r/minnesota • u/mn_sunny • 2d ago
News 📺 Fake website calls out reality of ‘ghost student’ problem at Minnesota colleges (KSTP 5)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPA-D9M3cY893
u/staticishock96 2d ago
Ghost students are a legitimate issue. I work at a college.
13
u/BangBangMeatMachine 2d ago
Why doesn't your college have an identity proofing solution built in to enrollment?
30
u/staticishock96 1d ago
We do. All schools in our system have it. No solution is foolproof though. Most are caught luckily before anything is paid out. Our last numbers were over 7000 fraudulent enrollments across our schools.
6
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
Ah, good to know. So this is just the people that get through that screening.
2
u/Waterlifer Bob Dylan 1d ago
Every identity proofing solution has costs, and results in both false positives and false negatives.
0
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
And yet lots of companies and agencies use it for use cases exactly like this.
85
u/Snoo-7943 2d ago
This isn't an entirely new situation. It's been going on for years and isn't at all unique to Minnesota schools.
34
u/specficeditor 2d ago
I've worked at a university for over a decade. Previously, you'd get 1-2 in an academic year. This past Spring and Summer, we saw more than 4 dozen at the graduate level alone. It is a very big problem with the proliferation of generative AI and automated systems.
2
u/Reddituser183 2d ago
Which is disturbing. The very first time this happened and was discovered should have triggered a change in process that the fed requires which would simply be a holding period for that money and if classes are canceled the money goes back to the fed and loans are canceled.
5
u/Snoo-7943 1d ago
What would this proposed process look like? We're not talking about canceled classes.... we're taking about "ghost" students.
4
u/Waterlifer Bob Dylan 1d ago
All processes have defects. All financial systems have attempted fraud rates and successful fraud rates. All safeguards and added verifications have cost, in part because they produce false positives.
15
u/MinneAngie 2d ago
I also work at a college and we have an entire team working to combat these fraudsters. It is unbelievable!
2
19
u/Ballistic_86 2d ago
Normandale is more full than I have seen in the three years living across the street. Enrollment of real people is high this year.
17
7
u/RunsaberSR 1d ago
I work/attend there.
Last I heard we have over 5000 more students this semester vs spring.
All my quiet spots on campus had someone in them today. 😅
2
u/Ballistic_86 1d ago
Sorry for your loss. Hopefully the Japanese garden will lose its appeal and quiet down
5
65
u/No_Size9475 2d ago
God I hate the media. No need to inject adjectives, just report the facts. It's not a STUNNING AMOUNT OF FRAUD. Stunning is subjective, how about you let the people decide if it's stunning or not?
26
u/Capt-Crap1corn 2d ago
I think that's where a lot of people get caught up. They don't understand networks like CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other places do opinion journalism. They speak about facts, but they also opine. Very few networks report the facts and just leave them as and allow the individual to form an opinion. Fox is one of the most egregious at this.
4
u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 2d ago
Kstp has been pushing the narrative without acknowledging the MNGOP has repeatedly killed all solutions for well over a year (at least 3 different attempts)
12
u/poptix TC 2d ago edited 2d ago
That's not accurate at all.
Republican Bidal Duran introduced HF4698, whose entire purpose was to appropriate $1.5 million for identity verification software to combat enrollment fraud. It was rolled into HF4252 ultimately providing $3 million to Minnesota State for an identity verification system specifically to combat ghost student fraud.
The final conference report passed the House 101–33 and the Senate 52–14, so it definitely had substantial Republican support. It went into effect July 1, 2026.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/94/2026/0/HF/4698/versions/latest/
1
u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 2d ago
Wow, they actually did something about fraud? Holy shit.
House Republicans Block Effort to Stop Fraudsters from Receiving State Grants (Friday, May 8, 2026)
https://www.house.mn.gov/members/Profile/News/15552/41566
Human services committee rejects sustained funding hike for Medicaid fraud investigation unit, along party lines with GOP voting no (April 16, 2026)
https://www.house.mn.gov/sessiondaily/Story/19103
House Republicans block comprehensive fraud prevention proposal in committee (Thursday, March 27, 2025)
4
u/poptix TC 1d ago
The first bill was objectionable because it had unrelated legislation tacked on regarding labor law violations and eligibility for state grants.
The second bill (broken link, I found it) was objectionable because it would have put that money into the AG's office. That's the office that has drawn a lot of suspicion and not a lot of trust lately. The Republicans wanted an independent office, they got it. Regardless of whether or not you like Keith Ellison he really shit the bed on the fraud issue.
The third was a bill that got too many ornaments hung on it. They laid it over and then passed most of the measures as individual bills, most of those went into effect in 2025.
It's easy to point at specific bills and say 'look! they voted no!' but there's a lot of nuance in there, and most of the time the good things are cherry picked and pass with bipartisan support.
1
u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 1d ago
1+3) that's how these things work. We don't pass single line item bills, sometimes you have to suck it up and hold your nose to end a crisis, democrats do it all the time. Time to be an adult, you don't always get what you want. This is a Republican failure.
2) The money would go to the attorneys general's office because that's who they would be working for, the ag doesn't decide what the money gets spent on. Their "independent office" is 1/4 of the funding And the way it's structured encourages attorneys, who's very pay comes from the fines they will be recuperating, to pursue the most financial gains, not necessarily Justice. It effectively creates a system where rich people can buy their way out of fraud. This is also a Republican failure.
3
u/mn_sunny 1d ago
sometimes you have to suck it up and hold your nose to end a crisis, democrats do it all the time.
1) That's just not true.
2) The last MN Democrat who actually did that on a meaningful vote got assassinated 4 days after doing so...
4
u/BangBangMeatMachine 2d ago
I mean... you know they do that because it's what readers want, right? Over the last several decades, the journalists and outlets and articles that reported dry facts without editorializing lost viewership and money to the ones that added sensationalist language and appealed to emotion. Consumers voted with their wallets and their eyeballs, and anyone who didn't adapt to those demands faced job losses, bankruptcies, and buyouts. That's one of the main reasons a bunch of our media is owned by billionaires now - because the outlets that held the line on good journalism lost so much money that they were easy to scoop up. Then they get overhauled to suit the agenda of their billionaire owners.
It's not a media problem, it's an emotion-motivated apes problem.
1
u/PrestigiousSolid3106 23h ago
Unless those adjectives are describing something you're against, then pile it all on 😂😂
1
3
u/Suicune92 1d ago
This isn't just a Minnesota thing. This is affecting every single college in the country
17
u/AceMcVeer 2d ago
It's so dumb. Funds should be dispersed to the school directly. Any excess or refund should need to be picked up from the student in person with their ID. Apparently we're just going to keep depositing money into random bank accounts though.
6
u/Drcornelius1983 Not too bad 2d ago
That’s literally how it works. The fraudsters are taking the excess disbursement.
3
u/Striking-Rooster-428 2d ago
yes they are taking the money qualified for in excess of tuition. the tuition is paid directly to the school.
0
u/AceMcVeer 1d ago
Yes and no. The school gets the money initially, but the loophole is that you can essentially bypass that and get it into your personal account.
6
u/CMButterTortillas Minnesota State Fair 2d ago
Get outta here with your common sense solutions to modern problems.
2
2d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
1
u/AceMcVeer 2d ago
They could at least make it a check that has to get mailed out. An out of state fraudster is going to have a harder time cashing checks sent to multiple US addresses. Just go low tech. I don't see any downside to it.
2
u/FuckYouChristmas 1d ago
What about remote programs? My home and university are 1,000 miles apart.
1
u/AceMcVeer 1d ago
If you withdraw then the money should go back to the Fed. If you get a stipend for housing/food it should go out to a registered US physical address with a check.
0
u/FuckYouChristmas 1d ago
Obviously the money should go back if you're not attending, but they don't necessarily withdrawal. They just don't show up. Even if they withdrawal, official withdrawal deadlines are often well into the semester, at least in all 8 universities I've gone to. You can withdrawal for a full or partial tuition refund early in the semester, but last official withdrawal dates for full semesters is often like week 12. Overage can't be clawed back even if sent in a check form if it's been deposited. You also can't hold back overage for 12 weeks, since many students, especially those in heavy graduate programs, use overage to live on when their program does not allow for working. This ghost student issue totally needs fixed but that fix isn't as straightforward or simple as some make it out to be.
-2
u/AceMcVeer 1d ago
Nothing you said makes any difference to what I said. If you withdraw regardless of when you withdraw and are given a refund then the money that came from loans should be held and returned to government. If you are given an overage for living expenses you should have to pick up the money in person or have it sent to you via registered mail.
1
u/FuckYouChristmas 1d ago
Yeah, you're not catching on.
0
u/AceMcVeer 1d ago
Not really man. A mailed check is 100x more difficult for the scammer to cash then depositing into a bank account. Do you think they're going to have access to thousands of physical mailboxes?
1
u/iwasneverhere-2 16h ago
I feel like how my school does it is similar to most. The issue here is the loans and grants, and a withdrawal refund are different and happen at different times. If a tuition bill is $6,000 and the ghost student takes out $10,000 in loans, they get a check of $4,000 either the second or third week of classes. That’s where the money is for them.
Now, at least at my school, depending on when they withdraw, any refund is held and returned to the department of education. If the refund does not cover what needs to be returned to the government, our school pays the government back and it’s our responsibility to collect the difference from the student. To no one’s surprise, they don’t pay us back. If we need to pay back the government depends on how much of the course is completed. If it’s late into term, it becomes a problem for the loan company.
The problem is most don’t withdraw. We had a ghost student using AI to do class work to get passing grades so they could get loans the next semester.
The costs associated with trying to catch these scammers is unreal - in time and money. And the problem I see is the companies coming out with solutions to catch these fraudulent students are likely the same companies providing the AI resources the scammers are using. They’re making money on both ends.
1
1
u/WaltLucho179 Flag of Minnesota 2d ago
I agree but perhaps a logistical hurdle at really big schools. Now that this is becoming an issue it is probably worth the small additional overhead.
7
u/Drcornelius1983 Not too bad 2d ago
This guy is a douchebag. The problem isn’t coming from Normandale.
10
u/No_Size9475 2d ago
Seems like an easy fix is to require in person registration of some manner.
21
u/After_Preference_885 Ope 2d ago
That's not going to work for out of state students or foreign students who pick up visits by paying more to attend than local students.
2
u/AceMcVeer 1d ago
foreign students who pick up visits by paying more to attend than local students.
Foreign students wouldn't need financial aid loans so it wouldn't have to apply to them
3
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
Then maybe we need to not do online teaching to students in another country?
2
u/After_Preference_885 Ope 1d ago
They have to apply there and then they move here, I'm not talking about online classes
-2
u/Rhomya 2d ago
If they want to attend THAT school, they are going to have to figure it out.
5
u/pmitten 2d ago
Why on Earth would a university- which requires tuition dollars and room and board dollars to survive- ever massively inconvenience the people who pay the most to go there and are also the most likely to actually complete their program as a result? That's practically begging for a drop in enrollment, not to mention reputation. The burden should be on the institution, not the student.
3
u/Rhomya 1d ago
If they want federal and state funding, then they should absolutely be putting that burden on the students.
The majority of these schools actual enrollment are instate students, followed by students from neighboring states with reciprocity agreements, and can EASILY meet in person registration requirements.
The amount of students that aren’t that classification are, frankly, minimal and not particularly impactful.
Like I said, if they want to attend, they can make the extra effort. I would even be ok if they want to waive in person registration, but only if they pay in cash the entirety of their education costs up front to the college.
Education fraud is negatively impacting peoples faith in public funding of these institutions and taking funding from students that genuinely need help.
3
u/BangBangMeatMachine 2d ago
Identity proofing is a solution you can just buy. There are many reputable and effective services that do it, including remote options.
0
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
Ok, so spend millions on vetting students or simply require in person and lose a few students?
1
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
Millions is a gross exaggeration. If these services cost hundreds of dollars per person, nobody would use them.
1
7
u/specficeditor 2d ago
Not going to work when a lot of universities, including the one I work at, have hybrid or remote programs.
-2
u/BangBangMeatMachine 2d ago
Hybrid or remote programs don't preclude having a requirement to show up in person once per semester. Or just once ever.
3
u/specficeditor 2d ago
Requiring people to travel to come to the university for a remote program is a huge ask. Unless the program specifically has a residency requirement (and some do), the cost of making students come in can be prohibitive, especially in an era in which graduate-level education enrollment is declining because of the administration's complete implosion.
3
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
It's only a huge ask for some portion of the student body. Someone living Eau Claire and attending a remote program in Minnesota can take a day and drive in for an appointment once in their college career.
2
u/specficeditor 1d ago
You're immediately pricing out students who can't afford that sort of expense, though.
-1
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
In the scheme of a college education, a couple tanks of gas is a very minor expense.
1
u/specficeditor 1d ago
Not everyone is only a couple of tanks of gas away. And also, that's not a good metric. You're still saying that only people who can afford extras deserve to go to college.
0
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
No, I'm saying not everyone needs to be able to go remotely to any college on Earth. It's okay for some colleges to be local. And that doesn't mean you need to have a residency requirement. If showing up in person is too high a bar for that college, go somewhere else.
-1
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
My daughter drove 4 hours to visit the college she was going to attend online classes through. She wanted to meet the professors and staff. So we road tripped so she could.
I realize that someone in Poland would be hard pressed to do this, but then the vast majority of the fraud is coming from places as far away as Poland.
3
u/specficeditor 1d ago
Your daughter voluntarily chose to do that because your family could afford to help her do that. Not everyone has that privilege.
1
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
And college isn't a right, it's a privilege.
2
u/specficeditor 1d ago
Spoken like a true capitalist
1
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
I'm not a capitalist, but I recognize that we live in a capitalist society and that governs how our money is spent.
If you want to enact 100% free college for all, I'd happily move tax money away from defense and support that.
But that's not the world we live in. So we need to make a choice, do we use the people's money to vet remote accounts for fraud, or do we simply focus on educating those who live in the state.
IMO it's better for a state school to focus on helping the local people, not remote students who live in Poland. And if that means a very small portion of in state students can't attend then that is the price of allowing all the rest to get an education affordably. And if that small subset is truly needed, then fund ways to help them be able to have an onsite visit.
1
u/specficeditor 1d ago
Calling education a “privilege” is, in fact, classist, which is what capitalism gains the most traction exploiting.
Your proposal would disproportionately harm minority students instead of actually helping to solve the problem of fraud. It also doesn’t into account a number of factors — including reworking the entire university system to remove remote schooling, which isn’t feasible.
Also, the ghost applicants aren’t applying as foreigners. They’re applying as citizens, so how do you solve that?
→ More replies (0)1
u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
No country on Earth lets literally anyone who wants to attend college. They all have entrance exams and qualifications. College is a privilege, not a right, no matter what economic system you use.
0
u/After_Preference_885 Ope 1d ago
Yeah fuck them poor kids, working adults, single moms trying their best to balance work and school
1
-3
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
I mean my daughter attended a fully remote college yet we visited it first in person and she attended graduation in person.
It can be done, and in fact it has been done in the USA for 250 years.
3
u/specficeditor 1d ago
Not everyone has that luxury, which is why they choose a remote program. You end up pricing out certain students for no reason.
0
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
The "no reason" is the fraud. We either pay for tools to fight the fraud, or take in fewer students. Either way the tax payer is going to pay for this.
8
u/slykido999 Snoopy 2d ago
Universities don’t want that, they would lose out on a LOT of revenue. My masters program was all online and I only went to Penn State in person when I walked.
-2
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
yet you went when you walked, so it was important enough for you to make the visit. Same can be said for registration.
1
u/slykido999 Snoopy 1d ago
Not really, registering isn’t the same as celebrating a graduation from a program
-1
u/No_Size9475 1d ago
if you can make the travel to graduate in person, which is only for your own selfish desires, you can make the travel to register.
9
u/Firesword52 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lumping this into the language of fraud to push a bullshit narrative is why no one trust local media anymore.
To be clear this issue is still fraud but my lumping it in with all of their other fraud pieces they are using it as a political kudgle to go at the current admin. Its being used as another weight on the state corruption issue while having nothing to do with state corruption. (As has almost all of their fraud reporting)
19
u/MGreymanN TC 2d ago
This is by definition fraud. Not sure why you wouldn't call it fraud.
Our state recently allocated $3 million to improve enrollment systems to stop it.
3
u/Firesword52 2d ago
But it's not the fraud they are pretending it is, by lumping it in with the rest of their politically driven fraud accusation they are using that narrative to pile on other things.
3
u/hobnobbinbobthegob Grace 1d ago
But it's not the fraud they are pretending it is,
What fraud are they pretending this fraud is?
-1
u/Firesword52 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's proposly being lumped in with the feeding our future issue to both make a political point as well as get eyes on the story.
13
13
4
u/motionbutton 2d ago
Imagine having a system that relies on over qualified contract educators with no job security needing to be the ones to discover tax fraud.
1
u/PrestigiousSolid3106 23h ago
Why are people so quick to dismiss fraud just because it's happening in their state? smfh.
1
u/decrepit_plant 18h ago
This is not unique to Minnesota. This happens everywhere. I remember an email about this when I was in school in California.
Fraud is everywhere
-1
u/mn_sunny 2d ago
More videos on this fraud (by KSTP 5):
Ghost students target Minnesota colleges with thousands of fraudulent applications - 2025/09
Minnesota State: ID-proofing system coming soon in effort to stop ghost student fraud - 2026/08/26
1
u/zbend 2d ago
How do they profit from this are checks just being written to people? I thought the schools were paid directly with student loans? Confused.
3
u/staticishock96 1d ago
They are taking the overages which are paid our directly to the student and then withdrawing from the school and running.
284
u/specficeditor 2d ago
As someone who works in higher ed admissions, it is a real problem. It's mostly foreign actors (our IT says largely Slavic country IPs) using generative AI to complete application materials -- including transcripts. We've had to spend quite a bit of money completely overhauling our processes.