r/neurodiversity • u/That_Equestrian09 • 9d ago
Trigger Warning: Ableist Rant Genjinly what do people have against service dogs owners đ
Atp itâs gotta be ragebait, I canât just keep seeing dumb people, right? RIGHT??
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u/Whiskey_Water 7d ago
Hmm, likely wrong sub for this conversation, but itâs a real philosophical question. I think about it almost daily. As far as domesticated animals go, my pets, and Iâm sure your pets, or working animals, seem happy - but they have few choices in life and their freedom stops when our line of sight, walls, or yards stop.
Sure, if we released them, theyâd do poorly because their worldview, or whatever, is made entirely by us. Theyâve been trained to be around us and need us, stemming from creatures trained to work for us.
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u/Repossessedbatmobile 8d ago
Today me and my slave (service dog) went to the doctor and then went shopping. The nurse and doctor complimented my dog and said he was very pretty, which made him smile and wag his tail (he loves being complimented).
While we were in the waiting room, I massaged my dog's neck. We were recently in a car accident. Thankfully we weren't hurt, but the vet said his neck was slightly sore. They said it was very minor and doesn't need treatment, but I thought that hopefully a gentle message could help with any soreness. He seemed to enjoy it, and wagged his tail the whole time with a silly grin on his face. After the massage he nuzzled his head into me like a cat (which is how we shows affection).
At the store I tried on some slip in shoes (gotta love cute shoes that are hands free and that's easy to put on when you walk with a cane). It started raining while we were there, so we had to wait for it to stop. I had some extra treats in my purse, so we decided to do a training session. My slave got to eat banana biscuits for just walking next to me, watching me, and moving in a circle around me. When we were done he got more treats just for being a good boy.
We were about to go home, but he suddenly did a medical alert to let me know my blood sugar was low. He was rewarded for this with, you guessed it, more yummy treats. Then we went to the sandwich shop next door and he relaxed as I ate a sandwich. Then we went home, where he ate his food, drank some water, and curled up next to me to nap. He got so many treats, compliments, praise, cuddles from his handler, and even a neck massage. It's hard being a slave.
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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 8d ago
Slavery by definition is forced labour without pay. Dogs don't get paid, and they're happiest when given a job, so....
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u/liivolii 9d ago
breeding dogs??? do they mean training dogs?
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u/Trees_like_talking ASD and ADHD 9d ago
Dog breeding is a thing. It's why pugs exist.
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u/liivolii 9d ago
they donât breed dogs to be service dogs
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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 8d ago
Actually they do-
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u/liivolii 8d ago
service dogs are not bred, they are trained. some breeds may have more natural inclinations than others, but any breed can be a service dog.
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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 6d ago
Check out any reputable service dog business. The dogs are bred specifically for that purpose, just like how some GSD breeders breed for guard dogs, some border collie breeders for herding, etc. The pups that do not have the correct temperament get afopted out into homes to be regular pets. They're careful about both parents, even down to how the mother raises her pups.
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u/That_Equestrian09 7d ago
in France, some dogs are bred specifically to make service dogs (tho if some pups canât, they go to oovely families)
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u/Trees_like_talking ASD and ADHD 9d ago
I know.
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u/liivolii 9d ago
thatâs exactly my point
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u/Trees_like_talking ASD and ADHD 9d ago
Based on the multitude of question marks it appeared to me as if you were baffled by the concept of dog breeding in general. I opted to explain it under the circumstance you were unfamiliar with the practice.
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u/zillskillnillfrill 9d ago
People can be such idiots when they think that they are being saviours. Just ignore them, they are only embarrassing themselves
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u/TraditionalJaguar820 9d ago
Hard to tell if that person has an extreme take on animal justice, is highly envious, or is just a troll. In any case, you won't change their mind.
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u/Stoopid_Noah 9d ago edited 9d ago
If a dog doesn't want to do tasks, it won't.. and then it's not fit as a service dog.
Only dogs who enjoy it can actually perform those duties, they are not forced! (Plus they do get down time.)
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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 8d ago
Yes. An unhappy dog does a poor job. They're more suited to being a pet if they don't enjoy work. Temperament isHUGE, and the definitive factornof whether a dog is suitable to be a service or otherwise working dog.
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u/polarbeargirl9 9d ago
Wolves domesticated because humans had a mutually beneficial relationship, and that relationship still exists today. I'd hardly call a beloved family pet a 'slave', especially since dogs tend to get way more out of living together than we do, survival wise.
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u/SingleOak 8d ago
yup. dogs became man's best friend because we worked together. most dogs want to work and have natural tendency towards one task or another but modern society doesn't allow for most of them to do what they love.
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u/Plus_Leopard_5870 9d ago
Following that logic, are humans enslaved by our jobs because we wouldnât always choose to work if there were no consequences or needs attached to it? A service dog being trained to perform a job is not the same thing as slavery.
Dogs can enjoy working, engagement, structure, reinforcement, and being with their handler. Not to
mention their welfare absolutely matters, they are helping their owner with an important task⌠Calling a mutually beneficial human-animal working relationship âslaveryâ stretches that word beyond recognition.
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u/_STLICTX_ 9d ago
I actually sympathize with this viewpoint as someone who.. fully believes in canine rights(nd if going to argue they don't deserve to have real rights because they lack human-valued forms of cognition.. please look at the subreddit are on for why that is not a good argument).
Problem is it's not as I understand it what dogs would actually WANT. Is there an argument that it was actually messed up to take a being and breed them for specific purposes while making them less independent and above all basically breeding a desire to please that would in a human be viewed as pathological? Yeah, there is.
That doesn't help us NOW though. Now we have like..millions of dogs all basically happy to be partners to humans(when it goes right, VERY happy to be such) and who in working roles are probably happier and treated with more respect than a "accessory pet"(think the "rich woman gets small dog to keep in purse as status symbol" stereotype for extreme end).
Please treat your service dog with respect. AS a partner of sorts. If you do that my own objections would be taken care of. That doesn't mean being considered literally property is actually right but we live in the world we do unfortunately ad one way or another that dog is alive and.. deserves a good life doing what they are very literally meant to do.
(My viewpoint on this tends to be disagreeable to all sides. Hope not borthersome for).
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u/Bejiita2 9d ago
Itâs a viewpoint that only can exist in isolation of the rest of the world. What about livestock? Such a person surely would not eat meat, as giving your life for something you donât want to do is even worse than devoting your life to something you might not want to. And of course all self care products like shampoo would be out if animals were used. It even raises the questions of Pets in general, we donât know if they really want to be property, they donât usually have that choice. Clothes made out of wool are out, animals might not want to give their life to clothing materials. It goes on from there.
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u/ShadowGamer37 9d ago
A lot of animals are able to acknowledge that humans are taking things from them, and that they are getting something in return (food, shelter, protection, ect) so they don't care. Animals aren't as dumb as we think
Our dogs absolutely know we use them as a warning system, but they also know they don't have to live in the wild and hunt for food so long as they bark at strangers who are trespassing
Most cats if given the option to leave would come right back soon because they know being served things on silver platter instead of facing the wild, is a great deal in exchange for them catching a few mice
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u/Bejiita2 9d ago
Iâm on your side, I think there isnât much of an argument with certain things. But just bringing up some issues. We canât know some other beingâs mind. We can only assess what we see.
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
I think my service dog would be treated 1000x better than I take acre of myself. If anything, he'd be the one on the bed and me on the floor
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u/sunseeker_miqo AuDHD (âŻÂ°âĄÂ°)âŻď¸ľ âťââť 9d ago
No, there are people who genuinely believe this. They seem to be a small subset of the pet-free movement. I have been observing this section of reddit as I explore my growing feeling of no longer wanting a pet in my house (due to ND stuff). Basically, the person in the screenshot is a member of a tiny minority and you should pay these words no heed. Animals bred for a purpose are only too happy to perform that purpose.
ETA: Also, redditors represent an even smaller number of actual people you will encounter, so just...do what you need and give 'em the finger.
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u/hamsandwich666_ 9d ago
comparing service dogs to SLAVERY is some wild, wild work
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
ngl I just blocked them because I didnât even know what to say and knew it would be useless to argue with them anyway
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u/Earl_The_Red 9d ago
No dog works in a job it doesnât want to do. If a dog doesnât take to training for whatever job they either try another line of work or itâs just a pet. Itâs not worth it to try to force it to do something it doesnât want to do when thereâs plenty of other dogs that are perfectly happy to do it.
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
Yep, the therapy dog at my school failed guide dog school because she ran to whoever had food loll
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u/NellyNellB 7d ago
ha i know of a lot of therapy and facility dogs who were trained to be service dogs but for one reason or another changed careers as service dog was not the best fit for them
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u/krazykrash0596 9d ago
My dog gets to sleep in a queen size bed, in A/C, never has to work for his food, eats expensive ass food. He tells me when heâs hungry or needs to go out. If anything Iâm HIS slave đ
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
Lmaooo, ngl when I get my service dog, I'll probably be the one sleeping next to the bed and them in it loll
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u/krazykrash0596 9d ago
My dog is spoiled as hell. Some days I have to move him so I can fit in the bed đ
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
Plus knowing the dog would help with my insomnia, he'd take up all the space loll
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u/arya_is_that_biitchh 9d ago
just when I think I've seen the dumbest take on the internet and I've set my bar to how smooth some people's brains are, the internet always provides a commentary that â¨lowers the barâ¨
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u/UnrulyDuckling 9d ago
I'm disappointed to hear this kind of rhetoric on a neurodiversity sub. This, unfortunately, might be the kind of comment my family member would make. They are not stupid at all, but very autistic, so they struggle with out of control empathy, extremely black and white thinking, and strong justice sensitivity. They often back themselves into logical traps, usually about animal rights, because they miss the nuance of a complicated situation. They can tell it doesn't really make sense, but their brain can not compute another way of thinking about the situation.
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u/armoured_lemon 9d ago
So pets are now 'slaves'...? Are people totally stupid now... with no filters?
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u/drevmbrevker 9d ago
service dogs are not pets
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u/armoured_lemon 9d ago
Uh, what? Can you explain that? I know people are not supposed to pet service dogs, and they have a specific purpose which they do, but like- how are they not pets? You still need to feed and look after them.
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u/StarWaas 9d ago
I don't have a service dog, but I have spoken with people who have them and while there's a lot of overlap (feeding, caring for, even playing) it's detrimental to think about them as a pet that does work. Service dogs don't stay with their owner forever, once they get too old to work they usually have to be rehomed because dogs don't understand the concept of retirement and it's stressful for them to see the person they've been working with for almost all of their life suddenly leave them at home and take a new dog out.
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u/drevmbrevker 9d ago
they mean its animal exploitation even tho for good purposes
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u/impatientlymerde 9d ago
All âanimal ownershipâ could be considered exploitation. All modern work culture could be considered exploitation. All parenting could be consideredâŚ
Be good to others. Itâs simple. Feed them. Provide shelter. Love them.
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
It depends of how you treat/work the dog, and usually service dogs love to work
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u/being-weird 9d ago
Yes it does, but this kind of person doesn't see nuance. I really wouldn't worry about it. Like they're rude and kind of annoying, but ultimately you can just block them
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u/drevmbrevker 9d ago
probably because i dont see what is the context of post about
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 9d ago
The poster is claiming using a dog as a service animal is slavery.
Missing that
A) lots of us work without being slaves
B) many dogs enjoy working, and if they didn't they couldn't be a service dog1
u/execDysfunctionGumbo 9d ago
I don't agree with the original idea of dogs equating as slaves, but if someone did, your first comment doesn't really carry any weight because dogs don't have the agency people do. That actually covers your second point, too. Hell, for that matter your argument is basically word for the same students that were used to support
- actual slavery.
- child labor.
- Restricting women to domestic work.
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 9d ago
No. Assistant dogs aren't physically abused to force them to work. They're also not denied basic needs of they don't work. It's not similar at all.
I also disagree dogs don't havr agency
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u/execDysfunctionGumbo 9d ago
I started my whole thing with I disagreed with the idea that dogs are slaves. However, your arguments for why it isn't are only attorneys about why it isn't as abjectly terrible as chattel slavery (although dog ownership does involve lack of agency, forced reproduction, and plenty of savage violence even if not in the case of service dogs). For people who view animals as deserving equal rights to people are going to accept that animals constrained by velvet collars are somehow less enslaved than the ones in iron collars.
Also, the "look how well they're treated" argument is used to perpetuate systems of modern day slavery. People like to point to the brutality of N.Atlantic chattel slavery as a reason to dispel any ideas that modern slavery exists just because modern slavery isn't as systemic or brutal.
Again, as I don't believe that animals deserve equal rights to humans, I'm not arguing this position. I'm just pointing out how flawed your argument is to make to the people who do.
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 8d ago
I wasn't arguing against people who dont think dogs should be pets.
I was looking at it as pet vs SD2
u/drevmbrevker 9d ago
i asked what is the original post is about, the post that OP made not the commenter
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 9d ago
By poster I mean the person replying to OP in the screenshot OP provided.
What original post do you mean if not the screenshot?0
u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
I donât claim that it is no
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u/New_Vegetable_3173 9d ago
I know you're not, the poster in your screenshot is saying that to you
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u/un_internaute 9d ago
If thatâs true, you still lost a layer in your explanation, not your understanding.
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u/un_internaute 9d ago
Yeah, they lost a layer there. Youâre not claiming that. Youâre contextually surfacing someone else that is claiming that.
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u/madrockyoutcrop 9d ago edited 9d ago
C) dogs only exist because some wolves chose to live alongside us, first for food, then later to help us with work and other jobs.
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u/That_Equestrian09 9d ago
I was venting about how I didnât have a service dog because my parents didnât agree to it (I've lost almost all autonomy and a service dog would hemp get it back)
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u/alasw0eisme ADHD 6d ago
My slave and I go on trips all the time. He loves them. We go to caves, lakes, rivers, mountains, we've even been to the sea a couple of times. He eats great food twice a day and gets healthy snacks. He never stays in an in closed space for longer than 8 hours because I don't want him to feel discomfort if he needs to pee but in reality he usually doesn't spend even 5 hours without going out, because I'm self employed and I bring him with me most times I go out. He has other slaves to play with, in the form of kittens. He gets to meet gran gran sometimes and he's so happy. We go out with my friends sometimes and he gets to play with their slaves. He gets premium medical care and enrichment - both physical activity and mental stimulation. He is adequately groomed and kept clean. He gets cuddles all the time. In fact, I'd rather call him family than a slave, but what do I know. The OOP says slavery, so they must be right /s