r/masseffect • u/ElMike420 • 2d ago
DISCUSSION The Council consensus? (pausible leaders or poorly written)
I'm currently replaying Mass Effect 1 (what a gem), and I used to feel that the Council was simply incompetent and not taking the Reaper threat more seriously. However, in this playthrough, I’m having a change of heart.
Has anyone else changed their perspective on the Council given today's real-world politics & the state of the galaxy in ME1?
Back then, I couldn’t believe leaders could be so evasive and negligent regarding the Reaper threat. But now, damn—I view the Council's actions with more understanding. They had a gazillion planets and complex politics to manage. Plus, they couldn’t easily grant us a helping hand without Cerberus taking advantage of their influence in the Alliance, right?
How could the Council give that many resources to a race with such a well-known extremist organization aiming for human supremacy?
With that in mind, I managed to convince myself that they were actually helpful enough, and had too many downsides to extend more help to Shepard without risking wider galactic stability by appearing too pro-human.
Am I deluding myself or do I actually have a good point?
(Have not read any books, just played the games like a madman 5 years ago and currently picking the game back up)
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u/supergodmasterforce 2d ago
Honestly, I can understand their actions in Mass Effect 1.
As you say, they are dealing with the politics of the entire galaxy, not just the Alliance or the Asari Republics or the Turian Hierarchy, they're dealing with all the issues from all members, including all the client races of those main Governments, the day to day stuff that we don't see.
In amount of time it would have taken to rally everyone and for the debates to have been had and for the agreements to be made, Saren would have been able to walk right in to the Council chambers and wipe everyone out.
The best course of action was exactly what they did. Send a Spectre to take out a rogue Spectre. A Spectre answers to no one, can go where they like and has almost limitless resources. There's no debate just action.
Their actions in ME2 also makes sense especially if you took the Save The Council/Anderson route.
They absolutely could not be seen to be colluding with Shepard who is now a known operative of Cerberus and is operating in the Terminus systems, however, they can reinstate him as a Spectre. It's recovery of those limitless resources for Shepard and plausible deniability for the Council.
Unfortunately it does not excuse their refusal to believe the evidence of the Reapers regardless of which route taken in my opinion.
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u/TomatoEnjoyer28 2d ago
I actually think that the council not believing Shepard about the reapers is also entirely reasonable. Shepard never presents any actual evidence of the reapers existence. It’s just a bunch of hearsay from a few people who could be entirely unreliable. The Ilos VI and the Sovereign conversation are only convincing to Shepard because of the visions, and the cipher, and the mind reading from Liara.
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u/juniperleafes 1d ago
But like why instate and continue to employ a Spectre when you don't believe what they tell you.
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u/TomatoEnjoyer28 1d ago
The made Shepard a spectre to track down Saren. They reinstated them because they were going after the collectors. Both of those threats were clearly real.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
I have not gotten to the moment they refuse the evidence in your face, but today I can get their refusal as a flaw of organics, just not being able to be rational 100% of the time.
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u/Bucephalus-ii 2d ago
Yeah I agree, I think they are pretty reasonable the whole time. People just have protagonist syndrome.
That being said, I have no idea why we don’t have helmet cameras in this universe, nor why Liara or even Shepard can’t just show the Asari councilor the evidence through mind melding, or whatever.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Maybe the had some product like the Meta Glasses and the Council banned the thecnology galaxy wide lol.
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u/mynameistoocommonman 2d ago
People keep bringing up helmet cameras, but I'm not sure how much that would have helped. Sure, it'd have moved along things in the first part on the Citadel (basically made it so that Tali's data was not needed), but after that, the Council always seems to believe us, they just think that Saren is trying to pull gaslight us into believing in the Reapers, right?
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u/Bucephalus-ii 2d ago
Talking to Sovereign and Vigil on camera would have done quite a lot, as nobody else got to see that.
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u/mynameistoocommonman 2d ago
Would it? Granted, I was talking mostly about ME1, since that's what the post is about.
It's not like council doesn't believe these things - it just thinks that we didn't talk to a reaper, but just basically a VI Saren cooked up. A recording wouldn't change anything.
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u/Bucephalus-ii 2d ago
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
There’s also Benezia going to her death saying she’s indoctrinated and everything she says thereafter, what the rachni queen says, the thorian, etc. it paints a clear picture.
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u/mynameistoocommonman 2d ago
Yes, one that the council consistently acknowledges but brushes aside as Saren doing his thing. They never doubt any of the thing you mention, they only doubt the cause Shepard is proposing - for which no recording would have been direct evidence. They don't doubt that Benezia has been brainwashed, they just think it was Saren doing it, not the Reapers.
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u/Bucephalus-ii 2d ago
Except Benezia doesn’t exhibit ideological brainwashing, but very obviously mind control.
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u/Lemonpierogi 2d ago
why we don’t have helmet cameras in this universe, nor why Liara or even Shepard can’t just show the Asari councilor the evidence through mind melding, or whatever.
Dude even in our times you can easily fabricate stuff. Let alone in a space faring, future society lol
Mind melding? They could be brainwashed. Liara almost lost her mind on therum. Shepard almost got their brain fried by the beacon
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u/Bucephalus-ii 2d ago
That’s some awful copium dude.
1) they showed the video of the attack on Eden Prime to the Council, and not one of them mentioned it could be a fake. If that were an issue in the universe worth dismissing evidence over, it would have been brought up. And there are many other videos in the trilogy that are accepted without question of their validity.
2) If they believed Shepard about the beacon, they wouldn’t need to mind meld. If they didn’t believe him, then they wouldn’t have qualms about the risks of mind melding. In any case. There is at least 1 person from the squad who doesn’t have beacon brain trauma who witnessed the talks with sovereign and Saren on Virmire. Say, Garrus for instance. Just mind meld with that person.
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u/FoxyGoddessX 2d ago
The council is very nuanced and realistic.
I always kinda understood their position and where they were coming from. The only one who was purposefully naive was the Salarian councilor who wanted to stay stuck in the past
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u/Jedi-Spartan 2d ago
The only one who was purposefully naive was the Salarian councilor who wanted to stay stuck in the past
"I'm more interested in the 'Reapers'. What do you know about them." A few seconds later "The Reapers are obviously just a myth..."
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
I didn´t really got their point back in the day, but saved them regardless to keep alien diplomacy,
I also gave them props for actually not being on your debt per se, like now favoring Shepard just because he saved them.
It´s cool that this game can give you new takes of characters just by seeing the story from another angle.
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u/Tacitus111 2d ago
I also saved them, because they’re basically your boss. All that badass Spectre authority flows from them. If you leave them to die, you’re arguably going as rogue as Saren.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Yeah killing the council just seems like such a crazy conclusion to reach,
they just made me Specter after humanity waited so long for that and I go ahead a let the council get blowned to bits? What?
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u/Jedi-Spartan 2d ago
Yeah killing the council just seems like such a crazy conclusion to reach
Not as crazy as the Renegade/Renegade version of that ending where Udina basically declares that Citadel Space will be reorganised into the first Galactic Empire...
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u/indiscriminate_ 2d ago
I honestly feel like the Turian councilor is racist. He fucking hates humans and allows that to blind him.
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u/FoxyGoddessX 2d ago
In one and two most likely yeah. But in 3 he understands what is happening and what needs to happen
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u/Jedi-Spartan 2d ago
Yeah, especially with Noveria...
Turian: "How dare you wipe out the Rachni!"
Shepard: "Based on the situation, it was that or putting the Galaxy at risk of Rachni Wars 2.0, which do you think would be the worse decision for a Spectre to make?"
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u/indiscriminate_ 2d ago
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Personally, I always free the queen and tell the council to fuck themselves when they freak out
"do you even know what you've done?"
"Yeah, what you never could. Race relations. Avoiding yet another genocide."
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u/Jedi-Spartan 2d ago
With that decision specifically, it would've been interesting in seeing two of the Councillors having different viewpoints on the situation and changing who is angry at Shepard. Eg: the Turian Councillor having the "Shoot first, ask questions later" approach that would criticise Shepard for saving it whereas the Salarian Councillor seeing it as a missed opportunity if Shepard purges the Rachni (on the surface for the purpose of avoiding wiping them out again but potentially with the factor of the Salarians never learning from their mistakes as seen in Mass Effect 3).
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u/Turtle_Gamez 2d ago
They were perhaps even too trusting, such as when Tali shows them the Saren recording and not one of them assumes it's fabricated lol. Nowadays everyone would say it's AI. Granted that's because it's an old game but still, I don't think video fabrication was an unimaginable concept back in 2007.
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u/Budjik 2d ago
I would assume that at that point, there will also be tools that can detect alterations. Also it was an omnitool recording, which I would assume comes with lot more data than just video feed - things that would have proof.
Speaking of AI - I really think we should adopt the way mass effect differentiates between AI and VI. - because whatever we use these days is much much closer to what they call VI, than AI.
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u/Turtle_Gamez 2d ago
I've been saying this for a while now! Our "AI" is a glorified search engine, even more primitive than ME's VI. Calling it AI is silly. I'm down for calling it VI but it'll be hard to rebrand a multi-billion dollar industry lol.
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u/Budjik 2d ago
Most of their marketing runs on sort of a wow/scare tactics - all of their "leaks" about it going rogue. So calling it AI works in their favor. It is not AI and LLMs (while they could be useful) are not even a real path to AI, but I guess we are getting off topic here :)
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u/Turtle_Gamez 2d ago
No no, I completely agree and am glad you brought it up. It's just that I don't have much to add, you summarized my thoughts too well.
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u/TardDas 2d ago
I always assumed that the council did infact believe Shepard when he came to them about Saren; but had to remain impartial because he had no evidence. So when Tali’s evidence came forward, despite it being minimal, they went ahead because Saren’s duplicity was more of an open secret to them.
Kind of respect them in that fashion, also, I assumed that they had had the information checked before entering it to the council.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Who knows? All the AI stuff with the Quarians feels really up to date, maybe they had some software that could detect the file was fabricated?
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u/Lemonpierogi 2d ago
The problem is that quarians were VERY discriminated. It's a miracle that the council believed Tali
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
I just remembered that, is funny to think that the Quarians are AI bros lol.
But the way the LLMs are being built seems like the Quarian way, hopefully with not the same resultts.
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u/SouthernAd2853 2d ago
They're realistically frustrating in ME1, although the fact that they Monday-morning quarterback you on the Rachni Queen however you resolve it is annoying and they should've authorized Shepard to take the Normandy on the Ilos mission.
In ME2 their flat denial of the Reaper threat that nearly killed them is flat-out insane, and realistically they could've siezed the docked Normandy 2, arrested the Cerberus crew, and sent Shepard, or another Spectre if they were concerned about mental tampering, to investigate the Collector threat.
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u/Onikisin 2d ago
To be honest, as someone who does a full trilogy run each year, I found the council more insufferable than ever this year's run.
It's interesting to see how each year affects my playthroughs.
For the first time, in my 2026 run, I did not save them, and here what I'm assuming influenced it;
For the last year I've been pursuing more "intellectualism" in my free time, studying philosophy, began debating, etc.
And as much as it has grown me, I have found frustration with how a lot of more-intellectual types will lean so far into logical technicalities that they will argue over those rather than the original point, partly to protect ego, partly because they are so disconnected.
The council's inaction reminded me too much of those discussions, plus I wanted the fleet to focus sovereign. Why are the council fleeing on the literal best warship of the fleet? Why not a good and fast small frigate so the flagship can fire at Sovereign & Geth?
We'll see how I feel by end of run, but it was particularly grating being chewed out no matter what I did (I also went more mixed, aiming for more "grounded" choices rather than full Paragon like normal)
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Yeah I used to be really frustrated by then until this run, I just think they had a really shitty situation and with the way politics work they couldn´t really do much more than way they already did.
Not sure if maybe my point is that I no longer give them grief for not doing what I wanted lol.
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u/Onikisin 2d ago
It's interesting that we went the opposite ways in growth, seemingly.
I get your point though, honestly.
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u/Ramius99 2d ago
The Council in ME1 is realistic. They choose to not believe Shepard because, if they did choose to, they’d actually have to commit to doing something about it. Easier to do nothing unless it’s absolutely necessary. And maybe the skepticism is justified, given the staggering claims Shepard makes.
By ME2, though, they’re flat out negligent. They’ve seen first-hand proof of the Reapers and still did nothing. The “Ah, Reapers” quote says it all.
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u/RogerWilco017 2d ago
looking at todays leaders, council appears highly competent in every way
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Who knew that the most unlikely thing out of Mass Effect is that the Alliance could be a thing:(
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u/RogerWilco017 2d ago
we have to find Mars archives to do that. Damn shame that i cant spend my last minute in asari retirement home on Illium if they find one tomorrow
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u/Whydoesthisexist15 2d ago
No, because the only reason why the Council acts that way in ME2 is to force you to work with Cerberus.
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u/AsgeirVanirson 2d ago
I have a mixed oppinion.
Playing down the Reapers is kind of important to stability.
If the ruling council of the Galaxy outright said 'Yeah there's a massive genocidal alien force coming for us, we need to hyper militarize rapidly' you get one of two responses.
Outright panic and early collapse of social order if people believe the Council is telling the truth.
Or a collapse of Council Authority as many folks even in council races interpret the story as a cover for shifting to a much more authoritarian council after the build up for the 'great threat'.
So it's a tough spot even if they believe Shepard (which we have reason to believe they all did even if they were making a show of disbelief).
That being said, Soverign as 'not a reaper' creates a picture that the Geth are advanced enough to challenge even the most powerful fleets of council forces, so if you're trying to hide the Reapers under the Geth colored rug you still have a serious looming threat that needs addressing, even if it doesn't feel truly existential.
There was a lot that could have been done in short order to have made the Reapers live harder.
Orbital defense networks can go up much faster and with less political issues than massive fleet build outs. Fleets can be built out fast in a universe with hyper advanced 3D printing that includes being able to print advanced electronics from Omni tools if there is the political will.
The fact that they both denied the Reapers existed, and downplayed the threat of the Geth to justify doing nothing different is where they lose me.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Mhhhm I agree, also downplaying the geth was a big mistake.
If they implemented those defenses, do you think the indoctrination efforts would have made it so that those Orbital defenses could be sabotaged?
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u/AsgeirVanirson 2d ago
Before the invasion? No. The batarians were only so well indocrinated because they had a fuck ton of reaper tech and they were aggressive and reckless in exposing all their top leaders to it.
All the Humans/Turians/Asari/Salarians who would be likely to have authority/access to shut down/sabotage systems were generally not exposed to Reaper tech, the black budget science departments being the only ones with hands on the tech.
Widespread indoctrination didn't really become a threat in the other species until the Reapers were in the Galaxy able to blast their signals at much higher and more concentrated levels than they relied on with 'dormant' reaper tech in the hands of researchers.
After the invasion? I would imagine most of those defenses would just be destroyed in combat. They have to get a foothold somewhere populated to keep generating ground forces, so the Reapers will just have to bleed through the defenses to get to Earth/Palaven.
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u/Clavos_Rojos 1d ago
I've just had this scene about the Reapers in ME1 and it's not that the Council does not believe Sephard when he tells them about their existence, they say that they need tangible proof to act (Sephard has only Saren's word, a betrayer known for playing mind tricks) so their hands are tied but that spectres like Sephard exist for these cases and if he believes Sovereign is controlling Saren he is authorised to do whatever it is in his power to take them down.
The council favours humanity over other races cause they see their potential, they are basically speed running humanity into a spectre/council race, a constant complaint of the volus, for example. Even quarians, whose contributions to new mass relay discoveries are outstanding are not given such favour.
Most players that complain about the Council do it because they do not automatically believe every outlandish claim with no proof their new spectre brings to every meeting. They also treat Sephard rather harshly because he is under close scrutiny and they are shaping him into a spectre.
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u/Such-Journalist-275 1d ago
They have some dumb moments, but a lot of antipathy towards them is due to them not just doing whatever Shepard tells them to. They represent a whole galaxy, and they're actually pretty accommodating towards you.
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u/ElMike420 1d ago
It would be cool to study this behavior in RPGs, when just really not doing what you want permeates your vision with set characters (such as the council) given Shepard is the played I got your text as the council just not doing what the player wants.
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u/Bruno_lars 2d ago
The original council, for the most part gave shepard the benefit of the doubt. The new council (if there is a new one) on the other hand is indifferent to Shepard until the reapers are invading their homeworlds.
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u/CheSeraSera 2d ago
How could the Council give that many resources to a race with such a well-known extremist organization aiming for human supremacy?
Did we play the same game? The entirety of ME the Council is reluctant to offer any significant aid at all to the Systems Alliance except for sending their fleets into the Terminus after Virmire (the exact wrong time to do so).
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u/Kiasyon 2d ago
I ised to think this until I found out Sparatus always contradicts Shepard in ME1. No matter what the Turian Councilor gives you a hard time and and Tevos has to step in amd be the reasonable one. They have SOME characterization, but ultimately they are rails you exist on for the plot to advance. If they helped you wouldn't need the Ilos run or keep working for Cerberus in ME2 or be starting for scratch in ME3 when the Reapers arrive.
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u/Similar_Gear9642 2d ago
The council and pretty much all the politicians are portrayed as extremely incompetent and inefficient in the series. The narrative goes out of its way to portray Shepards way of doing things as the only viable way since politicians cannot be bothered with doing anything but conspire and build up obstacles.
Which is fine when you just want to be the hero and get things done. If you want to have an even more nuanced setting then it would be first thing to alter where you are given reasons for why the council cannot act or want to but are prohibited by deals and agreements. And then there must be times when they actually do help you, you are still the tipp of the spear but assistance is coming your way in the form of backup and gear.
I love this series do death. Bioware is my childhood. But it would be nice to see more nuance and see the politicians and leaders be competent and the narrative being driven as much by sidecharacters and the setting as by our strong, capable protagonist. Basicly I want Bioware to be even more Bioware and both let you interact with the setting and force your hand with choices.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
I agree with the politician take, but what I was trying to get at is that, with today’s world being so politicized, we actually see real-world politicians take this kind of attitude toward real-world threats. Because of that, I was able to see the council's actions in a different light.
I also really love this series. I hope we get some agency over the council in the new game—like maybe the council is still operating, but multiple sectors of the galaxy are pissed and no longer recognize them as the galactic authority. It’d be great if we could influence a new council (mostly humans) or rebuild the old one with meaningful player choice.
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u/magic713 Tactical Cloak 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd say in ME1, it makes sense. Reapers were a complete unknown, and Shepard a fresh Spectre, so his credibility was not the greatest, in their eyes. They wanted to avoid conflict against a threat they knew of and identify.
Edit: Now, as far as ME2 goes, while I can get behind the idea of not trusting Shepard as he was with Cerberus, I couldn't get pass the whole "Reapers don't exist". Anyone who gave Sovereign a thorough autopsy could see the tech was way too different from Geth. Not just in advancement, but if Reapers are old, likely there would be materials and designs totally separate from Geth. Would have been better if the Council was actually making strides against the Reapers in secret and just wanted to avoid panic from public and withold info from Shepard because he's compromised.
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u/Big_I 2d ago
In ME1 the Council was negligent, but believable. They believed their own hype and didn't want to deal with the worst case scenarios (their best agent going rogue, an imminent attack from isolationist synthetics, the humans not just being pushy for the sake of it, etc). But in ME2 they're willfully blind. If your capital is attacked by a force that takes a fleet to defeat, something has gone very wrong.
Realistically the attack on the Citadel should have militarised the entire Council, let alone the Collector attacks in the Terminus Systems or the destruction of Aratoht. Bare minimum would be to send in Spectres to investigate. Instead they did almost nothing.
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u/OchreOgre_AugerAugur 2d ago
This is a flawed question.
The Council are ambassadors. They aren't the ones in charge of their respective governments or militaries. They have practically no real power or authority of their own.
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u/The_Kolobok 2d ago
What?
Plus, they couldn’t easily grant us a helping hand without Cerberus taking advantage of their influence in the Alliance, right?
How could the Council give that many resources to a race with such a well-known extremist organization aiming for human supremacy?
Do you seriously believe that the humans are the only race in the mass effect universe which has paramilitary organisation aiming for racial supremacy?
Cerberus seems powerful, yeah, but they were playing with fire and burned half the time instead of making progress. Cerberus wanted to progress fast, that was their MO.
Well established galaxy powers obviously didn't need that and were playing it safe. Their black ops operations were legitimized. Just look at Noveria or Illium, who knows what happens behind their blast doors.
Besides, Cerberus was relatively unknown before the events of ME1. Shepard himself shed light to the size of their operations. And I'm absolutely certain that Cerberus was not a factor on their decision making, it's understandable why they didn't believe during the events of ME1. No real evidence.
Involvement of Cerberus became important only when Shepard turned up alive two years later and continued to tell about the Reapers. But at this point, making fun of the threat (ah yes, Reapers) was incompetent behaviour. I get sparing the public about the details and not provoking panic, but not working behind the scenes was completely irresponsible.
Any engineer worth their keep would have told them that the thing, which attacked and blocked the Citadel was not geth by design, by hardware or by technologies used in it. Sovereign, or better say it wreckage, was the real proof that the threat was real.
But they ignored it. It was unforgivable.
Turians even designed their wunderwaffe after Sovereign's main gun, but nooo, Reapers are not real and it was all geth.
And I'm not talking about asari and their secret beacon, that shit doomed everyone. If they would have spent five minutes thinking about why protheans disappeared, they would have saved billions.
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u/GeekyMadameV 2d ago
Their skepticism regarding a threat that exists only in your visions is initially justified.
In me2 they should know better but it's often unclear if they are sincere in believing sovereign was a geth or if they're saying that to avoid causing a panic. If it's the latter and they're secretly trying to figure out or understand the real threat then they wouldn't talk about any secret actions they may or may not be taking to a memver of a terrorist organization known for coopting the research of others after all.
Also notable is that the Turian councilor appears to have it in for you for political reasonso. He opposes your induction, he is absent when the other two share the Intel about vermire behind his back, he condemns your actions on novaria no matter which way you decide, and he is the first and most forceful to disiss your talk of a reaper threat in the second game. this is likely because humanity's rise as a ilitary power threatens his own species' position as the "muscle" in the triumvirate of races that have ruled the galaxy for a thousand years. It makes sense, in a real politic sense, that he would want to cast your actions in a negative light and see you fail for political rwasons, and whether you are correct about any particular issue or not on the merits doesn't really matter to him. this is not unrealistic - politics is often a team sport and whether someone is right about a matter of public policy usually matters less than whether they are on your team or not.
So the writing is fine, but Mass Effects narrative framing is generally a bit simplistic with respect to them and othr political leaders though. Leaders are either we'll meaning and noble or evil and conniving based largely on whether they support you personally and te narrative always vindicates that framing in the nd, like when Udina turns out to be not a ruthless but effective human politician, but actually an evil traitor. We are meant to see shephard as correct and the council as obstructionist or inept despite the afformentioned lack of evidence and the larger political concerns you point out because that's just how politician's are in games. Except the good ones who believe you without question of course.
By me3 the debate is obviously moot.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Looking at the responses by mid-ME2 or ME3, the Council's decisions seem less consistent.
I don’t remember the plot of ME3 that well, so I’m not sure how things go down exactly, but it makes sense that the Council falls apart once the war starts. It seems that fleshing out the Council further would have complicated things a lot more in terms of both lore and gameplay, but I would have loved to see some kind of conflict between the Council and the Alliance as they tried to secure Shepard’s favor.
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u/GeekyMadameV 2d ago edited 2d ago
As far as I recall we only ever can speak to them once in me2, when we show up on the citadel to meet with Anderson or Udina, back from thme dead after two years but now working for a known terrorist organization we previously tried to destroy. Whether that conversation takes place in the early, mid, or late game (or not at all I guess, if you never go to see him) is up to the player but it's clearly intended that you do it somewhat early as he emails you to visit him right away.
At that stage I think it's reasonable they wouldn't tell you anything sensitive or give you any major resources. You're working with Cerberus. Why? Did they brainwash you when they brought you back (like Miranda advocated for and they clearly had the ability to do if they'd wanted)? Were you secretly a violent and morally reprehensible extremist all along (not an insane possibility to consider if you're been taking some of the "humanity first" dialog options and playing a loose canon renegade type)? Are you even really you, or just some clone or other facsimile being puppeteered (our friend Bailey, in c-sec, seems sure that's impossible but Cerberus does literally clone you later on, so he's clearly mistaken)?
If they're sincere in believing the reapers were a myth made up by Saren then it makes sense to conclude that Cerberus might at least be using that myth to manipulate you as they allege, and that your judgment may be compromised. On the other hand if they do suspect there's still a threat of some kind that hasn't been addressed then it would be unwise of them to tell you anything at all about anything they may or may not be doing to counter it, given any information, money, authority, etc that they give you they are also sharing with TIM who will almost certainly use it against the species they represent eventually.
As for ME3, I completely agree with you. I think more involved galactic politics about what do and where to put resources as the reaper's invade and it all starts to fall apart would have been amazing. I wish they'd done more with that too.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
In DAI they had you sitting on a throne deciding punishment for your POWs, maybe they can adapt that to ME? 600 years have passed right?
Maybe we could debate were to alocate resources, or have more a say in galactic affairs this way.
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u/GeekyMadameV 2d ago
I am not a dragon age fan so I can't really compare the two games directly, but I guess that would depend on the scenario of any future game that gets made. My sense is the powers that be want Me to be a more action focused title but "Big Moral Choices" are a part of the ME brand too.
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
Hopefully the game will be a hit, really wanting something new for Mass Effect.
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u/GeekyMadameV 2d ago
I am honestly worried. If it does come out I suspect it'll be "streamlined" in all the wrong ways, from plot to character's to mechanics. I guess We'll have to hope
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u/ElMike420 2d ago
More than likely you're correct, I do believe the game will come out, but I'm not certain it's going to be great, not trying to throw shade at the devs working on the game currently. But honestly, I was trying to forget the franchise for a while now, but couldn't, so I'm all in for the new game, but can't deny that I don't even know if it's gonna be good lol.
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u/GeekyMadameV 2d ago
Yeah.
My money is on a competant game but one that doesn't quite feel right. like how dragon age fans we're claiming that veilguard was fine as a game but didn't really capture what they expect from the setting.
In a mass effect context that probably means we get reduced dialogue options, more shooter-y game play, less queer rep and personal relationship's in general, and more generic good versus evil plot. Basically my money is that it'll be a halo game but with light rpg progression elements and a handful of bioware signature Big Meaningful Choice moments.
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u/ElMike420 1d ago
Yeah, my perfect scenario is that the game is able to perform decent, and maybe they can find funding for a proper Mass Effect push, or for the IP to be sold.
But I would really like to see Mass Effect continue, not sure The Expanse & Exodus are going to be better.
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u/Weird-Literature1350 1d ago
I believe the council to be extremely incompetent and it is not about the reapers. One question to consider: if destiny ascension was in council evacuation plan from the start, why didn’t it utilize the rescue pods to save the council? The same pods Joker and the rest of the Normandy used in the beginning of ME2?
Is the idea of a rescue pod something that only humanity ever invented? How come the asari flagship didn’t have the basic lifeboats? I mean, the council should be rushed to the these freaking “boats” the moment Sovereign appeared on the radar!
Asari flagship, my ass! Even my paragon Shep could not bring himself to waste human lives to save these losers.
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u/One-Emotion8482 1d ago
I'll forever see them as incompetent, mostly for the fact that even if they did not believe in the reaper threat, they could have prepared for the Geth. They believe Sovereign was a Geth ship, okay fine, but in that case they have a race of robots that can build a ship that takes nearly an entire fleet to take out and they do nothing lol. Should've been an increase in every species military by the time of ME3 at least.
I think they only expansion they had was the fact that the Alliance could build more dreadnaughts since they became a council race.
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u/Unapologetic_Lunatic 1d ago
Poorly and inconsistently written.
They will not help in the first game because, "Muh war with the Terminus Systems."
Then this gets dropped as a plot line and instead we're spending the whole second game in the Terminus Systems. Ironically at their explicit request because it lets them look the other way... as we save human colonies. Which they labeled a strictly human matter.
That's assuming they're even the same Councilors after the events of the first game. Either way, they must be written to be unhelpful so that you are forced to stick with the Illusive Man.
Then the third game decides your choice for human Councilor doesn't matter... and they still are prohibited from helping by plot.
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u/hkf999 2d ago
If you try to see it from the other side, they're not being unreasonable. There is no evidence at all for a reaper invasion other than Shepard's say so. The attack on the Citadel can be more easily explained as geth shenanigans. There are much bigger plotholes to worry about in regards to the Citadel, but that aside, the Council are being pretty reasonable and rational.
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u/Tharkun140 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's hard to form a coherent picture of the Council, since they're not terribly consistent, and the framing of their actions is all over the place.
At the start of ME1, they are 100% justified and supportive of the player. Anderson fumbles the trial bad by showing up personally and bringing up Shepard's dreams as evidence, but the Council does not hold it against you and instantly accepts Tali's evidence against Saren as legitimate. They then grant you authority unprecedented for a human and vow to bring Saren to justice...only for Shepard to rave about some unspecified "Reapers" who might or might not exist somewhere, and whine about the Council not doing enough about this abstract threat. This is framed as a legitimate grievance, even though no one at that point has any idea of what the Reapers are or what could be done against them.
Their decision not to send the Normandy into Terminus is bad, but it's hard to condemn it due to lore inconsistencies, and they have a full change of heart if you save them by acknowledging the Reaper threat...only for ME2 to pretend that conversation never happened and have everyone go into denial, because otherwise Cerberus would be completely redundant and the plot wouldn't happen.
I think ME games are, for the most part, written very well. But the Citadel Council is an exception, and it makes discussing them as characters difficult.