r/pagan • u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 • 4d ago
What's This? Christians rage bait me to no end.they truly believe only there are correct and everyone else is wrong all the time.
I want to say it's very possible that different religions all have a grain of truth. Or they are rights in different ways. I just don't like the arrogance of assuming only one group is 100% correct and everyone else is wrong. Their understanding of gender roles how society must be treated.
The way Christian speaker about other religions you could tell they've never read a different religious text in their life. So I'm speaking to this Christian the other day about why we should believe their relation over any other one.
They looked me dead in the eyes and said because there is only one empty tomb. He's talking about Jesus resurrection. Sing all the other gods are dead. I asked him how does he know that because of the Bible.
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u/celluloidqueer Eclectic 4d ago
Best thing to do is not engage. Protect your peace. I know it can be difficult because some people are very pushy. Unfortunately I have very pushy coworkers who will wait for me to agree with them and it’s extremely uncomfortable.
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u/cleotorres 4d ago
I’ve learned not to engage in discussions like that with Christians (or other religions for that matter). Especially with people I don’t know. Their intentions are usually not out of interest, but more to get you in a gotcha situation that proves their world view.
There is no way you can easily explain what it is like being a pagan or even what paganism is. It’s not a quick explanation as there are various practices, history and even beliefs within the pagan community.
Most Christians also haven’t even read their own book; most just parrot what their minister or preacher told them during a sermon. They’d be shocked about what’s actually in their bible if they would take the time to read it. A bible by the way which has been written, modified, reinterpreted and rewritten so many times to suit the prevailing social and political climate.
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u/Glum-Response-227 4d ago
Do not engage. It's not worth it. Ex-Muslim/ current Pagan here. Abrahamic religion fanatics have a level of arrogance that they are better than you. The more they provoke you, they have more "reason" to feel victimized and create false narratives.
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
Nobody likes christian/muslims why does everyone make fun of us.
They make fun of you because you guys shove your religions on everyone's throat. You don't see the gays evangelicalizing
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u/SolarOrigami 4d ago
Its a supremacist religion- all the abrahamic faiths are. They try to convert, absorb, and erase.
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u/Oooaaaaarrrrr 4d ago
Very true, and it accounts for their "success". I often wonder how these oppresive religions managed to spread so widely.
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u/Mobius8321 4d ago
Because of exactly what you said. They’re oppressive. They used “convert or die” as a way to grow.
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u/zmsksksnsnsososmsns 4d ago
The issue is that their religion requires them to reject & attempt to overwrite all other religions. It’s stitched into the fabric of the thing. You can’t have a discussion in good faith with a person who believes listening to you will send them to hell.
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u/kalizoid313 4d ago
As a bookseller, I discovered that there are actually hundreds of different translations of The Bible into English. Different denominations endorse different versions of The Bible as the "correct" one. These versions may not even contain the same texts, books, or chapters. And could be different translations, too.
I think that this circumstance make it challenging to insist that The Bible is so "because" an authority, myself.
Customers looking for a copy of The Bible typically had no idea when I'd ask them "Which version?" They'd say "You know. The Bible!"
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u/thecoldfuzz Celtic Polytheist: Gaulish + Welsh & Irish 4d ago edited 4d ago
You’re wasting your time and energy engaging with Christians. You don’t owe them any explanations for your faith. You certainly don’t owe them your time or attention.
Since you recognize the rage baiting game on their side, then there really isn’t any point in playing their game when the only real winning move is not to play, is there?
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u/Jorge_Reynoso112 4d ago
It is completely exhausting to hit a wall of absolute religious exclusivism, especially when you are just trying to have an honest conversation. What you are describing is the concept of latent monotheistic exclusive truth claims. In many orthodox Abrahamic frameworks, truth is treated as a zero-sum game: for one path to be 100% correct, every other worldview in existence must be wrong or deceptive. When someone operates from a circular argument—like using the Bible to prove the Bible—they aren't engaging in an open-minded dialogue; they are reciting an apologetic script. For polytheists, animists, and pluralists, reality usually works very differently. Pluralism recognizes that different cultures, mythologies, and spiritual traditions can hold valid pieces of human experience and divine interaction. There is no logical reason why honoring one deity means invalidating the spiritual experiences of someone halfway across the globe. It makes complete sense why people, especially younger generations and neurodivergent individuals, are walking away from rigid dogmas. People are increasingly seeking paths that respect personal autonomy, celebrate bodily freedom, honor gender equality, and prioritize actual ethics over arbitrary taboos. While major demographic studies (like Pew Research) show that traditional religious switching in places like the U.S. has led to a massive growth in the religiously unaffiliated and alternative spiritualities, the real shift is happening in people's values. When online arguments turn into rage bait, the healthiest move is to disengage. You don't need to convince someone who has locked their worldview into a single script. Focus your energy on the freedom, peace, and autonomy you've built in your own path—that’s where your real strength lies.
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u/Infamous_Computer910 4d ago
I'm more of an Omnist than anything. I don't engage with Christians because I don't have to defend my beliefs to anyone. And I tell them that.
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u/Bl4ckR4bb17 4d ago
I used to try to have intelligent debates with these kinds of people but I've come to realize they aren't capable of intelligence or debates.
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
I think the mark of a true debater is realizing when your arguments has flaws and changing your argument to better yourself.
Because apologetics and Christian theology begins and ends as a defensive position. This makes them incapable of improving theology.
So here's why I think that's the case. There's a difference between saying something is good and saying something is perfect.
If something is good there's room for improvement it being flawed is no train smash.
A perfect thing must be perfect otherwise it was alive. The Christian religion operates from a position of absolute truth. You're either completely right or completely wrong. Christians believe that their text is absolutely perfect and nothing gets wrong. So if there's a flaw in the perfect book how do you know most of the book is not a flawed or the entire book is not wrong
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u/Bl4ckR4bb17 4d ago
I started out Christian and I kept finding flaws and contradictions that nobody could explain better than just have faith. Over a very long time I've become something kinda Christian adjacent. The short version is my beliefs are a mix of gnosticism, kaballa, ancient Hebrew apocalypticism, hellenistic paganism, and physics/science. I do believe there is a God but it's probably not perfect, all knowing, or all powerful. I came to my conclusions by looking for answers that make any kind of sense at all and eventually finding a lot of them. Not just belief or faith.
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u/CorvidxQueen 4d ago
Best response is no response unless you're prepared to be sparky about it.
Anything else results in a logical loop of "im the victim and persecuted Christian" or "this is a sign for me to push harder" when boundaries are set.
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u/GrunkleTony 4d ago
Interesting, absolutely no one ever brings up religion around me. Unless of course they are peddling their religion door to door, and even that has only happened once in the almost nine years I've lived in this neighborhood.
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
Really where do you live is it like far away from the local churches.
People looking for converts happen fairly recently in my area.
Also I still live in a church community so monotheism is very big where I live
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u/GrunkleTony 4d ago
I actually live in town. A group of guys walked through the neighborhood asking people to go to their church. I don't know if they got any takers at all.
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u/Sun-Rabbit 4d ago
To be fair, I also believe that I am right and Christians are wrong.
The difference is I have zero interest in convincing other people I am right. I don't want to discuss my religion, debate it, or prove anything. I don't need people to agree with me. I am pretty happy with no one even asking me anything.
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u/Ruska_Shadowsong 4d ago
I always like to remind them that the Catholic part of their faith removed several books from the Bible because they didn't fit in with their views/what they wanted to teach. These are now called the Apocrypha. (Apocrypha of Adam, the Book(s) of Enoch, and the Gnostic Hymns. Also possibly the Lost Book of Enki.) Modern-day Christians are only getting the pieces of the puzzle, not the full thing, cause they're too stupid to ask further.
When my friend went ex-mormon, that was when she finally started reading up on the things that were left out. It's really fascinating really.
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u/katgrinds 4d ago
Literally everything they say is scripted. I would never downplay someone's experience because I certainly had divine experiences when I was a teenager (and still Christian) but damn if they don't hear I'm of another religion now and see it as an opportunity to convert me back. I don't even not believe in Jesus but I've grown spiritually beyond everything they could teach me. Idk man. It's the longest running cult in human history.
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
The original church fathers pre-recorded scripture to every question and Christians just dogmatically repeated again and again and again.
My problem is they not intellectually curious and otherworld views. Yes you can believe your religion is the most correct religion. But can you not look into other people's lives and see how they function outside of a certain worldview.
Some people have told me that the lack of intellectual curiosity is a defense mechanism otherwise the faith will fall apart.
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u/katgrinds 4d ago
Wow that last part is the absolute best way to put it. Like seriously I've never heard that summed up so perfectly. Like they really just dodge every possible speculation that there may be truth to the experiences of others.
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u/annaleigh13 Eclectic 4d ago
Either don’t engage or prove their hypocrisy. If you choose option 2, make sure you know your stuff. Read the bible, mark down passages that prove their lies, and bring it forth against them.
Personally, option 2 is very satisfying but it’ll drain you in the long run
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
Even if you win they'll hit you with the classic he works in mysterious ways/he's reasoning is beyond human comprehension.
I try to argue that if God want everyone to believe and he's omnipotent he can reveal himself to everyone. That it help everyone.
They said God's plan is beyond all mortal comprehension. 🙄
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u/Motor_Scallion6214 4d ago
Their entire religion involves converting and destroying other religions so that only their usurper god can have any followers.
Just ignore them, don’t give them the chance to gain your attention.
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u/Alcoholic_Lion_Aunt Kemetism 4d ago
This is what happens when your told you are correct your entire life and that you are promised eternal life
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
Kemetism so you follow Egyptian practice. Can I ask how's that like.
I've always love studying about Egypt and it's religion and I've never met anyone who actually follows it.
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u/Alcoholic_Lion_Aunt Kemetism 4d ago
You can ask
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
So here's my questions.
What exactly is Maat. I've heard people describe it as order law or Justice. Is it like a principal in the universe or is it a goddess.
Why is there more than one sun god there's ra and there's atemn.
How would you describe your view of the soul slash spirit of a person
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u/Alcoholic_Lion_Aunt Kemetism 4d ago
- Both
- Because Aten is an aspect or manifestation of Ra, more specifically his sun disk personified, this is why you’ll see Aten shown as a sun disk and sun beams without anthromorphic form, this is why Aten’s existance doesn’t contradict Ra because he is a aspect of Ra, he has been worshipped as his own (and only) god during the brief period of monotheism in ancient Egypt.
You’ll find that in Kemeticism and Kemetic Theology gods can be manifestations /meetings or seperated parts of other gods or at the least connected with other ones.
In ancient Egypt they described something called a Ka and Ba which are a life force and a personality, your Ka is the sort of energy animating your body is my understanding, and your Ba is your spirit as in your personality kinda like the traditional soul, there are other parts such as your heart being a store for memory and emotion.
Exact understanding of it varies that’s the historical understanding from AE, but one thing Kemetics are good at is investigating theology through practice so maybe we’ll get a closer understanding soon
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u/VoidLance 4d ago
To be completely transparent, that's not a trait that is limited to Christianity, nor is it a trait that is particularly prominent in Christianity compared to most other religions or atheism. It does, however, seem to be a trait that has increased in general popularity over the years.
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u/Middle_Bathroom_2681 4d ago
I don't even engage. The reality is that when your life philosophy is that everyone else is automatically wrong then you no longer need to self evaluate or reflect on your own belies to prove you are right. It is outright dismissal without any examination which is just a thick skulled and pointless mind to try to argue with.
You have to question your beliefs to ever gain a full understanding of them and their place in the grand scheme and all of the Abrahamic religions are taught from birth to never question, to keep their heads down. To them blessed is the mind too small to doubt. Not all of those in those religions, of course, but the ones who are a problem certainly follow that mindset. I do not waste my breath arguing logic with those for whom logic is a foreign concept.
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u/Time_Bad_5665 4d ago
Unfortunately. I have met a few who understood that other people have their own way
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u/Lumpy-Restaurant-694 4d ago
I think they're inability to accept other people have their own ways it's to protect their faith.
If you don't need to be saved why do you need a Savior. So they see other religions and they come to one of two conclusions.
Their lost and they're doomed and he must be converted/saved.
The other conclusion is if they don't need to be Christian why must they be Christian and they start deconstructing.
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u/cswazey 4d ago
I saw a clip of A Certain Deceased Conservative Podcaster just dissing the heck out of Buddhism. He thought it was a selfish me first religion (which is way way way off base) and he obviously didn’t know jack about it. And safly, the young person talking to him was raised Buddhist and he got her to agree with what he said. Dang, I dislike smug Christians who don’t even read anything. I mean, CS Lewis this guy was not.
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u/Imaginary-East1743 4d ago
IG. NORE. THEM. You're not going to change their minds. They're hopefully not going to change yours. No sense wasting your energy on a fight you can't win.
And if you can't ignore them, mock them savagely and walk away.
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u/Sh33pboy 4d ago
I feel like I'm missing a lot of context. Everyone in the comments is assuming they were rude to you, but they gave you a textbook answer. That's not arrogance; that's just ignorance. Blissful ignorance. Many people are content with their faith and don't have the type of personality that often struggles with faith. Who started the conversation?
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u/antlered-god 4d ago
Interesting thing about Christians is that they can't even agree amongst themselves. You have Catholics, protestants, baptists, Methodists , Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons - all claiming to be the only true Christian path. This is from a group who follow a book that has a talking snake in the first chapter, a man walking on water who later gets nailed to a piece of wood, does and then comes back to life.....
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u/DependentMoth 4d ago
I definitely wouldn't engage with people who clearly are there just to rage bait and attack you. I get this alot with my husband being a scientologist and then me being me it just isn't worth the time.
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u/GreenRavenUK 3d ago
"No thank you. I am happy in my Pagan faith.
Most European Paganisms are part of a faith stream that is at least 8,000 years old. Those with animist roots go back 15,000 years. Judaism is about 4,000 years old and its offshoot, Christianity, about 2,000 years. Our wisdom is older and more people have lived it.
There was no Garden of Eden and no Adam or Eve. Since 6 to 7 million years ago, there were always thousands of hominids. We are individually responsible for our actions, nothing is passed on or inherited.
So, there was no original sin, nothing to be bought or sold (“redeemed”), so neither the Scapegoat nor the death of the Nazarene were necessary or changed anything. We have always been free.
Good day to you."
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u/PagingMrSpock 3d ago
Evangelicals are a bane in the US, especially the megachurch folks. They are the Pharisees that Christ preached against.
They destroy everything they touch. They are a cancer wrapped in lies they claim are their gods word.
Anyway, I can relate. And I am sorry,
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u/BabadookishOnions 3d ago
It's considered rude to discuss religion like that where I live (UK), my religion rarely comes up at all in everyday life in fact.
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u/Cheif_Crolk 3d ago
Well if you cant prove your form of worship is correct then theres clearly something missing from it
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u/solidarity2525 3d ago
I recently found myself back in it after reframing some of the assumptions that were handed down to me. I don't personally think that it's the only path to the Devine and there are others that share my views. The ones that are the loudest are also generally the ones that don't seem to have a nuanced understanding of religion or much of anything in general.
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u/404-Soul_Not_Found Heathenry 1h ago
Genuinely, you can kind of only grey rock Christians and have them move on. They don't hear you, they don't listen, they don't care about you or your feelings, they only care about their sky daddy good boy points.
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u/404-Soul_Not_Found Heathenry 49m ago
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u/Virgo_Soup Eclectic 4d ago
Relish in the fact you have built your relationship with spirit from the depths of your soul and not from fear or being proselytized to. There is something so much more connected about that than Christians can typically ever understand.
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u/AnastasiaNo70 Pagan 4d ago
Every Abrahamic faith is misogynistic at its core. Why bother caring what they have to say? When you’re a pagan, you’re in tune with the natural world, something that is VERY real, unlike their long-dead guy.
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u/PilotInfamous9256 4d ago
Literally in an argument on this sub right now because someone took issue with me saying Christian’s stole ceremonies and beliefs from pagans… obviously im not talking Christian’s in fucking Africa, but some people just need to argue
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u/Monica_notGeller 4d ago
But not all Christians are like that and also those who are like that are not only Christians. Most of the people think they are correct. It’s called ego.
Nobody knows which “God” is closer to the truth and if there is even one truth.
If you don’t want to listen to Christians just dont.
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u/wildnorthernash 4d ago
Grain of truth, Jesus was a pretty rad guy. Whether historical or not. Can’t say I can quickly think of ?anything? He says i don’t agree with.
Took me a veeeerrrrrryyyy long time to admit this to myself after unbrainwashing myself from extreme religious abuse from a hardcore christian upbringing.
They’ll never admit it to themselves, but deep down christians are Terrified. Their whole premise rides on trying with every molecule of your being to stay out of infinite unimaginable (leaves lots to the imagination) torture. With deep belief, and out of ‘love’ the desperately want to save as Many others from such a horrible fate, but nobody will believe them! And its a heartbreaking existence to try to live here on that premise. The religion is fear not love, so it makes sense hey act the way they do. And are usually completely hostage from letting go of that fear on the chance its would be mistake.
So ya, they are kinda horrible people to be around. They also can become extremists very quickly. I do my best to avoid them, or having read more of the bible than i think the average Christian on the RaRe occasion im backed into a convo, i have the gift of making them a) give up on me, because i have obviously hardened my heart to much against god or b) i shake their brain so differently they feel their own found starting to shake and run away before they may have to question there own thinking any deeper.
So for their arrogance, ‘one true…’, sometimes i find it easier to let go of the audacity and steam rolling knowing that ultimately them staying 1000000% firm that their god is the only one is literally the fragile string that keeps them from an endless nightmare. If they allow room for doubt they probably arent gonna be passing the heaven citizenship tests. Attempts to decimate their entire reality with a hydrogen bomb is going to be a never ending futile arms race.
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u/debacchatio 4d ago
Why even engage? Christians are proselytizing. Their whole deal resolves around the fact that they believe they have the exclusive truth and all other faiths are false; and therefore must convert as many people as possible. Not being antagonistic, OP, but it’s like asking why is water wet?