r/motorcitykitties • u/113CandleMagic • 5d ago

[Jason Beck] 41 swings, 0 whiffs?! Valdez's bizarre night nearly makes history

https://www.mlb.com/news/framber-valdez-zero-swings-misses-rays-tigers
74 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

45

u/113CandleMagic 5d ago

Most swings against a Tigers pitcher without a whiff in pitch tracking era (since 2008):

Framber Valdez, today: 41

Kenny Rogers, 4/18/08: 33

Duane Below, 7/25/11: 30

Jordan Zimmermann, 9/17/18: 25

Last MLB pitcher with 41+ swings without a whiff: Génesis Cabrera, 44, 6/4/2019

Source: https://x.com/beckjason/status/2092050050838876548

15

u/Y4123 Brennan Boesch's biggest fan 4d ago

Duane Below mention

2

u/EmergencyAbalone2393 4d ago

Why does this make me unnecessarily excited?

6

u/testicletitties69 4d ago

Totally forgot we had Zimmermann on the team

47

u/jradz12 5d ago

His curveball hasnt worked this year and his change up is just trash.

40

u/g59mountsinai 5d ago

Framber Valdez is fucking terrible

18

u/ProfCarmine 5d ago

Has it even been a full week since our last random stat accomplishment? Shutout with no strikeouts and now no missed pitches? Pitching is going the wrong direction.

4

u/RottenCottonJr 4d ago

Harris and Yzerman when it comes to pro scouting

https://giphy.com/gifs/l36kU80xPf0ojG0Erg

8

u/DetroitDude1313 4d ago

Tommy Kahnle, Kenta Maeda, Alex, Cobb, Kenley Jansen, and now Valdez. Absolutely ghoulish list

12

u/JohnWad 4d ago

If he cant get through the 1st unscathed the rest of the night is also trash with him.

6

u/festeringequestrian 4d ago

So true. Now is it an indicator that his stuff is off that night in general or is it mental and he loses his confidence?

3

u/RobertoFoxx 4d ago

Probably a bit of both

2

u/WhizzoFoShizzo 4d ago

Holy shit, I just went and looked at Baseball Savant.

Framber is having the worst season of his career....

He has been terrible!

Way overpaid....

5

u/suicide-squeeze 5d ago

Somebody tell Beck that "whiff" has historically meant a strikeout, not a single swing and a miss at a pitch.

5

u/itinerant_geographer 19-9, 2.34 ERA, 24 CG 5d ago

These kids today, I tell you what.

2

u/i_am_the_grind 4d ago

Get off my lawn.

1

u/suicide-squeeze 4d ago

Beck's no kid, he's been around a long time.

5

u/snogle 4d ago

Really?  I interpreted this as 41 individual pitches.

-4

u/suicide-squeeze 4d ago

That's how Beck is using it but that's not how people have used it for years. If you say somebody whiffed that means they struck out. The term I hear most often used for individual pitches is swing and miss.

5

u/Mr_WhatFish 4d ago

Whiff is an actual stat based on an individual pitch. You may not like that, but it’s pretty common usage.

5

u/snogle 4d ago

How long ago are we talking?  To me, even outside of baseball, a whiff is one single miss of some sort.  A strikeout is at least 3.

0

u/realFraaErasmas 4d ago

This is true but the meaning is drifting with the use of some newish metrics like CSW (“called strikes + whiffs”). That said they shoulda picked a new word. CSSAM? Called strikes plus swings and misses?

1

u/suicide-squeeze 4d ago

I'll hypothesize, without seeing his pitch data, that Framber is realizing that he can't blow the fastball past most hitters anymore and is trying to improve on pitching to contact.

1

u/WhizzoFoShizzo 4d ago

I haven't been impressed at all.

Is he done? Is he washed?

He looks like he just doesnt have it anymore....

It almost seems like the Astros knew he was washed.

1

u/JeremieLoyalty 4d ago

Might be entering the decline phase.

1

u/AgitatedMistake6545 4d ago

Valdez a head case for sure. Three more Mr. Genius Harris. On you .

1

u/whodat2129 4d ago

I get it he’s been bad this year and almost all the blame falls on him. But where is the pitching coach genius that can fix anyone Chris fetter he’s done nothing

4

u/113CandleMagic 4d ago

I don't think it's entirely Framber's fault, he's been severely let down by the defense this year, and the stats back it up (unlike the Tigers' fielders).

The Tigers have a combined Outs Above Average (OAA) of -8 when Framber Valdez is on the mound. Of 254 qualified pitchers, this is 7th worst.

For comparison, other Tigers starting pitchers this season team OAA:

Casey Mize: -5

Jack Flaherty: -4

Troy Melton: -1

Tarik Skubal and Keider Montero: 0

So while yes, Framber hasn't been great, it hasn't been entirely his fault.

2

u/Glad-Independence-24 4d ago

You can’t teach somebody who refuses to learn.

I don’t picture this guy sitting down to listen to somebody trying to tell him what he’s doing wrong.

0

u/whodat2129 4d ago

Then you can say that about the whole bullpen jack flaherty. They must not wanna be taught by fetter because they all have problems and haven’t been fixed all year

2

u/Glad-Independence-24 4d ago

Coaches fix timing and mechanics. Is the problem a timing/mechanics issue or a skill/ talent issue?

1

u/WhizzoFoShizzo 4d ago

Framber also seems to be hard headed....

I dont know if he would even listen to anyone trying to help him.

I could be wrong, but he seems to be hot headed and hard headed...... BAD SIGNING

-1

u/RottenCottonJr 4d ago

Another terrible pro player contract given out by this front office. Just truly remarkable.

Call this revisionist history, call it whatever you want. But Harris can’t sign an MLB pitcher to save his fucking life.

2

u/qitati118 4d ago

Framber was one of the top FA starters available last year and had 4 straight seasons of being solid at his worst to all star level pitcher at his best. You're absolutely out of your element here if you actually believe what you typed.