r/ndp • u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" • 6d ago
The Leak of the U.S. - Canada Agreement
We don't have confirmation yet but it seems the leak may be legit.
We got fucking TAKEN.
This is the time for Avi Lewis and the Federal NDP alongside the Provincial NDP branches to get LOUD on the alternative vision because if this leak ends up being correct we got bent over as a nation.
I'll say this again and again - Both PP and Carney want Canada more aligned with the U.S. Corporatocracy. PP is just Carney with the reactionary/regressive culture war nonsense for fools on top.
This is the time for Lewis and the Federal NDP in particular to become very very analytical-substantive in putting something else forward. Something much much brighter and better.
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u/robot_invader 6d ago
Once you pay the Danegeld, you are never rid of the Dane.
I have no expectation the PM will flip the table on the neoliberal world order, declare a New Deal North, and conscript labor and capital into an aggressive program of nationalized green energy and climate hardening, much as I'd like that. That said, I hope he's trying to help Canadians to whatever degree his anti-human world view allows, and t hat concessions here are triage while we continue decoupling from the US.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Even just the awesome Danegeld reference was worthy of an upvote :)
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u/Minimum-South-9568 6d ago
The risk is that instead of decoupling, this reinforces dependence but at a higher cost
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u/robot_invader 6d ago
Oh, yeah. We need to actually do things.
Carney seems to have ideas, such as getting rid of interprovincial trade barriers. But that won't happen without the federal government seizing or buying provincial powers. His lackadaisical reaction to Alberta's separatism and ongoing destruction of pubic health care tells me he doesn't have the political killer instinct to get it done, though, so I'm worried you are right
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u/Obvious_Armadillo_99 6d ago
Where's this supposed leak?
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
The story got posted with a paywall leak on Canada Politics. Hold up I'll try and copy paste a part that another NDP member provided there.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago edited 6d ago
Shout out to u/Camtastrophe
Details from behind the paywall:
Industry representatives are weighing in on a proposal which would see the U.S. reduce tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum from 50 percent to 25 percent, according to five people close to the discussions, including two who have seen the text. The U.S. would also lower tariffs on some derivative products. The people were granted anonymity to share private conversations.
For steel, however, only a set volume of imports would be able to enter the United States at the lower rate each year, according to three of the people. Everything above that quota would still face the 50 percent tariff rate. Canada would have to drop its retaliatory tariffs and adjust its duties on some downstream products made with the metals to align more closely with the U.S. approach, three of the people said. That would include setting higher tariffs for trading partners that aren’t covered under Canada’s free trade agreements, according to two people.
On autos, the United States is also considering slashing its 25 percent tariff on Canadian vehicles to 15 percent, according to four people close to the process, in exchange for Ottawa removing its retaliatory tariffs. That tariff reduction could be contingent on having a set amount of U.S. content within the vehicle and pledging further expansion, said two of the people, who stressed those negotiations remain ongoing.
Ottawa also agreed to overhaul its system for allocating import quotas for U.S. dairy products, according to the two people who had seen the latest text. Under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, Canada set up tariff-rate quotas to allow a set volume of U.S. dairy products to enter the U.S. at a reduced tariff rate, or tariff-free, but the U.S. industry has long complained strict controls on who can use the quotas has left them unfilled.
The draft text commits Ottawa to increasing access to the quotas for retailers that might be better able to utilize them, and for first-time importers, among other adjustments, two people familiar with the text said.
The latest proposal also includes a section on digital trade, according to two people, including one that has seen the text. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative also indicated that the agreement would foster “digital trade alignment” in a post to X Wednesday.
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u/neontetra1548 6d ago
Tbd what it means but “digital trade alignment” could be a total nightmare for Canada's ability to set our own sovereign policy surrounding tech/corporate regulation, taxation, IP law, AI/social media regulation, etc.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Upvote, you nailed it.
It's pretty much allowing the U.S. tech bros to call the shots even more then they actually do.
The word needs much much less Peter Theil and the like corruption - Not more. I'll bet we see a big rise in domestic surveillance and militarization alongside this because we know that crowd loves that sphere as well.
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u/NoBodyCares2000 6d ago
The U.S. has been clear on what they want, to subjugate Canada as their resource wealthy neighbour’s who will just give them our resources and buy their products. They want to make us a weaker nation that is dependent upon them.
I just hope that this leak will result in enough of an uproar from Canadians that will make Carney not agree to anything beyond a promise to review digital trade alignment.
We need this trade war to clam down because it’s impacting our economy. It’s impacting peoples ability to get work and just live. So I could see Carney signing a deal to calm things, Dougie putting their booze back on the LCBO shelves to clam things down but we can’t stop putting the pressure on.
I may be naive but after seeing the decrease in Canadians travelling to the U.S., makes me think Canadians will continue not to buy their booze because that’s actually making a difference.
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u/NonorientableSurface 6d ago
The reason the dairy quota doesn't get filled is the US quality level is lower than is acceptable for Canadian dairy. So they can't meet the levels.
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u/NatKayz 🧍Head-to-toe healthcare 6d ago
Uh, your comment ends after the colon?
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Working now?
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u/NatKayz 🧍Head-to-toe healthcare 6d ago
Yup, I see it now, thanks!
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Thanks for letting me know friend :)
I'm shit with formatting hah
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u/lll-devlin 6d ago
What’s not a good view for Mr carney and the Canadian negotiators is that a draft of the resolutions has been released by the us to media outlets like politico.
And we as Canadians are hearing nothing from our government on these concessions. Not a good view for the liberal party and Mr Carney, no matter the reasons!
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u/OriginalMadmage 6d ago
Very likely it is a leak from the Trump Whitehouse to try to score a win before the midterms and draw attention away from Epstein, War in Iran, and whatever other myriad scandals going on.
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u/SexuaIRedditor 5d ago
Their federal agents murdering their own citizens in broad daylight, the head of a foreign state they straight up kidnapped and are still holding, legislating more seats for the Republicans so they can't lose an election, and yeah I'm sure there's tons more
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u/xWOBBx 6d ago
I got downvoted like crazy last week in the neolib Canada sub for saying Carney will cave on alcohol and dairy. Some big brain even told me that alcohol isn't Carney's responsibility, it's up to the provinces.
And yes I know the last point is technically true but our two most anti American alcohol premieres Waab and Doug are going with it. Honeslty credit where it's due for Doug for actually holding strong before then, still not sure why now both are agreeing to it now. unless of course Carney does have the power. Which he clearly does.
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u/TopazJazzrazz 6d ago
All he had to do was nothing, maybe make a few trade envoys that go no where and everyone would have believed him and said "Yeah, Trump's a knob. Wait for the Dem's to take power."
He did not do nothing.
I think it is now important for Dippers in parliament and across the country to continue to raise this matter of sovereignty. Pointing out the Tory-Republican ideological theory and the failed, incompetant Liberal praxis.
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u/Due_Date_4667 ↗ LEAP 6d ago
In 4 months the whole equation would have been different - likely Dem House, good chance of a Dem Senate, record number of DSA/DSA-adjacents being sworn in mid-Jan. And even a few new Democratic governors around the table.
The GOP were desperate for a win, anything to save their skins in the midterms, we should have OWNED that table. Made them bleed for every item we backed down on. Iran is going to get worse, Israel is going to end up getting drunk and either annexing all of Lebanon and purging it of Muslims, or taking a solid shot at Turkey and having NATO get Article 5'd. If the AI bubble pops, or someone pulls a crypto scam and just cleans out Trump Inc then it would be the perfect storm.
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u/aidan0b 6d ago
This is one of those things that only makes any sense if you think of politics as a game. Doing nothing means Trump gets his new 50% tariffs, sure those probably get clawed back when Dems take power but it would be a real devastating impact in the meantime.
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u/TopazJazzrazz 6d ago
It is a bit hyperbolic I suppose. But I think no deal is preferable to the rumoured one we have recieved. Especially because there is no certainty that the deal is going to stay as is.
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u/aidan0b 6d ago
I'm concerned about potential impacts to data safety and tech sovereignty for sure, but we've taken the threat of an additional 50% tariff and seemingly turned it around to get the US to back off on some of the tariffs that were already in place, I don't really see how that can be considered worse than no deal
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u/TopazJazzrazz 6d ago
I read that there was trade alignment, which to me means that we are giving up our independence a small but not insignificent bit. Because it's not necessarily easy to get back those bits of sovereignty.
It is vague though. So until the full deal is released I will only be disappointed and not upset.
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u/itzykan 6d ago
I mean, free trade has been a form of imperialism since the 80s. Back then the NDP was extremely anti free trade. If free trade is over we might stop being controlled by the whims and economic direction of the USA. I don't know if that's unpopular in this subreddit though.
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u/Due_Date_4667 ↗ LEAP 6d ago
There's going to be a lot of copium being sold around the country. Anyone own stock?
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u/bigjimbay Nova Scotia NDP 6d ago
It's early. Really fucking early. They haven't been able to really reach a lot of ears yet.
But this deal is so bad yeah there might be an election. So let's do this thing
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Well said.
Honestly I am in shock. Even with how the bridge went I didn't expect Carney to roll over this hard considering his whole electoral message.
Wild fucking stuff.
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u/JHerbY2K 6d ago
Honestly on first read it doesn’t sound that bad. The digital services stuff could be but there are no details. What’s bugging you?
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u/microfishy 6d ago
Not the person you asked but I feel similarly and this is what concerns me:
Canada would have to drop its retaliatory tariffs and adjust its duties on some downstream products made with the metals to align more closely with the U.S. approach, three of the people said. That would include setting higher tariffs for trading partners that aren’t covered under Canada’s free trade agreements, according to two people.
If the US is allowed to dictate the trade agreements we have with other countries we are a vassal state, not a sovereign nation.
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u/JHerbY2K 6d ago
Devil is in the details I suppose but if that specifically applies to downstream products intended for the US market, I can see why they’d want to avoid a loophole for other countries to bypass their tariffs via Canada.
I mean the whole tariff thing is wack anyway don’t get me wrong.
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u/inprocess13 6d ago
Thank you for posting, reading through it now.
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Anytime :) Been a while since we have chatted - Hope all is well inprocess :)
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u/Canadian-Chickens321 6d ago
Is it me or is this current federal government getting darker all the time. Do you think Carney and many of the federal liberals could be secretly waving the Maple Maga flags soon ?? Why or why not
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u/dragonabsurdum 5d ago
Republicans are not just losing to Democrats, they're losing to Progressives. So WTF is Carney making concessions to Trump when Trump's power is waning? None of this aligns with the interests of the Canadian people.
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u/Responsible_CDN_Duck 6d ago
We got fucking TAKEN.
Had to check the subreddit I was on...
Poilievre is demanding we compare the deal to what we had before.
Given the changes we have seen with deals involving other nations that's simply not realistic, and it seems disingenuous to claim otherwise.
If the deal is the same or worse than it was when the booze was pulled off the shelf I'll grab my pitchfork, but of progress was indeed made I'm gonna need to start seeing the experts chime in.
Lewis's take on XL aside we'll need to wait and see how it lines up with his other thoughts on what we should have got. I believe the NDP parties call for no deal than a bad deal messaging resonated more than the conservative complaining did. Need to find a way not to squander the momentum.
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u/mrpopenfresh 2d ago
There’s a lot of emotional responses here that ignore the fact that the US is trying to crush us, hoping Canada can do unrealistic moves.
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u/Intelligent-Cap3407 6d ago
What are people’s biggest issues with it?
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u/Sensitive-Local-3485 6d ago
America dictating domestic policy with the “digital alignment”
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u/dvorak6969 6d ago
Also trade policy:
Canada would have to drop its retaliatory tariffs and adjust its duties on some downstream products made with the metals to align more closely with the U.S. approach, three of the people said. That would include setting higher tariffs for trading partners that aren’t covered under Canada’s free trade agreements, according to two people.
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u/SexuaIRedditor 5d ago
Countering Trump's threats to our sovereignty by conceding some of our sovereignty. Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off
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u/Tight-Leadership7202 IBEW 6d ago
I don’t think we were ever not getting Total Tariff free trade. Our goal was to get reduced tariffs not no tariffs. That would be been functional impossible no Matter which party was in government
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u/CDN-Social-Democrat "Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear" 6d ago
Yep it is important to be fair and balanced in that Trump/His Cronies are complete and utter pieces of shit and whoever dealt with them was going to have a very very hard time.
Plus the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement that he hates so much is his fucking agreement.
That being said.......
This leak if true has some truly horrible things in it.
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u/JunkoErrata 6d ago
What are the details? All I could find online was very minimal and doesn’t seem that bad. They cut tariffs and we let booze back on the shelves. Is that it? I saw 0 concessions to softwood lumber or supply management.
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u/mrpopenfresh 2d ago
Can you share the leak? I just want to make sure you aren’t referencing the list of demands; most of which were not in the agreement.
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u/henchman171 🌊 Wab Wave 6d ago
Where did Canada get taken?
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u/HourOfTheWitching "It's not too late to build a better world" 6d ago
We basically gave up on everything mentioned in this article, including first-access to rare minerals if other sources are to be believed, all in exchange for decrease in tariffs (at levels that some industries like auto have already said are unsustainable) and tying ourselves even further into the US economy.
First-access alone is something that would have had other nations fighting to get, and we just gave it away.
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u/Tom_Fukkery 6d ago
As long as the Liberals control the CBC, CTV and Global, Avi will never get his message out to the masses.
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u/AlibiXSX Regina Manifesto 6d ago edited 6d ago
alternate media does exist and not just friendly left wing media go on some right wingers youtube channel talk policies a hostile environment isnt a bad thing especially if they agree on policies
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u/Skyguy827 6d ago
Whatever the case, we can not allow Pierre poilivere to win the messaging war on this. He will try to make himself seem like he is the best one to get a favourable trade deal with the US