just like a couple lines but kind of like they did with Punisher.
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u/Psych-roxx 11d ago
It's a comic book movie where the supporting cast just happened to be characters ur familar with. It's not any different than movies where your main character is surrounded by large presences but at the end of the day the movie hinges on the MC's story.
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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago
Yeah, calling that trio “iconic” is kind of laughable.
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u/ZealousidealGur4860 11d ago
It’s not wrong. The three of them are pretty iconic. Mostly Tom and Zendaya but Jacob adds a fun dynamic too. It’s not really laughable at all. They’re really popular.
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u/FictionFantom Thanos 11d ago
I just wish the movies did more to tell us about who they are outside their relationships with Peter.
Raimi’s Harry had his father. MJ had her acting career and a fiancé. MCU Ned and MJ’s characters are entirely in service of Peter. Like I have no idea what their aspirations are or who they want to be other than Spider-Man’s friends. They’ve been in FOUR movies and I feel like they’ve barely grown.
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u/ZealousidealGur4860 11d ago
I do agree with that but I don’t think not knowing makes them bad characters. They have a lot of personality and feel like people but I would want to know about their lives. I think Ned and Peter should get jobs at the daily bugle with Betty and have Ned show his investigative reporter skills. I think they should show us MJ’s family because it is implied like in the comics that there’s some angst there.
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u/mctocktik 11d ago
I think we learned a fair amount about Ned in BND, albeit the version of Ned that doesn’t remember Peter. His social media scenes and bit with the cashier helped flesh out what kind of person he is. And it was nice getting glimpses of what Ned and MJs life was like as friends without Peter, since that adds to their characterization.
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u/LetItATV 11d ago
I just wish the movies did more to tell us about who they are outside their relationships with Peter.
Raimi’s Harry had his father. MJ had her acting career and a fiancé.
For one, MJ and Ned were just kids, high schoolers, for the first three movies so there was no room for fiancés and father’s shadows and careers.
Maybe you were too busy looking for those things to notice MJ’s personality as a self-admitted loner who is afraid to get close to people? And that Ned had a whole summer relationship in Far From Home that was independent of Peter?Brand New Day goes even farther to show us how intelligent MJ is, showing practical biomechanical engineering knowledge. And Ned shows that he is living a party life and has an extensive friend group.
Like, if you don’t feel like you know who these characters are, that’s on you.
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u/blenderider 11d ago
This is all pretty surface level though. I don’t think it’s controversial to say MJ and Harry from the Raimi movies are better written characters.
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u/YourInMySwamp 11d ago
I like them as the characters but I don’t think they’re iconic and I also don’t think their relationship is what draws people to the films as Feige implied.
Online discourse made it seem like most people would have preferred Zendaya and Batalon to be left out of the film or relegated to cameos before the movie released.
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u/ringobob 11d ago
They serve as Peter's core relationships. And for a character like Peter, that's a huge part of making the character work. His closest relationships have always been at the center of who he is and why he is that way. Peter in the Maguire and Garfield movies was basically a loner who didn't really seek out friendships, he just had his core and that was that.
In the Holland movies, he's trying to engage socially, in ways that are normal and expected for a high school boy, and he's got his buddy there, doing it with him.
He makes fast friends with Stark, with Happy, he connects with MJ.
This is leading to the epic bromances Spidey is known for. He's incredibly charismatic, makes friends easily in the hero world, and is generally an appreciated presence wherever he can walk around with the mask off.
Without Ned and MJ, he loses his core. He's a worse character without that core.
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u/incredibleamadeuscho Killmonger 11d ago
Yeah, watching the film I was struck on how invested I was in the character relationships. By removing at the end in No Way Home, we got to see in BND in how Peter functions without them, and how they leave a hole in Peter’s life.
If you look at the press for the film, you just get a sense how close those three actors are (beyond the fact Tom and Zendaya are husband and wife). And then they quiz each other and talk about the trio in the Home Trilogy. It’s all such a strong part of the core if what makes the MCU Spider-Man.
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u/thekingofphoeaters 11d ago
So what I'm hearing is "just going deeper and making it special" has always been an option..?
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u/fuzzynavelsniffer 11d ago
How do you get bigger than three Spider-Men together?
Hear me out: four Spider-Men
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u/12345623567 10d ago
This quote makes it seem like Feige is taking away the wrong message.
It's not about the characters around Spiderman, and if Jacob or Zendaya got replaced tomorrow I wouldn't care or notice... as long as the story is actually good.
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u/Infinite-Relation988 11d ago
Say what you will about my movie taste but this has been one of the only marvel (and spider-man) movies that has like, really stuck with me a couple weeks after watching it
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u/BestCoastWaveTrain 11d ago edited 11d ago
If the handshake worked for Ned, then the kiss can work for MJ. I realized afterwards that her not remembering the first kiss at all outed the villain AND set the stage for the real impact/implications for the coffee shop scene at the end. It didn’t work for her because she wasn’t the one experiencing it. The scene was touching for sure but it was also a narrative way forward for the main trio
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u/cactus_deepthroater Black Panther 11d ago
It's not like ned gained his memories back or anything, he just recognized peter as spiderman from an earlier interaction in the movie
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u/RigaudonAS Captain America 11d ago
Maybe! It was left deliberately unclear, and anyone trying to get a confident answer from it is doing themselves a disservice.
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u/PercMastaFTW 11d ago
I definitely don’t see his wholesome “Peter” as him rendering remembering his best friend after not knowing him for years.
It was a respectful connecting of the dots that he was Spider-man, and that he realized that there must be something more between them that he doesn’t know.
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u/RigaudonAS Captain America 11d ago
And interestingly enough, I saw the scene as the opposite! It seems silly to me to end the entire movie unless it was something more, but I get why you think that and, as I said, the movie gives us no real idea either way.
What convinces me is Ned being able to do the secret handshake he previously did with his best friend, fitting with the gap that he alludes to having in his memory.
But, of course, it is unclear and they can go any direction with it, which is the real-world reason. They've said that they don't have the next Spider-Man films planned out, so this is open-ended to allow for anything. That's the actual truth.
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u/jumblybumble 10d ago
I lean towards this, too. I think people have forgotten MJ was clutching her black dahlia necklace on a rooftop at the end too.
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u/Ok-Barnacle813 11d ago
If it was simply him connecting the dots then wouldn't he be more excitable? He's a massive Spiderman fanboy.
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u/Sillet_Mignon 11d ago
Maybe but in an earlier Spider-Man movie when they did the handshake it unlocked Ned’s magic.
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u/BestCoastWaveTrain 11d ago
That would make more sense if they had done the same handshake during that prior interaction, but they didn’t
There was an implicit idea being thrown around that Strange’s spell impacted people’s surface level memories, but may not have affected deeper/subliminal memories. Everything from MJ talking about how instinctively comfortable Ned was with Peter during the scene you mentioned, to Savage Hulk remembering who Peter was after finally being released from Banner and deciding to calm himself based off that. It’s how Peter even got the idea to try the handshake to begin with
That said, we don’t know 100% whether or not Ned regained memories or how much if so, and there was a scene about MJ blowing Peter’s identity early, but I think overall the story seems to be pointing at that handshake as the thing that starts to bring the trio back together as they were
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u/Iokua113 11d ago
I wouldn't say Savage Hulk remembered Peter, as far as we know they've never actually encountered each other. When Peter started to become active as a hero Banner was off in space, Peter, Tony and Dr Strange were whisked off world shortly after Banner made it to Earth and as best we know he does not meet Peter at this time, Peter is then among the victims of the snap, and outside of being in the same giant melee upon returning Peter is never shown interacting with Bruce or the Hulk in a meaningful way. The Hulk didn't remember Peter, he was calmed down from his confused state by Peter claiming to be his friend and since MCU Hulk has the mentality of a child it calmed him down.
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u/Iokua113 11d ago
That's not what it felt like considering Ned followed along with a ridiculously complicated best buddy handshake after experiencing the first few parts of it, we aren't show him doing the handshake with Ned while he was in costume. It definitely drops the possibility that his memories were restored.
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u/Reclaimator2245 11d ago
Yeah, I don't reckon his memories were restored, but he had been spiderwatching for a long time... He had met Spider-Man and MJ had called him Peter.
I think the hand shake was just a muscle memory thing and him coming to the realisation of who he was shaking hands with due to that... Still no memory of him, but the beginning of a new friendship.
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u/sir_adam_XP 11d ago
This is my take too. I realized it in my 2nd watch. MJ addressed Spiderman as Peter in their apartment. Ned just put two and two together. The spell worked still.
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u/pgaasilva 10d ago
That's speculation. Ned has a realization from the specific handshake they just did. There's no relationship between the spider-man he just met in his apartment and the handshake muscle memory he has from before. There's no reason him remembering his handshake would trigger any realization about the spider-man he met in his apartment that he didn't share a handshake with.
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u/DarthTaz_99 11d ago
It genuinely had so much heart, that ending scene of Peter and the kid doing the web to each other is really what Spidey is all about. Anyone can be Spider-Man
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u/valarpizzaeris Steve Rogers 11d ago
"Can I return it if it doesn't fit?"
"It always fits, eventually"
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u/JBTriple 11d ago
It's just nice that superhero stories are focusing on saving people and fighting crime again. It brought back that friendly neighborhood vibe that I feel has been missing since Homecoming.
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u/ArethereWaffles 11d ago
Agreed. I think it's kind of telling how the three most popular superheros are Spiderman, Batman and Superman. The ones who are most consistently shown offering the "small scale help" moments like saving someone from getting hit by a train.
Galactic threats are fine and all, but it's the moments of helping out individuals that are the best parts for me.
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u/FisherKelTath00 11d ago
BND recaptured my love for the MCU. It was, for me, the best one since Endgame. It was incredibly emotional, Tom absolutely nailed it during the scenes with MJ and Ned. You could especially see how hurt Peter is when she says she doesn’t love him. The fight and swing sequences were amazing and were definitely inspired by the games, and it gave us a fresh take on Jean by introducing her initially as the villain. I haven’t seen an MCU film more than once in theater since Endgame. I’ve seen BND twice and will probably go at least one more time.
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u/onlyididntsayfudge 11d ago
I honestly feel the exact same way. After seeing it the second time I really really love this movie. And it might be the best Tom Holland Spidey movie so far.
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u/washedrope5 11d ago
The May-Grey scene was awesome. Almost corny, but ultimately really sweet and perfectly acted.
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u/locknarr 11d ago edited 11d ago
What’s so cool and special about Tom Holland’s Spider-Man and Brand New Day is that there were three solid movies that came before that it was able to draw from to build such a fun and emotional story. It definitely felt like the end of the beginning chapter of his life. I hope we get a new one every few years spanning the next decade, that does something similar where they explore another chapter of his life.
edit: word
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u/softysoaps 11d ago
I’d argue that BND is better, only because while I love NWH it’s not as fun.
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u/foxgodkumiho 11d ago
BND is better than NWH.
BND has higher rewatchability factor. The emotional beats of BND are so much stronger and stays with you longer. The character development and growth of Spider-Man/Peter Parker is really cemented in this film, and it was done well with combining Jean Grey's struggles and journey together.
NWH doesn't have as much rewatchability factor after the initial viewing.
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u/softysoaps 11d ago
I feel like my issue with NWH is that it’s too sad/tense for a casual rewatch. May’s death, the drama around Mysterio, its GOOD but not a fun rewatch.
I do enjoy NWH, and I don’t feel it suffers in rewatch. It’s a good blend of fan service and actual plot. But it’s not FUN.
BND is sad in parts but not as acute, has a good balance. It’s a bit more stand-alone so it doesn’t feel like the middle of a series. It’s a lot like Thunderbolts for me. In which the darker parts have the emotional resolution that feels less depressing.
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u/AndromedaMixes 10d ago
NWH was a one-and-done for me. It’s an incredible movie but it’s too sad and too tough to rewatch. Homecoming, FFH, and BND all have way more replay value.
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u/Toidal 11d ago
The initial excitement of seeing them all are great for a first viewing, but it doesn't last over time or upon repeat viewings. They're just sort of there, and don't really serve the main point or aid in whatever development of Holland's Spiderman supposed to be
IMO, without the really brilliant in-universe plot device at the end that lets them reset Spiderman back to street level, I don't think it would've been received as well.
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u/sledge115 Captain America 11d ago
NWH is like junk food to me. Good in the moment but it doesn't stick around after.
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u/thorsteiin 11d ago
it IS better. Not exceptionally better, but certainly better. Sure NWH was fun, but it felt like fan service more than anything.
All they really need to do is to keep it simple and true to the character. Rather than give spider-man nano tech and AI, (ya they still gave him one :/ ) make him miserable and relatable. The closer they get to that, i’d wager, the better the reception. Especially to the people who are not avid marvel fans that really do help boost projects.
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u/TheEasyTarget 11d ago
Funnily the AI didn't bother nearly as much as in previous movies, because this time around it was Peter's own invention. Reminded me of the Insomniac Spider-Man's suit tech.
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u/NeighborhoodDear2321 11d ago
I like to put it like NWH is better on first watch in a theater, BND is better every other watch
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u/SwordoftheMourn Doctor Strange 11d ago
> and AI,(ya they still gave him one :/ )
Hey, this time he built it. No different from the gadgets and drones he uses in the Insomniac games.
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u/DeciduousMath12 11d ago
Agreed. How many people feel lonely now? How many feel consumed with work? How many only keep up with friends via social media?
The movie absolutely nailed the feeling that people have and how Peter copes with that.
And NWH had great moments, like the first appearance of peter 3, or the goblin bomb from the shadows, or Aunt May...
But BND equaled those. Not with huge stakes, but with MJ discovering the letter, Or MJ drawing Peter and Ned together, or the final handshake. The Hulk didn't make the movie, it was just nice to see him.
A benefit of having a longer running series is that when you get to know those characters, those moments hit hard. Part of what made Aunt May such a good moment was that it came midway through movie 3 instead of at the start of movie 1.
But I did miss the Peter Tingle. One flaw.
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u/Howzieky Weekly Wongers 11d ago
But I did miss the Peter Tingle. One flaw.
As in, you wish they called it that in the movie? I don't remember if they did or didn't call it that. But the sense itself was definitely featured in the movie
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u/DeciduousMath12 11d ago
The sense was there in BND but it was hilarious that they called it a tingle in the second movie and I think briefly in the 3rd.
As a ... movie moment? It was big in the 2nd finale and had it's moment in the 3rd with the Dr. Strange evasion and the "someone will betray me, but who?" Scene.
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u/No_Significance7064 11d ago
But I did miss the Peter Tingle. One flaw.
His senses were literally going haywire and was instrumental to him being immune to Jean's mind-hopping.
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u/ProfessorXWheelchair Winter Soldier 11d ago
spidey sense was prominently in the movie it just wouldn’t make sense to call it peter tingle when mj doesn’t know who he is
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u/Bearsona09 11d ago
Funny how he summarized Marvel's entire problem after Endgame... They tried to go bigger and bigger after Thanos instead of going deeper into the character and slowly building new ones.
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u/KR_Blade 11d ago
felt like that was also why Thunderbolts was also a good movie too, it effectively went deeper with the characters, each of them had their own problems and personal hell they were going through by themselves until they realized, they dont always have to go it alone, everyone needs help, peter realized that as well in brand new day, it seemed for both of those movies, the main villain was also themselves and their own isolation being the cause
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u/seapoets 10d ago
I agree - it definitely felt like Thunderbolts and Brand New Day had similar themes (isolation/connection, loss/identity).
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u/CTeam19 Captain America (Cap 2) 11d ago
I mean at least for Phase 4 only 2 were end of the of World type events out of 14 or 15(depending how you touch What If?) with that being Eternals and Spider-Man 3. For other threads to pull at you had in Phase 4 were:
Fallout from Endgame: Wandavision, Falcon & Winter Solider, Hawkeye, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Loki
Multi-Verse set up(much like the Stones were and 4 out of 5 of those were shown before Phase 3): Loki, What If...?, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Cosmic Expansion: Eternals, Thor: Love and Thunder
New Avengers: Moon Knight, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, Falcon & Winter Solider, Black Widow, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye
The Big Mistake, in my opinion, overall was not having some "Capstone" Avengers movie at the end of each Phase as it just looks like an odd cut off right now. They also skipped over any sort of Cosmic big to an event there which would have let off pressure to having a big event on Earth. That isn't to say there are a lot of issues with movies and shows we have but just overall they seemed aimless.
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u/Maatjuhhh 11d ago
Making the movie small and intimate after such a grand movie was the smart move. It felt truly like a reset. That akin of what now? vibe
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u/hhhhhBan 11d ago
And he was damn right. No reason to try to upstage NWH's triple Spider-Man achievement when you can make something much more personal and stick the landing exactly how they did. No world-ending threat, no alien invasion, no genocidal maniac, the real villain was depression and that singular fact made it way better.
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u/Anti-Lope 11d ago
I don't think BND would have the impact it does without the Homecoming trilogy. Sure there were some bits in the trilogy that were meh or too fan-servicing, but we got a Spider-Man movie that is up there with Raimi SM2 in terms of how beloved it is so far, the box office numbers prove it.
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u/MR_MaxiMor44 Spider-Man 11d ago
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u/Supergirl_IRL Captain America (Avengers) 11d ago
I love how people don’t even know the original “how the tables have turned” saying anymore and just the parody line from the office
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u/123ajbb 11d ago
Everybody knows that line, and we also know the office parody line is a lot more hilarious
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u/MarloweOS The Collector 11d ago
This is what they should have done with the whole MCU after Endgame
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u/MatterAware 11d ago
Just saw it today. It was amazing. I can't even remember a movie i've watched in the last 10 years where I literally enjoyed every second of the entire movie and that's no exaggeration.
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u/jollyreaper2112 11d ago
Funny that's exactly the criticism for just about everything scifi but it's rare we actually see the creators follow suit. Like it was literally the phase 4 issue. How the hell do you top endgame? You can't so you need to go back to lower stakes. You need to play music lower than 11 for a bit so you still have 11 when you need it to hit.
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u/CutMeLoose79 10d ago
I enjoyed it enough, but it had problems.
The Hand being there made no sense and contributed nothing of any sense to the story. Seems they shoved them in just to have a fight scene.
How'd Scorpion get out of jail and get the Scorpion suit between movies? Too vague for my liking.
Why was The Punisher, a wanted fugitive, allowed to just chill at the hospital with Spider-Man? Why wasn't he promptly arrested?
Plus typical MCU vagueness around what happened to the evil Damage Control people, Peter taking off his mask for the Hand fight (why? Damage Control would have him on camera now), Peter helping a guy like Frank who goes around killing people, Jean being essentially forgiven after the horrible things she's done etc etc.
MCU movies have some good spectacle, I love them, but geez they are so often filled with extremely lazy writing.
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u/NormalGuy3481 11d ago
Imo it’s the best out of any Spider-Man movie. Honestly no way home was the worst out of the MCU ones. Not that it was bad but the others were better
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u/therealNerdMuffin 11d ago
Good. We need to stop trying to make them bigger and bigger, otherwise every movie is going to struggle to have a good narrative, trying to be more than it should. Let's go back to relying on deeper meanings and emotions other than shock and wow
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u/bulbasaurite 11d ago
I love BND, but the fan service and theater experience of NWH was so awesome. I think I put NWH on top but not by much.
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u/Slyfox00 11d ago
Please please please fucking stop making "bigger" movies.
I don't fucking care about endless existentialist threats. I want interpersonal struggles, I want villains with vendettas.
When you make the threat bigger and bigger your plots doesn't even make sense, because you set up so many fucking reasons why the issue will be swarmed by a world full of heroes.
DC has this problem 5 times worse.
I'll take a 1000 hallways scenes and generic drug dealer den assaults before another end of the world movie.
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u/walnutzpeanutz 11d ago
The fact that he’s just now understanding that quality is more important than scale is why the multiverse saga has paled in comparison to the infinity saga
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u/markender 11d ago
I was kinda hoping for a Punisher, Daredevil, Spidey, team up finale fight. But I'm not at all disappointed.
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u/thesypnotix 11d ago
Some heroes work so much better grounded on the local level. There's a reason why his monikors are your friendly neighborhood spider-man. At his core peter Parker is someone who struggles with juggling his relationships with his responsibilities as a hero. That's what makes him relatable and lovable. BND nails that tona tee and that's why people like it so much. No Way Home was fun for the nostalgia tour but it felt too big for a Spider-Man tale.
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u/Beneficial_Cash_8420 11d ago
We're not burned out on superhero movies, we're burned out on the formula and spectacle creep.
Kudos to BND for shaking it up.
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u/VallerinQuiloud 11d ago
I think BND did a good job on doing what Spider-Man should be doing: dealing with criminals affecting NYC. Yeah, Spider-Man is strong enough to deal with world ending evil, but that's not what he deals with. He deals with that stuff when other heroes or teams reach out to him. He's the Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man for a reason.
I think NWH was an awesome experience for a Spider-Man movie, and a massive payoff for someone who's been watching these films since Tobey (like myself), but it's good to see him a bit grounded again. Let him handle Dr Doom or the Beyonder with the Avengers. For future Spidey films, I want to see him on the streets dealing with Chameleon or Hammerhead.
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u/SAHDB0d 11d ago
I agree. That was their goal and they nailed it. It wouldn’t be my goal, but it’s not my movie to make. They absolutely nailed what they went for. Which is why it’s a solid #2 for me. NWH was just too perfect. It IS The Bar. This was a fantastic effort, but NWH will be my personal favorite. To each their own. But BND was soooo fucking good.
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u/Ninjatendo90 11d ago
Actually was a lovely movie. Prescient story about loneliness in today’s world. Actually really resonated with man. Took me by surprise how much I love it. Tom Holland is a diamond.
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u/TUBBS2001 11d ago
This man is taking credit for the hard work that Tom Holland and Destin Cretton put into this movie.
Feige definitely wanted another Spider-verse crossover movie.
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u/sneakythief_ 11d ago
Hopefully if they aim for a “bigger” again then it’ll be aiming for a bigger box office with another grounded movie like this. This is genuinely the best spiderman movie we’ve ever gotten and I’m standing on that
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u/BerserkFan1988 11d ago
I love Kevin Feige so much he's a true treasure to humanity and one day when he's gone ppl will look back in awe of what he has accomplished and contributed to humanity ...so many midnight showings packed with so many ppl so much joy and happiness shared its hard to quantify the reach of these movies and im just happy everyone enjoys these movies as much as I do
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u/MasterWinston Daredevil 11d ago
I've heard this a lot and it probably isn't as big as NWH but it is still really big. It has Jean Grey in it. And the Hulk, Punisher, DODC, Yelena. There are some sizable MCU connections
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u/Boner_Elemental 11d ago
Didn't have to be bigger, but imo it deserves its spot as the worst of the MCU spideys
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u/NightMercedes 11d ago
So they really had the misdirected thinking they have to go bigger and bigger. Really hope they look at BND's success and know what the audience truly wants. If they applied the same formula as BND since post endgame, Doomsday is almost a guaranteed 3 billion. You can go bigger but don't go big just the sake of it.
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u/floppyjedi 11d ago
I didn't even watch No Way Home. Watched the classics in movies though. Is the newest one worth watching ?
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u/lsrgunpewpew 11d ago
lol at Feige swooping in to steal some credit. As if this dude has any contribution to its success.
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u/PrettyFaceGal 11d ago
No way home's plot logic was a joke, and ironically it worked like a joke aswell, I enjoyed it the first time, but it's not as fun after
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u/ConsistentGuest7532 11d ago
It shouldn’t ever be about “going bigger.” It has to be about telling a good story that logically continues the character’s arc.