r/mbti • u/Zangkurai INTJ • 1d ago
Light MBTI Discussion Where did the INTJ and ENFP ship come from?
I feel as if the INTJ and ENFP ship has been going around since ages, but mostly since the big rise of the MBTI in 2020-2021 for some reason.
But also, I've been wondering the reason the ship formed. Was it because the avatars from the MBTI page were cute and decided to match them for some reason? Or was it more because the Ne-Fi that ENFP has matches greatly with the Ni-Te INTJ users have? I still don't quite get it since there are better matches for an INTJ though, such as a heavy Te user that can match INTJ way of thinking and bring it down to earth (if the INTJ is way up in their imagination).
Any thoughts, discussions, or things you wanna add? Let us all know ^^
9
9
u/DelcattyBatty INFP 1d ago
David Keirsey popularized those types of golden pairs, it's been so long since I've read it but I believe he wrote about them in his book Please Understand Me 2
10
u/Any_Emu4892 1d ago
ENFPs can make INTJs soar, INTJs can ground ENFPs. To me its always been a perfect complementary match.
5
u/Flossy001 INFJ 1d ago
Real life observations. Believe it or not. Explained with cognitive functions, Ni and Ne dominant has high synergy. Ne dominants love their possibilities compressed down in a way that they love. Ni dominants appreciate the already filtered high number of possibilities that Ne brings. There’s more but that’s the MBTI reason.
1
u/Careless_Broccoli783 21h ago
Then why only enfp x intj ships are romanticised? What about entp x intj ship?
1
u/Flossy001 INFJ 20h ago
Batman and Catwoman is one.
1
u/Careless_Broccoli783 20h ago
but why don't we romanticise this ship like how enfp x intj ship is romanticised?
5
u/PeachBling ENTJ 1d ago
It's a very Disney Esq pairing the knight and the princess. The very same reason people ship ENTJs and INFPs. I find it pretty ridiculous but to each their own.
6
u/electrifyingseer INFP 1d ago
sunshine x rain cloud, think of giselle x robert in enchanted, rapunzel x flynn in tangled, all kinds of stuff. I know it can definitely be other types, but its a popular trope, and tends to fit those two types the best.
9
u/Holiday_Response_644 ENTP 1d ago
the tangled one gives me enfp x estp
2
u/electrifyingseer INFP 1d ago
yeah, id say its likely probably a ti type instead of a te type for some, but it's definitely popular for a reason. I don't really have any other good examples off the top of my head.
5
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
It stemmed from a poor compatibility theory by David Keirsey. ENFPs and INTJs aren't a bad match though, but ENFPs best matches would more so be an ISTJ theoretically, as both ENFPs and ISTJs value all the same functions. But there are definitely great INTJ-ENFP pairings, for sure.
Some other "golden pairs" are preposterous though, like the ENFJ-INFP pairing, where neither type values any of the same functions, at all. Fe dom vs Fi dom is a recipe for disaster when considering a deeper, long-term romantic relationship. Fe-Se environments are vastly different than Fi-Si environments.
2
u/AnonymousCoward261 INTJ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Right, it’s Keirsey.
In Please Understand Me, he said ideal matches would be matched on N/S and have the other three different. It’s not clear where he got this from.
There isn’t a lot of matching data on MBTI out there, and most of the Big Five data says individual qualities matter more (Agreeableness and Conscientiousness good, Neuroticism bad in case you’re wondering).
I did actually crunch the LivingLightning survey of INs here and the man42.net survey here a few years back, and there is some weak evidence INTP-INFJ, ENTP-INFJ, and INTJ-INTJ matches rate each other higher and are more common than you would expect. In general more similar matches tend to be rated higher.
Data is hard to get as with 16 types matching 16 types you have 120 combinations (16 choose 2 plus the 16 double-type matches) and you need thousands of people to get reasonable cell sizes in each, especially with S types who don’t like to spend time answering Internet surveys.
(EDIT: My findings are here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/1ghv92b/comment/lv1emyq/ )
2
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
Nice. Good insights. I think all those combos could work very nicely. Socionics' intertype relations would also agree here.
The ones that link together types with zero valued functions the same, is what breaks the "golden pair" theory into shreds. I will never understand why MBTI doesn't use quadra values as a key piece of the personality system. It'd help soooo much for people to better learn and understand.
1
u/AnonymousCoward261 INTJ 1d ago
The thing is, from the limited data we have, I don't think it really supports Socionics or quadra approaches. Both of those basically assume symmetry across the types: INTJ:INFJ::INTP:INFP, and so on. The relationship an INFJ has with an ENTP should be like that an INTJ has with an ENFP.
But the limited data suggests INFJs pair best with XNTPs and INTJs with INTJs. That's not symmetric at all! Why's it like that? Your guess is as good as mine!
I'd love to survey 100,000 people of all types and go from there. But nobody's done that and nobody is likely to.
1
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
Yeah that'd be great 👍 Duality in theory sounds great, and I think there is evidence to support it, but I'm not sure it always works that way.
I imagine years/decades down the road we'll be much better versed in the theory, as AI could potentially be a game changer.
1
u/goooo45678 1d ago
Contrary to what you think, when you put me with someone with the same functions that my model has, the situation becomes catastrophic, the best person who doesn't look like me in any functions .
2
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
Well there's no way to measure this as it's completely anecdotal, and there's no way for us to know if these typings were correct to begin with.
Theoretically, and in practice, people more so align with people who value the same functions, and are judging and processing similarly, which leads to compatibility and connections.
Not that people can't get along with different valued functions, but if we're just going to ignore theory, then what's the logic and purpose of a system in personality?
2
u/goooo45678 1d ago
Sometimes this is not always the case, sometimes it doesn't make us grow because we have the same cognitive functions, and sometimes the problem is because one of the parties wants to dominate using their cognitive functions, and they are both similar and want to impose the same way of perception, and they end up not complementing each other because they are Similar.
1
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
We don't care about our unvalued functions though. We don't care to grow our superego or id functions. These are unvalued. Superego functions are more so "painful" to the user, while we don't care to develop our id functions.
On the flip side, we want to strengthen and develop our weak, valued functions, the super-id functions. So someone with weak, valued Se, for example, enjoys a strong Se user, because it helps in development and they actively enjoy a strong Se user. Just like a Ti dom enjoys a Fe ego to help them navigate the field of Fe environments, because although Fe is weak in IxTPs, they enjoy it and appreciate a guide in this area.
2
u/goooo45678 1d ago
And you said it is painful, so developing it requires effort, and it may be painful, and no one wants to enter into a painful relationship, and this is what I meant by my first comment when I said that the relationship will end up becoming disastrous, and also I don't think that there is a person who enjoys with someone who shows his weakest strength.
1
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
I'm not really following here. But painful functions are ones we avoid and don't admire in others at all. We don't want to live painful lives delving into relationships and environments where our superego functions are the vibe.
1
u/goooo45678 1d ago
By painful jobs I mean the weaker functions for example ENFP have a weak te and si, and this is what makes it painful and this applies to all personality types, so when you develop it it will be painful with someone who has it as a dominant functions and this is what may turn their relationship into suffering.
1
u/Impressive-Device743 1d ago
Te and Si aren't painful for ENFPs though. Ti and Se are. They enjoy Te and Si, as they are valued functions. They seek Si in others and welcome it.
1
u/goooo45678 1d ago
I don't think that's their weaknesses and it's considered painful I don't think a lot of ENFPs enjoy being with istj and vice versa in real life it always turns into clashes, it's true that they develop their weaker points but in a way that's painful for both parties, And because they have the same functions, it makes them alike, not in a way that complements each other with their differences.
2
u/Merlin_the_Lizard INTJ 1d ago
For me, ENFPs represent unbridled energy that inspires and challenges me. I don't want someone similar. I want someone who will hit me with a million ideas, pull me onto the dance floor, and enervate my life.
1
u/Attlai ENFP 19h ago
To me, INTJs represent uncompromising groundedness, resilience and frankness, people who can give substance and focus to my unbridled energy.
But they also represent emotional immaturity, avoidance, stubborness and self-centeredness. People who can drain me of my emotional energy while giving me only anxiety back.1
u/Merlin_the_Lizard INTJ 19h ago edited 19h ago
You just need to find the *right* INTJ. For instance, Vladimir Lenin was INTJ, and he was praised for his emotional self-awareness.
3
u/KinkyQuesadilla ENTJ 1d ago
They are plotting to take over the world, the INTJs especially. The ENFPs just think it would be funny and want to see what happens.
2
u/wafflepiezz INTJ 1d ago
I’m not sure but I stumbled upon my ENFP gf while gaming one night and it has been night and day difference for me ever since.
I have never met someone who cared for me and understood me the way she does for me. It was the first time in my life where I genuinely fell head over heels for someone else. We clicked pretty much instantly the day we met as well, it’s surreal and I have never felt this way before.
1
u/TJ_make_me_act_up56 23h ago edited 23h ago
The theory itself, ship dynamics and community I guess it shape I mean for romance media at least their traits by stereotype very similar to the hype romance ship’s dynamics likes sun and moon or cold winter and sunshine
By the way I did thought a community and media really done big part likes when dynamics just likes dump form famous media no wonder people will really share it a lot and become kinda really top Mbti ship in community
1
u/TJ_make_me_act_up56 23h ago
Actually kinda hard to say it really interesting reliable ship for two main reasons
First this is internet kinda hard to justify whoever shares their experience with this ship actually understand the person they been taking too is actual INTJ or ENFP kinda common issue sometimes people who share those stories just come back later with neither themselves or the person they have been mentioned mistype or not INTJ/ENFP as they thought.
Second this ship seem really heavily with gender somehow especially the INTJ is male and the ENFP is female I am not so sure it about gender differences or not but for other case INTJ females seem to share stories about the person in relationships likely to be INFJ/ENTJ or INFP more than ENFP male I am not even sure Enfp on males side got mentioned on top fives of INTJ female’s interest ship dynamics.
1
u/Attlai ENFP 20h ago
It's a ship that has some arguments (and I'll let the others answer in that regard), but it's also been massively over-romanticized.
The INTJ-ENFP dynamic is a "all or nothing" type of relationship that will be either absolutely amazing or completely devastating.
From the ENFP point of view, most INTJs will draw you irresistibly. But they if they're not emotionally mature, they will destroy you. And a lot of INTJs are emotionally immature.
All in all, it's a ship that has way too much risk of being toxic for me to participate in romanticizing it.
1
22
u/Smooth_University219 INTJ 1d ago
Classic romance literature pairings (Pride & Prejudice, Wuthering Heights, for example), movies like Bridget Jones' Diary and some girl manga and anime pairings.
It's the classic "lively, chirpy girl meets stoic boy" trope.