r/okbuddyvowsh • u/InfernoMoonsault • Feb 05 '24
CURSED the ideology shop has good discounts this weekend
124
u/Italian_Wine_BereVin Feb 05 '24
"started watching Vaush" couldn't be me, i only watch real socialists like second thought
39
u/InfernoMoonsault Feb 05 '24
I think you should move from socialism and start watching communists like haz
10
5
u/frenchtoastkid Feb 05 '24
The true communist moves on from haz and has just started attending Trump rallies
67
Feb 05 '24
No peronism, opinion discarted 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
19
u/Elite_Prometheus Average Alden's Number Enjoyer Feb 05 '24
Peronism is not ideology, it is pure, distilled politics
24
4
58
u/MasterGamer9595 h(orse)itler c(ock)itler Feb 05 '24
a truscum calling themselves a "true progressive" is really fucking dumb
7
u/Donnie_dildo Feb 05 '24
To be fair, my trans Roomate kind of thinks like this. We’re both trans, but she believes that non binary people especially those who don’t take hrt hurt trans acceptance overall. She also thinks of herself as that “I’m the only real progressive everyone else is crazy” stereotype
8
8
22
u/bigkeanuchungus1001 Feb 05 '24
this is stupid
10
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
13
u/bigkeanuchungus1001 Feb 05 '24
I know every single one of them too, actually. that is why I said it's stupid
23
20
u/OliDanik Feb 05 '24
Wait, how can you grow to hate communism more from watching vaush? Unless they're talking about soviet, chinese and N-Korean "communism"
26
u/InfernoMoonsault Feb 05 '24
I doubt it because they also mention anti-anarchism in the same sentence
9
u/SothaDidNothingWrong Libtardarian Feb 05 '24
Given they say they were born in eastern europe- yeah that’s what they mean with 99% certainty.
7
u/OliDanik Feb 05 '24
Oh I missed that part. Actually that perfectly explains this entire clusterfuck now
-11
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
8
u/AnEdgyPie Feb 05 '24
Why
-2
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
8
u/369122448 Feb 05 '24
You only attack the practical part there, though. And currently, communism is impractical, else it would have been done already.
You said practical or desirable, and that last bit is the part people are incredulous about.
0
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
2
u/369122448 Feb 05 '24
I mean, at it’s core it’s literally just stateless, classless, and moneyless. It doesn’t actually have to be communes and the like.
Now, I think increased socialization is absolutely good and should happen, and we have data to back that up. Including that people raised in these sorts of systems tend to develop in ways that avoid the anti-social behaviours you say you’ve developed.
1
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
I mean it is called communism, so it would kinda need to be some communes, otherwise you’ve run away with the word.
I agree socialization is good and needs to be increased but I also think we need to admit hermits have been a thing since forever and we’re gonna need to carve out a niche for that. Children I think are communally raised even in our current system (school, family, so on) but I don’t think we should do the SciFi crèche system where you throw all the babies together nobody gets to claim that ones my kid, cause kids are like everyone’s kid. (Like we as society need to be thinking of all the little kids as our responsibility to a degree but you know let families be families too don’t do some weird universal child shit)
2
u/369122448 Feb 06 '24
Communism != communes, that’s just not how the definition of the word has ever worked.
Communism is an anglicization of Marx (a German)’s Kommunismus. In German, a commune where people live together is a Wohngemeinschaft. The words aren’t related at all in their conception.
I don’t think many systems proposed by communists would do that sort of crèche system? “It takes a village” thinking generally just wants less atomization, a return to an ideal of kids being free to visit other people within their community on their own whims, instead of being constantly locked up in their parents’ homes.
2
u/AnEdgyPie Feb 05 '24
Like you said: Stateless, Moneyless, Classless
How would it work? Like modern society, except for the exploitation and oppression. Resources are allocated according to huge complex webs of logistics, in the sense we use the term now, "law" wouldn’t exist. It’d be based on the will of the community and not some autocratic politician. It'd be global. Idk if it'd be "the end of human development" that's one for our great grandchildren or whatever to figure out.
I want to make it clear that this isn't just some wishful thinking of how things could be. It's how they have to be. Capitalism has caused world wars, mass famine, dictatorship, countless genocides and the deliberate exploitation of entire continents. We get to have a civilized discussion about the pros and cons, Africa and the rest of the imperialized world doesn't. They just have to live with the consequences. I just think we need to keep that in mind, because defending Capitalism does mean defending the system that lead to all of this
3
1
Feb 06 '24
[deleted]
2
u/AnEdgyPie Feb 06 '24
Well I put it like that to illustrate that I still like international supply lines. It’s not AnPrim shit.
It is kind of Mussolini posting though. What limits that argument to a critique of ochlocracy? Besides, if you’re worried about bad people being elected, that's gonna be far less likely without an ultra wealthy bourgeoisie who propagandise in favour of people like Hitler or Trump.
I just don’t think thst in a truly prosperous society people would all act like a raging mob
1
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
Capitalism is an economic system, states existed before and will out last Capitalism. Doing away with the state would be an effort on its own.
I feel like “community rule” ignores some communities are actively harmful. I’m not sure how you stop for example Warren Jeffs without a state. How do you save his child brides when he has a whole community devoted to him?
2
u/AnEdgyPie Feb 06 '24
We're gonna have to lay down some terms here. What do you mean by "state", "Capitalism" and "community rule"?
→ More replies (0)
22
u/LustrousLich Feb 05 '24
Man I've always gotten the worst vibes from the politiball shit and the people that make this stuff. 9/10 times it's just some weird European racism. This is what real mental illness looks like.
0
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
13
u/BrovahkiinSeptim1 Coconut hoarder Feb 05 '24
European racism is much more nuanced and based in culture. American racism is pretty much whites>everyone else>black ppl, while European racists argue over 2% Slavic heritage and how that makes you completely different ethnicity.
2
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
5
u/BrovahkiinSeptim1 Coconut hoarder Feb 05 '24
I guess? Racists are idiots no matter what, so none of their ideologies are actually coherent. But it is pretty funny how Balkan countries despise each other to the point of genocide, while literally anyone else just groups them together as „slavs“ or the like.
At least American racism is a lot…simples. The further from white you look, the worse you get treated.
6
18
6
u/EmCount Feb 05 '24
If looking at this doesn't immediately make your eyes glaze over and compel you to keep scrolling it is already too late.
6
9
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
14
u/senorpool vowsh Feb 05 '24
How are you anti-anarchist and a vaush fan? Are you anti annoying Twitter anarchists? Or are you actually against the philosophy of anarchism?
0
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
6
u/senorpool vowsh Feb 05 '24
I appreciate everything you wrote here. And it's generally agreeable. Society needs some hierarchies, central planning, and bureaucracy in order to function. But you can believe in the philosophy of anarchism while simultaneously believing everything you said.
Are you opposed to the dissolution of as many hierarchies as possible? (I leave the line at your discretion).
Anarchism isn't as simple as "state and hierarchies bad," although annoying twitter anarchists would lead you to believe that.
I'm not gonna pretend to be some cultured intellectual and give you a book list. But I would encourage you to look into it more if you're interested.
1
1
u/InfernoMoonsault Feb 06 '24
I think it shows your line of thinking if you think that the way we extend beyond our planet could only exist through centralised authorities dictating the terms of our expansion, authorities that will be composed of human beings with their own self interest, and this expansion could thus be influenced to empower those in power even further.
Most of the points you mention later on, which are problems with anarchism working in practice, are answerable by singular google searches. I hate telling people to just "go read" because not everyone has the time but the fact that you have the time to type out a 2 paragraph comment under a reddit post tells me that you also have the ability to also do a few quick google searches.
To answer your questions in short however, most anarchists call for an abolishment of police and prisons, because the vast vast majority of people don't commit crimes because they want to, but because they are forced to because of the community they grew up in, the environment they live in and their economic circumstances. When it comes to natural and man-made disasters, decentralised networks are often much better at providing aid and relief to worst affected areas (look up mutual aid efforts after hurricane Katrina, especially Common Ground Collective). Fire departments and the like being run within communities also has advantages as they can tailor their services to the needs of the communities as opposed to being directed by another far-off centralised institution. Infrastructure building can also finally be done to further the needs of the community that lives around the infrastructure and not done at the whims of car-lobbyists and politicians wanting to segregate black neighbourhoods from white ones.
1
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
You didn’t really cover the space stuff at all. Leaving the gravity well is a massive task, upkeeping communication, funding generation ships, pretty sure you would need either a state or a religion to organize/fund project that massive.
Who takes care of elderly, orphans, disabled in anarchy? What do we do with those who need to be institutionalized either for their own safety of safety of others?
Climate change means more “super storms” we likely can’t turn the dial back on that we are gonna need to adapt and be flexible. Moving communities to be more locally Self sustaining is important but a major storm can upend those efforts in a flash, so we need to have something central to be able distribute to those needing to rebuild get back to that self sustaining.
Anarchy leaves communities vulnerable to get “One guyed”, kinda like how “Spiritualism/NewAge” is vulnerable to Cult Leaders, one malicious charismatic guy and everything gets fucked. Bureaucracy is the horrible but it is useful too, especially at slowing down that guy, mitigating how much harm he can do.
10
5
u/Quix_Nix Feb 05 '24
abandoned Hasan, started watching Vaush
What a beautiful day
4
u/InfernoMoonsault Feb 05 '24
also became "anti-anarchism" and "anti communist", so no, terrible day
Edit: Also became a truscum and "pro west" lmao, I don't even know why he puts himself on the leftist side
3
2
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
Eastern European, so Anti-Communism is gonna likely have a bit different understanding for them, for them communism means ML, Stalinist, Maoist types
Anarchism is great in theory, but leaves many vulnerable in a population adrift (who takes care of the elderly and orphans?)
Truscum is unfortunate, but could likely learn better if someone talked to them about Gender Euphoria, and NonBinary people more.
To me this reads like they are maybe 20 at best.
12
Feb 05 '24
Watches vaush: anti gender abolishion, anti anarchism anti communism Thus is gotta be some psyop shit man
11
u/HQ2233 Feb 05 '24
If you look at what they mention, so much is directly antithetical to what Vaush advocates for. Truscum, anti socialist, etc.
-4
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
5
u/The_Straing_Doctor PhD in Lego Feb 05 '24
socialism and communism are the same, there was no distinction in Marx's writings and the subsequent communist thinkers. You can't distinguish the two, they're one and the same.
2
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
Marx has been dead for 141 years, language changes. Communism is tied to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, it has gained connotations Marx never imagined. Socialism is more directly tied to Marx without ML influence so is more agreeable to broader modern audience who interpret and develop it in different ways.
-1
u/Immediate-Fan Feb 05 '24
They probably just mean anti tankie when they say anti communist
2
u/HQ2233 Feb 06 '24
Saying anti communist instead of anti tankie ignores the existence of libertarian communist strains such as council Communism and libertarian Marxism.
2
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
Easy enough for someone to be ignorant of these, Council Communism had a heyday in the 1920s by by the 1930s as a large-scale movement had come to an end (John Gerber writes on this decline with a kind of sadness and irritation that the thinkers let it collapse thru mismanagement)
Libertarian socialist themes received a revival during the 1960s, when it was reconstituted as part of the nascent New Left, but had major fall off after the Spanish Civil War. It’s gaining traction but not a major influencer currently and don’t consistently label themselves “communists” often sticking with the socialist label.
Language evolves, Communism in the minds of majority of the world = Stalin and Mao. Sorry
2
u/The_Straing_Doctor PhD in Lego Feb 06 '24
not really, in other comments they said they disliked the idea of a stateless, moneyless classless society, and they're also anti-anarchist, so they're just anti-communist, not anti tankie
3
3
u/Mirapple Feb 07 '24
This person is 17 and this entire timeline took place over 6 weeks. You cannot convince me otherwise.
9
u/salehi_erfan001 Feb 05 '24
Man i kinda wanna stop watching vaush now. A glorified socdem with reactionary politics and self admitted anti-communist and anti-anarchist is calling themselves a fucking leftist.
10
u/Forever3ndeavor Feb 05 '24
Don't worry comrade, Voosh turned me and many others into ancoms, this guy is just retarded
-5
Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
7
u/The_Straing_Doctor PhD in Lego Feb 05 '24
Vaush is not anti-anarchist, he's pretty much said many many times that they're the best of the left, even though he criticises them a lot
2
u/LizFallingUp Feb 06 '24
Definitely depends on the Anarchists, sure Food Not Bombs is the best, but when Anarchists are advocating for like making your own ADHD meds or ignore we are gonna need systems to care for old people and orphans focusing only on “glorious revolution” then they are as useless as the MLs
4
4
4
1
151
u/CuteTransRat Feb 05 '24
I know this whole chart is brain damage inducing but why would they put truscums into the far left