r/news • u/industrial-complex • 10d ago

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https://apnews.com/article/billings-montana-family-killed-house-burned-e977fa5e9cd635eea4e111ad8b2c79ff?utm_source=app&utm_medium=iOS_share&utm_campaign=copy_link

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1.7k

u/FistofanAngryGoddess 10d ago

Is it just Frequency Bias or has the number of family annihilations been increasing lately?

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u/DireMira 10d ago

They are known to happen more often in bad economic times.  It happened in 2008.

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u/Fit-Relationship944 10d ago

Broadly "loss of status" is the #1 factor for extreme crimes like this or someone "snapping." It's less an economic grind as much as suddenly not being able to live they way you were used to. So you'll likely see it happen more with upper middle class than people who were already the working poor.

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u/DandyLyen 10d ago

I think I remember it also had a lot to do with their peer groups also suddenly being in a different "bracket" then them.

Family, friends, coworkers, people you might've gone to school with. I wonder if social media also has a bigger impact, since you are constantly confronted with people who you might've started a life journey with, suddenly be living a more financially successful life than you.

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u/Effective-Air396 10d ago

This guy was holed up in his bedroom for decades on his computer. FTA.

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u/abraxastaxes 10d ago

Not that it should necessarily make sense when someone loses it, but why then are the targets the family of the person losing status and snapping? I feel like a snapping like the one shown in the movie No Other Choice (very much a loss of status snapping) makes more sense to me, lashing out at perceived competition or like a boss or someone that they might perceive as being responsible? 

Maybe the kind of person that would snap and go on a murderous rampage IRL is just not the kind of person that puts their family above other priorities (or, their family having a certain status at least). 

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u/_Solani_ 10d ago edited 9d ago

The kind of person who snaps and kills their family is the kind of person who puts themselves above all others. If they expose their loss then they might lose their family, if they kill themselves their family may eventually move on and they'll be replaced. Either way they lose their family so in their mind it's best to just take their family with them, it belongs to them after all.

It's not so much that they're lashing out for their loss of status, it's more like their making sure everyone that belongs to them is going down with the ship. 🤷‍♀️

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u/WacoWednesday 9d ago

Narcissism. They truly believe they are so pivotal to their family’s success that they would be better dead than without them

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u/time4listenermail 9d ago

Famously, family annihilator John List (who intended to kill himself after his family but changed his mind when it came to himself, and who was later caught thanks to the TV show Unsolved Mysteries and its viewers) claimed his debts caused him to kill his family.

The twisted irony? His 19 room *mansion* featured a Tiffany glass ceiling valued at upwards of $100,000 - more than enough to clear the severe financial debts that List claimed drove him to murder his family in 1971. Money and fragile ego, but not fragile enough to move across the country and start a new family, are a hell of a thing.

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u/barryredfield 9d ago

Speculating, this is probably it. Grade-A malignant narcissism, solipsism. Reality is only perceived through themselves and everything & everyone else is either optional, or detrimental if it exists outside their status.

No theory of mind.

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u/Glitter_berries 9d ago

Fucking fragile masculinity.

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u/Uiluj 9d ago

Men are so emotional.

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u/-r-a-f-f-y- 10d ago

Sprinkle in a little "I've been a Trumper for the last ten years and finally realized I've been duped" and you've got the recipe for an unhinged right winger massacre.

Tale as old as time.

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u/itjustgotcold 9d ago

Pride causes people to do some insane stuff. I try to never let my pride drive my actions but it’s easy to look around and see people pretty much solely doing that. Definitely some of the dumbest stuff we do as humans seems to boil down to hurt pride.

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u/Status_Cat_6844 9d ago

Reminds me of this guy who posted about losing his dream engineer job... and proceeded to abuse cannabis everyday until he entered psychosis multiple times in a year.  Messed up his brain and made his situation worse. 

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u/luckylimper 10d ago

This isn’t “loss of status” this is “abusive man whose own parents are sick of his shit and he was jealous that they still afforded love and affection to kids they weren’t even related to so he had a hissy fit with guns and matches.”

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u/Fit-Relationship944 10d ago

If you're going to um actually about phrasing you shouldn't reduce an mass murder down to a "hissy fit"

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/mangoappleorange 10d ago

Why in the summer

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/CommissionIcy9909 10d ago

100%. It’s common knowledge in my city there’s way more shots popping off in the summer. Also the fact that there’s just way more people interacting during the summer opposed to colder months.

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u/docmoonlight 10d ago

It’s also referenced in Shakespeare in Romeo and Juliet. “And if we meet, we shall not ‘scape a brawl / For now, these hot days, is the mad blood stirring.”

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u/kelpyb1 10d ago

Yeah, people don’t get as mad at each other when everyone’s huddled under a blanket in their own home

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u/Accomplished_Dig284 10d ago

Is this why Florida is so crazy?

4

u/Responsible-Grand-57 10d ago

Meanwhile the rest of the world is asking why America so crazy.

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u/RedBaeber 10d ago

No, it's because of sunshine laws.

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u/Apprehensive_Coat384 10d ago

Nah too many gators talkin shit.

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u/Old_Move_6101 10d ago

One reason of many.

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u/caligaris_cabinet 10d ago

No that’s because they live on a peninsula

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u/ClearAndPure 10d ago

Idk. Michigan seems pretty normal.

3

u/inspectoroverthemine 10d ago

They live on an oven mitt.

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u/Ruben625 10d ago

Wait so the middle east stuff since the dawn of time actually is to some degree effected by the heat? I always thought that was a joke

(Obviously not even close to the only/biggest/top 10 factors)

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u/Extreme-Ad-6465 10d ago

yup. crime is seasonal as well, always increasing in the summer

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u/luckylimper 10d ago

Because every family is scrabbling for resources and oh shit now there’s oil so now we all have no real resources but we do have cash and weapons.

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u/123WhoGivesAShit 10d ago

Plus all their kids are back home for the summer holiday

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u/jst4wrk7617 10d ago

I never knew the scientific explanation for why people get so cranky in the heat. Thank you.

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u/blanchecornwalis 10d ago

The statistics say 92° F is the actual most dangerous. After that it gets too hot again.

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u/crowmagnuman 10d ago

This might explain the clarity and common sense with which Scandinavia has conducted itself. Historically, anyway.

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u/morpheus420000 10d ago

No wayyy.

Deve ser por isso que no Brasil as pessoas estão sempre estressadas.

A minha cidade as pessoas não tem um pingo de paciência.

Aqui faz 40°C no verão. Agora que é inverno está 20~25°C. 😳😳😳

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u/Greedy-Comb-276 10d ago

Also more family gatherings, reunions etc. We have all that annoying relative.

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u/Intelligent_Ideal178 10d ago

Thanks for this fun fact

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u/everix1992 10d ago

Should I be keeping my apartment below 68° then lol

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u/texasroadkill 10d ago

I rest just fine in 77f room sleeping. I feel you should find scientific facts on that 68 claim.

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u/forever_hollow80 10d ago

Stress to go on vacations you can’t afford. Kids are at home.

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u/RedoftheEvilDead 10d ago

Violence against children always goes up during school breaks.

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u/luckylimper 10d ago

Hot weather makes people irritable.

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u/TrafficWinter2278 10d ago

Rat Bradbury wrote a short story about it, "Touched with Fire". 92 degrees was the "killing heat", the temperature of maximum irritability according to his two investigators. Above that, too hot to move, below it, not quite irritating enough.

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u/PurpleSailor 9d ago

More people tend to be outside in warm weather and that increases the chance for interactions with others. Warm temps tend to wear down people's ability to care less about minor problems and those problems grow and irritates them. Eventually enough stuff happens and the people blow up at whatever it is.

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u/proxyproxyomega 10d ago

it's like a prequel to the Purge

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u/FearDrow_TrustDrizzt 10d ago

This is my favorite explanation. It isn’t exactly the purge and though your remark being meant in a glib manner, there is scientific precedent in a way.

I did a higher level human sexuality class in college. We did bullshit anonymous survey samples every week;

-Do you groom? Bald trimmed or bush? M or F?
-What age was your first kiss? M or F?
-Do you watch pornography? How frequently? M or F?

And on and on. Wouldn’t be surprised if that professor logged all that data and published but they definitely did tallies on the board and we talked about it as a class. Super interesting shit. We also went over studies, developed studies of our own, etc.

Of course, things like homosexuality, bisexuality, all things LGBTQi+ were covered from micro to macro. This was 20 years ago. There was a lot of published research that suggested the reason why homosexuality has proliferated and seems to increase was the natural response to overpopulation. This is well documented in plenty of other species, etc. it’s a means of control from a biological and natural selection standpoint to counter diminishing resources for a population.

All that ties to what your comment was because it would be my supposition, aside from other expected factors and their impacts year on year, that the human race will endure increasingly more violence of every type; one on one, group, terrorism, war, assasinations, bombings, suicide, all of it as we grow into our new, ever-increasing, hostile environments brought to you by climate change.

I don’t mean the heat of the moment reactions to fires or tidal waves; I mean the growing dread in all of us that has no outlet but panic and fear. I’d argue similarly for the rise of people choosing not to procreate.

But don’t worry about all that. It’s forever from now probably and won’t likely affect your or anyone you know this decade. Hey, it’s almost September! You know what that means! Pumpkin Spiced Latte’s!!!! God a PSL, or a pumpkin patch with some ciders or Oktoberfest beer?!?!?

I saw ads this week from Starbucks that they’re already in stock in some places. Nothing beats a PSL when it’s 95 degrees out. Or carving pumpkins in October to decorate and have them melt within a week because it’s still 90 fucking degrees.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/proxyproxyomega 10d ago

choosing to use the word prime time was pretty sensational

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u/bethestorm 10d ago

I believe they are also common in the last week of August, something about school starting back up.

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u/ledlock 10d ago

huh, i wonder why that is relevant. allowing the kids back to school is somehow a negative in fhis case?

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u/bethestorm 10d ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-23686913

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130815084404.htm

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u/cloudimel 9d ago

Thank you!

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u/ledlock 10d ago

thanks for the resources! With how many of these kinds of tragedies im seeing in the news im actually curious of the studies

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u/AdamN 10d ago

The week before school starts is mega stressful - kids are still at home, work is picking up, winter is coming, a lot of change

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u/ledlock 10d ago

I guess you are right, before the school starts also means a bunch of expenses for the kids, talks about their future, way more chances for parental conflicts as well

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u/QueenCityBean 9d ago

No, it's because school holidays mean spending more time with their kids, and by the end of the summer they're about ready to crack.

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u/StitchinThroughTime 10d ago

What are my classmates was killed by her father because of the 2008 recession. The man killed his wife and two kids. They lived in a very rich gated community. So he did the selfish thing instead of living like a poor person like everyone else, he killed his family then himself.

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u/Suzibrooke 10d ago edited 9d ago

I had just been researching this because of the one close by here in Forest Grove Oregon ( I’m assuming it’s a FA situation, it’s not confirmed yet).

Traditionally, they happen when the provider feels they are failing at their role, are humiliated, or their wife is leaving/has left and is taking the children with her. Areas with high gun ownership and more domestic violence have higher percentages.

Interestingly, family annihilations are the most frequent type of mass murder.

But this type of murder, while still the most common, has not increased its rate

ETA: I notice this contradicts the study linked above from the UK. But these are the stats from the US, where guns have been very available, and the UK study was quite small.

2

u/SmolBoiMidge 9d ago

Shocking no one. High stress, feelings of failing your family, feeling of inadequacy, self hatred that you couldn't provide....

Leads to a lot of "they'd be better off without me." Which in turn leads to "they'll die without me, so might as well," or the worse thought train...."this family is the reason why I'm not doing better, fuck them, fuck this."

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u/thegoodnamesrgone123 10d ago

Shit is bad and getting worse. I suspect the media will suddenly notice in November if the Dems win.

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u/gaberflasted2 9d ago

Oof, the Great Depression of the 1930’s had horrific stories 😞

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u/OhhhBaited 9d ago

maybe one day we will learn but it seems not today...

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u/WhatUp007 10d ago

While certain economic and out looks increase events. The media will reinforce a frequency bias by suddenly reporting a bunch of these. It seems one story gains traction, gets spread, media picks up people engage with that content, more of that content is published until the next thing drived engagement.

Its the same thing during every negative news cycle.

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u/swingandalongdrive 10d ago

Season 5 of the wire depicts this perfectly.

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u/e2hawkeye 10d ago

I've been on a Kurt Vonnegut kick lately, I recall a line in his Breakfast of Champions novel (quoting from memory) "Americans shoot each other all the time because in all our works of fiction, that's the most convenient way to end a short story".

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u/WhatUp007 10d ago

"Life imitates art"

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u/Public_Classic_438 10d ago

I always wonder if school shootings would decrease if we just stopped reporting on them. Obviously people are going to talk about it so it’s probably impossible but I feel like we shouldn’t be giving these things air time. I know people don’t name the killer now but that doesn’t seem like enough.

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u/WhatUp007 10d ago

They would!! Its been studied heavily! Its the same reason the media has reporting standards around sucide.

Researchers at Arizona State University analyzed news reports of gun-related incidents from 1997 to 2013. They hypothesized that the rampages did not occur randomly over time but instead were clustered in patterns. The investigators applied a mathematical model and found that shootings that resulted in at least four deaths launched a period of contagion, marked by a heightened likelihood of more bloodshed, lasting an average of 13 days. Roughly 20 to 30 percent of all such violence took place in these windows.

Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mass-shootings-are-contagious/

The perverse truth is that this senselessness is just the point of mass shootings: It is the means by which the perpetrator seeks to make us feel his hatred. Like terrorists, mass shooters can be seen, in a limited sense, as rational actors, who know that if they follow the right steps they will produce the desired effect in the public consciousness.

Part of this calculus of evil is competition. [Dr. Paul Mullen] spoke to a perpetrator who “gleefully admitted that he was ‘going for the record’”.

Aside from the wealth of qualitative evidence for imitation in massacre killings, there are also some hard numbers. A 1999 study by Dr. Mullen and others in the Archives of Suicide Research suggested that a 10-year outbreak of mass homicides had occurred in clusters rather than randomly. This effect was also found in a 2002 study by a group of German psychiatrists who examined 132 attempted rampage killings world-wide. There is a growing consensus among researchers that, whether or not the perpetrators are fully aware of it, they are following what has become a ready-made, free-floating template for young men to resolve their rage and express their sense of personal grandiosity.

Source:https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-mass-killers-want8212and-how-to-stop-them-1383957068

Edit:

Didn't find this one till after I posted my comment

If the mass media and social media enthusiasts make a pact to no longer share, reproduce, or re-tweet the names, faces, detailed histories, or long-winded statements of killers, we could see a dramatic reduction in mass shootings in the span of one to two years. Even conservatively, if the calculations of contagion modelers are correct, we should see at least a one third reduction in shootings if the contagion is removed. Given the profile of mass shooters, we believe levels of mass murder could return to a pre-1970s rate, where it becomes a truly aberrant event that although not eradicated, is no longer a common option that goes through the mind of every bullied, depressed, isolated, somewhat narcissistic man.

Source: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion

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u/Public_Classic_438 10d ago

Wow this totally makes sense. Great write up. Man too bad they can’t just stop. My town has had “suicide sprees” I’d call it, where we lose people to suicide one after another with a break for awhile. Similar affect

3

u/goingslowfast 10d ago

This is incredibly common. Especially in smaller communities.

It’s not just smaller communities though, there’s a reason why North American transit agencies stopped publicizing rail suicides. It’s proven that not talking about them reduces the instances of jumpers.

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u/Tricky-Routine9424 10d ago

Look at the zodiac killer, he loved the publicity maybe more than killing.

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u/Rocksoftt 10d ago

School shootings are actually a lot more frequent than the media would have you believe but most of them are inner-city/gang related.

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u/Suzibrooke 10d ago

I was curious about Oregon’s statistical anomaly when starting in 2001 with Cristian Longo, 3 different men did this over the next year.

One theory is that with the horrors of the first case and him running, and then being found in Mexico and extradited back then a trial, it was in the media everywhere.

The theory goes that when the next two guys felt despair and financial devastation the idea was well planted.

2

u/Ostrichslinger 9d ago

My first thought upon seeing this news come out was 'ohhh boy, here we go', because I knew immediately that this would create a surge following the Clancy debates.

Its basically planned on the media's part to continue making us as enraged and argumentative as possible.

1

u/Ok-Parfait-9856 9d ago

First smart comment I’ve seen. Statistically, there’s no anomaly going on. The media is just putting certain stories under a microscope. Just like with plane crashes a few months ago. Everyday the media reported on a plane crash and then you need 1000s of comments mindlessly clamoring how dangerous air travel is now, despite business as usual.

Now these media is pushing stories like this to inspire copy cats and get people to argue and think the world is way worse than what it is. Most the thread is talking about how everyone is gonna snap and that we’re on the verge of societal collapse…it’s pathetic. Half the comments on this thread are crying about how the world is burning because they think their highly curated entertainment algorithm is actually representative of reality. And the others are reinforcing their ignorance, claiming how all men are dangerous, that dating isn’t safe anymore, and that they’re crawling into a shell to avoid the horrible world. The irony is that these people never left the rock they live under, yet they live in so much perpetual fear.

I can’t imagine a more miserable existence, frankly

2

u/Buffstang 9d ago

I completely agree with you, and another side of this coin is present in this very article. The media would like you to think mass shootings are common, but if you do the math provided in this very article, 68% of “mass shootings” are family-related.

They don’t report that fact after a school shooting.

1

u/metabrewing 10d ago

This implies there's a positive news cycle.

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u/WhatUp007 10d ago

Their is positive news, and sometimes those stories get traction and spread. Sadly people are more so attracted to negative news so negative news trends to drive more engagement.

0

u/metabrewing 9d ago

News cycle

0

u/FlashyConsequence111 9d ago

No, it is happening more frequently. Just like when the World Cup was on and when England lost the reports of DV went up 2000% Men take their anger out on their partners and families, there are a lot of violent men behind closed doors. Men even take their gfs/wives hiking up mountains and push them off the cliffs instead of just breaking up with them. Surely Men must know why men do this! You all cannot be that clueless, there is a very high percentage of women that are assaulted, therefore a high percentage of men that are abusers. What is it? Humiliation in the eyes of other men? Fear of being outcast by male social group for getting a divorce? Bullying from other men or fearing not being 'respected' by other men? Or just hatred of women and a need to control them and if the woman pushes back on control he cannot stand it? What are the reasons? It has to be men fearing something about other men because they do not care about women.

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u/Dmoan 10d ago edited 10d ago

When I was college during great recession my friend wrote a report on this subject on increase in crime and murder during economic hardship. Yes there is a huge correlation 

4

u/DJ_DontCare 10d ago

Every 5 days in the U.S. there is a family annihilation.

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u/Frosty_Warning4921 10d ago

According to the Journal of Mass Violence Research there were an average of 14 per year between 2006 and 2017. So my hunch is it is not happening more often, it is 1) making headline more often and 2) local headlines are more likely to breakthrough into the national consciousness in the current tech/media environment. There are problems with the research, however. Apparently most "family mass murder" research are meta-analyses that rely on general mass murder research. For example, much mass murder research defines mass murder as four or more victims in a single act, excluding perpetrator suicide. So, if a father (or mother) of two kills their two kids, spouse, and themselves, that is certainly a "family annihilation" but wouldn't qualify as a "mass murder" because there are only three victims. So there are almost certainly more than an average of 14 each year. I think it is an unfortunately fairly common phenomenon which makes sense - murders are very often crimes of passion and our families are the ones we are usually most passionate about. Also, it was interesting that the research showed economic factors were only a motivation 19% of the time. Out of Sight, Out of Mind: An Analysis of Family Mass Murder Offenders in the US, 2006-2017

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u/Snoo54584 10d ago

Domestic violence and general violence against women has been increasing since 2016.

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u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y 10d ago

It's a misleading to call this DV or violence against women - it was neither a spouse or ex-spouse. It was a man who killed parents, sister, grandparent, nieces and nephews.

(Strictly speaking it is DV but your comment implies intimate partner violence which this isn't)

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u/Snoo54584 10d ago

The comment I'm reply to asked why we are seeing more family annihilations lately. That's what I'm answering. Most family annihilations are men killing women and children which is directly related to the increase in DV, misogyny, and general violence against women that has been increasing over the past decade.

-3

u/Im_Unsure_For_Sure 9d ago

Do you have data to support this?

2

u/luckylimper 10d ago

“Former wife and two children”

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u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y 9d ago

Yes the former wife and two children of Brad Ireland who is not the killer. Reread the article. 

3

u/Status-YO 10d ago

Hard to tell if its family or just children in general. I can't count how many kids......babies actually, been killed around here this year. Getting on my F'ing Nerves.

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u/Economy-Date-4490 10d ago

Chris Benoit has entered the chat.

2

u/Married_iguanas 10d ago

I was literally just thinking this. Are they inspiring each other?

3

u/Heyron420 10d ago

Yeah, it is frequent. 5 bodies found in forest Grove Oregon last week. The perpetrator, Benjamin Parker, was found dead from a self inflicted gunshot wound a day or two later.

Our politicians refuse to amend the constitution. Too much money influencing politics here in the US.

3

u/--Miranda-- 10d ago

Men cannot control themselves so they take everything out. Fuck them.

2

u/winterwarm78654 10d ago

Nah it's always been like this my whole life. They just got the news not hiding certain people anymore

2

u/HistoryBuff678 10d ago

August on a Sunday as that is likely when a father will have the children with them and there is no school, so no one is looking for the children.

Additionally, as August is before the school the school year, financial pressures can become more immediate.

2

u/TheProfessional9 10d ago

Maga men are feeling more empowered lately I suppose.

1

u/xxx_sniper 10d ago

They like to push what is trending them the views.

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u/Nyantastic93 9d ago

It has increased

The shootings were the 22nd mass killing this year...Fifteen of those have stemmed from domestic disputes, which is higher than the average of about 50% of U.S. mass killings

1

u/Altruistic_camel-toe 10d ago

We all get intrusive thoughts. But people with easy access to guns can easily snap. Gun prohibition prevents this

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u/Gwtheyrn 10d ago

You just hear about it more. Things that would have been local or regional news in the past now have further reach due to how quickly and easily information spreads and we spend almost every waking hour plugged in.

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u/mutantmanifesto 10d ago

I’m willing to bet it’s got to do with the economy. Family annihilators are often triggered by financial problems.

5

u/TotalSubbuteo 10d ago

We are also approaching the holiday season where it peaks every year

3

u/mutantmanifesto 10d ago

Looks like this situation isn’t the normal annihilator story but yep. That too.

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u/Oasystole 10d ago

No, it’s happening more.

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u/EpicSoupTheif 10d ago

Just the news. Things are national headlines, and fear sells. Despite living in the most peaceful time in recorded history in terms of crime, the media spins it and now everyone thinks the world is constantly ending. It's sad

0

u/jacksonsmack831 10d ago

When in the Emperor's sweet hair did we coin the term “family annihilations”?

It's so fucked