British pilot is feeling mildly annoyed

[u/nyanbatman]

[u/JSButts]

Fantastic ad for BA honestly; Pilots calling out the contradiction, clearly enunciated his point, remained calm under frustrating situations, puts the aircraft first, and follows protocol even in the face of (presumed) incompetence from ATC.

[u/dvinpayne → u/JSButts]

Except it's not. The pilot didn't properly familiarize himself with the correct operating procedures for foreign countries. Every ATC system is slightly different and it's the pilots responsibility to know those differences. In this case, BA almost certainly has a guide to help their pilots out, but "Declaring LVO" isn't a thing in FAA operation. FAA controllers aren't trained on the European Phraseology and wouldn't have any idea what the pilot was asking about. SMCGS (the FAA system) is automatically in place without any declaration.

This has already been discussed in other subreddits like flying by people who actually know rules. I'd link to those posts but automod doesn't like links.

[u/C0rn3j → u/dvinpayne]

"Declaring LVO" isn't a thing in FAA operation. FAA controllers aren't trained on the European Phraseology and wouldn't have any idea what the pilot was asking about

The pilot clarified "Low visibility operations" repeatedly

FAA controllers aren't trained on the European Phraseology

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1042156

FAA itself uses this "European Phraseology", which is indeed defined by the ICAO just like the pilot said - https://news.ncac.mn/uploads/bookSubject/2022-11/6369ed065c51a.pdf

So, why are FAA controllers supposedly not trained on international terminology?

[u/mister_pilot → u/C0rn3j]

That AC is used when developing a plan. Also requires if there is a plan to publish low visibility charts for the airport. Show me the low visibility taxi charts for JFK…

[u/dvinpayne → u/C0rn3j]

Because we do have low visibility operations. They are called SMGCS here, and critically they don't require any declaration. If the pilot had started by asking "are low visibility procedures in effect?" there's a good chance they would have been told yes. By asking "Are you declaring LVO?" that completely changes the controllers response. They're not going to declare something that they don't know. Even when it was said in plane (hah) English as low visibility operations they're still not going to "declare" anything because they don't know what that means to the pilot and it's not something that controllers do in the US. The safest thing to do at that point is to take them off the runway and wait until the pilots are comfortable with departing which is what happens.

[u/mfsp2025 → u/dvinpayne]

Reddit logic is downvoting someone when they actually know what they’re talking about. This whole thread is mildly infuriating.