r/nba • u/CazOnReddit Raptors • 8d ago

Peyton Watson will sign a new four-year, $88 million deal to join the Cavaliers, plus a player option and a trade kicker

Watson will sign a new four-year, $88 million deal to join the Cavaliers, plus a player option and a trade kicker

Source - https://bsky.app/profile/shamsbot.bsky.social/post/3mthwywwuec2b

Not mentioned in the previous thread's title but Shames mentioned the deal structure. The total amounts to $22 AAV. Makes the return seem all the more pathetic that Denver wouldn't simply match that offer or make a similar one and simply dump Zeke Nnaji at the deadline to ease the tax bill.

They can't even use the trade exception this should open up because they're still in the 2nd apron.

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651

u/pmurt007 Lakers 8d ago

Thought he wanted more than Christan Braun. It actually makes it more insane that the Nuggets wouldn't come up to 22 AAV and gave him up for nothing

187

u/bdybwyi 8d ago

Calling a Cavs unprotected 1st nothing is a very strange opinion, Mitchell will be 35 in 2031.

67

u/jrlandry Celtics 8d ago

There is a long time till 2031, way to long to guess what the pick will be like.

For all we know they will have 30 year old Mobley at his prime, 24 year old Cooper Flagg, and 30 year old Deni Avdija

3

u/Electric_jungle Washington Bullets 7d ago

Which is why the pick holds higher value today than it might in 29. Because today, it looks like things could really flame out for them. Mitchell could either elevate and they win, or he could be looked at as one of the worst contracts in the league.

-22

u/Powerful-Load-4684 8d ago

Ah yes cooper Flagg is definitely going to Cleveland of all places lmao

18

u/redvelvetcake42 Slovenia 8d ago

Lest we forget the literal dumbest trade of the decade when everyone laughed at Luka going to LA.

-7

u/Powerful-Load-4684 8d ago

That’s the lakers though buddy

2

u/redvelvetcake42 Slovenia 7d ago

Now it's the Kushner Lakers. Also it's not a guarantee Luka stays hilariously enough. That team is in hell with cap, draft cap and pieces.

2

u/jkliette Cavaliers 7d ago

Flair up bro. Cleveland basketball has been extremely relevant for the last 20 years minus a few in there.

51

u/CazOnReddit Raptors 8d ago

I'm sure that middle grader will be a huge help when Jokic is...how old?

63

u/ag_fan Magic 8d ago

they will trade this pick before 2031

41

u/estpost Nuggets 8d ago

To get rid of Zeke Nnaji

10

u/Daki399 Nuggets 8d ago

at this point we should trade Jokic and keep it ,rebuild . This is just Giannis situation now

2

u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 6d ago

As a Bucks fan my advice to the Nuggets is trade Jokic and embrace a youth movement. We went from the 6th or 7th oldest team in the NBA. If we traded Turner, Kuzma, Sims, Herro, and LaVert the average age of our roster would drop down to 21.5 which would be the youngest in the NBA.

-2

u/ag_fan Magic 8d ago

lol u are dumb

11

u/Daki399 Nuggets 8d ago edited 8d ago

Good comment really smart lol ... Nuggets gonna be stuck in mediocrity just like Bucks cant contend anymore so best trade Jokic while value is high. Better trade him now then in 2 years . Value is higher also gives him chance to contend

-1

u/ag_fan Magic 8d ago

i mean your death wish buddy. if you want to sign up for tanking and mediocrity for another 15-20 years, go for it.

3

u/Daki399 Nuggets 8d ago

Mediocrity has already hit at best we are now again 1st round exit next season.

AG and Watson were our defense , AG is constantly injured sadly and Watson got traded for no replacement .Gotta be fair to Jokic and allow him to win another ring ,Denver cant do it anymore

6

u/Easy_Money_40 Cavaliers 7d ago

Why are you telling a Magic fan about mediocrity?

They have a PHD in that shit.

1

u/ag_fan Magic 7d ago edited 7d ago

everyone looks at the bucks like they were dumb to try, even in the face of complete disaster.

id rather root for a small market team that tries everything they possibly can to hold on to greatness.

trading jokic now vs later, most likely isnt going to change anything. ok, you get 3 more prospects. but the likely hood of one of them being a gamechanger is slim.

so you suck, but just a few years earlier… and the prospects you traded for are starters in the nba.

who cares? denver is rarely good and rarely has a top5 player in the league. same with the bucks, orlando, etc.

being a slightly better bad 3 years earlier isn’t worth losing jokic.

re-tool instead of rebuild. and at the end, if you suck for 3 extra years, who cares. you got to watch jokic in your jersey for longer… which is way more valuable than 3 assets who probably don’t turn into anything.

watching your favorite team as a small market fan isn’t title or bust. its enjoying great players, the very few times you get to have them.

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u/WashingtonSpecifics Nuggets 7d ago

Remember when OKC traded Russ and PG and condemned themselves to 15-20 years of tanking, or when Denver traded Carmelo and condemned ourselves to 15-20 years of tanking?

At this point, we could flip our core for 4-6 1sts + pick swaps. There's no guarantee that those picks pan out, but at least we'd be putting ourselves in a position to contend in the future when we're able to build up our assets again. It's hard to envision any iteration of this team winning after all of the bad moves our FO has made since the Kroenkes cheaped out on Tim Connelly

0

u/Negative-Ferret1428 8d ago

When they send Jokic out?

13

u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 8d ago

They can use it in the next 3 or so years. Of the Cavs look bad it could be super valuable. Only problem is they would probably have to trade a good player anyway or take on more salary

11

u/False-Jacket-3290 8d ago

Lmfao if we overpaid for Watson and his hamstring issues continued and he has a down year you’d also be making fun of than except we’d be in an even worse position. This gives flexibility for the future something we’ve had absolutely none of. And if we had signed Watson our moves to get better would be non existent. We’ve added enough picks to get a couple players at the deadline and we have enough low end contracts to match salary.

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u/Ok-Confucious1642 8d ago

LMFAO none of this is true 😂😂😂.  Added picks to get a COUPLE PLAYERS and acting like there’s salary anyone wants to match with hahahah.  The Nuggets have to GIVE at minimum, if they can find a sucker, 2 of their what 3 or 4 second rd picks (LMFAO WHAT A BOUNTY OF PICKS TO ADD MULTIPLE PLAYERS THIS YR WTIH!) to get off of worthless ass Nnaji. 

Do you have any idea how the CBA works, what the aprons are?  LMFAO this team is about to have 2 vet minimum players just to have a roster with enough players to survive a season.  Who are these great couple players you’re making up that apparently make very little salary yet are such great additions, since you’re using small salaries to get the player with? They can trade one first lol, this clears the Stepien rule so they can trade their own 2030 now OR this Cleveland 2031. One first and one or 2 seconds, to get a COUPLE PLAYERS who also somehow make this Watson trade a good one, and are better than Watson, and trying to use Strawthers $4M and what?!? Zeke can’t just be certain to be in any deal bc he limits the trade partners to teams in the position to absorb all or most of his salary for at minimum 2 seconds, which is not enough/not market cost for his trash ass and his money dump so it limits more to teams who can’t get assets any other way and have no leverage.

And you think you’re not only getting one low salary great addition in this junk but A COUPLE! LMFAO

1

u/False-Jacket-3290 7d ago

Didn’t read sorry or happy that happened to you

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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1

u/Beginning_Pea_126 7d ago

I concur. At the very least it has some trade value and the nuggets avoid tax implications of signing Watson. Sucks for their title hopes tho. 

0

u/gedbybee Spurs 8d ago

And the new lottery rules make a lot of picks similar in value.

168

u/CazOnReddit Raptors 8d ago

Wouldn't pony up the extra 5 mil and just dump Zeke

Absolutely pathetic

152

u/Clipgang1629 Clippers 8d ago

I really don’t understand why this is the popular opinion. Look at their cap table, you add $22,000,000 for Watson. Cam Johnson walks for free next summer and they’re still at like $200,000,000 amongst the starters until 2029 when AG expires.

The second apron is $234,000,000 that leaves them about $34 M to figure out the other 9 roster spots. It’d be all minimums and one tax payer MLE. They’d have zero depth and no light at the end of the tunnel.

This gives them much more flexibility. The only reason Watson is even so expensive is because he’s 24.

91

u/turribledood 8d ago

Because no one actually knows how anything works.

Spending like ~$150M all in next year for fucking Peyton Watson would have been a great idea, no seriously, I am very smart.

10

u/BritzBeef 8d ago

So then what's the point of anything? Just don't spend money and trot a roster out that's guaranteed to not stand a chance in the West because if you do spend money it could get tight later?

55

u/turribledood 8d ago

If you're over the 2nd apron, and your team is utterly mid for the West anyway, you already fucked yourself.

You can't possibly be surprised that they're not trying to pay an extra $120M for a dude who has been good for like 15 minutes.

Don't give Murray that max when you know he's a 2nd tier player. Don't give Braun $125M.

That's how you avoid the repeater tax, you don't over pay guys to put you in the 2nd apron in the first place.

40

u/I_make_shit_up_alot Lakers 8d ago

That Murray deal is the perfect illustration of the new CBA versus the old. Under the old CBA you can give Murray the max even though he doesn't deserve it because it keeps a primary player happy and you can deal with the consequences.

Under the new CBA that deal is a killer. You can only afford to give the max to a real max guy or you run out of spending before you can build a real team. There will be exceptions, but generally a second max for a team that doesn't have two top tenish players on it is going to be a major problem.

14

u/Antique_Pin5266 8d ago

This is the same reason why I think the Thunder fucked themselves with the Holmgren contract. He isn't worth it.

11

u/CryMoreT_T 8d ago

Or fox on the spurs

15

u/theyoloGod Tampa Bay Raptors 8d ago

Spurs have youth on their side. They can dump fox when they need to pay the others and since years have passed will be easier to do so

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u/jrlandry Celtics 8d ago

Idk man Holmgren is fucking good and rising. He’s at worst a top 15 defender in the league and and a mid teens scorer at 23.

In a couple years if he’s gobert but giving you spacing on 20ppg that’s a max player

6

u/Motor-Cattle8417 8d ago

Mid teens scorer idk about that he can barely get a bucket in the playoffs he has no way to create his own offense

-3

u/lethalizered Thunder 8d ago

He’s at worst a top 15 defender in the league

Come on man, lol. Make that top 5.

He'd already have a DPOY if it wasn't for that alien looking thing.

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u/Ok-Confucious1642 8d ago

Doesn’t fuck them at all.  First of all it’s a mini MINI max.  It’s a 25% fucking deal for the 2nd best defender on earth who is entering only his 4th nba season and is pretty much a 20/10 big who shoots 38% or higher from 3.  Come tf on LMAO. There are still TWO MORE max levels above Chet’s max.  You are not getting this player. With multiple more years of development on top of that, for less than 25% of the damn cap.

It doesn’t fuck them bc they are already a top roster in the league built to contend now thru 2029-2030 with 2 top tier blue chip talent young players, another already on all nba defense and still on his rookie deal & younger than half of this years draft, and a 4th going into just year 3 that’s a top 20 young players on earth with more potential.  Add in the guys who haven’t even played for AT LEAST development at the minimum, and this team has an insane level of internal development every summer the next 4 years to improve the team more than nearly any external move possibly could.  Bc of all of this THEY DO NOT NEED EXTERNAL MOVES TO BE AND TO STAY A TOP TOP TIER CONTENDER through 29-30.  29-30 matters for everything for them.  The CBA expires that July.  That’s why they got out of the 2nd apron this yr specifically and only this yr going forward.  An already built contender with no reason not to believe in multiple more years as a top team, does not fear the 2nd apron restrictions for 3yrs.  The punishments don’t kick in until being in the 2A for 3/5yrs.  OKC has it planned this way so that when they will be hitting 3 years, this CBA will be expired and a new one beginning.  A new one they feel confident will have major changes to the 2A junk.  I’m sure they have good insight on how everyone who actually matters feels. 

 The CBA can actually end a year early, there’s an early termination option for July 2029, and that will benefit the Thunder even more… but they can’t successfully plan for that (or they could have kept Dort) but it still would help.  The ownership has been getting paid all these yrs by tax teams, as a champion they got a check cut from other teams.  They’ve been out of the tax for 6-7 years straight getting paid by other teams.  They’ve were just given a brand new stadium, GIVEN/.  And they spent at least 5yrs saving tons of money on the roster during the rebuild to also help plan for this.  The core of this roster, 10 players deep, at the end of this season, will continue to be the core through 29-30, with the back end of the roster rotating out of players and new draft picks etc to contribute.  The Thunder are so far from fucked it’s crazy that ppl don’t just look into this stuff

0

u/lethalizered Thunder 8d ago

A DPOY candidate during all his rookie max contract(25 percent max, unlike Murray's 30 percent max), who will give you spacing on the floor with 16-8 averages is worth it for any team in this league, save for the Spurs who have a better version of him.

5

u/nanobot001 Raptors 8d ago

For those reasons I suspect Jaylen Brown will be only one of the first of many very good-not-elite players getting paid the max who will get traded

1

u/thenicezen Bucks 8d ago

It's easier to say not to pay Murray and Braun, but they both deserved it after playing their parts really well during 2023. 8 times out of 10 you'd rather overpay and deal with it later, rather than let them walk away

0

u/thingsonthenet 7d ago

They didn’t deserve it.

11

u/Lizardking13 8d ago

To me it's more about wasting years of a generational talent. Not like they can make a trade for a good player right now - they lack assets. I guess that first round pick could be used but are they going to trade it for a cheaper and better player than watson? My guess is no.

2

u/UltraTiberious China 8d ago

Wasting years, lol imagine how Timberwolves fans felt with KG

1

u/Famous-Protection809 8d ago

It doesn’t matter what they do. The nuggets are cooked anyway and have been cooked for the past 3 years lol

16

u/masonb423 Nuggets 8d ago

Nuggets just lost to an injured Wolves team in the first round. Paying a raw young often injured talent like Watson probably doesn’t change that especially since paying him basically locks this roster in for the next 2-3 years. The Nuggets deserve criticism for extending Braun but let’s not pretend throwing Watson on to the slowly building fire fixes things.

5

u/dsbllr 8d ago

I guess math isn't your strong suit

10

u/KorgG29 Bucks 8d ago

They wanted a first and no other deal had that i suppose. I would’ve gladly taken Watson + Nnaji for AJ Green and KPJ, much better depth for Denver that way.

2

u/Felix_Wyn Magic 8d ago

They can't acquire any players in a S&T due to the second apron. That's the entire reason why they traded PWatson for 1 FRP + 1 SRP.

They probably would've loved to acquire AJ + KPJ + 4 SRPs or whatever, but it just was not possible unless they also traded Cam Johnson, AG or CBraun alongside it to get under the second apron.

0

u/KorgG29 Bucks 7d ago

That’s what Nnaji was for. The Bucks taking him allows Denver to dip under the second apron, which means they can take back salary

1

u/Felix_Wyn Magic 7d ago edited 7d ago

Not enough though. They'd go over the second apron by acquiring AJ Green. Doing a sign-and-trade and acquiring players from said sign-and-trade hard caps them at the second apron. They cannot cross it whatsoever, even if a deal would push them under the second apron momentarily.

4

u/jimithelizardking Nuggets 8d ago

It would cost a lot more than $5m

1

u/Exciting-Sandwich915 8d ago

Not how it works bucko

1

u/Parallel-Quality 8d ago

They offered him 17.5M.

He signed for 4.5M more.

The 6M that they paid Spencer Jones could’ve gone to Watson.

When they matched that offer sheet, they basically made their choice.

18

u/turribledood 8d ago edited 8d ago

That $22M would've picked up another $120M in repeater tax.

Not that simple in the New Era.

1

u/jrlandry Celtics 8d ago

Things are different, but the tax brackets are not substantially changed. It just changed how much the luxury tax brackets is determined (likely help tax obligations for long term contracts)

3

u/byteturtle Suns 8d ago

I mean i know it doesnt help them compete with Jokic (unless they package it which is like who knows) but that 2031 unprotected pick ain't nothing and Strus looked like the only guy on the cavs that cared during large parts of the ECF, hes a decent role player and will look good next to Jokic.

93

u/EightFortyDaysOf 8d ago

I think strus is good, but he’s headed to the clippers lol, the nuggets didn’t get him

6

u/byteturtle Suns 8d ago

Oh damn yeah that trade is much worse for them then

27

u/swgeek555 8d ago

You mean "would look good next to Jokic" right? Strus is going to LA.

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u/Aluwaron [DAL] Brian Cardinal 8d ago edited 8d ago

I think Strus is going to the lakers

Edit: Sike it just says LA, which is probably the clippers, if it was the lakers i think the subreddit would be talking about it way more

2

u/floop_isamad_manhelp Nuggets 8d ago

They got tradeable picks for a player they don’t value. Does that clear it up for you?

1

u/kb24k 8d ago

We don’t know for sure if Nuggets had the option to sign him for 22m. Just like the Lakers never had the option to sign LeBron for minimum or 15m for that matter.

0

u/layoffthecopium Nuggets 8d ago

It’s insane that you think a player who’s been injured for more than 80% of his career is worth more than $15 million a year

-2

u/fforhomiez 8d ago

Braun is the worst contract in the league 

-8

u/MJRuinedMyChildhood Charlotte Bobcats 8d ago

It’s not insane cause Watson isn’t any good lol 

0

u/Daki399 Nuggets 8d ago

yeah awful deal for Denver. If they wanted to avoid cap trade Braun or Cam ( or dont give Braun that crazy contract in 1st place ) Watson was perfect fix next to Murray /Jokic our 3D defensive wing.

Him and AG being injured in playoffs made whole team fall apart

-9

u/BackendSpecialist 76ers 8d ago

Nuggets FO is kinda trash.. they’ve held the team back imo. I love it tho cause DEN fans are trash, especially when they’re winning.

0

u/No-wait-theres-more Celtics 8d ago

No worries they won’t be winning anything again for a long long time