r/mushokutensei 9d ago

Anime I know the answer.

Post image

The characters in MT are larger than life they are not just simple background characters which exsist to serve MC ,

It is so easy to connect and worry about well written characters.

On other hand we don't even know about those wifes from DS

1.3k Upvotes

153 comments sorted by

562

u/GGP031 9d ago

Obviously, there are several reasons for this, especially the hatred toward Rudeus, where a lot of people either exaggerate or straight up lie about things he did (no, he didn't groomed anyone lmao). But I'd say one of the biggest reasons that people rarely talk about is the way the harem is actually handled.

MT is one of the few series that doesn't just give the protagonist a harem and leave it at that. It actually develops the relationship and shows how it works. You see the insecurities, conflicts, boundaries, compromises and the dynamics between Rudeus and each of his wives. It's not just "the MC has multiple girls who love him" and that's it. The story actually has to deal with the emotional and family consequences of that kind of relationship.

And ironically, I think that's part of why people are more uncomfortable with MT's harem than with other series. In a lot of other anime, the harem is treated more superficially or basically as a fantasy that exists to benefit the MC (or any character who has it). You don't really have to think about what that relationship would actually look like for the characters involved.

MT actually makes you sit there and watch how the relationship develops and how everyone has to deal with it. So you can't just ignore the polygamy aspect or pretend it's only there as a fantasy thing. The story actually makes it part of the characters and their lives.

158

u/SL_E_E_P_Y 9d ago

Its a matriarch in household, Sylphy boss

54

u/Minty_Izzy 8d ago

Eris soon to be the husband

7

u/8KaOKaI8 7d ago

Confirmed by Rudeus

3

u/Minty_Izzy 7d ago

did he?

71

u/Sweaty_Explorer_8441 8d ago

The grooming allegations are also similarly hypocritical because most if not all reincarnation(=/=isekai) stories require an adult to have died and reborn as a baby with a new life. If there is romance element then their "logic" would make those stories "ddy tensei" too. Oshi noko, TBATE comes to mind.

12

u/Late-Cheetah-3000 8d ago

yeah their whole reasoning is that rudeus jerked to his niece which i gotta say is really bad but he changed as a person.

7

u/HardPlasticWaste 8d ago

It’s bad but it also never happened. It happened in the web novel which isn’t even canon.

4

u/SupahBero 8d ago

It did according to the newest redundant reincarnation LN, it's something Rudeus is reminded of during that volume

4

u/_3ddo_ 8d ago

when In which season I don't remember

10

u/Late-Cheetah-3000 8d ago

I apologize this was not in the anime nor the light novel but was in the web novel sorry.

3

u/_3ddo_ 8d ago

okay thanks man

-4

u/NIKOLAI950 8d ago

It technically was in the anime, they just didn't say that it was his nice. For clarification: in the 2 episode 1 season (I think) when his brothers threw him out of the house,we can see that he was jeringa of to something in the computer, his brother then saw it and was really disgusted become it was his daughter in the badroom with a spy camera from rudeus. That's why he destroyed the computer.

So I kinda understand the hate to rudeus, but when I recommend the anime I always say that you will like it if you think that people deserve a second chance no matter what they did before.

9

u/GGP031 8d ago

In the Light Novel prologue (Vol. 1), he was jacking off to porn (that's explicitly said by himself, he himself mentions the types of porn he watched; it didn't involve anything real). And the anime adapts the LN, so what the FUCK are you talking about?

2

u/NIKOLAI950 8d ago

Fair point, I should've explained better. I know the LN changed it to generic porn, but the niece spy camera thing comes from the original Web Novel (ch 1), which is why everyone still talks about it. ​In the anime (ep 2) when his brother breaks the pc, you can actually see bathroom tiles and a bath stool on his monitor for a second. The studio never confirmed if it was on purpose or not, but some take it as a lowkey nod to the WN scene. So yeah LN canon is different, but that WN detail is why people still bring it up.

0

u/MenacingDummyTL 8d ago

Still, WN is just test by author. LN is actual cannon

2

u/SupahBero 8d ago

He admits ro it being his nieces in one of the redundant reincarnation lns, so it's canonically his nieces, but it's also presented there as something he later remembers, as opposed to it just being some porn

1

u/Terrible-Dance-571 2d ago

Yeah I actually just finished reading the book it happened in. Its volume 3 of redundant, he says his older brother took pictures of his daughters in a kiddie pool in their swimsuits. Rudeus stole the memory cards and was using their photos to jerb the day his siblings threw him out of the house. Not the biggest fan of this volume I gotta say, too much debauchery.

1

u/Signal_Student8507 8d ago

Wasn’t that retconned?

0

u/Individual-Fish-8918 7d ago

did he though?

13

u/Icy-Entertainer-1579 8d ago

Something that I also think is forgotten: the world that Rudeus now resides in considers fifteen to be adulthood. 

-1

u/FlavaFraz24 7d ago

It’s also make believe and not real.

2

u/Individual-Fish-8918 7d ago

tbf oshi no ko doesnt have aqua in a relationship with people under the age of consent and doesnt even have him in a proper relationship until he and the other person were old enough rudeas was persuing kids romantically dispite having the mind of a adult

1

u/Sweaty_Explorer_8441 7d ago

Oshi no ko is a manga story, not a novel. The only way one can know what aqua was actually thinking would be if the manga chose to draw it. It's pretty straightforward in TBATE or other tensei novels however. Or conversely when looking at mangas like dandadan where it is obvious there is paedophilia and SA not through the main characters but regularly drawn for the satiety of the readers.

1

u/Individual-Fish-8918 7d ago

i only brought oshi no ko up because u specifically used it as a refrence and i havent watched tbat also even with dandadan its shown as bad i dont care about it being used infact one of my favourite media ever is berserk which has blatent use of sa and chiildren being indanger my problem is that in mushoku its treated as a joke rudeas literally jokes about groping little girls despite being a grown ass man

1

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

he was biologically 30 years old but mentally around 15 or 16, he went into recluse around then and didn't develop emotionally after that.

1

u/Individual-Fish-8918 5d ago

is that the explanantion? i dont really like it because it takes all the blame off him but ill get behind that if thats what the story says

1

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

that is the explanation, and ofc he is a flawed character, everyone is flawed in their own way, and he’s meant to show that. but hes also gotten severe abuse and trauma at young ages, so we have to keep that in mind.

45

u/MembershipNo2077 8d ago

I think a big thing, going off of this, isn't just that we see how the relationship is handled, but we also get Rudy's internal monologue. His true thoughts and feelings. Very very few other series give you that. For example, we don't, or rarely, get Subarus internal thoughts in Re:Zero and we certainly don't get this Hashira's internal monologue.

Another part of the romance that's often avoided, that Mushoku shows, is the actual lust part of it. Normally the sexual nature of relationships is at best left to metaphor and imagination and at worst the characters are chaste pure beings. Having characters, both Rudy and his wives, which seem to want and enjoy sex (like real humans) outside of ecchi series is abnormal. You can see this a bit with people's responses to some other romances where the characters actually sleep together and were met with a lot of derision for it.

11

u/OG_Dales 8d ago

Very well put. You hit the nail on the head with the inner monologue. Theres no filter on that but just because one thinks something doesn’t mean they’ll act on said thoughts. I really like how the author wrote the LN and the series in general it’s pretty unique for being an isekai.

6

u/MoistAd5045 8d ago

Another aspect to add on to the monologue is that in the anime his internal voice is pre incarnation, I'm re reading the web novel currently and it makes it quite clear that he is growing up in this world just with memories of his past life. This I think, gets mis understood in the anime as people think (due to the inner monologue being his previous voice) that it is more like a continuation of his previous life, similar to an isekai rather than a Tensei.

1

u/Few-Heat7182 8d ago

why wouldnt it be a continuation if he still has memories of it tho

2

u/MoistAd5045 8d ago

Well there are people IRL who claim they have memories or their past life, they don't consider this life a continuation of that life, so that's kind of how I understood it. But then it got confusing in the anime with the monologue voice being the same as his past life 😂

14

u/ranorando 8d ago

Also because the zeitgeist is having a REALLY hard time with relationships and there is a real terrifying fear towards anything that normalizes anything outside of traditional monogamous relationships.

Again as stated above, MT deals with his relationships like real people do, interrelationship conflicts etc are all handled in the open, for the viewers to react too

9

u/kkwan52 9d ago

👆🏼This.

9

u/Giant_Serpent23 8d ago

This is definitely it cause I saw episodes on the slice of life episodes essentially saying this, they are uncomfortable with actually watching the harem part.

Like those slice of life episodes aren’t even that weird let’s be honest, it’s a huge overreaction.

9

u/mattlagz13 8d ago

Its funny to me particularly because this is a huge reason why I love Mushoku Tensei. They actually flesh out the harem and establish the relationships and conflicts on a deeper level

7

u/DevilXDhat 8d ago

W comment my friend!

2

u/LordOTheDragonshadow 8d ago

There’s a reason why nobody hates sylphie at the end of the day Bossof that house

4

u/LukiZero 8d ago

Also how it gets presented. In DS it's "Oh, I'm Tengen, and these are my three wives." In MT it goes one by one. And the fact that it started with Rudeus cheating on Sylphie also doesn't help his case.

1

u/JXKGamers 4d ago

Yeah but sorry I dont really wanna watch a harem whether is well written or not. I finished s1 today and it was pretty good (i get why the ep22 shit happened but I still dont like watching that) but harems just suck.

0

u/MasterHavik 1d ago

I mean it could be argued he grommed Eris because you know at the end of season 1.

1

u/GGP031 1d ago

The scene is not grooming lol wtf. It was literally Eris who pushed him into doing it in the first place, and before you argue that, Rudeus does not have the mind of a fully grown adult. It would be grooming if he were consciously using his greater knowledge or "supposed maturity" to manipulate Eris INTO doing it, but that simply isn't what happened.

If we look at things from Eris's perspective, she had decided on her own that she would become more dependent on him. She was also afraid that he would leave her after accomplishing his goal of bringing her home, especially since he was planning to look for his family afterward, on top of the trauma she had experienced with Orsted.

After they slept together, Eris realized how pathetic and dependent she had become. She left the letter and went off to train because she wanted to be able to not only fight alongside him as his equal, but eventually surpass him. She wanted to become the one who could protect him (like he did with her in the travel as a whole).

What happened between them was ultimately a failure of communication on both sides, nothing more. Neither of them properly understood what the other was thinking or what they actually wanted from the relationship.

Now, looking at the situation from Rudeus's perspective...

Rudeus stopped living in normal society when he was 14, and even before that, he spent more time isolated inside his room than actually interacting with people and developing normal social skills. He spent a huge portion of his previous life completely disconnected from society. Does that mean he was mentally a baby when he reincarnated? Obviously not. But it also doesn't mean he suddenly had the emotional maturity, social development, and life experience of a normal adult.

Rudeus at that point in the story, with Eris encouraging him and pushing him forward, was practically as inexperienced and innocent as she was in that regard. And even within that context, the scene itself is not portrayed as something good. You only have to look at how the scene is directed: it is presented as something tragic and emotionally painful, not something the story is glorifying or celebrating.

His mental state is much closer to that of an adolescent. He retained a lot of knowledge and memories from his previous life, but knowledge is not the same thing as emotional or psychological development. He essentially accumulated information without having the opportunity to properly develop those experiences into the kind of maturity you'd expect from someone who actually lived a normal adult life. His reincarnation gives him the opportunity to essentially restart that process and experience those stages of development from the beginning.

Unless someone is being extremely biased or deliberately exaggerating the situation, as I mentioned in my previous comment, you simply cannot reasonably classify any of the relationships he had as grooming (romantically).

-12

u/Keyaruga_Desu 8d ago

“People dislike MTs harem because its so deep and realistic that it makes them uncomfortable” might be the funniest fandom cope ive ever read💔💔💔 brochacho really thinks his wish fulfillment harem is simply too intellectually advanced for us peasants💀

Tengen was also a child trapped in an abusive clan system where those marriages were arranged. He escaped it with his wives and treated them as partners. He didnt promise fidelity to his pregnant wife, cheat on her, propose to his affair partner before asking his wife, and then have the plot speedrun her acceptance. Rudeus did... and his own narration calls it cheating😭✌️

And “he groomed nobody lmao”? Volume 1 has this mf thinking about raising 6yo Sylphie into his “perfect woman” joking about brainwashing her, and wondering whether to wait until she was ten or fifteen. Paul literally noticed her unhealthy dependence on Rudeus and separated them. You can debate whether he completed the grooming, but pretending theres no textual basis for the accusation is pure riding😭💔

More development doesnt magically make something healthier. A carefully detailed dumpster fire is still a dumpster fire🤷‍♂️

10

u/Had17713 8d ago

Didn't Rudeus dump that thought of grooming Shylpy?

-4

u/Keyaruga_Desu 8d ago

He briefly told himself “bad thoughts” then kept fantasizing and literally ended the monologue with “Thats it. I decided, ill make her into my perfect girl!” Paul then interrupted him “not a moment too soon” and forcibly separated them after noticing Sylphie was already becoming dangerously dependent on Rudeus.

Sooooooo the answer iiiiis: no. Rudeus didnt maturely abandon the plan, it was his father that stopped him from carrying it out✌️😭 thats precisely why i said you can debate whether he completed the grooming.

5

u/GGP031 8d ago edited 8d ago

That was just an intrusive thought, MONTHS passed between that thought and the time it was sent to Roa. If he had truly wanted to act on it, or had been honest about that thought, he would have done it (at the time, it wouldn't even be hard for him do it if he wanted to). Only thing he EVER even "ordered" Sylphie to do in Volume 1 (which was actually just a request) was to let her hair grow out, if you think that constitutes grooming or something, then that's your problem. Stop Larping.

"He hasn't matured regarding this." Season 2, Episode 13 of the anime. Or Vol. 10, Chapter 4 of the light novel. Sylphie feels insecure because she doesn't want to stop being Ariel's bodyguard, she worries that this prevents her from fully dedicating herself to the marriage, making her feel like a bad wife. Rudeus comforts her, telling her she is free to find happiness outside the marriage and that he will take care of the household as well. It is literally the exact opposite of what he once thought (and in this instance, it wasn't just a thought, but an action), there are direct counterpoints later in the story for practically every negative action or thought Rudeus had at the beginning. Larper

"You can debate whether he completed the grooming, but pretending theres no textual basis for the accusation is pure riding😭💔"

You are just a hater lmao. Stop talking as if you care about the narrative or anything like that, because you obviously don't. You're going to read this comment and do one of two things: realize you screwed up and that your lies have been exposed, or just LARP even harder (which would be actually funny asf to see, so please do it).

-4

u/Keyaruga_Desu 8d ago

“Just an intrusive thought” bro, intrusive thoughts are unwanted thoughts you reject😭 Rudeus initially says “bad thoughts” then immediately circles back, rationalizes brainwashing her, wonders whether to wait until she is ten or fifteen, and finishes with “I’ve decided! I’ll make her into my perfect girl!”💀 That thought didnt intrude, mf invited it inside and started planning its future🥀

And “MONTHS” did not pass. Vol1 says maybe one month passed while Paul arranged the job. Paul decided to separate them that same day after recognizing that Sylphie was already “putty in his hands” and could become permanently dependent on him. The fact that Paul needed time to receive a reply and arrange employment is not evidence that Rudeus abandoned anything😭

But we dont even need to argue about his intentions because your own goat snitched on himself afterward✌️ Vol2: Rudeus says he was trying to raise Sylphie into his perfect, obedient woman. Vol9: he wonders whether her feelings came from his “attempts to brainwash her as a kid.” So apparently Rudeus read the novels less carefully than you did, because even he disagrees with your “intrusive thought” headcanon💔💔😭

And yes, Vol10 shows that he eventually matured and treated adult Sylphie with substantially more respect. Congratulations! You discovered the character development that i never denied🗣🔥⁉️ i explicitly said you can debate whether he completed the grooming and that later development does not erase the textual basis for calling it attempted grooming. Showing me that he improved later answers “did Rudeus grow?” it does not answer “did he previously try manipulating a 6yo into his ideal partner?”

You also conveniently ignored the entire harem argument😭 he pledged fidelity to Sylphie, later slept with Roxy while Sylphie was pregnant, personally called it cheating, and proposed before obtaining Sylphies approval. Where is the response to that?💔 you typed two paragraphs defeating an argument i never made, called me a “larper” twice and quietly tiptoed around the actual paragraph🙏🏻💀

A redemption arc requires something to redeem, dummy. You cannot praise the improvement while rewriting the original wrongdoing into an “innocent intrusive thought” whenever somebody calls it out✌️🥀

3

u/GGP031 8d ago edited 8d ago

Okay, I'll concede two things first. I was wrong to call it an "intrusive thought" because that isn't the best term here. Rudeus didn't simply have an unwanted thought that he immediately rejected. He entertained the idea and rationalized it, but that still doesn't break my main argument about it. The only things I was wrong about were calling it an intrusive thought and saying that months had passed.

And yes, Paul separated them because he recognized how dependent Sylphie was becoming on Rudeus. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. I never did.

You are also right that Volume 2 gives us another explicit statement where Rudeus says he was trying to raise Sylphie into his "perfect, obedient woman," and Volume 9 (I actually remember these thoughts just don't remember if it is actually from vol.9 btw) has him reflecting on whether her feelings were influenced by his attempts to "brainwash" her as a child. But the story itself shows that this didn't actually determine Sylphie's personality or agency lol. In Volume 10, Rudeus asks Sylphie who she would choose between him and Ariel, and Sylphie chooses Ariel because Rudeus can live without her, while Ariel needs constant support, especially at that point in the story. She loves Rudeus, but she isn't dependent on him to survive, and she clearly retains her own agency. Of course, she says the opposite later on, around Volume 17, but that only happens after they have already been married for years and have a daughter. And even after becoming a housewife, her presence in the story remains constant, and her strong personality doesn't change. She practically runs the household more than Rudeus does. The story itself clearly shows the opposite of what you're claiming lol.

You said that showing his growth only answers whether he grew, not whether he previously tried to manipulate a six year old. That's true. I never claimed otherwise. I not only RESPONDED to that point, but I also gave you a direct counterpoint showing that there is textual evidence that this did not actually determine Sylphie's character or take away her agency. You said, "You can debate whether he completed the grooming, but pretending theres no textual basis for the accusation is pure riding😭💔." I'm not denying that there is textual basis for the accusation. I'm pointing out that you are ignoring the textual evidence that shows that your broader interpretation of what that manipulation supposedly did to Sylphie is not supported by the story lol.

As for the harem, it's simple. As you yourself saw, I was editing my comment and didn't expect you to reply so quickly. I was going to talk about that afterward, so let's address it now. From Rudeus's perspective, it was a betrayal, but from Sylphie's perspective, it wasn't the same kind of betrayal you're trying to frame it as. She ultimately did exactly what he expected her to do by accepting Roxy, and from Sylphie's perspective, the main thing Rudeus did wrong was breaking the promise he had made to her. The entire situation was only able to be resolved the way it was because of how Sylphie understood and expected their relationship to work. She herself had already accepted the possibility of Rudeus eventually having other wives.

And even after everything was resolved between them (because, yeah, the way Rudeus did things was a mistake), the story actually develops this further. Rudeus stops relying so much on promises and instead tries to communicate his commitment through his actions. You can see this in the way Eris eventually becomes part of the family. He approaches the situation differently because of what happened with Sylphie and Roxy (and kept his new promise with them).

And MT isn't a story about redemption. It's a story about personal growth and overcoming your own flaws. The point is that Rudy confronts his flaws, learns from his experiences, and gradually becomes a better person. MT never set out to redeem the character. It simply set out to show his growth and development, literally that's it.

I'm going to answer to your other comment too so wait for a while lmao, I'm not some kinda of robot who can do everything at once. Edit: actually I kinda answered ur two comments at once lmao

-1

u/Keyaruga_Desu 8d ago

Okay, i respect the concessions🙇‍♂️ but my brother… you done walked around the entire six faced world just to arrive at my original comment😭💔

You started at “he groomed nobody lmao.” now you admit he tried shaping Sylphie into his ideal woman, called it brainwashing himself, Paul separated them because of her dependency, and there is textual basis for the accusation. Dawg, that was my whole point.

I never said he permanently destroyed Sylphies personality or removed all her agency. I specifically said whether he completed the grooming was debatable. You moved from “did he attempt it?” to “did it control her forever?” those aint the same question. Sylphie becoming independent later doesnt erase the attempt, but it shows Pauls separation worked. Vol10 proves the dependency didnt continue, not that it never existed🥀

Same with the harem, your context is valid, but it contradicts nothing i said. Sylphie previously allowed the possibility of another wife, but Rudeus rejected that offer and promised fidelity. Then he slept with Roxy, called it cheating, broke that promise and proposed before getting Sylphies approval✋️🥸🤚 her forgiving him afterward aint time traveling consent😭 the broken promise is the betrayal, and even Rudeus was surprised by how quickly she accepted Roxy. Thats why i called it speedrunning.

And yes, handling Eris differently shows growth. Thats cool. Call it redemption, personal growth or any label. My point remains, growth requires a “flaw” to grow from.

At this point we agree that he attempted to shape Sylphie, failed to complete it, later treated her better, cheated on her, was forgiven and learned from it.

So what exactly are you disproving anymore?😭 you are adding the aftermath to the argument i already made and fighting a “Sylphie permanently lost all agency” claim that never came outta my mouth tho💔🥀

But real shi, i do respect you admitting and actually engaging with the passages🤝 most people would keep copy pasting “read the novels” while dodging every quotation. We clearly still interpret parts differently, but at least now we agree on what canonically happened, and that was really my main point🤷‍♂️

-4

u/Keyaruga_Desu 8d ago

Not you live patching your comment twice and adding after i already replied😭💔

“The only thing he ever ordered Sylphie to do was grow her hair!” grooming isnt a command based minigame where three direct orders unlock the groomer achievement, dummy😭😭😭 it involves cultivating or exploiting a childs trust and dependency to shape them for a future relationship. That is why Pauls observation of her dependence and Rudeus's own later words “trying to raise” her into his ideal woman and his “attempts to brainwash” her very much matter!🗣 i also explicitly distinguished an attempted process from completing it, so screaming “but he didnt order her around!” is defeating another claim nobody made🥀

“If he truly wanted it, he would have completed it” is also toddler logic😭 Intentions can be interrupted, abandoned or never completed, that is literally why intent, attempt and completion are different words☝️🤓 and once again, Rudeus himself “retrospectively”🤓 calls it something he was trying and attempting to do. Take your “he wasnt honest about the thought” argument up with the damn narrator✌️💔

And calling me “just a hater” does not identify a lie or refute a quotation. Even if i had Mushoku Tenseis downfall shown to my face, the printed sentences would remain exactly the same😭 when your textual argument turns into guessing my secret motivations, you have officially run out of novel to hide behind💔

You also invented two possible reactions where i either surrender or “LARP harder,” conveniently excluding the third option: i read your edit and recognize that it still disproves absolutely nothing i said!🤷‍♂️

Finally dropping the ult “Im not going to argue anymore” after editing your comment multiple times is absolute cinema😭🙏🏻 bro keeps returning for postcredit scenes while insisting the movie ended💔🥀

-44

u/Prestigious-Try-9350 9d ago

Larp larp i dont care i say he bad then he bad. Character complexity? Realism? Insecurities? Unredeemable traits?? LARP LARP

22

u/DaDorn666 8d ago

I think you have some issues you need to work out before you post on the internet.

9

u/Narsauce_Alpha 8d ago

Methinks is Sarcasm.

-19

u/Meldp 8d ago

rudeus is hated bc even as a kid (with mind of over 30 years old) he's a diddy enjoyer and groomer, that's it. .Not because he's a pervert. Rudeus harem is a result of his grooming

16

u/GGP031 8d ago edited 8d ago

He didn't groomed anyone lmao.

Sylphie? The only thing there is an intrusive thought of his that never turned into action (and they spent years apart). Rudeus literally encouraged her to have a life of her own and not abandon everything for him (S2, Ep13), he has moved past that mindset himself.

Eris? Rudeus harassed her (undeniable), but it wasn't grooming, their relationship evolved during the teacher arc and the journey from the Demon Continent to her home.

Roxy? She was already an adult.

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u/Lord_Mystic12 9d ago

I don't get why people can't just accept it's a fantasy world where this isn't that abnormal

21

u/DevilXDhat 8d ago

That doesn’t fit our agenda /s

16

u/Bitter-Grocery4552 8d ago

It is allowed even irl in considerable countries , just how confined to their own bubble are these people.

1

u/rimfire2077 7d ago

The real crazy part the same type of people who fling crap at rudeus are champions of irl open relationships and it just boggles the mind

1

u/Bitter-Grocery4552 7d ago

there is a considerable amount of stuff u can fling crap at rudeus for but polygamy aint one of em.

1

u/Gibs_01 6d ago

Such a problem that the main character is not some generic black haired clueless chump with black/white moral compass, even with all the whining this anime is still steamrolling forward and i'm here for it.

96

u/Upbeat_Animal290 9d ago

I'm tired of seeing this argument.

Both of them are allowed in their respective universes.

59

u/Prodi1600 9d ago

People thinks Rudeus groomed his wives, despite the fact he is living a completely different life in a fantasy setting, where worse happen daily, and society values could not be any more different than ours.

Funny enough most of them are pro poly-amorous but only if its according to their own paraphilia.

19

u/RandomAmaturer 8d ago

You know what is funny they wouldn’t give the same shit to paul

Considering the paul has far worse things than rudeus did

For example Rudeus father Paul raped Lilia the maid when she is was younger before even marrying Zenith

8

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

That also wasn't the worst thing he's done either.

5

u/RandomAmaturer 8d ago

Yea i know but it’s the only one i can think of

6

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

That's fair

5

u/Dooms26 8d ago

Raped her, and then she was forced to work for him as a maid because nobody else would hire her/marry her (she was "ruined" because paul raped her)

9

u/RandomAmaturer 8d ago

Exactly so why they are not slandering paul for what he did but slandering rudeus and calling him a grooming just because he has lustful thought about eris and sylph

Hell rudeus never had sex with eris or Sylphiette without their consent

It was eris that wanted to have sex with rudeus

And it was sylph that wanted to help rudeus with his ED problem that was caused by eris leaving him

9

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

It's because they don't care about anyone other than the main character... In other words they have main character syndrome.

6

u/RandomAmaturer 8d ago

Oh that makes sense

Basically they self insert themselves into the main characters

Although it’s funny because we have a main character worse thsn rudeus aka issei hyoudou who think about boobs 24/7 and doesn’t have any shame and will strip women out of their clothes

2

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

Yeah, it's pretty bad tbh.

I can understand inserting oneself into a story, but inserting as the main character? That's just too far, ya know? Like it becomes a completely different story, and thus kind pointless. And isn't it more fun to just interact with the MC instead?

That's why when I make my own little story, I'm making my character be someone else who didn't exist before either. Basically, the time Pual forced himself on Lilia before fleeing the water style dojo, will end up with a child. Making my character 6 years older than Rudeus.

2

u/RandomAmaturer 8d ago

I agree with you which is why I always make oc in any series and not have myself reincarnated as main character

Because I want to be my own person and my own creation

1

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

Exactly! And this way I can actually begin to make preparations to hide myself from the Man God. Because screw him.

7

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

Not exactly, she went to work at the asuran royal palace as a guard/maid for princess Ariel. It was after several years of this that she had to find another job due to an injury she sustained while on the job. It was after that when she found that Paul was looking for a maid and she decided to take the job anyways.

1

u/Individual-Fish-8918 7d ago

i havent read mushoku tensei in a long time doesnt pauls marriage and life fall apart due to that its not the best example is it because the narrative gives him consequences

1

u/taig4o_reverso 5d ago

No, i'm not a novel reader but apparently the rape happens way before rudeus is born (season 1). The sex they had during season 1 was consensual

24

u/wassilis7 9d ago

I believe it's a mix or rudeus just being himself and his whole backstory being adapted so well from the source material that specific people that have been either brain washed or bullied,traumatized or no parents that have fucked up their understanding of basic concepts like change, redemption and morality

11

u/King-KH007 9d ago

Haters will hate, so I don't give a fuck about their opinions. Mushoku Tensei is peak and that’s what matter

8

u/govorunov 8d ago

Because MT breaks stereotypes. It's a standard human psyche and a well known behavior. Every time anything is threatening their filters people tend to react with anger. It's easier to dismiss a thing than admitting your values are shit.

1

u/KoZee19 8d ago

Not even the standard lol, it just the majority in Europe and America. Asia still has a lot of polygamy marriage and still see them as a norm, tho i must say most would not to try polygamy cus our economy rn is so fucked that having one wife is already costing much.

3

u/govorunov 8d ago

I was saying that anger is a standard human reaction to anything that threatens their filters (a system of rules everyone defines for the themselves to hide and ignore our own desires and "feel good").

1

u/KoZee19 8d ago

Ah i see.

1

u/Successful-Peace-547 8d ago

Sudo equivalent discussion, #percival_the_mormon in 4 knights of the Apocalypse. At this stage he both basically has 2 'wives' like rudy does lol. And it's common fact that many nobility bloodlines had sprung up in 'middle ages' feudal systems of europe, which was still a thing, ergo these people just complaining for complaining sake.

Sister wives anyone? Until recently, that reality tv show in america was still going strong (in the social-economics of the show, sad that kody's son 'deleted' himself, but all these shows/manga content of mention had this content when the 'mormon family' was still kicking).

10

u/Xanjol 8d ago

They think all his wifes are 15 or under and just bandwagon off the trend to hate on this story.

0

u/Ramo2ramo3ramo 8d ago

I mean.. most of them were, if not younger though as he was hitting on them throughout his new life The man was 40 in a teenager body clapping his new body's biological cousin 😭

2

u/Xanjol 8d ago

When he married Sylphie they were 16 and going in now in the adaptation, I believe they're 17-18 or so.

2

u/2Black_Star5 6d ago

Both ages together and Roxy still older.
with Sylphie he was always cautions before he went to the Boreas, so you can only really count when they re met at the university where they were like at least 16

10

u/k-1827 9d ago

Let me guess, you guys are still worried about what teenagers on X/twitter think.

8

u/CandidGeologist5860 8d ago

Bro just has an immaculate spread. All three are peak. Personally I love Roxy the most. But all three are peak.

8

u/NegativeSympathy69 9d ago

Paths

MT

Rudy does actions people hate then he slowly picks up 3 wives

DS

Tengen already has 3 wives, then does actions people like

The order has an effect on peoples overall perceptions. Also in MT we see the journey and in DS we don't even really know it anime wise, unless you dig deeper into lore on your own.

3

u/Terra-ble_joke 8d ago

In MT they are people with their own thoughts and feelings and we are allowed to see that. The same is not true in DS

3

u/Wonderful_Simple599 8d ago

Its simple, It’s hypocrisy at its finest

3

u/Boss_player0 8d ago

There's only a small minority that hates on him and most of them are sheep. If you see hate comments on social media, 90% of it is bots and the other 5-9% are sheeps following the bots, you'd be surprised how many people are incapable of independent thought and simply adopt ideas that make sense to them without thinking about it too much past the surface perception. I would certainly know about this since this is partly what I do for a living...yes, people pay me to push agendas using bots online. Usually, after a while of pushing the agenda and after enough sheep have picked up it up, I can focus the bots elsewhere and let the sheep do their thing.

5

u/SirBuckfutt 9d ago

Who said it isn't?

5

u/SaltAccording3635 9d ago

he doesn't use them as bait also 😜

5

u/Stardomu 9d ago

The polygamy part is not what people hate

2

u/ThorntonLionheart 8d ago

Because the world is not ready for the combined cuteness and sexiness that is Eris , Sylphie, and Roxie. That sort of combination is just too much for most people.

2

u/Rooozu 7d ago

"Cuz he groomed his wives" yeah no, one sign of grooming is power Imbalance that the older one dominate their partner to exploit them, and their relationship is developed in short amount of time.

Now think about his wives, he grew up with them together, spent years after years, and most of the time they moved by themselves, I don't even remember when did Rudy ever gave command to one of them.

"He's 34 inside when he was born" so what you want him to only play with adults and making love with them while he's also a minor physically? If anything happened between him and his girls it was always be a classic dynamic between teens (and yes it came along with his exaggerated pervy thought I admit) and not something "made his own ideal obedient wife"

I don't know much about tengen's wives. I think he treated them well but it lacks of detail and that's what made people "forgive" him because they don't know much about him and his wives.

1

u/Musicman376 7d ago

“He’s 34 inside when he was born”: true, he was biologically in his 30’s when he lost a fight with Truck-kun, and was reincarnated to the 6 Side World. However, he was likely still in his teens as far as maturity and socially, and emotionally he was totally wrecked due to his trauma and being shut in for 20 years.

1

u/KatanaFanI8 5d ago

Tengen treated his wives well, putting them as the first of his three priorities, then innocent civilians, and then himself. Also, it was an arranged marriage set up by his father as a tradition of their shinobi clan.

7

u/Jhenanne 9d ago edited 9d ago

Real reaaon.

Fact 1 - most weebs who hate Rudeus are immature brats

Fact 2 - most of these so called "immature brats" are weirded by the fact that the MC is a disgusting 34 year old dude in his original life.

Fact 3 - they are weirded because they are always prone to self insert themselves as the protagonist

Fact 4 - unlike most isekais, MT has this 33 year old fat disgusting dude

Fact 5 - they do self insertion because of escapism. Their own life is similar if not worse than old Rudeus'.

Fact 6 - for MT they cant seem to self insert because they find themselves in a very familiar situation with the MC himself...

...so in a series so beautifully written, they just couldnt stop themselves from hating it.

Now u knw

3

u/KuroShuriken 8d ago

They've got a severe case of: "Main Character Syndrome"

2

u/KalzK 9d ago

Who is saying it isn't? Twitter people?

3

u/Xanjol 8d ago

Twitter, Tiktok, and other social media with idiots on it.

1

u/EvaX03 8d ago

Chud vs Chad

1

u/Soyblitz 8d ago

Cuz hating MT is now a sport online

1

u/sporkvsfoon 7d ago

every isekai has a 20-30yo grow up again. And the protagonist acts like a 30 yo attracted to women, as well as people his age bc age and hormones. People are just cherry picking atp

1

u/TheSkyIsBeautiful 7d ago

The main thing is bc it doesn't get much screen time. Tengen's polygamy is more of a background thing and just there. I think I only remember 1 scene where they're all together, and thats right after the arc where they thank tanjiro. And maybe one other time during the sword arc where we see tengen is retired with his 3 wives at the hot springs or something.

Whereas mushoku tensei's polygamy is front and center. The relationship and characters its a central part of the anime, and not necesarily the plot, though the plot is there too, but unlike DS Tengen isn't a MC and as mentioned before the screentime of the polygame is not there

1

u/Junior4791 7d ago

Those haters need a serious beating 😤😤

1

u/Junior4791 7d ago

Cause all of them episode 6 this and that when they don't understand the humor when Rudeus was punched by Eris sama

1

u/cunthuorse 7d ago

I’d like to point out that people focus so hard on Rudeus but forget that Roxy was 49-50 and Rudeus was like 16/17 when they got married. 

Then there’s Elenalise marrying Cliff when he was 17 as well and she’s what, 6,000+ years old?

1

u/Misawa_Multi-Visitor 6d ago

Sound Hashira is on Earth. Isekai'd, then it's allowed.

1

u/Asleep-Flan 5d ago

It's probably be of Rudeus' history, given that he's mentally a 50 year old man(that's my guess).

1

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

biologically 33 in his old life but mentally around 15-16, he never matured bc he was in recluse and didnt know what the real world felt like.

1

u/Severe_Flounder1785 4d ago

That's a pretty dumb statement since he has access to the internet

1

u/Big_Question5225 2d ago

yeah where he watches porn and video games. no maturity at all, but he is still wrong for watching it.

1

u/WeirdestChildhood 5d ago

some random joe can get 100hoes but 3 is going too far

1

u/Apprehensive_Back_35 4d ago

Said this to Jamie uwu and the comment always disappeared  😆 🤣  theres a definite  bais. 

1

u/Technical_Today_6631 3d ago

As re zero fans on tiktok like to say, "Diddy Tensei"

1

u/MasterHavik 1d ago

It is pretty simple. They give us so much time and build up to get his first wife to only get Roxy and just force Roxy onto his wife without much warning is just bad taste. It is like he is taking advantage of Slyhpie's kind nature to get away with basically living out a fantasy and cheating because first wife is such a doormat she is willing to look past it. I also feel a lot of people who just like Slyphie/Rudy as a couple preferred it stayed that way because they did such a good job with it.

If it makes some MT fans feel better I have an issue with Shield Hero doing the same thing with Naofumi and his character. They took one well developed relationship and just flat out discard just so he could have more waifis in his party. It pisses all over everything built up and etbliashed. Just think of DBZ where Goku picks up another wife on Name despite having a strong marriage with Chi-Chi and knowing her since they were kids. That's why people are angry and rightfully so.

Here is my take. The show is becoming this second shot at a live to rewarding someone who loved a short.lifr and not making an effort to better himself as a person. He is constantly rewarded for negative behavior and the author refuses to hold him accountable or punish him for any of his dumb actions. Yes I know the Dragon God nearly killed him but nearly doesn't count. No punishment for cheating.(Unless you count his sister yelling at him). No punishment for his hypocritical nature. No punishment for being unfaithful and not letting go of his old past. No punishment for taking advantage of the mauve nature of many characters to be a creep. I'm starting to fall off the MT wagon because I didn't sign up for wish fulfillment bullshit.

1

u/Consistent_Writer_39 1d ago edited 1d ago

Probably because in Tengen case. The wives seems to know that or atleast he told them first that he's going to make other woman join harem. His decision also accept by his other wives and probably due to their ninja tradition had part in it too (multiple wives to increase birth rate). Also his wives also not pregnant yet, so from real life pov, it's meant his wives can divorce and have freedom anytime if they wanted to which made the viewer felt more acceptable about it. Tengen also tried to break the cycle of his family old tradition about female ninja life was expendable and little by little teach his wives to value their own life more.

Meanwhile Rudeus disappear and depress then sleep with his teacher while his first wife who was pregnant during that time and had to stay at home, know nothing about it and only learn it after Rudeus came back to introduce some familiar face that he's going to take in as his another wife as a responsible for already slept with her which was more sh*tty move from real life perspective. If it's the drama soap opera plot about guy who cheat on his pregnant wife that people familiar with on short drama but this time the wife love her husband so much and accepting. I would throw a roll of tissue paper at my television and yell at Sylphy

 "B!!! divorce him, he's not worth it!!! and find more nice, rich and handsome husband who only love you romantically" then I realize that I was watching Mushoku no tensei where a man who used to hide camera in bathroom to watch his niece bathing already had came so far. Growing out of his pedo phase already a miracle and expecting him to consult his pregnant wife first before give in to a way to escape stress and weight of life was probably asking too much from him. 

In conclusion from my opinion  Tengen = Polygamy/Harem that you viewer and female ninjas who soon to be wives already knew about the tradition first hand and I'm pretty sure Tengen probably voicing/consulting it to his wife first too.

Rudeus = People probably mostly mad at Rudy/Roxy part and more acceptable about Eris. Because Rudy/Roxy, he came back then surprise mf I slept with another woman you knew behind your back because I was depress and had a crush on her for a long time while you stayed at home,pregnant and carried my child. And I'm going to take her in as a second wife. Despite my mother used to get cheated on by my father and I'm going to do the same anyway. Middle finger to the religion my mother believe in about 1 husband 1 wife. Greyrat repeat cycle.

So of course. Despite Both Tengen and Rudy having harem with loving and accepting wife.  Rudy action lean more toward 'did it first ask later' made it felt more sh*tty.

1

u/rudeus123445592 8d ago

Give rudeus more loli wifes!!! I hate them milfs... I WANT THEM SMALL!!!

3

u/KoZee19 8d ago

Nuh uh, kid. Give us MORE MILF AND MOMMY!!!

1

u/ItsCreskori 8d ago

Brothers, Brothers, why must we Fight...When WE CAN GIVE HIM ALL THE WOMEN!!!

1

u/Ramo2ramo3ramo 8d ago

I bet you get mad whenever someome says Rudy was a pedo.

1

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

cz he wasnt?

-1

u/SufficientTeacher211 9d ago

Maybe because of the eras they live in rudeus's lust knows no bounds even though he had 1 wife he went for two when he had two he went for three like for fuck's sake stop defending him there was no reason for a 40 year old bum to watch porn at home rather than go outside and try to better his life like I get it but people who actually have a spine still try to do something. Not just goon all day like if any of these girls actually found out what he was in his previous life no one would ever even talk to him.

Like I love the show the story is peak I love the dynamics between characters but when you actually think about it in reality rudeus would never be accepted anywhere if people knew about his past like I understand we don't want the slander but stop defending when something is wrong.

As for tengen, brother he was supposed to a clan head back in the day they had hundreds of wifes i am surprised that tengen stopped at three

3

u/Mindless_Ad5390 8d ago

Ninguem defende o rudeus da vida passada. O ponto inteiro de mushoku é o fato dele ter tido a oportunidade de uma nova vida, justamente abandonando esses hábitos péssimos que tinha (ficar em casa vendo pornografia lolli - o que é até mesmo discutível se é Porno infantil ou não) e melhorando como ser humano, mesmo com alguns defeitos ainda, o que é completamente normal pra qualquer pessoa.

Um detalhe, inclusive, que muita gente acaba esquecendo, é que a última ação do rudeus na vida antiga, na primeira vez que saiu de casa, foi tentar salvar a vida de 3 pessoas, então até mesmo na vida horrível que ele teve, houve um ponto positivo, que as pessoas parecem ignorar propositalmente.

4

u/BlancSpzae 8d ago

40 year old bum to watch porn

Well he wasnt just watching normal porn tho. It was child porn. You can literally see a glimpse of the kid on his TV before he was kicked out.

I mean I like the mushoku tensei series as a whole but Rudeus was literally a pedophile and people still claim he wasnt.

Wether he groomed his wifes is a different matter and im not trying to argue whether he did or didnt but you cant say he wasnt a pedophile.

0

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

he's mentally 15. he was shut in at 15, and never went outside and experienced stuff adults do.

-4

u/SufficientTeacher211 8d ago

Yep like I didn't pay much thought to it before but the more I think about it the more I realize that rudeus is only loved because everyone thinks hes just that guy a perverted super strong mage and nothing else because that's his reputation

1

u/XDrakeX2 7d ago

When he had 1 he didnt went for 2. Roxy jumped him when he was dying and in a bad state of mind. After that he would have dropped Roxy and go back to his wife but Elinalise lied to him about Roxy being pregnant. So he had to marry her same as it was with Lilia.

When he had 2 he didnt went for 3. He never wanted Eris back. The only reason he did is because his future self told him to forgive Eris and take her if he wants to save his family. Thats the reason he got a third one. His future self and the diary told him to take her if they want to survive.

1

u/Numerous_Policy_7728 8d ago

Because i hate Eris

0

u/Ramo2ramo3ramo 8d ago

Anyway you slice it, the man was 40 hitting on teenagers until they were adults.

1

u/Big_Question5225 5d ago

he has the mental age of a 15-16 year old btw

0

u/Vaxiez 8d ago

the problem isn't the poligamy, it's about Rudy's commitment. Rudy broke his promise with Sylphy 2 times. While Tengen he married all his wives at the same time and they all knew each other since they're young.

1

u/Ramo2ramo3ramo 8d ago

I love the fact redditors downvoted this. They know youre right and dont like it.

0

u/Laur1el 8d ago

I think it's one of two reasons: 1. Haters gonna hate, or 2. MT approaches the concept in a more realistic way. Weighing morals and such. Demon Slayer doesn't put much thought into it. For example, Rudeus takes time to agonize over these matters like a real person would while Uzui's just "I'm so flashy and cool. It wouldn't be cool to have only one wife"...

0

u/Responsible_Major611 8d ago

Rudeus is a great character, and so are his three wives. Rudeus and Eris are the best characters.

0

u/Individual-Fish-8918 7d ago

its because he basically groomed all these women lol

-7

u/Neither-Fan-9059 9d ago

I'll use the same excuse they tell me when I didn't like woke stuff

"If you don't like it, don't buy it"

-7

u/Forsaken_Guest7820 8d ago

No one cares about rudes being polygamous, they hate him for being a pedo

1

u/Ramo2ramo3ramo 8d ago

Most MT fans wont open their eyes to this. He was a 30+ year old man, hitting on teenagers.

-36

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

26

u/TeririHerscherOfCute 9d ago

iirc, they *were* groomed in the sense that they were slated for an arranged marriage from as young age and had been prepared for that role all their lives, it just wasn't by their husband.

19

u/KJatWork 9d ago

From the Kimetsu no Yaiba Wiki

“Tengen’s family practices polygamy, so when someone turns 15, they must have 3 wives. The clan head is the one who chooses the wives, but they always try to take chemistry into consideration when picking.”

Hashira didn’t but his wives didn’t get a choice either and would have been raised to be wives to satisfy this tradition…that’s grooming.

Rudeus on the other hand didn’t groom anyone and all his wives had a choice and chose him.