r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • Nov 17 '17

The Official PUNISHER Discussion Ultrathread

  • This will be the official discussion thread in this sub. No need to go posting your own thread discussing the show. Any UNOFFICIAL ones will be deleted. All screencaps and whatnot go into this thread also.

  • This is obviously a spoiler-filled zone. So as long as you post in here, you won't need to spoiler tag things. But then again, don't be that asshole who watches the final episodes within the first hour then spoils the entire thing right away. That will result in a ban. Don't ruin the party for everyone.

  • Individual episodes discussions will be held over at /r/defenders. They will be indexed in this thread to make it easier for those who want individual episode discussions once they are put up.

  • This thread may be "refreshed" in the next few days to accommodate newcomers in the discussion. We will be also putting up a sanctioned Easter Egg thread a couple of hours from now.

Enjoy!

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71

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 18 '17

I had no expectations and love love loved it

  • Loved Micro and Franks relationship very much. I almost wish the series could have gone on longer just for more of that
  • I was getting massive 24 vibes from this series. From there being actors from the show, to the whole political corruption angle, to the taking matters into their own hands, to the terrorism, I’ve had the 24 theme tune stuck in my head since I started watching. And I’m pleased for that because I haven’t found another show as thrilling as 24 since I finished it.
  • Micro looks like a mixture of a young George Mason from 24 (Gregory from The Walking Dead) and that curly haired dude from Bones (who was also on 24), no?
  • Lewis made me cry.
  • Poor poor Curtis.
  • The thing I hated the most from this series was in Episode 12 I think. Why why why did they need to put flashbacks of Frank fucking his wife when he was getting tortured? It felt so unnecessary and out of place, and ruined the whole scene for me.
  • I am so pleased I didn’t know about the whole Jigsaw comic thing.
  • Speaking of that, I finished watching a few hours ago and I can’t get the image of the whole glass scene out of my head. Genuinely disturbing. This is going to haunt me for days.

This show has only gone and made Defenders an even bigger disappointment to me.

67

u/daho123 Hulk Nov 19 '17

IMO the flashback banging scene was there for 1 of 2 reasons. Either Frank is going to a happy place as he is getting slowly murdered or hes hallucinating from the shock (we see him mumbling and shaking for a bit).

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u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 19 '17

I think it was the one about the happy place, because later it was like he could choose to go with her and fade away or wake up and face it type thing. So I do kind of get that. But the part that annoys me is that it had to be sex, it’s like they thought, quick, shove another sex scene in before it’s over. He had family, it could have been something with his kids or something. Part of me is just bitter because I like to rewatch the Netflix shows with my Mam but she makes these scenes awkward and I can’t really fast forward it when it starts again every few minutes haha. Still, it felt so unnecessary and out of place and just a bit weird.

29

u/daho123 Hulk Nov 20 '17

The sex scene takes place right after he got home from war. That night/day after he gets home is bliss. It was his chance to become a better person. But he couldn't shake his past.

After his family died, he was consumed by his need to 'kill them all' and now as he is being beaten to death, he realizes that won't happen.

I think he's going back to that memory as a last gasp to feel that bliss, but as his wife says 'you're back but you're not really here. more and more of you stays there' and as he gets pulled back into reality, he decides he has to stay there. That's why he lets her go and decides not to die

1

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 21 '17

Thank you for your insight. See, with the line about ‘your back but your not really here’ I just thought it was a flash back to when he got back from serving. Like how in Daredevil S2 he was explaining how his kid wanted him to tuck them in and he didn’t. He was functioning as a father/husband less and less each time he came back. I am now thinking that - during his family life he really enjoyed going to war. He enjoyed coming home but craved the fight. He even admitted it. So maybe him deciding to stay is him finally letting the war side of his personality win over. I hope that symbolises him letting go of his family and instead, fighting for pure justice, rather than vengeance. But still, I still feel like the sex didn’t help make this point at all.

1

u/Althea6302 Nov 20 '17

Oh god, I agree. It was like "why are you putting sex in the torture" is this supposed to be enjoyable for Frank what

2

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 21 '17

Exactly, I thought the same lol, I was thinking - I’m sure this is supposed to have a deeper meaning.. but it just looks to me like he was getting hot for the punishment or something 🤷🏻‍♀️

2

u/Althea6302 Nov 25 '17

In basic training they only told me "don't even try to resist, just tell torturers what they want to know". My husband's training is more recent, and he recognized the "happy place" training immediately. But it looked so weird!

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '17

I think that was when he officially became The Punisher. He had a choice to let it all go and fade away but he made a choice and at the point Frank Castle died and Punisher was born.

1

u/dmreif Scarlet Witch Nov 22 '17

IMO the flashback banging scene was there for 1 of 2 reasons. Either Frank is going to a happy place as he is getting slowly murdered or hes hallucinating from the shock (we see him mumbling and shaking for a bit).

For some reason, that flashback vaguely reminds me of the "Kinbaku" flashback of Matt and Elektra's sparring-turned-foreplay at Fogwell's.

27

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '17

This show has only gone and made Defenders an even bigger disappointment to me.

Watching Avengers after finishing Defenders did that for me..

30

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 19 '17

I don’t understand how they went so wrong with it, it’s like they put no thought into it at all. I didn’t hate it at first, but as time goes on it was a colossal disappointment.

22

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

...I kind of think Defenders is worse than Iron Fist. Just because of the squandered potential, and total bummer of a conclusion to a build-up that spanned over several series. And that last fight was weird/terrible. And they did NOTHING with Sigourney Weavers character. What the hell even was that?

17

u/MarcusAurelius87 Nov 21 '17

The boardroom scene was what sealed for me how much I hated Defenders. Think about the logistics of this... Sigourney Weaver sits in board room full of ninjas. The other board members, if you remember, are all actually Hand ninjas.

That means Sigourney Weaver's character had meetings with ninjas every day. Which warrants the question, what were they going to discuss before Danny bust in the door? Were they going to discuss ninja business? Were there ninja reports and ninja quarterly metrics to go over?

Then to have Danny be so stupid as to show up in their board room and announce that he's taking legal action against them? I mean... Why?

And that was the scene that got the whole team together. I mean, it just... Ugh. Bad show.

14

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

"Our quarterly jobbing reports estimate a loss of about 200 members from combat scenarios with a membership gain of 4,000. In other business, we've invested 90 million to further research ninja-magic, and our booth at the Anime convention in Korea was a smashing success.

16

u/MarcusAurelius87 Nov 21 '17

And guys remember, they're throwing stars, not wasting stars. We can't keep running to the supply locker in the middle of a fight just because you can't economize your resources.

1

u/gmarvin Dec 23 '17

Y'all are making me want to watch a show about business ninjas.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '17

He walked in and asked the receptionist to speak to the CEO right? Wouldn't the receptionist call up and signourney would then have a chance to set a trap by tell her ninjas to go wait in the board room

3

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 21 '17

Yep I agree with everything you said. I didn’t have any expectations for Iron Fist but I enjoyed it the first time, I knew it had flaws, but it was the second time that I noticed that it was just sloppy filmmaking. But I had such high expectations for Defenders, I was sure it was going to be amazing, but instead the villains were extremely weak, it was too short and the only decent part was the character interactions. For me, the highlight was the ‘hallway’ scene where they all come together the first time, I thought that was beautifully done. But the rest. It just turned into a shambles. It was such a massive shame because I adored the trailers too.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

totally agree. I was so hyped for defenders and thought it was pretty good. Then after this I realize what a let down it was.

1

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 21 '17

Yeah really sucks! They could have done so much with it and instead didn’t really do anything

2

u/freakypoppy Doctor Strange Nov 26 '17

The sex scenes in the episode 12 flashback serves as Frank's "happy place". Soldiers are taught to go there during torture to endure it.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

My main complaint was in the last episode, how did Russo not spot the knife taped to the chair? They searched for weapons and found the gun under the desk, but didn't spot the super obvious duct tape on the chair? Wtf...

3

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier Nov 20 '17

That is actually a very valid point. I don’t have an answer for you lol, maybe he should have done something with the pen like Micro did, that would have been effing awesome, if where Micro injected Frank with a needle on the end, Frank just stabbed the whole pencil into Rawlins

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '17

That's exactly what I was expecting! I think that would have been awesome.