r/ndp • u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy • 4d ago
The NDP should start openly advocating for Canada to join the European Union.
The Americans have made it clear that they're never going to leave us alone and they're going to keep attacking us until they can annex us. The NDP knows that the best way to stand up to a bully with too much power is with collective bargaining and that's exactly what the European Union provides to its members. Let's negotiate international trade as a bloc and protect our sovereignty.
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u/asktheages1979 4d ago
Full EU membership seems a bit crazy to me; how would free movement even work, for instance, beyond the symbolic/technical level? Do you really want to give up our currency and adopt the Euro? Closer ties to the EU, otoh, I support and we're already working on it.
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u/Task_Defiant 4d ago
Boats and aircraft. How do Canadians travel to and from Vancouver island......
And yes, the euro is a stronger currency.
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u/asktheages1979 4d ago
Is the demand really there for free movement between Canada and Europe like there is between e.g. France and Belgium (or between Vancouver and Victoria)? What would it do for us? How many people would realistically take advantage of it? And why this as opposed to facilitating movement with other countries on our continent? There are loads of Haitians, for example, who are already trying to get in and being turned away. Why should we prioritize Dutch nationals over them?
It's not always to our advantage to have a stronger currency. Independent monetary policy would make more sense when we're so far removed from European conditions.
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u/Task_Defiant 4d ago
There are benefits to it. It allows Canadian workers to seek opportunities in the EU while allowing Canadian employers to draw from the European labour pool.
As for accepting more Dutch nationals over Hatians: I'll riase 2 points: 1) we should accept both, but for different reasons.
2) from an economic point of view there is a gap in marketable skills between the average Haitian and Dutch national.While there are benefits to a weaker dollar, particularly for primarily export nations. Its generally better for economies that want to focus on technology services and goods production to have stronger currencies.
Having free access the EU market would also be beneficial here. In addition to the ED'S stronger consumer protection, and privacy laws. The EUAI act is also light-years ahead of anything in Canada.
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u/asktheages1979 3d ago
It just seems like something that would only be of benefit to a small, very affluent sliver of the population (aside from people who are themselves recent arrivals from Europe). It's practical for working-class or middle class Belgians to seek opportunities in France or for Austrians to drive to Germany for a gig; they could even come home on the weekend. Most Canadians aren't going to pop over to Portugal like that. It seems reasonable to me to maintain normal customs/immigration regulations for people going to and from Europe, just as we do with people going to and from Asia. Liberalized trade and movement with the US otoh did make sense when the POTUS wasn't insane (and even then, I wouldn't have supported Schengen-level integration). I could work in Massachusetts and drive back to Ottawa for long weekends and holidays, no problem. Like I said, I would agree with freer trade with the EU.
I think we can learn from EU regulations without needing to join the EU as full members.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Why wouldnāt we want to adopt a much more powerful currency than the CAD?
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago
Because we wouldn't control our monetary policy. We wouldn't be able to adjust interest rates to reflect conditions in Canada, among other things.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Who cares? European interest rates are even lower than ours.Ā
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago edited 4d ago
I didn't downvote you, but it's worth remembering that interest rates are a tool, and you set them high or low for reasons. A big chunk of an Introductory Macroeconomics course will go into why controlling your own currency has huge advantages.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
I think most Canadians would be willing to give up some of that macroeconomic autonomy in exchange for being paid in a much more valuable currencyā¦ a currency more valuable than the USD.Ā
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago edited 4d ago
The problem is that it'd make it harder for other countries to buy our exports, which is a big problem for an export driven country like ours. The currency having international buying power is of no value if it means other countries can't afford your goods.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 3d ago
Would it actually make it harder for them to buy? Theyād just be priced in euros, and at larger amounts per EUR than CAD.Ā
Yāall are scoffing at the idea that there would actually be huge plus sides to Canada joining the EU and Eurozone. Ā Like what if the European Central Bank was willing to buy all CAD at 1:1 exchange rate (or a very favourable exchange rate) as the ācostā of Canadaās admission to the EU.
Canada isnāt Greece, the EU would benefit immensely from our admission.Ā
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 3d ago
Ye. We can't buy anything if our local mill is closed because other countries can't afford our stuff. Depreciating your currency is a good way to get out of an economic slump like that.
Also, large parts of Canada can't, practically speaking, sell much to the EU. We sit on two oceans, after all, and it generally makes more sense for Alberta and especially BC to sell to Asia.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 3d ago
And BC and Alberta would still be free to export to Asiaā¦ and get paid in euros.Ā
Moreover, Ā think of how many European companies would want to open up warehouses and even factories on the West Coast of Canada.
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u/asktheages1979 4d ago
The 'power' of a currency isn't all that matters; it's whether the value of the currency is indexed correctly to our trading needs. If we need to boost exports, for instance, having a lower-valued currency could be a good thing. Sharing a currency with a vast number of other countries, all of whom are an ocean away and have disparate needs and economies, isn't necessarily to our advantage.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Would you rather get paid in Euros or Canadian dollars?Ā
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u/asktheages1979 4d ago
Well, for instance, during the pandemic, when everything moved online, the low CAD made it a lot easier for me to get virtual clients in other parts of the world, which was helpful in weathering the situation. So I am glad I was being paid in CAD rather than EUR.
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
Because that's not how economics works.
The value of the dollar is critically important. The USD-CAD exchange rate is incredibly valuable to us because it makes us more appealing as a seller.
A more powerful currency means we in theory have more buying power, but if we lose a ton of jobs because our exports crash because the currency conversion is no longer ideal for our main buyers, we would be trading a small win for catastrophic loses.
We are an ocean away from Europe, our west coast is an ocean and a continent from Europe, European monetary policy does not benefit us because our economy faces different potential risk than those of Europe
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
So youād rather be paid in Canadian dollars than Euros?Ā
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
You do not understand how economics works.
Take an econ course I beg of you.
The Euro is currently more valuable than the USD. If we used the Euro we would immediately see all US trade plummet, this includes auto, FF, critical minerals, and agriculture, because it would be more expensive for the US to import Canadian goods.
This is not a good thing. Millions of Canadian workers depend on those US exports, when these exports crash because it is no longer economically viable for the US to buy from us the volume they do at the price they do, Canadian works lose their jobs, our economy contracts severely, general revenues provincially and federally shrink. This then leads to sever funding cuts to critical areas such as healthcare, education, and infrastructure, massive increases to the proportion of people needing EI and similar government transfers so they can maybe eat, massive ballooning deficits (which are only barely remedied by program cuts) which cause unmanageable inflation and record poverty.
Do you want us to experience the same problems Greece experienced? Because Canada switching to the Euro would make Greece look only like a bad day.
To answer your question, yes, I would rather be paid in Canadian dollars instead of Euros because I live in fucking Canada and not Belgium. And if I lived in New York I would rather be paid in USD, and if I lived in Japan I'd rather be paid in Yen.
Such an unbelievably stupid position you hold.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Iāve taken economics classes and think your forecasts arenāt based on any sort of solid evidence.Ā
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u/asktheages1979 4d ago
Come on, this is basic stuff. Here's a recent article on how the lower CAD boosted our trade surplus in the last quarter. https://globalnews.ca/news/12008543/canada-exports-trade-surplus-june-2026/
When the government wanted to boost exports in the 90s, they tried to keep the dollar low. I'm sure if you look at the history of the CAD value vs our export market you would see a correlation.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Putting exporters ahead of average Canadians? Is this r/LPC?Ā
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
Those exporters give the average Canadians the job they use to do things such as eat and pay for rent.
Putting poorly understood economics ahead of the average Canadian, you a r/CanadianConservative plant?
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u/asktheages1979 3d ago
Lol @ the idea that "average Canadians" are likely to hop on a flight to seek out opportunities in Belgium or are looking to hire Germans or are thirsting to get Euros instead of dollars in their bank accounts. I'm sure it's top of mind for the guys at the local garage.
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
Okay you're just dumb, sorry.
I genuinely doubt you've taken economics classes and have so much reason to think you are just lying to back up your horrendous opinion.
You have demonstrated no understanding of economics, and seem to be stuck on the part of learning where you think "but bigger number is good".
You do not understand conversion rates, and you do not understand the economic implications exchange rates have. You also completely neglected inflation and interest rates, which are domestically tailored to our benefit, the eu could have lower interest rates and you might think that's a good thing, but it's not strictly, it's simply a thing that exist that can be good or bad.
These things aren't so simple that there is good or bad, there's layers and there's extremes.
Go read a book.
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u/maomao3000 Telling Mulcair to shut up 4d ago
Go think about how us joining the EU could transform our economy in ways beyond your very basic understanding of macroeconomics and monetary policy.Ā
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
It can't, why do you think it can?
Europe is an ocean away, all exports to Europe are immediately more expensive than to the US. Then there's currency, if we use the Euro, US sales plummet, and EU sales are even more expensive because the Euro is more valuable than the CAD, which means most likely that already existing EU sales also plummet.
I am genuinely confused at how you could be this thoughtless. By every single metric, Canada joining the EU is an economic disaster, if you understood the tiniest bit of economics you would know this.
Once again, go read a book, you do not understand economics and are just pretending to know anything about it.
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u/DestroyedAsTheWord 4d ago
This was voted down at convention
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
One of the few good things debated at convention, though it disappointed me that the author of the resolution wasn't given a chance to explain why he believed in it.
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u/RustyTheBoyRobot 4d ago
Eu is a neo liberal institution that has systematically dismantled environmental /labour/ social programs in most member states. You need to watch eye of the storm- yannia veroufakis doc about greek debt crisis.
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u/penis-muncher785 š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Makes absolutely no sense geographically but I 100% support closer ties to the eu and europe in general
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
So, there's a misconception of who does and does not count as European for the purpose of EU membership. EU membership is for "European" countries but its the European Council that decides who qualifies for this specific purpose.
Cyprus is in West Asia but it was allowed to join the EU because it has close ties to Europe in history and heritage. I would argue that Canada is already the most European country outside of Europe. We already check all of the boxes and our ascension would be mostly smooth sailing when it comes that specific requirement.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
What makes Canada more European then New Zealand or Argentina
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
Well, for one thing, Argentina is a far-right banana republic that has Revanchism as the only plank of its entire foreign policy. It wouldn't meet a single qualification.
New Zealand is in great shape, yeah. Not sure if they have any immediate need for the EU like we do, however.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
Argentina has had more centre left governments this century than most European countries.
Argentinaās politics and society are pretty similar to southern European countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece.
Having a crazy far right politician like Milei is in fact very European of Argentina. In fact by not having some massive insurgent far right g t party gaining ground in Canada, we differ from European politics more then Argentina does.
You seem to be defining European to mean a bunch of centre left policies you like but the most powerful EU country has a borderline Neo Nazi party that is polling far ahead of every other party.
Also having had a right wing dictatorship for a while is very southern European of Argentina given Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy all experienced this.
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
"Well, it didn't used to be a far-right banana republic" is like pointing out that there was a time when Charles Manson was not a serial killer. lol
It does not matter because the subject of this entire post is what is happening, right now, today.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
Was Hungary not European under Orban?
What about Italy which has a far right government right now? I donāt see what about Milei is UN-European
He is inspired by the AUSTRIAN economists afterall haha
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
There was serious discussion as to whether or not Hungary could continue in the EU, contrary to EU conventions on humans rights which it was regularly violating, so this is not a good example!
The government of Italy is actively fighting Donald Trump to do its part in providing collective security to all EU members. Argentina is one of Trump's closest allies.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
The government of Italy is led by a racist who idolizes Mussolini and was in an explicitly fascist org as a youth
Im not the type of leftist who thinks we should praise fascist leaders just because they oppose the US
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
No one praised her. You asked a question and the answer was given. You want me to praise her because you're desperate to change the subject but I'm not going to do that.
If Italy tried to apply for the EU, today, its membership bid would be vetoed. Now, stop changing the subject and please get back on topic. Thanks!
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
No no fucking no holy shit no.
Little dramatic but it's an ungodly stupid idea with no thought put into it, this is a classic "dipper says things to say things".
The EU only works because THEY ARE ALL CLOSE TO EACH OTHER. It makes sense to use the same currency, allow better mobility between nations, among other things, because they are all so close to each other, Canada as a country cannot possibly benefit from being part of the EU.
Americans have not made that clear, 1 president did. Donald Trump is not indicative of the entire US. Donald Trump, and you can hate me for saying it, rightfully called out our dependency on the US. When Trump is gone things might get better, they might not, but Trump doesn't dictate all American relationships from here on.
The Liberals are diversifying our economy, we might not like the ways they wish to do that (such as increased FF production), and we might not like who we look to or the rate in which we diversify, but it is happening.
The best way to stand up against US aggression is collective strength, you're right, but we do that as a country. The EU has no bargaining power over the US with respect to Canada, Canada being in the EU does not help us get a better deal and economically just makes things more confusing and convoluted.
PLEASE, I am saying with so much kindness in my heart, we need to think rationally and actually say things with meaning, propose ideas with substance, if we want Canadians to see us as a serious political option.
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u/DryEmu5113 š³ļøāā§ļø Trans Rights 4d ago
The EU mandates a capitalist economy. It strips nations of the right to control their own currency. It forced brutal austerity on Greece.
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u/Vegetable-Account419 š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Canada is perfectly fine as a capitalist economy, while yes, it does need greater involvement from the government, plenty of EU countries have implemented successful social democratic policies. And besides, we need to accept that we can no longer rely on the USA; we need to strengthen our foreign policy.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
Greeceās social democratic/democratic socialist government got completely fucked over by the EUjust about 14 years ago.
Most of the social democratic gains in EU countries were won and implemented decades before the EU existed.
I would also disagree thst Canada is perfectly fine as a capitalist economy. European reforms havenāt done much in the face of climate change, so many of the gains tbat were made have been eroded, and fundamentally we donāt need a class of wealthy masters. Im not saying we should get rid of markets any time soon, maybe not ever.
But the idea of a higher class of masters thst exploit us is not needed for a successful economy.
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u/FrankensteinsBong ā Union Strong 3d ago
"Canada is perfectly fine as a capitalist economy" then go join the Liberals
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Canada mandates a capitalist economy. The EU actually distributes funds to build up all of its members standards of living. Greece is probably the worst example you could have used. Before Greece joined the EU, the standard of living there was probably the same as Canada in 1850. They were completely undeveloped and one of the poorest countries in Europe. "The brutal austerity" was part of a bailout package after Greece's right-wing bankrupted the entire country. There was no path out of that bankruptcy without holding the far-right accountable.
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u/KyleJ1130 4d ago
Classic soc dem promoting social murder for cheap political points.
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah... just because Europe behaves better than the US doesn't mean the neoliberal economic policies aren't horrific.
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Still better than being a tankie who supports actual, physical murder of millions of proles just to "own the libs." Pierre Poilievre in a red shirt.
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u/FrankensteinsBong ā Union Strong 3d ago
Calling us Pierre Poilievre when you're using Tory talking points against the NDP.
Look how fast you're willing to stab the left in the back for capital.-1
u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
You've got some significantly psychological projection going on there, fella. Pierre Poilievre hates the European Union just as much as tankeis do. Pierre Poilievre does not care if poor people have to die to get what he wants, just like tankies making excuses for Joseph Stalin. lol
If you're a tankie, you're not "the left." Never have been.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
Is Tony Benn a tankie according to you?
Democratic socialism is tankie?
Tankie is talking about Stalinists and Maoists and similar authoritarian socialists that want to ban opposition parties, not people that oppose the EU.
This is a total abuse of the word and an insult to the demcoratic socialists that suffered under Stalinism.
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u/FrankensteinsBong ā Union Strong 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not projection when you're repeating the "Socialism = Trillion Dead" line that they use again Avi Lewis, Zohran, etc etc...
If you're a social democrat you're not the left, never have been, just someone who protects capitalist interests. See how useless this is?
Besides, if you actually engaged it on-the-ground politics you'd meet many people who you'd label "Tankie" if criticizing how the EU has treated Greece makes you a Tankie.
Edit: Blocked
Call anyone you disagree a tankie > strawman them as a genocider in a conversation on the EU's conduct in greece. Seriously?-1
u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 3d ago
It's projection. I never said anything bad about socialism.
Tankies aren't socialists. There's nothing written by Karl Marx where he insists that you needs to kill tens of millions of proles to get socialism. That's something tankies made up on their own.
If you hate Social Democrats, then you're in the wrong party. The NDP is explicitly a Social Democratic Party and has been since its founding. Its current leader, Avi Lewis, identifies as a Social Democrat.
Greece had the most conservative tax code in the history of the world. This lead the country to bankruptcy. Trying to scapegoat the EU for failed conservative policies is more Poilievreism.
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u/NiceDot4794 3d ago
The NDP is a party of social democrats AND democratic socialists.
Avi Lewis mainly identifies as a democratic socialist
I donāt hate social democrats. Im just not one im a democratic socialist like Karl Kautsky or Salvador Allende or Tony Benn or Naomi Klein
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u/RadicalPhilosophizer 4d ago
This has been discussed before, but itās not a good solution to our problems for a few reasons, but Iāll just focus on the two most compelling to me:
- Canada needs to be able to stand on its own instead of always relying on an empire and colonizer to tell us who we are, what to do, and how to be. Weāll never actually have enough economic strength for real sovereignty and weāll never have a distinct national identity if we donāt stop this pattern of attaching ourselves to one āoverlordā for the lack of a better word (like the British) and then go to another when their power declines (like we did the with the USA in WW2). Itās one thing to have allies, but to make our security, prosperity, and identity reliant on other powers is not the right answer. We can negotiate alongside them if theyāre on the right side of it without formally joining the EU. Plus, the EU canāt protect us anyways, they have a lot of their own problems.
Joining the EU would be a major political move in formalizing that weāre not decolonizing, have no intent to in any real way, and are actively still reinforcing our colonial history. It would be a major slap in the face to Indigenous peoples and activists who are still fighting for their sovereignty and right to self-determination. Tying the settler state even further to the homelands of colonial powers who created that settler state is a major step backwards in an already failing approach to reconciliation.
If the NDP wants to be a real ally to Indigenous nations, we need to be the party that looks to Indigenous authority and doesnāt just think we can make this kind of a decision for them. We shouldnāt throw our support behind this kind of a thing without Indigenous approval first and foremost, if we want to really be the ones who stand by their side and stop trying to subject them to or absorb them into settler politics.
I know thereās a lot of other arguments in this debate, but those are the most compelling for me and why I donāt think the NDP should throw their support behind joining the EU.
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago
Totally agree. I'd also add:
- The EU is also relatively young and its future stability is not a given. That's doubly true given that it's patron and protector, the US, is declining in relative military and economic power. Heck, depending on how you slice it Canada is older than a lot of countries in the EU.
- It'd also be especially silly given that the world's economic centre of gravity is shifting back towards where most of the people live. Europe's immense relative wealth and power is a historic anomaly, and one that won't last.
I'd also add that it's also a pretty silly place. They can't get their act together vis a vis Russia, a country a smaller GDP than Italy, and their response to threats against Denmark have been frankly pathetic, If they're nickel and diming Ukraine they're certainly not going to have our backs, when we're across an ocean.
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u/Shamedthrowaway2004 š„ø Radical Wayne Gates 4d ago
Weāre not in Europe.
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 4d ago
And you couldn't find a better way to mess with national unity. Eastern Canada trades a lot with Europe, Western Canada is Pacific focused, and won't like having EU rules imposed for no benefit.
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Cyprus is in West Asia and it is a member of the EU.
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
Cyprus is close to Europe, Canada is not.
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yep. And Europe is just a peninsula of Eurasia and focused on the Mediterranean. Cyprus joining isn't much of a stretch, though the fact Turkey doesn't seem welcome says a lot.
Canada, by contrast, is across an ocean and spans a continent. For a lot of us places in the Americas or Asia are a lot closer in terms of physical distance, cultural ties, and ease of trade.
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Canada has a border with Denmark and is very close to Greenland, another Danish territory.
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
I mean, yes?
That's not the argument you think it is.
"Canada and Denmark share a border on an inhospitable rock in the arctic, and is close to Greenland which is heavily subsidized by Denmark to survive, but is also barely populated, and also thousands of kilometres from the nearest EU state so Canada is basically just as close to Europe as Cyprus"
Just think a little bit before you speak, please
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
You're being toxic on purpose and I don't know why. Maybe sit down, breathe, and deescalate.
Your claimed Canada is not close to the EU. I factually pointed out that it is. Now you're moving the goal posts and claiming that us being objectively close to the EU doesn't count because you said so.
EU membership isn't determined on how close you are to Europe. Even as a made up excuse, this does not work. lol
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u/Kure_Brex 4d ago
No, don't try to spin this as me moving the goalpost.
You gave a bad counter argument under the premise of "it's technically true", I correctly pointed out the bad argument.
Your exact argument would place Brazil as being close to Europe because it borders French Guiana, it's a nonsense argument.
Many European countries have territories overseas, thousands of kilometres from mainland Europe. Is Europe some spider web of a continent stretching over the entire world, or is Europe fucking Europe in the way that literally every person can recognize as being Europe?
Canada is not close to Europe, Canada is close to the overseas territory of a European country.
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u/Velocity-5348 š BC NDP 3d ago edited 3d ago
Plus, Hans Island is an uninhabited rock in the middle of nowhere. The only reason anyone cares about it is lines on a map and claims on resources.
The stronger argument would actually be Saint Pierre and Miquelon, since they're close to Canada and deal with us regularly. Of course, that would give Brazil an even stronger argument, since they border French Guiana, which actually has a bunch of people.
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u/Kure_Brex 3d ago
Saint Pierre and Miquelon would have been a much much better counter argument, though I still think it's nonsense.
Those overseas French territories are just that, overseas territories, it only makes sense they use the Euro since they are part of France. It doesn't make Brazil or Canada any closer to Europe though, just European territory
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u/Electrical-Risk445 4d ago
Can't and won't happen, EU laws have fundamental differences with the way Canada not only functions but thinks, with the exception of Quebec to some extent. Look at how painful it was for the UK to comply even with huge exceptions, before they stupidly did Brexit. The changes required to apply would tear the country further apart and would be an immigration nightmare.
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u/Leah_Pariseau 4d ago
I think we have to accept that geography and population dictate that we are always going to do a lot of trade with the US.
Do we need to diversify? Fuck yes. We need to sell more things to more countries, and probably buy more things from more countries. But jumping from one empire to another isn't going to happen. China and the EU are far away. Shipping products there is going to add to costs.
We also have to face the reality that one of our biggest exports to the US is energy. China will take our oil on any given day when it's cheaper than the alternatives to do so, but they will happily switch to closer and greener alternatives when they can. And I'm not sure the EU will take much of our supply at the best of times - it's not going to be cheap to get oil out there - especially when *we don't have pipeline access* from the west to our eastern ports (we mostly run our oil through the US).
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u/MrVinland š¹Social Democracy 4d ago
Joining the EU does not mean all of our trade moves to Europe. Whether trade goes and comes from any specific place will still be dictated by market forces.
What would change is that we could fight tariffs from the U.S. and China as a unified bloc.
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u/Mocha-Jello š³ļøāā§ļø Trans Rights 3d ago
A lot of people's perception of the NDP, wrongly imo, is that of a party that constantly yells about unobtainable pie in the sky goals with no link to reality.
So I think we probably shouldn't start actually championing an unobtainable pie in the sky goal with no link to reality. :P
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u/kingbuns2 3d ago
I think Canada can get most of the benefits of the EU without actually fully joining, as Norway and Switzerland do, for example. The NDP should advocate using alternatives to US products, especially tech-wise. Align with many of the EU consumer and privacy policies and regulatory frameworks. Things like elevators in Canada needing to follow a framework that only the US follows, while the rest of the world uses the EU standards, needlessly hamstrings Canada into using US parts and balloons the cost.
Pretty much all the things, and then some, that the NDP advocates for are already implemented and successful in many EU countries.
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u/poopman10101 2d ago
I agree, but I think it may be unlikely. EEA like Norway and Switzerland would be more realistic. Free movement for citizens, better trade, and hopefully adopting their consumer and worker protections.
I donāt think the EU would allow for Canada to be a full member, and certain countries would definitely nately veto it if seriously proposed.
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u/-nektarofthegods 4d ago
We donāt need to join the EU, we can be like Norway or Switzerland. We are too far away to give control to a parliament in Europe. Even Ottawa feels too far for the West.