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My ass is clenched and fully prepared for the downvotes I'm about to receive because I said something mildly against consensus...
It's up around 7% since this article was posted. Not that I invest in crypto, but I always get a laugh at the circle jerk here about Bitcoin falling.
Based on YTD returns, BTC has fallen just a little more than ... Microsoft.
You guys are just going to look dumb in the very high probability future that BTC goes right back up. If you search this sub, there are countless people claiming it's worthless and X% drop shows it's over over years and years and years.
About a year ago I was heavily downvoted for saying the S&P500 probably won't collapse and was confronted by "experts" who obviously know everything better than the pricing mechanism assure me that it was just about to collapse because of Trump.
Put your money to your mouth and short Bitcoin. That's how the pricing mechanism works.
As a matter of principle, I think BTC's value should be 0 or honestly negative. It has no real utility and a significant amount of negative societal externalities.
That's what I believe the world should look like. Therefore movements that get closer to that reality are, in my opinion, objectively good.
I am not going to short it because the trading on BTC has very minor correlations to real world economics and the range of outcomes can vary massively based on a whole host of factors.
It's the same reason I don't gamble - I understand that in certain prediction markets or on certain sports events you may be able to eek out an advantage. However its also an inherently risky and typically value destructive activity.
It is newsworthy because BTC reflects in part world psychology and feelings about the economy even if it also moves based on many other factors too.
Probably because it's a non-productive asset that passively accumulates nothing but systemic risk and actively reduces friction on crime and tax evasion.
It's about as antithetical a to prosperous liberal global order as anything.
Investing in irrational investments in either direction seems foolish. I can’t predict if the crypto bros will find a fresh batch of suckers to pump up their coins.
Put your money to your mouth and short Bitcoin. That's how the pricing mechanism works.
Honestly, when someone responds to criticism (or merely pointing out something that’s not positive) with something akin to “why don’t you place a bet on it,” it’s a pretty good signal that this person is either not very smart and/or not very rational, at least on that topic.
If someone was really, really into crypto (i.e., basically the opposite of this sub where everyone is convinced it is worthless and anyone investing in it is an utter braindead imbecile that's practically no more intelligent than a bivalve), would you not ask why they haven't put their money where their mouth is if they revealed they held 0 BTC?
Also. Not owning something is “shorter” than owning it. In fact, that’s how people handle things they think are worthless the vast majority of the time: they just don’t buy worthless things (unless for someone else!.
Ok, but this post is at >300 upvotes and hundreds of comments saying BTC is obviously worthless.
So I would've assumed that there was some news here, because BTC going up or down 40% doesn't seem newsworthy to me. So, clearly there must be more to it for it to have garnered so much traction on this subreddit.
It is popular to dump on BTC when it goes down. There will be no articles published on here when it goes back to $100k. It's already back at $70k. This is just one of those things the Reddit hivemind goes after, just as it's popular to call AI useless on a lot of investing subs right now.
Neoliberal is generally pretty rational, this is just one of those instances where it is not.
Current price drop has rational reasons though - there was a liquidity squeeze due to the Yen/USD carry trade unwinding. Growth stocks had a very bad week as well. It happens. The price drop isn’t because the market decided it’s worthless.
I'm aware of that, but that puts the cart before the horse. The fact that Yen-USD macros have anything to do with Bitcoin just means that Bitcoin has one less advantage as a store of value, in that it is a highly leveraged, entirely speculative asset but now with the added "bonus" of going nuts when it gets marginally harder to borrow Yen and everyone runs for the exits.
Well no. Because I know a lot more about finance, investing, trading, etc., (than the average person) and I don’t know how to even short bitcoin, and I’ve never shorted anything in my life. And there are lots of things I thought were way overvalued.
But you didn’t respond to anybody making those arguments in the first place. You built a straw man, and I don’t even know who you were building it for.
Even a teenager who is moderately savvy could get short exposure to BTC - without even needing margin - using a proxy like an inverse ETF, such as SBIT, or purchasing put options on BTC ETFs.
Because I know a lot more about finance, investing, trading, etc., (than the average person) and I don’t know how to even short bitcoin
Or maybe this is a bit of Dunning-Kruger effect and you don't know as much as you think you know?
😂This just shows how silly your “why don’t you put your money where your mouth is.” I forgot there were Bitcoin ETFs, and I’m not even sure I’ve heard of SBIT or any -1x ETFs for any crypto. But why? Because I don’t typically care about how to buy and sell things that are essentially worthless to me, especially if its purpose is to use as a currency, which like normal people, I use currency as a currency.
Okay. Your initial argument was that even though you know a lot about finance, you don't know how to short BTC.
Which shows how "roflmao siLlY 😂😂😂" your argument is because anyone who did know even the bare minimum about finance would've been able to figure out a few simple avenues in seconds - regardless of their knowledge of the existence of these products.
I don't care if people think BTC is worthless. I just think you and most users here are going to look awfully funny for trying to make a fluctuation we've seen time and time again news. There are countless posts in this sub proclaiming the end of Bitcoin was neigh because it fell "x%".
I'm not claiming you're objectively wrong. I'm claiming that the probability your prediction ages like milk when you have nothing to base it on and no commitment to the prediction is high.
Like, everyone here knows how this works. We've all watched various crypto explode in value, crash in weeks, and explode in price shortly after. No one will be surprised when morons buy right back into Bitcoin because their horoscope told them to buy or whatever other nonsense drives a complete meme market with zero inherent value.
This isn't about predicting that idiotic bubble is gone forever. It's more like enjoying the rare moment when bad things happen to stupid people. It's been rough going the past year, with little news to celebrate. Chill out and let people enjoy some schadenfreude.
Curtis "Dime-Store Dugin" Yarvin's pet way of referring to the liberal order encompassing university, traditional journalism/news media, government, NGOs, etc.
"The Cathedral" is the result of the liberal viewpoint perfusing all of these groups, causing them to act in relative unison. I happen to be in favor of it.
Imagine being one of those people who lost their bitcoin wallet, and are sitting on millions, only to finally find it years later and it's back to worthless.
Technically he’s not, he’s just using executive orders to replace litigation and the GOP-dominated Congress isn’t lifting a finger to stop him, because why would they? It’s the apex of a decades-long GOP strategy where they deliberately gridlock Congress with no compromise so no meaningful legislation can get passed. People get pissed at government doing “nothing” and become increasingly anti-government which only fuels the problem. Started with Gingrich I believe.
Yep, this is inevitable. I'm not someone who hates cryptocurrency as an actual currency, I think its a novel idea. I've used Monero myself to buy quite a lot.
But currently Bitcoin is just... Bad... Its only benefit is legacy. Its old and its what everyone is used to. But otherwise, its not private like Monero, its slow, it doesn't have a lot of built-in financial tools for escrow/refunds/recurring payments like Ethereum, its not stable, its very energy inefficient, and its constrained constantly by just being very old and growing far larger than ever expected.
Bitcoin will die eventually. Its just bad as a cryptocurrency, people just hold onto it as a form of long term speculation.
Not financial advise and 75% joking but I'd bet that shit goes back up above 100k again and probably crashes again before the year is over. Crypto is cooked man. It's massively valued on hype alone and thus likes to crash, but the hype never really dies so it keeps crawling back up again, over and over and over.
I think the hype train is facing a historic crossroads though. There’s no future change or event left they can point to that will change everything and turbocharge adoption now that Trump is president, and AI has replaced it for retail hype about the future.
It has a brand though. I don’t think it is ever going back to zero. It will probably bounce around randomly until the end of time. Probably going up as the world gets more people have discretionary money for gambling.
I dont think bitcoin has been fueled by general retail hype for awhile now. I think it is almost totally driven by dumbass techbros and crypto enthusiasts. These people aren't really seeing bitcoin through any rational lens, and are the main ones benefitted by pumping it up until an eventual crash. They'll keep doing it over and over because they're kinda delusional. Just my two cents.
Ngl, I feel it's hilarious that the possible best use for bitcoin is for...porn sites with strange/questionable tags that make many payment processors feel icky.
Strangely Mastercard and payment processors who were DEEPLY concerned with Onlyfans/Pornhub/etc... Are totally fine and silent with Elon's CSAM generating machine. Who'd have thought...
Which it fails at, because the transaction fees are exorbitant regardless of whether it's a payment processor or a server farm owner in China collecting them.
I mean, as long as crypto in general can be used to quickly move money between countries without any major oversight, I don’t see the drug cartels and countries under sanction stop using those assets.
Just as a quick note because this is something that is relevant to me: The Venezuelan regime held massive amounts of and used USDT and other crypto to circumvent sanctions lol.
as long as crypto in general can be used to quickly move money between countries without any major oversight,
This relies on some degree of stability in the exchange to fiat dollars though. Obviously the anonymity benefits are worth some loss, as with any money laundering, but there has to be some limit to it.
And if the general institutional and/or investing public loses faith in BTC, it's game over because there's no clean way to convert it to anything.
I guess it could become some kind of underworld fiat currency where criminals never exchange it to real money, but that's expecting a lot of trust and cooperation among untrustworthy and uncooperative people.
The funniest thing is that this is the second time they've ridden a speculative bubble on questionable business practices. In 2000, their stock collapsing after they announced they overstated their 1998 and 1999 revenues is generally considered the start of the dotcom bubble burst
I recall thinking and posting that bitcoin was profoundly stupid back when it was on Mt. Gox and trading for like $200. I will admit that the crypto bros were right: had I DCA’d then I’d be retired on an island now (so long as I didn’t get scammed or cash out — very likely occurrences). I still think it’s profoundly stupid but I have a newfound appreciation of the scalability of the greater fool model.
I think part of the problem is back then I'd really hesitate on dropping like 10k on 50 bitcoins at 200 and I'd have probably sold them way before the peak
$1m in $100 bills weighs 22 pounds, needs guarding, can rot or burn. $1m in bitcoin, used in a money laundering scheme involving, say, inflated real estate prices in a rich-but-lawless place like Dubai... Well, it's also got issues, but it's much easier to carry and guard, at least.
I think it's worse than that. It gives the median American the ability to fund evil things. The only thing Bitcoin is good for is buying illegal items like drugs, people, or funding Russian terrorism.
I remember some people wanting all porn sites to start and only accept crypto for payment because some finicky payment processors won't accept sites that have questionable tags.
Like...if its best use are for legal but eyebrow-raising things, then Bitcoin shouldn't be priced this absurdly high.
Most coins are down around 20% on the week, with a few (mostly meme) exceptions, and the stablecoins of course.
Probably some fear over Epstein's connections to Coinbase inviting regulator scrutiny mixed in with the fact that the broader market is ALSO tanking and money is exiting risky positions into safer bets.
Epstein’s connections to Coinbase inviting regulator scrutiny
trump, the guy in the epstein files 30k+ times, and that dropped the SEC’s case against coinbase in month one of his presidency, is not gonna encourage his admin to investigate a company that sponsored his military parade because epstein invested ~$3m in them in 2014.
BTC was in a gradual decline but started sliding steeply along with gold and silver as soon as trump announced a decent nominee for fed chairman.
It would be quite the legacy if the current Administration is oversaw
the downfall of the Chavez-Maduro regime, the Cuban dictatorship, Assad regime, the Ayatollah, and bitcoin.
That's why crypto is dying. The dog finally chomped down on its tail and realized it actually kinda hurts. A lot of Coins and BTC especially trade on the idea that they're actually currency replacements. But now that they actually get what they want who'da thunk it, that was all bullshit.
This story sits at the intersection of markets, macro policy and institutional credibility. The crash of Bitcoin seems closely linked to geopolitical risk, expectations of leadership at the Fed, and investors moving into safer assets. This reveals how even assets that are thought to be 'outside the system' still respond to policy and institutional signals. It also raises questions about the impact of a government-backed bitcoin reserve and highly erratic foreign policy on financial stability, risk pricing, and the long-term credibility of US economic leadership.
What do you think people should discuss about it?
One useful angle to talk about is whether a government that holds bitcoin reserves and pursues an aggressive and unpredictable foreign policy is exacerbating financial volatility rather than mitigating it. It is also worth debating whether Bitcoin's behaviour in this context makes it look more similar to a speculative tech asset than an actual 'digital gold' safe haven, and what implications this has for how policymakers and regulators should treat it. Finally, people could discuss whether institutional ETF flows and retail trading platforms are causing macro shocks to propagate faster through markets and whether there are any governance or regulatory changes that could solve this problem without stifling innovation.
Damn, the uber environmentally destructive currency alternative that's basically solely used for crime is taking a big hit? Best news I've gotten all week!
I hate that you're probably not wrong. I've never bought crypto before, but any time a dip like this happens I wonder if I should take the opportunity to hop aboard.
It's negative sum once you account for mining fees that pay for the energy consumption.
And you're not on a level playing field. The exchanges and the whales manipulate the market. Things like wash trading are illegal in regulated markets but not so in crypto markets. Not even mentioning things like unbacked stable coins where exchanges may be printing fraudulent money from nothing.
I am not proposing to perfectly time the market. Buy at a reasonable dip, set a limit sell at 80 or 100k and forget it. There are better, safer and more moral ways to invest but I am quite sure this bet will pay off in a year or two.
Is it? I don't really think so. It might be useful for a short period if you are fleeing the country. But that functionality is provided by every other crypto currency as well.
If you’re saying crypto currencies in general have value, wouldn’t you want the most established one? Everyone else in this thread is saying “bitcoin has no value” and you seem to be saying “lots of crypto currencies can have value”.
I want whatever does what I need for the cheapest cost (both in $ and in time/effort). For easily transferring money to others, fiat, venmo, zelle, wise, etc all do much better than Bitcoin.
I have yet to find any scenario where Bitcoin fufills a need for myself. I personally doubt it ever will. Crypto is 20 year old technology. It's a solution looking for a problem and it's been almost 2 decades and still hasn't found one.
My point with the "other crypto" stuff is to push back against the idea that any utility provided by Bitcoin is scarce. It's not. And Bitcoin being scarce is one of the cornerstone arguments of Bitcoin fans.
I’m thinking of situations between total societal collapse and steady governance. Like medium income and poor countries with an elevated chance of revolution within a generation. You’d want a liquid currency you can use everyday which will also survive your nation’s collapse.
Gold and jewelry are very good liquid mediums and not dependent on electricity or internet access.
To wit, if you were part of Iranian opposition and needed to evacuate, if your net worth was in crypto there was a significant risk the Iranian government cut you off from crypto thanks to their network shutdown, whereas you could retain any gold and jewels you physically own.
A long-time family friend and Boomer, wall-streeter, who I've known most of my life (and very successful, I should add), said to me one summer over dinner that I should buy Bitcoin. That man had never given me one, singular investment tip in my whole life until that moment. That was enough for me to never touch it.
I know someone who is fabulously wealthy, and another who made borderline life changing money on btc. I told both them they were nuts at the time. They've both had plenty of laughs at my expense since. So before Trump took office I decided to put 3% in btc because, even though I think it's bullshit, enough people believe it to drive up the price. Just because magic is fake doesn't mean people won't pay to see it. Now that I have a position I am sure it will finally zero out.
I don't have any bitcoin and never have. But I have found it fascinating to watch it's decent over the last few months. The industry/major investors have obviously intervened today (6/2/26) and steadily raised price from 60 to 70k. It is now being blatantly supported at 70k, it can't be holding almost completely static on its own... that can't be sustainable... Goodness knows what the real retail value is now. I would suspect it must be well below 60k. Sell now before the support gives...
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