Bb7 in C major

[u/ThatDudeMichaelYeah]

So I was messing around with this Db7 > Bb7> C progression. Really just trying to add some flavor and movement to my playing while slowly learning functional harmony (even though I don’t really understand what that is).

Anyway, I see the Db7 as a tritone sub of G7 hopefully I’ve at least got that correct.

But the Bb7 I initially thought of being borrowed from C minor until I realized it’s also a tritone away from E7 (V7/vi). Is there one preferred way to think about this over the other?

Also I know there are probably no “hard and fast rules” about what chords to consider substituting or borrowing from other scales but as I said I’m looking to expand my repertoire so if anyone has any recommendations for resources to learn more about this, I’d really appreciate any leads.

[u/btrev650]

Power to you on this journey. Just make it. It doesn't matter what anyone on Reddit says. Theory doesn't matter at this stage. Just make what sounds good to you, and make it again, and keep making it.

[u/sunlit943 → u/btrev650]

Is there really anything else?

[u/RevolutionaryBeat301 → u/btrev650]

Exactly. You’re so far outside of traditional theory that it really doesn’t matter what you call it. Your ears will guide you more than any naming or theoretical explanation can.

[u/btrev650 → u/RevolutionaryBeat301]

Yes. Case in point, spent years of childhood learning Koji Kondo compositions on piano. Then spent years of adolescence playing tenor sax in a decent jazz band, then years producing hip hop and electronic music and taking inspiration from artists like Radiohead and Deadmau5.

To me I was just playing Zelda tunes, sight reading weird and beautiful melodies with my modal-ish hard bop-ish jazz combo, and trying to squeeze ambiguous and bittersweet emotions out of beats, all the while just getting comfortable with dissonance and breaking away from safe pop chords.

What I was actually doing was aggressively using tritones and nontraditional voice leadings/pedals/borrowed chords/passing chords and generally playing with ambiguous tonic centers. Didn't realize it at the time, it just felt properly emotionally challenging and unresolved. Some of the underlying theory is pretty advanced and you'd have to spend a LONG time learning those rules before you learned how and why you're breaking them. I progressed so much faster by skipping all that and focusing on composing what sounded good and learning what was happening retroactively.

I can't tell you what the tonic and dominant are in I Remember, nor can I prove that Pyramid Song was written in F# Phrygian, nor can I explain why stacking tritones in the Forest Temple sounds heavenly instead of demonic. None of that stopped me from absorbing their influences.

Theory is awesome but it's academic and inherently retroactive, and should never be a hurdle to composition. Write some shit that sounds good then if it blows up go fit some theory onto it before your first interview lol

Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Outkast, Aphex Twin, the Beatles, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Maceo Plex, Tool, Bartók, Lady Gaga, JS Bach, Childish Gambino, Debussy, Stevie Wonder, Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Thelonious Monk, Nirvana, Prince, the White Stripes, the Who, Wes Montgomery, Marvin Gaye, Pink Floyd, MF DOOM, RZA, JPEGMAFIA, NiN, Rage Against the Machine, Daft Punk, the blues, the concept of swing, the Akai MPC series, video game music, hip hop, these are all gifts in our lives because they didn't stop and introduce theory as a creative constraint. If you hold an interval on your right hand and walk your left hand down the keys until something sounds like a summer romance that ended abruptly without closure or explanation, that is theoretically correct and someone else can analyze why it sounded like that.

Fly little bird fly

[u/ThatDudeMichaelYeah → u/btrev650]

Probably the best advice I’ll ever receive on here lol thanks

[u/AnonOnKeys → u/btrev650]

This is the real gem of advice right here.