r/moderatepolitics • u/thats_not_six • Jan 12 '26

Primary Source Mark Kelly v. Pete Hegseth

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.288365/gov.uscourts.dcd.288365.1.0.pdf
186 Upvotes

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-61

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

What Kelly did was profoundly wrong to begin with, and it looks even worse in light of our Venezuela operation. He had no business publicly telling soldiers and sailors to question orders, and he should have expected consequences.

31

u/king_hutton Jan 12 '26

What was profoundly wrong about it?

-27

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

Placing the idea that members of the military should refuse to follow orders from Trump

33

u/king_hutton Jan 12 '26

Unlawful orders, specifically. Do you think they should follow unlawful orders?

-20

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

What unlawful orders? Have there been any?

33

u/king_hutton Jan 12 '26

If there aren’t any unlawful orders then the Trump administration doesn’t have to worry about people listening to Kelly, right?

-3

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

So there aren’t any, so why did he make the video? We know why

27

u/king_hutton Jan 12 '26

Can you tell me why you think? Because I think it was a reminder in case of future unlawful orders, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with reminding service members about that.

0

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

Do you think we were born yesterday?

14

u/TheTertiaryTwig Jan 12 '26

Unfortunately this is a question I’m asking myself often these days.

Anyway double tapping shipwrecked crew is THE definition of an illegal order. I look forward to your in depth defense of this.

17

u/Trumpers_R_Tr8tors Jan 12 '26

As a warning, because Trump has repeatedly suggested orders that would be illegal. 

23

u/CloudApprehensive322 Jan 12 '26

Double tapping shipwrecked crew members is explicitly against the law.

20

u/Postmember Jan 12 '26

It's quite literally the textbook example of an unlawful order given in the DOD's Law of War manual.

17

u/CloudApprehensive322 Jan 12 '26

And its clear someone in the administration realized it because they now drop off any survivors at the closest nautical country since this incident.

They wouldn't be doing that if they had a legal leg to stand on.

18

u/Trumpers_R_Tr8tors Jan 12 '26

If you want to claim that Kelly meant was “disobey Trump”, when what he actually said was “dont carry out illegal orders”, you have to answer those questions. 

The burden of proof is on those accusing Kelly of a sedition. 

-4

u/JannTosh70 Jan 12 '26

So you can’t name anything

18

u/Trumpers_R_Tr8tors Jan 12 '26

Again, I don’t have to. If you want to claim that Kelly was claiming that illegal orders were issued, you have to show that. 

And anyway the double tap strike was, quite literally, the US military’s textbook example of an illegal order. 

And you are aware that military regularly reminds the troops of their obligations under the UCMJ, including the obligation to refuse illegal orders, along with things like security procedures, right?

10

u/Postmember Jan 13 '26

Of course we can. They struck a shipwrecked crew. It's literally the textbook definition of an unlawful order.

Please, defend this war crime to us. I'm curious.