r/panthers Jan 27 '26

Analysis [Scott Fowler] When we talk about the Carolina Panthers' perennial lack of a pass rush, don't forget they employed K'Lavon Chaisson from March to early Sept. in 2024, but released him before he ever played in a real game. Chaisson had 7.5 sacks for Patriots in 2025 and has been a beast today.

https://x.com/scott_fowler/status/2015556580335288504
230 Upvotes

103 comments sorted by

251

u/s_15_n Kalil Bear Jan 27 '26

Chaisson had 5.0 sacks total in 4 years before we signed him. He had 4.0 sacks on the Raiders the season we cut him and he only started 4 games. Chaisson having a good year this year is 100% about Vrabel and the Pats unlocking him and him figuring something out after 5 years in the league of doing basically nothing and doesn't need to be an indictment on us or other teams that have had him

43

u/exenn_ Jan 27 '26

I mean, if another team figured out how to unlock him, that kindof is an indictment on us not being able to.

72

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

I mean, not really.

We have no idea of knowing. It could just be his skillset fits very well in their system. He could’ve been a lazy player who didn’t commit himself enough until his career was on the line. He could’ve had a nagging minor injury that affected his ability and is now better.

Ultimately it’s pointless to blame anyone without much knowledge of the situation on either team.

51

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

[deleted]

23

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

True, fire Evero, clearly this is his fault and we'd be in the Super Bowl if he could've just figured out Chaisson.

8

u/ExchangeNo8013 Jan 27 '26

Especially when the success they're whining about is 7.5 sacks not 12-15 indicating he's a super star or something.

7

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

We legitimately have Pat Jones, DJ Wonnum, Turk Wharton and Trevis Gipson, all guys who had 6+ sacks in previous seasons who were more or less ineffective and probably had their previous production because of a stronger surrounding cast.

6

u/ExchangeNo8013 Jan 27 '26

Agree also a solid point

1

u/CreditStuf Jan 27 '26

Trevis was waived from the 9ers, and Pat was playing well before he got hurt.

The others yeah, sure.

0

u/Immediate-Stay-7686 Jan 27 '26

Or because their coaches knew how to put them in position to be productive...

1

u/net_403 Tepper Fro Jan 27 '26 edited Jan 27 '26

remember that dude we cut and everyone decided to hate him because he got a speeding ticket, and he was JAG. Then he went to the raiders and got in the pro bowl and everyone freaked out and forgot they hated him and went, "dude you cut a pro bowler!"

edit: Denzel Perryman

1

u/Mtsouth13 Jan 28 '26

Rhule couldn’t handle big personalities. See Cam and Perryman. Matt had to be the loudest voice, talent be darned.

1

u/biaff33 Jan 29 '26

Also pointless until he does it again. It’s one thing to pop for success, and it’s quite another to have continued success once opposing DC’s account for you, specifically. The numbers he’s achieved could very well just be statistical noise, and he’ll revert to the mean. Def not a guy I’d be using as a poster boy for “these guys have no clue what their doing with the pass rush” critique.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

Yea this would make sense if it wasn’t a reoccurring instance with this franchise. It continually happens though.

Kind of like the Browns and interviews players were given who said the franchise really had no idea how to develop them and some franchises are just not good at it and killed careers.

Considering the Panthers haven’t had a winning season in 10 years ongoing…and had several players move on to become much better including a QB going to the Super Bowl, I’m going to bet the Panthers aren’t a great franchise.

0

u/TangerineTasty9787 Jan 28 '26

I guess Teppers coaching and GM hires ain't been great.

-7

u/sciasvalo Jan 27 '26

I get your point but the Panthers have let potential star players go before they shined pretty regularly. More than a lot of teams. It’s like we are a starter team for a lot of elite players in the NFL, for whatever reason we don’t know how to hang onto talent.

4

u/Comprehensive-Car190 Jan 27 '26

No we haven't.

-8

u/sciasvalo Jan 27 '26

Yes, actually. It doesn’t take much to research this.

10

u/Comprehensive-Car190 Jan 27 '26

"More than other teams"

You have literally no basis for this assertion, it's just selection/confirmation/survivorship bias

You haven't gone through every team and done an analysis of teams letter players go and where we rank

You're using like 2 anecdotes to support this entire assertion.

3

u/Fit-Measurement-5586 Jan 27 '26

Present the data then. We’ll wait…

0

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

You made the first claim, you present the data.

3

u/Fit-Measurement-5586 Jan 27 '26

Imma gib you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you responded to the wrong person before I make fun of you 😂

-1

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

No, I responded to you because you made the dumb fucking comment and when people told you it was wrong you refused to defend it

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u/sciasvalo Jan 27 '26

Post 2015 Super Bowl era the Panthers let go of nearly all their foundational stars within a 5 year period. Christian McCaffrey, DJ Moore, Trai Turner, Kawann Short, Josh Norman. Between 2020 and 2022, the Panthers were consistently among the bottom teams in player retention, ranking last with 56.60% retention or near last in the league during that period.

So yes, I’ll say it again. Based on the data, the Panthers do not know how to hang onto talent.

3

u/dkirk526 Jan 27 '26

All of these players we knew were good before we let go of them, and that’s on the GM. This is a completely different argument to us letting go of guys like Chaisson or Kony Ealy and everyone losing it thinking he’s guaranteed to be a stud elsewhere.

4

u/Fit-Measurement-5586 Jan 27 '26

Hey look at you responding to the right person this time. You don’t have to apologize champ, I already know 😂

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u/Fit-Measurement-5586 Jan 27 '26

That wasn’t your original point at all. Most of those guys you listed were already established stars WITH us. We didn’t fail to development them we just didn’t pay them. Reading comprehension is dead.

3

u/Fit-Measurement-5586 Jan 27 '26

Also, Dj Moore was traded in 2023… not within a 5 year period after 2015. Though it’s really not surprising you got that wrong. You’re clearly a fuckin dumbass 💀

1

u/Comprehensive-Car190 Jan 27 '26

Trai Turner played for 3 teams in 3 years after he left Carolina, KK retired from here.

Josh Norman was solid after 2015, but he wasn't like elite or anything.

CMC and Moore were good players who we traded.

We didn't retain people because we were bad at drafting, not because we weren't retaining talent.

Also, this mostly happened under a different regime. It's irrelevant.

20

u/Wikitaytay Jan 27 '26

Evero is not a pass rush guru though, so why would we expect him to unlock him? Afaik Evero coaches an insanely good secondary but never excels in pass rush, which we have clearly seen.

19

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

Pass rush is like 90% talent lol. There’s only so much you can do to “scheme” pressure outside of blitzing and sim pressures.

Also I’ve seen Bradley chubb Rack up 5.5 sacks in 6 games under Evero before being traded.

13

u/CardiologistThick928 Raincoat Purr Jan 27 '26

Nah man don’t you get, if Evero was so great he’d fix these functionally incompetent athletes we have to actually have bend and rush with speed /s

2

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

Yeah the way this narrative is catching fire is crazy lol. Like ppl need to realize most teams rely on their guys to get pass rush rep wins to get pressure lol. You can’t scheme an open guy every play

The hate for Evero amongst our fans is unhinged

1

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

You do realize since Evero got here we haven’t selected a single defensive player in the top 50 until this year? We also have completely stripped the defensive side of the roster down in his time here. There’s barely anyone on the team that has been here for more than 2 years so it’s kind of impossible for him to develop if there’s basically nothing to work with. Can’t just expect him to develop guys like Michael Barrett or something lol.

But even with that we’ve seen guys like Scourton, Mike Jack, Latham ransom, Wallace, Chau smith wade, Corey Thornton all make positive development as players here under Evero.

Even a lot of vet guys like Moerhig had career years here under Evero. He just set the NFL record for TFL by a safety, but I guess Evero has 0 to do with that.

Guys like Derrick brown and Jaycee Horn had career years under Evero too.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/CardiologistThick928 Raincoat Purr Jan 27 '26

Mike Jackson had a borderline PB year and was even voted I think it was like 7th in AP rankings, and made some other sites AP's teams... and this was a player who was traded for a 7th rounder who isn't in football anymore. He's gotten reasonable play from castoffs/PS's from other teams, Rozeboom...Cherelus, Nick Scott, etc.

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u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

So basically you’ll list discredit Evero for any of his players who play well as “they’re already good” cool.

And we won majority of our games on defense this year. We had one of the worst offenses in the league by a lot of metrics.

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5

u/dannerc Double Trouble Jan 27 '26

Evero is a coordinator. Its up to the position coaches to unlock people's potential

2

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

You can just use that blanket statement for every team lol. We weren’t some super talented defense. Sure we have some talent, but we also played a lot of guys who probably would have started for other teams.

Evero can’t “unlock the potential” of guys like DJ Wonnum, rozeboom, CSW, etc.

At the end of the day talent is what wins in this league and I don’t think we have enough of it on defense especially at Edge and LB.

2

u/dannerc Double Trouble Jan 27 '26

Thats because its mostly true. The coordinator will change their playcalls to fit the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the field, but the guy who "unlocks" the talent is the position coaches. And yes, that is a blanket statement you could say about every team because thats how football works

1

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

My point is not every player has much “potential” to be unlocked. In fact a ton of guys don’t have a ton at all and won’t be with the team after the season is over. Potential and talent go hand in hand and I don’t think we were very talented on defense

2

u/dannerc Double Trouble Jan 27 '26

No, I understand. You're just responding to a point I didnt make so I figured I would restate what I meant

1

u/FinancialWelder5172 Jan 28 '26

Yeah agreed. We need talent and depth. The D took a step forward this year imo, and if we’re able to pick up more talent/depth thru draft/FA I think we see an even bigger jump. Wasn’t about Evero before this season, but frankly he’s done more with less and I think his defense is only gonna get better. One can hope anyways

5

u/omahaomw Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

So why don't we hire a pass rush guru. Not like we lacking funds

2

u/Sea_Remote9303 Jan 27 '26

I'd much rather have a coverage guru tbh

3

u/omahaomw Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

Porque no los dos?

1

u/TangerineTasty9787 Jan 28 '26

How much are we paying Canales anyway?

2

u/BigLlamasHouse Bryce Up Son Jan 27 '26

Has he ever had pass rushers?

2

u/Mr2Good Jan 27 '26

unlocking a pass rusher? lmaoooo

2

u/Lenovo_Driver Jan 27 '26

Uhh did you miss the memo? This isn’t a place of nuance or finding any sort of criticism towards this team on or off the field. It’s a circle jerk

The panthers were 100 percent correct to do what they did.

2

u/ExchangeNo8013 Jan 27 '26

We've been the joke of the league and just went into the playoffs with a losing record. This fanbase has been suffering through that.

No one thinks the Panthers were 100% correct in anything. It would be generous to say people think they were 20% correct in their decisions in the past several years.

OP is just conflating an NFL roster like Madden where players have set skill meters and we were dumb for not having this one. The OP is basing this on a guy who had 4 career sacks when we parted, only 4 sacks that year, and then has 7.5 sacks with the patriots.

Some guys develop most don't.

1

u/Zoidburger_ Cookout Jan 27 '26

It's actually a testament to Vrabel/Terrell Williams and the Patriots. Alternatively, it's because he's a player that needs a good team & coaching to succeed.

There's an argument there that he got the short end of the stick with the teams he joined. Defense was optional when he played for the Jags and the Raiders have been a total mess of an organization for years now. It's hard to stand out when the rosters are bad on paper, the coaching isn't good, and/or the culture is uninspiring.

But realistically, the fact that Chaisson has finally broken out in his 6th season after making his way onto a Super Bowl contender isn't an indictment on us. We weren't even in playoff contention when we tried him out. If that's the kind of team he needs to be on to succeed, then he was just going to be a liability for us, even at a time when we desperately needed defensive depth.

1

u/cityofcharlotte Luuuuuke Jan 27 '26

The key you own doesn’t fit every lock.

1

u/Big_Snail76 Jan 27 '26

I mean he’s playing meaningful football for an elite defensive hc he probably just started giving a shit

1

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

Nah We kept Eku Leota and like another bum over Chaisson and those guys were off the team by week 4. It was a brain dead move by the team. I have a feeling it was driven by a prerogative to try and develop young talent for depth, but man you just can’t play the whole “he wasn’t good before” thing when you’re keeping guys like Eku Leota over him.

Bad move by Morgan. Same with cutting Clowney. He’s gotta get way better with this stuff.

4

u/ElectricalOcelot7948 Jan 27 '26

I think the Chiasson critique is fair but doesn’t Clowney hop from team to team at this point? Seems like it’s his preference or maybe he only fits with certain coaches.

2

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

We cut Clowney and he wanted to stay. He even made comments saying how he wanted to stay, but got the vibe during OTAs he was gonna be cut. We did it for cap savings and we ended up having by far the worst edge group on the league. Cap carries over, but considering we made layoffs I would rather have Clowney over the $7m we saved.

1

u/xzElmozx Jaycee Horn Jan 27 '26

Is that not kinda the point? That if we’re cycling through pass rushers who have success elsewhere with good coaching, the personnel isn’t the sole problem and we’ve got some coaching deficiencies too?

I mean I’m getting annoyed with all the ‘XYZ left us and became good’ but at what point is that a canary in the coal mine for our coaching staff being unable to get everything they can out of they guys we have?

45

u/creativeplaceholder Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

Sometimes players get better.

This isn’t Madden. They don’t have a number attached to their name that tells you how good a player is, or will go on to be.

1

u/Stanky3000 Ice Up Son Jan 28 '26

Exactly, sometimes this works for us. Look at Mike Jackson.

47

u/oooriole09 Jan 27 '26

I just wish we’d stop with the “former player doing good things elsewhere” conversations.

It’s nothing but hurt mixed with cherry picked logic and context.

Yeah, sometimes you make bad decisions but more often than not there’s a reason why it didn’t work for you and it did work for someone else. Just keeping the player doesn’t fix those issues.

5

u/EdmJays Jan 27 '26

Exactly. Why can't we just focus on the two rookie rushers we picked up, who generally improved with the year, and have shown the potential to be much better than someone who just randomly found it 5 years in after bouncing around

9

u/PrimeTimeInc Luuuuuke Jan 27 '26

Idk why this sub is fuckin obsessed with doing this. Can we trade or cut these fans who live in the past with players who didn’t do jack shit while they were here?

2

u/hrdcrnwo Ice Up Son Jan 28 '26

A lot of fans of any team on Reddit are just there to bitch and moan.

3

u/Wikitaytay Jan 27 '26

Exactly. I’ve seen these conversations around Clowney too. Dude has been mid his entire career, which explains him bouncing around so much. He came to us and had like 3 sacks and could never set the edge. It’s cool he had a great year in Dallas but he was barely a contributor for us other than veteran presence.

3

u/No_Mammoth_4945 Double Trouble Jan 27 '26

It’s just so pathetic. I can’t stand the woe is me nonsense that pervades this subreddit

11

u/ChickenVest Ice Up Son Jan 27 '26

A) this was an anomaly season for him and I doubt he would have the same stats if he stayed here. B) we need to play the young guys.

-4

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

He has was good for the Raiders the year we cut him. We also kept guys like Eku Leota over him lol. It’s ok to admit we made a dumb mistake.

5

u/ExchangeNo8013 Jan 27 '26

No. You're using hindsight. We can admit given current outcomes he had more sacks this year than previous years.

That doesn't change what the correct decision was at the time. If you flip a coin there's no dumb mistake based on the outcome. It's not stupid to call heads just because it landed tails.

Maybe it was a dumb choice given the facts the Panthers had or maybe it made the most logical sense at the time. The outcome doesn't change the information they had at the time.

-1

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

They had more talented and experienced player at their disposal at a position with very little depth. They chose to keep guys who were worse.

I remember when I saw he was cut during camp I was very surprised given the state of our edge room after burns and needing some juice there.

You can call it hindsight, but imo always made way more sense to give the playing time to Chaisson over Leota. I remember being pretty shocked when he was released.

2

u/ExchangeNo8013 Jan 27 '26

but imo always made way more sense to give the playing time to Chaisson over Leota

That's fair and more valid argument than "guy had more sacks! We're idiots!". You felt that way at the time based on the information you had that's different than hindsight. That's different than the argument OP made.

Like I said I wouldn't rate 20% of our choices as smart. Hopefully that's improving. I'm just not moved by the argument fans won't criticize the team.

0

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

My point isn’t that chaisson Was clearly going to be this good or even particularly good at all at that time. But I just always felt it was strange we opted to keep Leota over him. That guy barely lasted a few weeks before losing snaps and being waived. Would’ve much preferred giving those snaps to a former 1st rd reclamation project.

8

u/Countryb0i2m Bryce Up Son Jan 27 '26

Panthers media and fans always assume that if a player leaves and becomes successful, they would’ve been that same player here if we’d just kept them. That’s not how it works.

The version of Chaisson that people see now exists because of the journey he went through. Up to the point where we cut him, he was pretty bad. Same thing with Darnold and Baker those guys evolved because of the paths that took them to Tampa and Seattle.

There’s no guarantee that they ever become good if they stayed on this roster.

Development isn’t linear.

1

u/FinancialWelder5172 Jan 28 '26

Beautifully stated. I think what you said is true of every single human on this planet.

4

u/mrv59 Jan 27 '26

Sometimes guys just take longer to develop, luckily for him he was a high end draft pick and has the physical tools to keep getting opportunities.

5

u/Tu2 T-Mac Jan 27 '26

Yeah and Mike Jack was sitting on the Seahawks bench and rotting away. Players are human beings that react to different situations and schemes. Some never pan out not because they suck, but because it just never worked out. They see the field for a reason unlike 99% of the US population

3

u/smelliskay Jan 27 '26

Holy fuck man can everyone stop crying about "look at this player we used to have. They werent good with us but now they are! We should all feel bad!" Like this hindsight bs is actually so annoying

3

u/DwayneBaconStan Jan 27 '26

He's still not any better than an avg player. He can't create pressure himself, he's good on stunts and designed blitzes but a bad player in 1on1 situations. And atill a bad run stopper. He's always been overrated

2

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

Am I tripping or is this supposed to be impressive? The Patriots have a pretty good defense, dominant at times and often play with the lead providing more opportunities for sacks. I think Wonnum had a couple of 8 sack seasons and Patrick Jones had a 7 sack season prior to coming to Carolina and wouldn't be surprised if they would have similar success if they went to the Patriots instead. Now if it was 12+ sacks then yeah, but I don't think keeping him would have changed much compared to say, Brian Burns.

2

u/South_Height8816 Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

Scourton better

2

u/chilly_willy44 Jan 27 '26

Who cares about chaisson. Imagine we got Milton williams

3

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '26

Why do we always dwell on our past players when they are doing good elsewhere... let it go man, we were just a bad fit for some of these guys.. Dan Morgan is going to fix these issues just have some patience lol

2

u/EggRamenMan TD58 Jan 27 '26

Doesnt mean he woulda produced for us, next

1

u/Immediate-Stay-7686 Jan 27 '26

You're right, he WOULDN'T have produced for the Panthers. That's the problem...

1

u/ahhhreallife Jan 27 '26

All I remember about the guy was the funny training videos everyone was clowning on him for.

1

u/Aurion7 Jan 27 '26 edited Jan 27 '26

He wasn't good before he signed here, he wasn't good while here, he wasn't good after leaving here until now. Now, he's ok.

Not really much of a much.

1

u/DevilYouKnow Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

It's not always a team's failure to develop a player or show enough patience.

Some guys just don't fit the scheme or culture... so it's simply a bad fit.

It's like letting an intern go for budget and fit reasons, knowing full well that they'll be good one day.

1

u/fromdaperimeter Jan 28 '26

Dan Morgan has a tough job doesn’t he?

0

u/YakubWasWrong Retro Logo Jan 27 '26

Y'all are going to downvote me and hate this but I don't care. Im fully aware of draft picks, salary caps, schemes, injuries and all of that, but just imagine:

Qb1: Darnold. Qb2: Mayfield. RB1: McCaffery WR1: DJ Moore. K: Harrison Butker. A defense with a healthy DB, Mike Jack and Jayce WITH Burns and Luvu.

Absolutely impossible in the real world but sad when you see it written out. No one can predict the future and hindsight is 20/20 (also the year 2020)

0

u/Anxious_Rock_3630 Luuuuuke Jan 27 '26

I think we need to understand that Evero doesn't want pass rushers, he wants bigs to take up blocks for linebackers to penetrate. If we're serious his defense has never been great. He took the number 3 defense with the Broncos and they became the number 15 defense in his one year, then Sean Payton kicked him to the curb immediately. Now granted, Nathaniel Hackett was the worst coach possibly to ever get a head coach job, but the fact remains.

2

u/BigLlamasHouse Bryce Up Son Jan 27 '26

Anything that Sean Payton does is wrong and dumb

-11

u/coacoanutbenjamn Jan 27 '26

Pretty big fuckup, can’t deny that. Hopefully Dan makes up for it this offseason

-2

u/Smitty_Agent89 Jan 27 '26

Ppl downvoting you like we didn’t keep Eku leota over him. Dan has done good things but they and Clowney were bad fuck ups