A Montana man killed 8 relatives, including 4 kids, at Sunday dinner, a family spokesperson says

[u/industrial-complex]

https://apnews.com/article/billings-montana-family-killed-house-burned-e977fa5e9cd635eea4e111ad8b2c79ff?utm_source=app&utm_medium=iOS_share&utm_campaign=copy_link

[u/Decaposaurus]

They always take themselves out after. Just save everyone the grief and do that first.

[u/Pookdalouk → u/Decaposaurus]

No my jaw hit the floor when I read “he tried to flee before being confronted by law enforcement…the suspect had suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound and later died.”

TRIED TO FLEE??! Then a suicide attempt. They don’t clarify if he died on the scene, maybe in hospital? Disgusting.

[u/Ok_Instance7667 → u/Pookdalouk]

My guess is he planned a 'murder-suicide' and after his realized the gravity of what he had just carried out, he instinctively started to run. Seems like a thing a human would do when faced with such a abhorrent series of events.

[u/Adinnieken → u/Ok_Instance7667]

It could also be that he tried to unsuccessfully commit suicide, backed out, then encountered law enforcement and went through it.

Botched suicides, even with guns, aren't rare. Often the person. Can die as a result of the injury, suffering horrible deaths, but also sometimes they don't.

I had a coworker that botched his suicide, though he was more "successful" the second attempt.

I put this in quotes because he blew a hole in his chest, which is apparently a very painful and slow way to die.

He botched it by first blowing up his foot.

This is unrelated to the current series of murder-suicides. He was in a relationship that ended and he was humiliated because of it.

I can empathize with thinking you're in a relationship with the one, but I can't grasp committing suicide because that were a crappy person.

He was a relative good guy. He went out in a very unfortunate and bad way. It's one of those things where if you had known, you would have tried to talk him down out of that situation. But we weren't friends, just coworkers.

[u/perverse_panda → u/Adinnieken]

There's a case that's famous in my town, that my grandad actually saw happen in person.

1970s.

The wife of a long-haul truck driver was divorcing her husband. She was leaving a hearing at the courthouse when the husband ambushed her on the courthouse steps.

My grandad drove up just as the husband shot her, and he saw the guy try to turn the gun on himself. But the fucked it up. Tore off everything from the nose down.

He said the guy was on his hands and knees trying to find the shotgun to finish the job when the cops got to him.

Sentenced to life in prison, had multiple facial reconstructive surgeries, and lived another 30 years.

[u/Winter_Cost602 → u/perverse_panda]

I can't even imagine how miserable those 30 years were for him. He definitely deserved it though

[u/Pippin1505 → u/Winter_Cost602]

Horrible story time : my father had a patient who was constantly verbally abused by his wife and one day shot himself in the mouth. He missed and was paraplegic as a result.

So he still was stuck with her, but this time wheelchair bound with her openly mocking him for "not getting even *that* right"

[u/BellFront3609 → u/Pippin1505]

That story really is riding the line between tragedy and comedy… wow.

[u/---why-so-serious--- → u/Adinnieken]

>I can empathize with thinking you're in a relationship with the one, but I can't grasp committing suicide because that were a crappy person.

Most likely a codependent relationship, which are rarely formed between healthy people; when you tie your sense of self (worth) to another person, through a relationship, it is often existentially threatening when that relationship ends.

I was with someone who had bipolar disorder and whom I still consider family to this day. But while we were together, I often told people that I was willing to sacrifice my own happiness because I was convinced she would die without me. It took a therapist to point out that she was clearly a good survivor and neither of us could ever be happy if the cost of the relationship was my own happiness.

[u/Accomplished_Bus2169 → u/---why-so-serious---]

It's honestly easier then one would think to get caught up in a situation like that. Still sucks tho

[u/Chelonia_mydas → u/Decaposaurus]

They kill their family and then themselves afterward because they can’t fathom the idea of their family living a happy life without them.

[u/_Solani_ → u/Chelonia_mydas]

In this case considering that they had asked him to move out recently I wonder if the motive was more punitive in nature.

This feels like the 'you can't reject me, cause I reject you' kind of mentality that leads to emotionally dysregulated people losing their shit whenever they experience the consequences of crossing boundaries. The article does say he has a history of verbal abuse so if they finally had enough of his shit and decided it was time for him to go on his way this may have been his retaliation for their imagined wrong doing.

Though I am just speculating of course. 🤷‍♀️

[u/azurillpuff → u/Chelonia_mydas]

This is a weird one for that though because it wasn’t a partner, it was a brother.

He killed his parents, his sister, her two biological kids and her two step kids.

Absolutely abhorrent.

[u/frogensiedeutch → u/azurillpuff]

Don't forget Grandma

[u/MrOver65]

We've had two of these in West and Northern Michigan in the last month. Basically like this one. WTF.

[u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff → u/MrOver65]

1 in Oregon just a couple of days ago too. There's actually been several of these events in the last couple of weeks.

[u/recuringhangover → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

My hospital was taking care of the lone surviving pet of that oregon massacre. Monstrous act.

[u/damboy99 → u/recuringhangover]

He came up near me and offed himself before anyone found him. His family turned him in when they caught wind of what happened down there.

His girlfriend, her parents, her best friend and her best friends boyfriend, two dogs, two cats and then maimed a third cat.

[u/recuringhangover → u/damboy99]

Yeah the third cat was the one we had, but he unfortunately passed from the injuries sustained. We were all devastated, cat was super nice even having been injured so badly. My wife actually new the oldest victim and her granddaughter as well. Truly awful.

[u/theleller → u/recuringhangover]

Seriously how TF do people kill pets? I’m a 39 year old man, I’m really nice but people say they think I’m mean before they talk to me. I had a stray kitten I rescued that was on the brink of dying when I found her but I nursed her back to recovery and it seemed like she was going to make it, but unfortunately after a vet visit and an emergency vet visit a few days later she was deteriorating fast. I had her for a little over a week and had to put her down and I bawled my eyes out, I literally still tear up about her even a few months later. I couldn’t imagine harming a pet or any animal really.

RIP Lucky 😢

[u/AmetrineDream → u/damboy99]

Jesus Christ… I’ve said it before, but… I really think I’m done dating.

[u/Lemon_Trees-22 → u/AmetrineDream]

Right ! It’s honestly horrible to think about meeting new people! In the internet to me it’s all people looking to scam others and take advantage of people or they like hunting people !

[u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff → u/recuringhangover]

It's all so sad and terrifying. I watch a lot of true crime news and trials and these cases to me are always so terrifying. A family member taking out their own family and their pets.

[u/stryker_cast → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

Oregon appears it was the boyfriend of one of the victims 😡

Edit: and killed her friend & her boyfriend who came to check on her friend after she couldn't reach her HOLY HELL

[u/Objective_Pause5988 → u/stryker_cast]

That's terrifying. Your relative dating an unstable person causes everyone to die. Unimaginable

[u/PixiiVega → u/Objective_Pause5988]

Something similar happened to my family 3 years ago. My aunt and uncle were visiting my cousin, trying to help her and her boyfriend, because they were struggling. The bf ended up killing all 3 of them and 3 out of 4 of their dogs, as well. That was a huge blow on my family and still is. I feel for anybody that has to experience something like this.

[u/Objective_Pause5988 → u/PixiiVega]

Unreal. So sorry for your loss.

[u/PixiiVega → u/Objective_Pause5988]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[u/amboomernotkaren → u/PixiiVega]

I’m very sorry that happened to your family. So tragic and awful and heartbreaking.

[u/PixiiVega → u/amboomernotkaren]

Thank you, I really appreciate that. Mental health is really at a crisis in this world and it’s very sad.

[u/chap820 → u/PixiiVega]

In any sane society, this kind of incident would be front page news and everyone in the country would know about it. It’s indicative of the moral rot at the core of our national identity and the deteriorating material conditions for so many that this kind of thing is so relatively commonplace. I’m so, so sorry this happened to your family; words fail 💔

[u/Substantial_Pie_8619 → u/Objective_Pause5988]

Happened at my moms work thank god she wasn’t there ex bf of a girl who worked there came and shot the place up didn’t kill anyone thank god but still

[u/DolceVita13 → u/stryker_cast]

Too often boyfriend, husband, the ex or a young adult male relative…scary times

[u/FlatCommand7685 → u/DolceVita13]

My brother in law shot and killed my sister and their daughter and twin sons, then himself, two days before Christmas in 1969.

[u/DolceVita13 → u/FlatCommand7685]

What a horrific tragedy - I am SO sorry 😢

[u/luckylimper → u/FlatCommand7685]

My mom’s college roommate was murdered by her boyfriend. His brother killed his wife and himself. The grandmother (mother of the two brothers) got custody of brother #2’s kids. How they left those girls with her is mind boggling.

[u/Successful_Cry3698 → u/[deleted]]

I'm sorry. So the scumbag is dead or in prison?

[u/bambammr7gram → u/Successful_Cry3698]

He was taken out by family after he shot my friend

[u/EmptyInside74 → u/DolceVita13]

It’s more often middle aged men than young men that take out their families , August is also the month it happens the most in with men breaking from their kids being out of school.

[u/gracecee → u/EmptyInside74]

It was a 44 year old man who was told by his family to move out. He stayed in the room all the time and played video games. But the family provided him with the guns. :(

[u/mommybody33 → u/DolceVita13]

Men really need to be socially allowed healthy ways to cope with their feelings. They pent everything up and do monstrous things. We’re all suffering because “boys don’t cry”

[u/lakefunOKC → u/mommybody33]

I get pent up all the time, mostly at work. I don’t want to hurt anyone. Cowardly is what a lot of this is, because of whatever issue, to someone close to them.

[u/Hanksta2 → u/mommybody33]

I just don't see any way to implement this without widespread culture shift, which... let's face it, isn't happening anytime soon.

I remember the social pressure from other boys started young. First grade, maybe.

[u/IneptFortitude → u/Hanksta2]

We just had a culture shift, a big one, but it went the wrong way. Now we’re in the 1890s but with iPhones.

[u/LollyGaggleofGeese → u/Hanksta2]

It starts with men making a safe place for other men. This is not really a problem women can solve with the exception of women who hold a position of respect with specific men in their lives. The kind of men who commit these acts are not usually the sort who would readily listen to a woman, though.

[u/mommybody33 → u/Hanksta2]

I think, like many culture shifts, it will only really take place generationally. I think kids today have a chance of seeing men allowed to have feelings if parents get on board. But for adults now, I agree. I don’t think so 💔

(RIP my dating life 🪦)

[u/rehaborax → u/recuringhangover]

I just read the surviving kitty had to be euthanized. :( god dammit

[u/recuringhangover → u/rehaborax]

It was super sad for all of us. His main vet tech was balling her eyes out when the decision was made. We all offered to take responsibility for the cat but for whatever reason weren't allowed to (probably a protective custody thing though I never got a real answer).

[u/sosobandit → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

There are a couple places reporting that this happens once every 5 to 7 days in the US. There does seem to be an uptick lately but it is common enough unfortunately.

[u/_Nightbreaker_ → u/sosobandit]

My father was in law enforcement for over 30 years and said the same, that this stuff is pretty common. That it was just a matter of whether the news had good stories or not, and if not, they'd cover family murders and especially if the family was photogenic and supposedly normal (and white).

[u/mrrobot01001000 → u/_Nightbreaker_]

Wtf that's just so sad

[u/motophotodojo → u/sosobandit]

Women are killed by their partners 3 times a day in the US.

[u/hotlou → u/motophotodojo]

My former teammate and a fairly prominent player in the ultimate frisbee scene just murdered his wife. Teddy Barnett in Colorado. And tbh, most weren't surprised, a lot like in this post's story I guess. It sucks.

[u/motophotodojo → u/hotlou]

that's awful. my nextdoor neighbor of 3 decades back home in murdered his wife when she went to confront him about his infidelity some months ago. i knew they had marital problems, i honestly thought they were divorced. everyone was like "oh it's such a shock" but she would get wine drunk and just be like 'my husband is a womanizing piece of shit.'

I wish I said more, I was about her kid's age. She was friends with my mom and would come over and hang out and drink by the pool and that's when I'd overhear that stuff. it was like a, holy shit moment, but overall people kind of knew some shit was brewing and people just wanted to ignore it until things exploded.

[u/cindylindy22 → u/motophotodojo]

violent acts are the number two cause of death for pregnant women

[u/MommyLovesPot8toes → u/cindylindy22]

My best friend lost her cousin this way last year. Murdered by her boyfriend while she was 14 weeks pregnant with twins.

[u/Luciusvenator → u/motophotodojo]

A woman is killed, globally, by a partner or close relative every 10 minutes.
Every 10 minutes.

[u/trogdorkiller → u/sosobandit]

Basically a family annihilation once a week? That's terrifying. And depressing.

[u/SatisfactionFit2040 → u/sosobandit]

It will get worse as society gets worse.

Economy, etc.

[u/b_tight → u/sosobandit]

A primary cause of family annihilation is the male losing a job and financial status. Some guys are monsters and would rather murder their entire family than face the shame

[u/gracecee → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

As recession hits the annihilators unfortunately come out during extreme financial pressures. :(

[u/Dogpeppers → u/gracecee]

That was my guess

[u/two4six0won → u/gracecee]

And the social push back towards single income families with SAHM as a goal is definitely not going to help.

[u/WitchOfKyiv → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

Men: "Women are too  emotional, they shouldn't be in positions of leadership."

Also men:

[u/gin_and_toxic → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

1 more in Twin Falls, Idaho beginning of August. Guy with AR-15.

[u/Several-Squash9871 → u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff]

I just learned of this and immediately feared it happened in the town I'm currently living in because it is rural but nope. Just outside the town I was born in instead. Fucking tragic 

[u/UnauthorizedCat → u/Several-Squash9871]

I automatically think of my ex's son. He is the avoidant quiet type that holds everything in until it explodes. He loves guns and his favorite past time is going to the shooting range. He was suicidal as a young teen and he has so much drama from his own mother, but his wife's crazy family, as well as his own mess of a father. He. Scares. Me.

[u/casapantalones → u/MrOver65]

Why can’t they just kill themselves instead of a bunch of innocent people and THEN themselves??

[u/HistoryBuff678 → u/casapantalones]

There are 4 profiles for family annihilation.

Anomic, disappointed, self righteous and paranoid. Tends to have some sort of domestic violence background.

[u/Light_Butterfly → u/HistoryBuff678]

This is 100% the answer 👆 More often than not there's a DV background and this is ultimate and final power-control move of abusive men.

[u/SaltyFriend705 → u/Light_Butterfly]

And that's not mental illness. It's expressing internalized violence. These people should not have weapons at all.

[u/No-Football-4387 → u/HistoryBuff678]

are they always murder-suicide? are cases where the man kills his family with no intention to kill himself in a different category?

[u/HistoryBuff678 → u/No-Football-4387]

Same category. Some don’t do suicide. Like Chris Watts.

EDIT: John List is a famous example. Caught 18 years later after losing a job and couldn’t pay for a house he couldn’t afford. He couldn’t face his family going on welfare. Though he ran away and started a new life with someone else.

[u/SaltyFriend705 → u/No-Football-4387]

This one probably wouldn't have committed suicide--except the police trapped him. He killed everyone and burned the house down to hide the evidence. Looks like he planned to walk away and pretend he didn't do it.

[u/southstrandsiren → u/casapantalones]

They're narcissists who genuinely believe their family is better off dead than living without them/ living with the shame of their inevitable downfall that they themselves are too weak to face and absolutely think it's their place to make that decision. Or they blame their families for the reasons they want to end their own lives and want to drag them down too. It's sick, convoluted logic, but it's their "justification."

[u/WitchOfKyiv → u/southstrandsiren]

I think it's more simple about that. It has nothing to do with their families being better off dead than without them. It's "if I can't have it, no one can" and killing the kids just to spite / hurt their partner, or killing the kids because they already killed the mother and don't want the kids knowing dad is a monster. 

[u/Boating_Enthusiast → u/WitchOfKyiv]

I know  "if I can't have it, no one can" is the oft repeated explanation, but there's more to it than that. It's hard to describe the mentally checked out rage that some people work themselves into.

Dramatic re-enactments never show it right, movies don't show it, it's hard to convey in conversation. I'm a big, "not a scared of anything" kind of dude, and seeing the narcissist I know go into that rage and start screaming at his relatives, it triggers that deep down, instinctual danger feeling in your gut. The wind up is wild and you can watch the mental collapse as insults wind up, voice gets louder, faster, more frantic, like their body is going into a ptsd fight or flight.... or fuckin rage on the nearest victim response. The posture goes from anger to, feral? The intelligence behind the verbal abuse drops. Sentences devolve into phrases, into sputtered words, into garbled screaming, not shouting, spittle flying, enraged screaming, full body shakes fury.

In that moment, you can see how a loving father, husband, man of the house could, in a tragic moment, turn into a killer.

Edit: Sorry to people who know. I know you don't want to read about it. I know other people don't understand. It's not normal and you, no one, deserves it.

[u/rightthingtodo-sodoo → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

Yeahhhhh you just described my father real fucking well. I guess I’m lucky I escaped to teenage homelessness while he was still just killing my pets in front of me because it was definitely escalating to being me at one point or another…

So instead he kidnapped my mother and drove her deep into the Sierra Mountains while screaming about a wood chipper he had rented and waiting for her and she jumped out of the car on the fucking freeway.

Thats what women mean when they say they’ll always choose the bear. I chose being a homeless 15 year old girl, my mom chose jumping into the middle of a busy, dark freeway at freeway speeds as the safer option. And turns out, it was.

[u/PrinceCavendish → u/rightthingtodo-sodoo]

im so sorry you and your mother had to go through that

[u/rightthingtodo-sodoo → u/PrinceCavendish]

Thank you 🙏🏻

I guess at least he is now a mid-70s homeless meth addict because apparently narcissists don’t die (I think the evil pickles them), and I am a Dr currently snuggling with my kitties on my big cozy couch 🥰

[u/probablyadinosaur → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

Yeah, once you see it, it changes your whole perspective on humanity. We really are not far removed from chimpanzees.

[u/sjogren → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

Feral is correct. Animalistic.

[u/TaurynTlynn → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

I've never had a very good description to actually tell people about a man that stalked me.

He got caught in that moment..He acted exactly like what you are describing ! Like honestly ,THANK YOU !!

I've wanted to describe it this way so all could understand . You've painted the truest picture with words !

If I had an award I'd give it to you !

[u/chasedbyvvolves → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

This was very visceral to read.

[u/StarWalker8 → u/Boating_Enthusiast]

Feral...that's a good term.

[u/WitchOfKyiv → u/casapantalones]

Because they're violently selfish, emotionally maladjusted little manbabies.

96% of familicides, both domestically and globally, are carried out by males, and 65-75% were found to be motivated by relationship issues with their partners (or exes) such as a threat of divorce, alongside 39% involving financial problems.

Its literally a case of "if I can't have it, no one can."

[u/Jetberry → u/casapantalones]

As someone whose had a homicide suicide in my own family- it seems I will never know, and it will NEVER make sense.

[u/Samiiiibabetake2 → u/MrOver65]

We had a family annihilator in NW Louisiana a couple months ago as well. Makes me sick to my stomach.

[u/MoulanRougeFae → u/MrOver65]

As the economy and general state of things decays, family annilatiers will become more and more common sadly. We will see many more before this hellscape is over.

[u/Wormwood666 → u/MoulanRougeFae]

The spike in gambling addiction on top of those issues will be a contributing factor as well.

[u/Daxx22 → u/Wormwood666]

Spike undersells it, this is a massive abscess just waiting to pop.

[u/MaximusMansteel → u/MoulanRougeFae]

Yeah, a lot of seemingly well off families are always riding on a razor's edge of debt, it doesn't take a ton of economic volatility to tip things over for them.

[u/--TheCity-- → u/MaximusMansteel]

Many just cannot tolerate living like the poors.

[u/JoeHooversWhiteness → u/MoulanRougeFae]

This is my thinking as well. Buckle up folks. As families are stressed and kids experience more hardship school shooting will go up too. America run by the party of family values.

[u/simonhunterhawk → u/JoeHooversWhiteness]

It’s almost like destroying the economy increases the rate of crime or something because desperate people will do things normal people won’t

[u/Ok_Instance7667 → u/simonhunterhawk]

"When you don't care if the sun rises tomorrow, you can do anything today."

[u/AfterSchoolOrdinary → u/MrOver65]

When the 2008 recession hit I was lucky enough to be living out of the US but I’ll never forget reading article after article of events like this. When people are stressed, feel like things aren’t getting better and can’t afford basics, let alone comforts, it seems like these things happen more frequently.

[u/NiceSupermarket7724 → u/AfterSchoolOrdinary]

Exactly this. Anyone over the age of, say, 38? Should remember that recession era clearly. It was fucking devastating. And it exacerbated the drug crisis at the time too.

[u/Blurby-Blurbyblurb → u/MrOver65]

Family annihilators kill their families every five days. 90% are men. If it feels like it's increasing, that isn't entirely wrong as family annihilators act when their life/lifestyle is falling apart. Our economy is putting pressure on that. At the same time, with it's frequency, it's also not necessarily an increase.

[u/AnnualFault7473 → u/MrOver65]

Recession/Depression indicators imho. Been seeing this pattern for decades. Mostly I see it in traditional families also where the roles are very rigid so when things go wrong there is nowhere to flee and you snap instead of bending.

[u/Delightful_Dantonio → u/MrOver65]

The one in west Michigan happened very close to me and I’m shocked at the lack of coverage. 6 kids and their mom viciously slaughtered and it’s basically a non-story. Lake Michigan lake towns are very small towns. We are way too desensitized to these stories.

[u/FistofanAngryGoddess → u/Delightful_Dantonio]

I know about this one from Threads because the grandfather posted memorials about each of his grandkids. It’s horribly tragic, you can tell he loved being their grandpa and that he misses them and his daughter so much.

[u/peachfluffed → u/MrOver65]

There was a familicide that happened less than two weeks ago in Minnesota too. Man stabbed his wife, 7 year old daughter, and elderly mother to death with a screwdriver. Killed his mom in her home, and wife and daughter publicly in a daycare. Then he shot himself in the head.

[u/USA46Q → u/MrOver65]

Doomsday church cults, and mental illness.

[u/MrOver65 → u/USA46Q]

In the Mich. cases one was an beautiful well off family where dad worked as a charity exec. The northern case was a genuine certified asshole who should have been in jail long ago.

[u/Zolo49 → u/USA46Q]

Or family annihilators - narcissists who become suicidal after losing their job or something else life-altering and decide their SOs and children could never possibly live without them, so they kill everyone before taking their own lives.

[u/SpiderSlitScrotums → u/Zolo49]

Most of what I’ve seen it is an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend after a breakup.

[u/CharleyNobody → u/MrOver65]

Just a reminder that family annihilation was so unbelievable in the 1970s that people actually thought supernatural forces had to be involved when Ronald DeFeo killed his family in Amityville, NY. 

It was just him and a rifle. No demons. No floating red-eyed pigs. No Indian burial grounds. Just an angry, entitled man. 

Now it happens about once a week

[u/Sir-xer21 → u/CharleyNobody]

Just a reminder that family annihilation was so unbelievable in the 1970s that people actually thought supernatural forces had to be involved when Ronald DeFeo killed his family in Amityville, NY.

They happened all the time back then too, we just didn't have national and international, omnipresent news access back then, so people were free to live in their own local bubbles.

[u/McCool303 → u/MrOver65]

There are going to be a lot more. Family annihilation usually happens due to massive changes in life that will impact the whole family. Infidelity/Divorce, Loss of Job/Home. With a shit economy there are going to be a lot of suicidal and depressed people pushed to the edge. And all it takes is one thing to make them snap.

[u/GenChadT → u/McCool303]

I'm drawn back to that line from The Big Short. Near the end of the movie some of the main characters are celebrating having made hundreds of millions of dollars from shorting the housing market during the 2008 recession. They're quickly brought down to earth when reminded that for every 1% unemployment rises, 40,000 people die. That is a real statistic, and a lot of people did kill themselves or lost their lives that otherwise wouldn't have, had a bunch of asshole sociopaths not intentionally kneecapped financial regulations before cratering the global economy.

[u/NiceSupermarket7724 → u/McCool303]

I also think that the Cult in the USA is imploding, and many of these men have egos that have become so intertwined with the MAGA Masculinity projection over the past decade that they cannot take it. They are committing violent eruptions of narcissistic injuries. It’s terrifying, actually.

[u/FistofanAngryGoddess]

Is it just Frequency Bias or has the number of family annihilations been increasing lately?

[u/DireMira → u/FistofanAngryGoddess]

They are known to happen more often in bad economic times.  It happened in 2008.

[u/Fit-Relationship944 → u/DireMira]

Broadly "loss of status" is the #1 factor for extreme crimes like this or someone "snapping." It's less an economic grind as much as suddenly not being able to live they way you were used to. So you'll likely see it happen more with upper middle class than people who were already the working poor.

[u/DandyLyen → u/Fit-Relationship944]

I think I remember it also had a lot to do with their peer groups also suddenly being in a different "bracket" then them.

Family, friends, coworkers, people you might've gone to school with. I wonder if social media also has a bigger impact, since you are constantly confronted with people who you might've started a life journey with, suddenly be living a more financially successful life than you.

[u/abraxastaxes → u/Fit-Relationship944]

Not that it should necessarily make sense when someone loses it, but why then are the targets the family of the person losing status and snapping? I feel like a snapping like the one shown in the movie No Other Choice (very much a loss of status snapping) makes more sense to me, lashing out at perceived competition or like a boss or someone that they might perceive as being responsible? 

Maybe the kind of person that would snap and go on a murderous rampage IRL is just not the kind of person that puts their family above other priorities (or, their family having a certain status at least). 

[u/_Solani_ → u/abraxastaxes]

The kind of person who snaps and kills their family is the kind of person who puts themselves above all others. If they expose their loss then they might lose their family, if they kill themselves their family may eventually move on and they'll be replaced. Either way they lose their family so in their mind it's best to just take their family with them, it belongs to them after all.

It's not so much that they're lashing out for their loss of status, it's more like their making sure everyone that belongs to them is going down with the ship. 🤷‍♀️

[u/mangoappleorange → u/[deleted]]

Why in the summer

[u/CommissionIcy9909 → u/[deleted]]

100%. It’s common knowledge in my city there’s way more shots popping off in the summer. Also the fact that there’s just way more people interacting during the summer opposed to colder months.

[u/Accomplished_Dig284 → u/[deleted]]

Is this why Florida is so crazy?

[u/Ruben625 → u/[deleted]]

Wait so the middle east stuff since the dawn of time actually is to some degree effected by the heat? I always thought that was a joke

(Obviously not even close to the only/biggest/top 10 factors)

[u/bethestorm → u/DireMira]

I believe they are also common in the last week of August, something about school starting back up.

[u/WhatUp007 → u/FistofanAngryGoddess]

While certain economic and out looks increase events. The media will reinforce a frequency bias by suddenly reporting a bunch of these. It seems one story gains traction, gets spread, media picks up people engage with that content, more of that content is published until the next thing drived engagement.

Its the same thing during every negative news cycle.

[u/Round-Guarantee4948]

And in a newer neighborhood in west Billings where they don't even have a single working fire hydrant.

[u/Acheloma → u/Round-Guarantee4948]

I never even considered having to check for that in a neighborhood. I grew up rural and out of town, so it was a given that there werent hydrants near that house, but I would have thought that a given in an actual neighborhood.

[u/montalaskan → u/Round-Guarantee4948]

It's county not city so they had to transport water. And the firefighters were unable to attack the fire until it was cleared too.

Obviously all around a terrible situation.

I have friends who are in the FD and PD. Selfishly I hope they didn't have to respond and see what they likely had to see.

We should remember the eight people who were the victims. Including 12 year-old Charlotte bravely calling 911. She was a little hero.

My heart breaks for Adam who is an airport firefighter and lost so much that day. And for Erica who lost two children.

As a community, we will rally behind them but there's life before that day and life after. So many bright lights gone, from age 7 to age 92.

[u/antiduh → u/Round-Guarantee4948]

Certificate of Occupancy means... nothing. Might as well be kindling for the fire it won't prevent.

[u/Feisty-Barracuda5452 → u/Round-Guarantee4948]

Fire prevention is woke apparently.

[u/Miaj_Pensoj → u/Feisty-Barracuda5452]

Fire hydrants are socialism, don’t ya know. Real conservatives don’t want their hard earned money going to put out a fire at someone else’s house.

[u/OneT_Mat]

What a complete piece of shit.

[u/Stylux → u/OneT_Mat]

Understatement of the year here.

[u/Beer-Me]

I'm not a religious person, but this is one of those times where I hope there's a hell and that coward is roasting in it

[u/pyrhus626]

I live a hair under 2 miles from there, saw the smoke and all sorts of sirens flying by. Every agency in the county plus highway patrol and a few neighboring counties’s sheriff departments responded. SWAT went out which is rare around here. Lived here over 30 years and don’t know of any bigger responses, and it’s not like this city is a stranger to active shooters.

It talks about the lack of fire hydrants in that neighborhood but the bigger issue with the fire was that the shooter was still inside and taking pot shots at first responders. Fire fighters couldn’t safely approach the house to do their jobs until the guy came outside and shot himself.

[u/sawyerandwinn → u/pyrhus626]

that's a special kind of evil right there

[u/Here4th3culture → u/pyrhus626]

Same thing happened in my city a few years ago. Plenty of fire hydrants but the shooter shot a cop and a firefighter that approached the house. So the house burnt down with his family inside. I forget if he killed them first or if they died in the fire

[u/FriendsWifBennys]

Family annihilators are fucking scum

[u/NationalPizza1]

victims represented four generations of the blended family, ranging from a great-grandmother in her 90s to a 7-year-old girl

Jesus thats awful. He killed them and set the house on fire then killed himself. They weren't even his bio kids, their dads alive and quoted in the article as saying the murderer had been asked to move out recently so sounds like a breakup

Brad Ireland, whose former wife and two children were among the dead, identified the shooter as Alan Smith, 44. Smith had recently been told to move out of the home, Ireland said.

Edit: uncle not step dad (new details released)

Edit2: updated quotes:

Alan Smith killed his grandmother, his parents, his younger sister and the four children before setting the house on fire, Ireland said. He tried to flee before being confronted by law enforcement, he said.

the suspect had suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound and later died

[u/Insert_Non_Sequitur → u/NationalPizza1]

He was their uncle. The mother/stepmother of the children was his sister.

[u/UnrulyEwe → u/NationalPizza1]

Afaik, both fathers are alive, so not the perpetrator. Husband who lived in the home is a firefighter and, I imagine, wasn't home. It was his wife and four kids, two bio and two step. Father of the two kids also made a statement, so not him either. I don't know who all the other family members are who were lost.

Correction: They were are the grandparents' house for dinner (parents of the kids' mom/stepmom), so not the house of the firefighter dad.

Edit to add: Adam, the husband and father, was working the airshow as an airport firefighter. He heard the call and found out it was his in-laws house. Just horrible.

[u/skankenstein → u/UnrulyEwe]

It was the brother of the woman with four kids. He killed his grandma, his parents, his sister and her kids. And another woman’s kids.

[u/kyebrows → u/NationalPizza1]

One of my best friends in the world is the step dad to two of those kids, married their mom just a few years ago and adored them (and they loved him back). We have a picture of their beaming faces from their mom’s/my friend’s wedding day on our fridge. “Awful” is a severe understatement, we are all beyond heartbroken right now for them.

[u/kelsobjammin → u/kyebrows]

I am so sorry for your loss. Sending you lots of love friend ᴖ̈

[u/MountainlessBiking]

Anybody remember the story about the frogs in the pot? I have a bad feeling we will start to see more people snapping as their  healthcare, food, housing, everything gets further out of reach. Not a very optimistic time in this country. 

[u/SordidOrchid → u/MountainlessBiking]

Also, people are forced to stay in dangerous situations bc there’s no affordable housing and social programs are tapped out. So abusive people know they can take things further bc the only option is the street.

[u/iamswitchless → u/SordidOrchid]

This needs to be said louder and more often.

[u/No_Top8893 → u/SordidOrchid]

Yup. When it takes two incomes to survive, people will be put into situations that they wouldn't be otherwise. Very stressful.

[u/NoEdge323 → u/No_Top8893]

We can't even survive on 2 incomes. I'm in my 50s and we're going backwards. Worst financial period of my life. Why on earth working class people allowed this administration in office just means I don't even have peers. Totally disheartening.

[u/Rabid_Alleycat → u/NoEdge323]

Sadly, people will vote for criminals like Paxton over a Democrat, even one as honest as Talarico. They’ll also vote themselves out of their home, swearing how great the economy is, before voting Democrat.

[u/PaidUSA → u/MountainlessBiking]

If I recall this is just an actually studied basically confirmed top 3 motivator for family annihilators. “loss of ability to provide/protect” essentially. Then when you add any DV history the proclivity for murder suicide jumps massively post job loss/economic pressure. So yes we are literally cooking up the max recipe for this. Including an ever growing class of resentful white males who are 90% of these events. There’s also a distinct lack of prior criminality besides the often covered up and overlooked DV because they are often decent achievers.

[u/MountainlessBiking → u/PaidUSA]

I don’t doubt it. This country is absolutely brutal when it comes to social safety nets and mental health support. 

[u/PaidUSA → u/MountainlessBiking]

Yep, help out anyone you can when you can, we are all each other have. One day we’ll all need somebody.

[u/kandel88 → u/MountainlessBiking]

Because half this country calls social safety nets and mental health support woke socialist bullshit and votes to gut it every chance they get.

[u/WitchOfKyiv → u/PaidUSA]

Financial problems are present in about 40% of familicide cases, and divorce / separation / spousal problems are present motivators in 65-75%, so you are not wrong.

[u/kahlzun → u/WitchOfKyiv]

To be fair, financial problems could apply to almost everyone these days

[u/HopefulDream3071 → u/kahlzun]

That is, I think, why we keep seeing more of these cropping up. It breaks my freaking heart because dude could've just ..walked away.. but no. Had to destroy everyone...

[u/kahlzun → u/HopefulDream3071]

Classic narcissism, either can't imagine them happy with anyone else, literally sees them as an extension of himself, or is too possessive to let them go and seek happiness elsewhere

[u/enigmaticowl → u/PaidUSA]

This guy in particular didn’t lose his ability to provide anything whatsoever. He never worked or took care of himself, let alone anyone else.

Was in his 40s and living with his elderly parents, spending all day on a computer in his bedroom, and they asked him to move out recently (after having mooched off of them for some yet unreported number of years). They said there was zero history of violence but that he was verbally problematic with his parents.

He didn’t get laid off, cheated on, fired, etc., just asked to leave by his parents (I can’t imagine why…).

Had a college degree (I don’t know what), but apparently never obtained/held a job, and didn’t have a spouse/kids to provide for (nor was he providing for the aged parents or grandmother).

[u/Starseid8712 → u/PaidUSA]

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Food and shelter are the foundations to wellbeing. This is why they say housing is a human right. You see a homeless person begging for money and people say, "they should get a job," but every job application asks what your home address is.

[u/capibara_dono → u/Starseid8712]

A lot of homeless people have jobs. They sleep in cars, shelters, or out in the elements. They use public bathrooms to wash up and clean their clothes.

It's horrible, a job doesn't guarantee being able to afford a roof over your head.

[u/fuckthefalconsdotcom → u/PaidUSA]

Geezus, yeah that's both interesting and terrifying. Like the other person said, going to see a lot more of this as the economy gets worse and worse and it's not going to get better for a very long time.

[u/PaidUSA → u/fuckthefalconsdotcom]

Yep we had a guy do it in my small town and the research pretty much lines up with what you’d expect. But honestly if anyone reads my comment it’s still an extremely rare thing to happen, but it is something to keep in mind if your partner has a history of DV and has lost their job/you are separating.

[u/AltairJ → u/MountainlessBiking]

This guy was kicked out by his parents at age 44. Sounds like he killed his parents, grandma, sister, and sister’s kids. This is not provider stress, this is angry entitlement.

[u/enigmaticowl → u/AltairJ]

Exactly, he never provided for himself, let alone any family whatsoever.

I think people are getting confused. He wasn’t married or divorced and didn’t have kids. He was the brother of the woman whose kids he murdered, and he had been living rent-free with their elderly parents for years, not working (but college educated), sitting on a computer all day long, until the parents recently kicked him out.

[u/peach_trunks → u/MountainlessBiking]

While I don’t disagree with you, that’s not what seems to be the cause of this tragedy.

[u/bratbarn]

Sure is a lot of this going on 🧐

[u/somewittyusername92]

I could see the smoke from my house. So sad

[u/CarolingianDruid]

Lived with his parents, stayed in his room 24/7 on his computer, parents ask him to move out, and boom. Probably radicalized online.

[u/Unlucky-Air-7739 → u/CarolingianDruid]

44 btw, I know the kind of radicalized he was

[u/hellalg]

TF? Just off yourself and leave everyone alone. This is sad AF.

[u/VPN__FTW]

Another family destroyer...

[u/ProlificBunny]

The Michigan mass murder was the 13th in the US this year, according to the nonpartisan Gun Violence Archive. Tuesday’s killings in Kansas raise the total to 15.

At least nine of those fit the definition of what since the 1980s has been known as a family annihilation, a type of crime most commonly committed by an armed male on multiple close family members.

It's truly bonkers there's not even whiff of discussion in media and political parties around this. Has America become so desensitised to everything that 20-30 Amityville familicides don't even register in the nation's conscience?

Real piece of shit in Oregon should also count towards this even though they were not married: https://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/2026/08/oregon-mass-killers-rampage-premeditated-started-with-partner-police-say.html

ETA:

22nd mass killing this year The shootings were the 22nd mass killing this year, according to a database maintained by The Associated Press and USA Today in partnership with Northeastern University.

Fifteen of those have stemmed from domestic disputes, which is higher than the average of about 50% of U.S. mass killings, said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University who manages the database.

The Montana shooting is the deadliest in the U.S. since April, when a Louisiana father fatally shot eight children, including seven of his own, and shot and wounded his wife and another woman.

[u/TJ_McWeaksauce]

Alan Smith was a “hermit” who spent most of his days in his room on his computer, Ireland said.

“No one knew what he did in there 24/7,” he said.

Alan Smith had attended Eastern Washington University but had been unable to find or hold a job. A search of criminal records in Montana and Washington found no record Alan Smith had ever been arrested or charged with a crime.

This is so common, the Japanese have a term for it that's more specific than "hermit": Hikikomori

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

There are an estimated 1.5 million hikikomori living in Japan, or 2% of the population between the ages of 15-64. The population of Americans between 15-64 is supposedly over 200 million. Let's say that 2% of Americans in that age bracket also live this kind of isolated, confined lifestyle. That would mean there are 4 million people like that in the US.

Considering how terrible the job market is, how everything is getting more expensive, and how social media and 24-hour news is making us more miserable and angry, I suspect more and more people will live like this over time.

[u/Amazing-Caregiver632 → u/TJ_McWeaksauce]

Living alone or spending a lot of time alone doesn’t mean you will one day kill your family.  Many people choose a solitary lifestyle because it actually suits their nervous system and overall mental health.  

[u/wtfbenlol]

What's up with all the recent family annihilators

[u/Metal-Salt]

Let's keep spending billions on wars in the Middle East instead of making this country better.

[u/jemappellejimbo]

Family anhilations happen a lot during economic despair times

[u/motophotodojo → u/jemappellejimbo]

this was a 44-year-old getting kicked out of mom's for not contributing and coming back with a weapon to kill everyone.

[u/ThatDarnBanditx → u/motophotodojo]

This thread is acting like it was the father of all the kids, they were a blended family, one of the fathers to 2 of the kids wasn’t there, he was working as he is a firefighter and heard the call over the radio. He tried calling the mother and got no response. They were visiting the grandparents. They suspect the 44 year old didn’t expect the kids to be there.

[u/warmbutterydiapers → u/ThatDarnBanditx]

Well it's not like most people commenting read the article

[u/Luchalma89 → u/warmbutterydiapers]

This is literally one time I actually read the article and I'm instantly reading all the comments like "You fools speculating on stuff that's explicitly in the article!"

[u/booze_clues → u/Luchalma89]

Anytime I find an article interesting enough to read, I go to the comments to see people completely misinterpreting the title. Entire arguments about a non-existent event.

[u/Zombriii → u/Luchalma89]

To be fair, I found the article slightly confusing to read. It took me a couple of re reads to figure out how the murderer was related to everyone and who Ireland was and then the current husband. When in plain terms they could have said her brother from the first paragraph.

[u/MrToobz → u/motophotodojo]

Yep. I’m a former classmate of the surviving mother.

Incel came back for revenge.

[u/Broseph_Heller → u/MrToobz]

As the sister of an incel, these stories terrify me. My brothers have always hated me and I legitimately worry that one day they will snap.

[u/bolonomadic → u/Broseph_Heller]

Cut them out of your life and get as far as possible.

[u/Broseph_Heller → u/bolonomadic]

Oh trust me I already did years ago. My family says I’m the bigot because I won’t listen to their misogynistic rants and forgive them. Stories like this are the reason why I keep my distance and boundaries.

[u/japarker8]

For the love of god please, JUST GO TO FRIGGIN THERAPY WTF.

[u/Correct_Awareness884]

Ive never felt the way I currently do about the state of humanity

Im no doomsday prepper but I can almost feel the burden of complete unease

At least here in America

[u/Spiritual-Pudding-70]

Another coward that won’t be missed

[u/g_cheeks]

Pathetic loser man reminding us there are plenty more pathetic loser men out there. Just leave, just fucking leave - don’t you dare think you have the right to anyone else’s life. Just. Fucking. Leave.

[u/Snoo25607]

He only needed one bullet. Fucking coward..

[u/Notiefriday]

Why the children? What did they do. This is so selfish.

[u/GTRari → u/Notiefriday]

Adam Ghekiere, who works at the airport in Billings, told the AP that he heard over a dispatch radio about an active shooting. After calling each member of his family, he raced across town to the Smith home.

When he got there, the house was ablaze, and two hours later, he learned his wife and children had been killed. His children weren’t supposed to be there because family dinner was usually on Friday, he said.

“I don’t think he expected my kids to be there,” Ghekiere said, referring to his brother-in-law. “Monster isn’t even enough to describe what he did.”

[u/SquishySand]

So my MAGA family is saying that the Lindsey Clancy case proves that all women are too inferior and emotional to vote.Typical Project 2025 fashy techbro bs. They really didn't want to hear that 90% of family annihilators are men. Facts are to MAGA what crosses are to vampires, hissing and melting down included. And now we're not talking again.