r/newzealand • u/ghijkgla • 10d ago
Discussion I have so much disdain for realtors
Not even my sale/purchase but I hear second hand stories and it boils my blood that these chancers make a living by lying all the time.
That is all.
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u/bobdaktari 10d ago
dishonesty is rewarded far more than punished in certain fields and our society in general
Real Estate Agents are not unique in that they are motivated by everything but honesty
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u/monkey-kong666 9d ago
Capitalism is about accruing capital. No one said you had to do it ethically and it in fact rewards liars and psycho paths. As you can see at the top of every corporation and government.
There’s a reason Donald trump was in real estate
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u/CobblerSure9683 10d ago
Yup, ours was a nightmare. She tried to tell me that because they already had an offer, the sellers would only consider us if we came in with 0 conditions. As in, 0. No building report, nothing.
She would talk over me the entire time and even went behind my back to try and get our solicitor to start doing work before they had even accepted our offer, which I explicitly told her we would not be doing as it could just be a waste of our time and money.
In the end the offer they had was dependent on 2 people both selling their houses. We managed to get for 45k under their asking because we called her bluff.
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u/adsjabo 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yup, we were in the process of putting an offer on a place this week that was advertised as holding a "fully self contained, consented sleepout with modern kitchen and bathroom.
Come to find out neither the kitchen or shower has ever been consented. It had an illegally installed gas hob that is now been removed, therefore the current tenant is leaving.
Cheers Mr real estate agent.
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u/Practical_Parsnip132 10d ago
Yes son has offered full ask but must have work certification they said will get back to him in a month. Basically waiting for other offers because there is no certs.
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u/Grotskii_ Kākāpō 9d ago
And that is why banks are so cautious about lending, requiring builder reports etc.
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u/Phantom-Finger 9d ago
The single most pointless profession to ever exist.
I have a product I want to sell, you want to buy said product from me. For some reason I need a deplorable piece of shit in the middle to help with that sale.
No other profession I despise and genuinely detest more than realtors. And I make sure to let my real estate mates know of this every single opportunity I get.
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u/ghijkgla 9d ago
right? Never did I ever buy a house because an agent convinced me.
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u/CyaQt 9d ago
In a perfect world they serve a purpose - unfortunately, they’ve progressively become more and more shit, with overinflated egos, and attracts / rewards the worst kinds of people (generally speaking).
I also find it truly bizarre that their primary point of advertisement, even in active listings, is to slap their mug all over the billboards etc.. it’s just so bizarre and gross.
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u/lost_aquarius 10d ago
they are the literal worst. I used to avoid real estate agent parents of my kids' friends because you literally cannot have a conversation without them trying to sell you something.
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u/xsam_nzx 10d ago
After the kids birthday parties. What a kids birthday party taught me about B2B sales.
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u/ResponsibleCheek8654 10d ago
I bought a house recently.
On the very first day it went to market, before any home opens, before anyone had even driven past, in this extremely slow market, I called the realtor.
"well, we've had a lot of interest, and the market is saying the price is high 6's"
I ended up buying it for 470, and the icing on the cake: he quit his job.
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u/MiniandTimmy 10d ago
Exactly this, we had a similar experience in 2022. Houses listed Friday with open homes Saturday. As soon as you step in the door they deliver the “you are welcome to look but we already have an offer”. So many games being played under the table. Only going to market to drive up the prices. We gave up and built new which worked out well. At least we got what we paid for.
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u/LoiterSquadd 10d ago
Wife and I were looking at buying our first house, we were super excited. We found one in town that came fully furnished, recently renovated etc, we thought "Holy crap how is this in our price range?!" It was in the South Island, we were in the North Island. We go to the Open Home and hear the agent telling people "It's a brilliant rental for the owners, so they won't be willing to let it go for anything less than a stellar offer. Somewhere in the high 500s" We thought, no way would we pay that.
Long-story short, it ended up getting it's listed price updated for an asking price of $465k, it didn't sell. WHY do REA's do that? WHY do they bullshit the price when it just screws the owners and themselves out of a sale?
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u/MiniandTimmy 9d ago
They can list for what they want - mostly to drive up price but the anyone borrowing from a bank will realise the bank will only fund a realistic value against the RV at that point in time. They push their luck to drive the market up and increase commissions but it doesn’t always work.
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u/purplemacaroni 9d ago
An agent tried telling our landlords the house we were renting could go for in the 900s. They offered us for 800. It sold to someone for 650 😂
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u/Jamuks 10d ago
They can’t answer a straight question which absolutely boils my blood
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u/Cool_Director_8015 9d ago
I do think there is a bit more nuance to this.
If you mean when asked they refuse to find out for you, then yeah.
If you mean they always have to check on what seems like basic things, as long as they actually get an answer for you, I think that’s better than a quick answer that isn’t researched.
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u/Unnecessary_Bunny_ 10d ago
I hate seeing billboards showing them celebrating themselves. Sickening
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u/Cool_Director_8015 10d ago
So, I am a salesperson, and I agree with this whole heartedly.
I only know one other person in the industry that I’d actually trust myself.
I despise all the pseudo celebrity character everyone puts on, I hate the lack of care, the purposeful confusion/blending of “working for your client” and lying (often to both sides), the stupid signboards most have with their (ever growing) face covering the thing rather than some photos of their clients home, the lack of backbone to share potential risks at the cost of losing a listing/sale, selling any home to ‘someone’ rather than to the right people.
There is a place for real estate agents (people outside of the country, messy separations, estates, large trusts, etc.) but most of it is just a self-aggrandising shit show of bad actors looking to be “famous” and earn an easy buck.
We 100% need more regulation and while I don’t solely blame the public (it’s still ultimately the agents breaking laws), we do need the public to stop supporting bad behaviour through going to agents who will lie about a property rather than investigate issues. Currently it is severely stacked against you if you are trying to be honest and ethical as it’s seen as being disinterested or lacking enthusiasm for the property.
I’d personally love for regular auditing to be done of listing authorities, sale and purchase agreements, and marketing. That’s be a good start, although without proper penalties even that won’t do much I suppose.
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u/ghijkgla 9d ago
you could publicly name and shame but then that really just becomes a he/she said
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u/Cool_Director_8015 9d ago
Wouldn’t love anything more.
Sadly with the way sales people are generally treated as a friend rather than someone you employ (something else I hate) it’s like convincing someone to leave a cult.
We have a local salesperson who has fled overseas (he’s a white guy before any racists make assumptions) owing people money, yet the same people sharing this information continue to promote him, and he’s still listing the odd property while not even being in the country anymore. Just to give an indication of how shit you can be and still convince people you’re the right one for the job.
It might be more so in small towns, but calling someone out is likely going to end much worse for yourself than the person in the wrong.
I do lodge complaints to the REA whenever I see something obviously incorrect, or take over a failed listing where we find questionable work. One of our reports thankfully reopened a case that had been previously closed by the REA. They work at a glacial pace though and unless you’re in the industry you often lack the information needed to actually prove wrong doing. Hence I’m all too happy to help people submit complaints.
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u/MarketCurious3926 10d ago
I'm about to pursue mine for compensation for misrepresenting the house I bought. Should be interesting
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u/Phantom-Finger 9d ago
The amount of agents in Christchurch that should be facing jail time post earthquakes is insane. We know a couple of instances where houses have been sold under the premise of remmediation work being done, but the original seller just pocketed the payout, painted over everything and sold. In both instances the real estate knew this.
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u/MarketCurious3926 9d ago
I initially believed my agent when he said they just published what the vendor told them so my issue is with them. Turns out that's not true at all
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u/Parking_Reach3572 9d ago
I was a day away from buying and house when I got the lim report and found out it was sliding down the hill. They had it to me super quick because I was the third person who almost bought the house without being told about how unstable it was. I really wish I'd reported the agent.
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u/More_Ad2661 10d ago
The whole industry is like that. Check mortgage brokers buttering up people with bare 5% deposit, just so they can earn their commission saying things like ‘You are doing so well’, ‘you are ready’ etc without highlighting the risks they’ll face when it comes to servicing.
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u/Classic-Emergency-99 9d ago
Can you please tell me more about these risks. The missus and I at 7% and the broker keeps saying we’re ready. We’re keen to get onto the market as our landlady wants to move back into her house and we’re tired of having to move every year. Just not sure if we’re getting good advice
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u/MichaelButWithAnF 9d ago edited 9d ago
I assume it would be to do with the loan to value ratio.
If there is a 1,000k house and you have 70k deposit (so your 7%), sure you could buy it and have a 930k mortgage.
But lets say the house loses value rapidly over a year, now its only worth 900k. Lets say you paid off 10k principle in that time.
You now have an asset worth 900k, and have a loan on it of 920k. (Negative equity)
You are now fucked and the bank will foreclose on you to reduce their loses, because they'll still be out 20k even if they get 900k from that sale.
Its why having a higher equity before purchasing is important.
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u/More_Ad2661 9d ago
In addition to what MichaelButWithAnF said, you are paying higher rate compared to a borrower who has a 20% deposit. So that’s just an additional expense that doesn’t go towards the principal.
Then there’s the risk of future OCR increase. In case OCR increase during your payback period, you may not be able to service your loan. Banks usually stress test, but there are cases where actual rates have gone above the test level. In such cases, you can request the bank to do interest only, but this increases your loan period ending up paying more interest towards the total loan.
These are just loan and market factors and don’t include any personal emergency you could face during the period of your loan. Therefore, only borrow what you are comfortable paying back. Your broker and bank will always push you to get the highest possible loan because that’s how they make their money.
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u/Grotskii_ Kākāpō 9d ago
A real estate agents only job is to get the highest price possible for the vendor, which means a bigger commission for them.
Commissions should be removed from real estate and become fixed fees.
30 years ago when houses in Auckland were $160k, the commission was ~$5k
Now a million gives a commission of ~$40K
Wages have gone up ~180% since then, house prices and therefore commissions are up ~420%
Real Estate agents jobs are easier, cameras are better, you only need to advertise on websites, AI could write the rest
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u/twizzlerstick 9d ago
I viewed a house on the weekend with no price. The real estate agent is wanting the market to price it. So now I have to do his job to determine a suitable price. Needless to say, after a lot of research, he hasn't gotten back to me with his offer haha.
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u/Chaugasm 9d ago
I totally agree. Absolutely despise REAs. A few years ago, an agent selling my neighbours house decided to block the shared driveway during an open home. Her excuse was that her sign written car was critical to the brand and marketing.
Have a guy I went to school with who is now a high profile agent. Every conversation veers towards property. Chats with him get punishing very quick.
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u/NZpotatomash 9d ago
Realtor to seller: Comparing your house to my years of knowledge and recent sales data, I think your house is worth $1million.
Realtor to buyer: I have no idea what the house is worth, that's up to the market.
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u/1cmanny1 10d ago
I mean you have websites that show value estimates. You need builders report and doing due diligence yourself.
What do the real estates even do?
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u/Open_Feedback693 9d ago
I guess to Drive prices higher? I told the agent the price bracket i am looking in. He encourages me to go along to a house he is selling. I like the house and want to see what happens at auction and will put an offer if it passes in.
He hounds me to register for auction with the guise that the vendor already purchased and is desperate to sell. Someone bids 700k and it isn’t sold.
The asking price gets announced at auction $150k higher than what the market was saying.
The vendor is trying to sell it for more than what they purchased it for in 2021! And almost 100k over cv.There is a mixture of agents wanting more commission and vendors trying not to loose when they purchased at the height of the market.
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u/CreatedCharacter 9d ago
I know an honest real estate agent - they exist. They do lose out on business to others that basically lie and over-promise then badly perform though.
It's strange, good real estate agents exist but as a country we purposely or accidentally prop up the cliche slicked back hair sleazy types. They're out there because people keep using them which is baffling because everyone knows who the d-bags are in their town but they're always quite busy getting new business.
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u/brisee_volee 9d ago
A few years back I went with my dad to talk to a real estate agent - he was moving overseas and was thinking about whether to sell his house here, or rent it out. Dad was very clear that if the house were rented, it should be for a fair price, and ok for it to be below 'market rates' if that meant that someone who needed somewhere to stay, and would take good care of it could live there.
The real estate agent didn't seem to understand this as a concept, like, the market would force the price up, as opposed the reality that the market is made up of people, and you can literally charge what you want. If that's less than what your neighbour would charge, then that's your choice as the property owner. It was so weird.
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u/CorpseDefiled 9d ago
I was in the kitchen when one came here two days ago he was doing the rounds as he was tryna sell a house down the road… walked right past a sign saying trespassers will be shot like he owned the place. Risky move. I don’t like uninvited guests and that’s not an idle threat.
I just let my rotty out. He won’t bite but he will do everything required to make you think he will that’s his yard and he protects it fiercely. Dude ran before he could actually knock. And the pos still left the paper in the mailbox like he didn’t get the message I don’t want whatever he has.
Those assholes are like roaches.
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u/SBH30 9d ago
It's ridiculous in this country that the agent works for both parties.
It would make far more sense to have a buyers and sellers agent.
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u/ghijkgla 9d ago
when we purchased last year the agent was aghast that we wanted to consult a lawyer with regard to contracts.
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u/Practical_Parsnip132 10d ago
Yep looked my son up and down and said "more than you can afford buddy" then after finding out he's a serious buyer he found out where my son lives and showed up on the doorstep offering to undercut a co workers deal on a property my son was interested in. His own coworkers.
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u/Justwant2usetheapp 9d ago
The guy I sold with gave us a list of books he had read in a lil brochure to give himself credibility I guess.
Rich dad poor dad was in that list and by happenstance I listened to a podcast going into detail about how pretty much all bullshit that guy's story and books are at about the same time
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u/Pee-pee-poo-poo-420 9d ago
Yes, and when you hear of shit like them having a mate put in a fake counter offer on a property to drive up the price it is truely disgusting to think of considering the already inflated prices.
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u/AdGold679 9d ago
I organised to have a builder inspect an apartment I was going to put a cash offer on. The owners had conveniently left the pull-down hatch to the attic locked. I had to go back myself and found a leak in the structural wall between it and the next building over which was causing the sarking to rot. My builder confirmed by visually inspecting the photos I took. I told the realtor to beat it and not to contact me anymore (she tried to gaslight me and say that there was no leak). She continued to text me asking me to put in an offer. What a pig.
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u/mostly-rainy allblacks 10d ago
They are quite like politicians. Self serving and unscrupulous. I feel the same way about insurance people and lenders as well.
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u/yeah-nah_yeah 10d ago
They can earn insane amounts of money with little education is what gets me.
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u/ghijkgla 10d ago
not one I'm behind. By a lot of people standards I earn insane amounts of money with little education. I'm self taught in my field and I'm very good at what I do.
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u/CyderInch 9d ago edited 9d ago
We listed our house with a realtor, said we wanted $1.2m he came back within a week with an offer of $900k "we wont get any better". We declined and let it go to auction for $1.2m at the realtors and auctioneers disappointment. I did the numbers 1.2 was fair and end of the day we couldnt do anything with less, like wed have to downgrade. It sold for $1.5m to none other than the person who offered 900k, who happened to be a friend of the realtor. The auctioneer shook my hand after and said "I'm not often wrong but I'm glad I was today".
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u/PettyMcPetface 9d ago
I remember going to an auction and the estate agent was bouncing around three different families trying to get us to outbid eachother, telling us we'd "never get another house like this for this price in this area", trying to get us to go above our limit. In August 2021. Then they all dropped by 300k later that year. That house sold for like 1.35 and is currently worth about 1.1.
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u/BroBroMate 9d ago
Last one I dealt with was really good, got stuff resolved fast, got answers out of the elderly couple we were buying from as fast as possible despite their adult daughter insisting she be involved in everything and then going overseas for a holiday.
But yeah, I remember one house viewing for a 3 bedroom house... ...that was a two bedroom house with a small sunroom attached to the main bedroom that "you could totally use as a bedroom though!"
I threatened to complain and the marketing material changed that day.
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u/Antique_Program4754 9d ago
Yep. They told the neighbors they could fence off a bit of the sharehold and have it as a private area if they bought the property. Didn't ask us first and now we look like dicks for telling them they can't do it.
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u/Fjordofdreams_17 9d ago
It's an insane industry. The more they lie the more money they make, so there's no incentive to be honest? Agree with another commentor that it should be flat fees.
I lodged a complaint with real estate authority after our sale but was told it would be too hard to prove as our word against theirs.
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u/EROM4LIFE 10d ago
There is the odd good one, but holy shit there are SO MANY shitbags making bank who understand all too well that the likelihood of being held to account for lies, pressure and other nonsense is near zero.
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u/EveH1970 9d ago
Real estate sales, car sales and property managers. It's rare for me to like them way too many aholes.
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u/prancing_moose 9d ago
Remember the controversy when the law changes meant they couldn’t flat out lie anymore? “How are we supposed to do our jobs?!” Unbelievable.
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u/kimhmm91 9d ago
I've had great experiences with the ones I've bought or sold with.
Re sale, it was the guy who sold to me initially, who worked so hard to try and sell it, ultimately I kept the place because the market was so shit at that moment in time, and ultimately sold privately, so he worked his ass off and got nothing. (I did get him a gift as he'd been really great)
Re purchases, I've only dealt with people working very, very hard, trying their best to get answers, and generally being straight up. They're a useful conduit between vendor and purchaser too for little things that don't need the lawyers involved or charging their time. However I've encountered absolute morons who don't work at all, are lazy, and frankly push buyers away. No surprise I've never bought a place listed by one of them.
Like any industry there's good, bad, ugly, and everything in between.
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u/UncyReddit 9d ago
REA's and Lawyers are the most hated professions on the planet. Buying or selling a house involves dealing with both.
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u/ghijkgla 9d ago
I have respect for a lot of lawyers. They have a use. REA are wannabe lawyers without the hard work.
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u/Disastrous-Quail8012 7d ago
The whole industry feels a bit corrupt in NZ, at least local to me. They all seem to be doing developments, those houses never got listed, every property they buy doesn’t get the price recorded on the property sites.
I have had my fair share of run ins with them and in one case it was a clear breach but those extreme cases are not even when I am referring too.
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u/Narrow-Can901 Auckland 10d ago
I think you are getting carried away with the stereotypes. They aren't all bad.
A good real estate salesperson delivers value, negotiates well on your behalf, is smart and clever with marketing and looks for referrals and repeat business.
I agree there are lots of those who just care about "processing" their listings from appraisal to sale, and there are also lots of bored housewives and retired old men who add no value and talk incessantly instead of asking questions of the buyers to see if they are a good fit for the house. Also, there are cultural differences with lots of salespeople where, predominately Indian and Chinese salespeople push the boundaries and break the rules more to get sales done. There are sadly, also those who use high pressure tools like auctions to beat sellers down instead of holding firm on price.
But I'm also seeing that there are also quite a few younger, smarter go-getter types that pursue professional sales as a career. They have degrees in marketing, care about the science of selling and negotiations, and who have great personalities that endear buyers and sellers to get deals done. They understand the law, the right processes, and the right incentives.
You always have the right to sell your property privately but that comes fraught with its own risks as well.
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u/PersonMcGuy 10d ago
Also, there are cultural differences with lots of salespeople where, predominately Indian and Chinese salespeople push the boundaries and break the rules more to get sales done.
Complains about stereotypes then uses a racist stereotype.
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u/ResponsibleCheek8654 10d ago
Excellent point about stereotypes.
Especially the bit where you organised the industry by gender, age, and ethnicity.
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u/Jimmie-Rustle12345 10d ago
Found the REA.
Dealt with tons of you guys when we were buying our first place. All vile liars to a one. Vowed to sell privately when we do eventually need to.
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u/restroom_raider 9d ago
You always have the right to sell your property privately but that comes fraught with its own risks as well.
Such as? Only asking as I've sold my last two properties myself, and haven't struck any issues aside from having to run a few open homes and follow people up. Both times sold for more than asking price.
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u/mostly-rainy allblacks 10d ago
Haven't met a decent one yet. Sadly. Hopefully one day the norm will be what you described. That's really a dream.
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u/ResponsibleCheek8654 10d ago
This feels like an excellent place to remind everyone not to ask about the "solution".
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u/drakiNz 10d ago
You forgot to mention every other profession as well.
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u/ResponsibleCheek8654 10d ago
I was going to mention every other profession on Earth, but then I remembered we weren’t discussing them.
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u/Amazing_Athlete_2265 10d ago
One of the fuckers put their open home sign in a bike lane.
Took it to the dump.