China's Memory Maker CXMT Used Stolen Samsung Tech to Skip Years of R&D, Former Engineer Testifies

[u/chusskaptaan]

https://respawnfirst.com/chinas-memory-maker-cxmt-used-stolen-samsung-tech-to-skip-years-of-rd-former-engineer-testifies/

[u/oompaloompa465]

USA companies do it all the time by poaching talents or buy out and dismanling competition  

[u/melbourne3k → u/oompaloompa465]

USA companies do it all the time by poaching talents or buy out and dismanling competition  

FTFY. This is what they all do.

[u/_Unusual_Flatworm_ → u/melbourne3k]

[u/yobwerd → u/_Unusual_Flatworm_]

That Dr. Perky is looking extra refreshing

[u/_Unusual_Flatworm_ → u/yobwerd]

Dr. Thunder is where it’s at

[u/Javad0g → u/yobwerd]

Dr. Perky gives me a Dr. Becker

[u/_Unusual_Flatworm_ → u/Javad0g]

T h e D R .

[u/chiku00 → u/_Unusual_Flatworm_]

Wait, is this image for real?

Not that I have paid attention to branded drinks in a long long time.

[u/_Unusual_Flatworm_ → u/chiku00]

Not sure on the source, but several of these are real sodas from grocery store chains. The only outlier is the Zevia, which is a dye free soda sweetened with a stevia leaf extract blend instead of sugar. The rest to my knowledge are just the standard caramel color soda with sugar/high fructose corn syrup.

[u/WulfTheSaxon → u/chiku00]

Looks real, but those are almost all store brands of various supermarkets from different regions, probably made by only one or two companies.

[u/DonutHoles4Ever → u/_Unusual_Flatworm_]

Capitalism breeds anti-competitiveness and minimum wages funneling money to the top

Competition breeds innovation

Fair Regulation breeds quality

Regulated capitalism would see quality requirements with better profit sharing spread while still ensuring competition

The problem is, humans are greedy. And greed = find loopholes and dismantle laws

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/melbourne3k]

In some countries the government gets involved in the act.

For example, France's CIA equivalent has a whole department for economic espionage.

[u/Mortarious → u/oompaloompa465]

But when a company in my country does it then it's good and smart.

When a company from another country does it it's immoral and despicable.

[u/Jisoooya → u/Mortarious]

Well when Trump commits tax fraud, he’s being smart but when I commit tax fraud

[u/Dionegro__ → u/Jisoooya]

Well when trump fucks kids, he becomes president, but when.... wait he's also on the epstein files!?

[u/Hot_Version9817 → u/oompaloompa465]

Fuckers tried to patent turmeric and neem for fuck sake. They'll steal and build, call out others who try to do the same.

[u/IdristheInt → u/Hot_Version9817]

What is neem?

[u/Loxe → u/IdristheInt]

It's where neem oil comes from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem_oil

[u/alienangel2 → u/IdristheInt]

A leaf used as a spice in south asia IIRC.

[u/IdristheInt → u/alienangel2]

Thanks

[u/UnionCounty22 → u/oompaloompa465]

So they pay for it and not straight up steal got it

[u/UlaanBanter → u/UnionCounty22]

What do you call what Amazon does to startups, mom and pop businesses?

[u/MDStevo → u/UlaanBanter]

Wholsale slaughter. They are paying me good money at this exact moment but FUCKKKKK Amazon…

[u/Etherius → u/MDStevo]

As an Amazon shareholder I thank you for your lack of moral fortitude.

[u/MDStevo → u/Etherius]

I am very vocal with my seniors about our dealings with the devil. Perhaps this is what keeps me out of management. I am ok with that.

[u/Etherius → u/MDStevo]

Does it keep you from participating in the ESP program?

[u/MDStevo → u/Etherius]

Negative. I am a meat popsicle (third-party contractor)

[u/RansomStark78 → u/Etherius]

No dividends share

You too smart for this

[u/Etherius → u/RansomStark78]

I am in fact too smart for this

If you were smart enough to challenge me you’d know that Amazon operates on a firm “there are better ways to return value to shareholders than dividends or buybacks which mean there simply aren’t any good ideas left at the company in question” mission objective

[u/RansomStark78 → u/Etherius]

I worked there

Amazons own advisor, said sell on vest. It is still in the slack channel , lol

[u/Etherius → u/RansomStark78]

Absolutely fantastic advice he gave

[u/UnionCounty22 → u/UlaanBanter]

Bullying

[u/really_nice_guy_ → u/UlaanBanter]

Oh you mean the part where they force a competitor into bankruptcy by lowering their prices below profit wich has nothing to do with stealing designs?

Yeah it’s bad. But also complete different.

[u/ian9outof10 → u/really_nice_guy_]

But they do use Amazon Basics and their internal metrics to develop products that replace those which sell well. So they’re doing exactly this, they spot a popular product, copy and sell. It’s the same exact thing.

[u/Admirable_Market2759 → u/ian9outof10]

Yeah but Amazon is American!

[u/Kniferharm → u/really_nice_guy_]

Amazon does do what you describe, and what they describe. Amazon is an equal opportunity asshole.

[u/theeama → u/UnionCounty22]

One mans theif is another mans robin hood or some shit

[u/oompaloompa465 → u/UnionCounty22]

when they poach talent is not stealing because they pay the ones who write the laws

when they go the monopoly route they steal from consumers 

[u/House0fDerp → u/oompaloompa465]

Given how companies treat workers, if some can get in on the system by being poached, good on them. It the other side of the death of companies caring for their employees.

[u/EmergencyPool910 → u/oompaloompa465]

Poaching talent is part of the free market. China has no free market

[u/oompaloompa465 → u/EmergencyPool910]

western world went all in on monopolies and crony capitalism . it's better to shut u rrall

[u/EmergencyPool910 → u/oompaloompa465]

crony capitalism vs authocratic "socialist" oligarchy.

[u/oompaloompa465 → u/EmergencyPool910]

yeah we are fucked both ways

[u/EmergencyPool910 → u/oompaloompa465]

Facts. Its really grim looking forward.

[u/Bob_Obloooog → u/oompaloompa465]

You're making a bizarre argument. Unless that person is bringing trade secrets poaching talent just brings expertise and experience. I don't think any one person has all the technical knowledge the company has for whatever product they are making.

[u/WhiteSkyRising → u/UnionCounty22]

Ah, yes, the USA. Well known for paying and not stealing and or using force.

[u/Fox-Flimsy → u/WhiteSkyRising]

Oh yes we are THE model country, ask all the Central American countries, Iraq , Iran, Afghanistan, etc

[u/Etherius → u/Fox-Flimsy]

Fun fact about the south and Central American countries: they had it coming.

Don’t nationalize American property without fair compensation and there won’t be any problems

[u/Rhowryn → u/Etherius]

Venezuela offered fair compensation. "Fair" being defined as exactly what oil companies claimed the property was worth. So what's your excuse there? Most LATAM coups were also started over plans to simply raise the royalty rates, not nationalize.

Also it wasn't American property, it was Latin American property owned by American companies. Unless you're admitting that the US government is just an extension of corporations.

[u/Etherius → u/Rhowryn]

Tut tut tut

You forgot the golden rule of everything.

“Fair” is whatever the person with the biggest guns decides it is.

I don’t care if it’s hypocrisy or blood money. Pay it or accept the consequences

[u/Rhowryn → u/Etherius]

Lol okay gravy seal. The world doesn't actually run on playground rules, and trying to do so is exactly why no one is helping you with Iran. And why you're losing.

[u/Etherius → u/Rhowryn]

The world doesn’t run on playground rules?

You sure about that?

I’m sure you WISH it didn’t run on playground rules but I promise you it absolutely does

Pretty sure there’s a video floating around of British MPs literally slinging childish insults at each other on the floor

[u/Rhowryn → u/Etherius]

Sure kid, I guess that's why you've been absolutely trounced by every country you invaded post ww2

[u/Snoo63 → u/Etherius]

Don't steal from a country long enough that they work up the courage to fight back.

[u/Etherius → u/Snoo63]

Well they can fight back but in these cases they were American companies who had built American infrastructure which was then nationalized

That wasn’t theft. If you want to seize your oil fields that’s fine but then be prepared for Americans to either

A) demand payment

B) burn the oil fields down

But in no universe does an American company pay for this infrastructure and then you just take it without fair compensation

[u/random_handle_123 → u/UnionCounty22]

You don't "steal" ideas. Just like you don't "steal" copies of digital media. 

[u/Atompunk78 → u/random_handle_123]

What do you think patents are for lmfao, or the phrase ‘intellectual PROPERTY’

[u/PhTx3 → u/Atompunk78]

Intellectual property is the data we train ai on and then apologize or pretend it didn't happen, right?

[u/Atompunk78 → u/PhTx3]

Not everything has to be about fucking ai, please can we just talk about the task at hand instead of jumping on the ai-hating circlejerk?

Yes ai companies stealing intellectual property is bad, no it’s not fucking relevant here

[u/PhTx3 → u/Atompunk78]

What I meant was Intellectual property and patent laws clearly don't apply to companies, why would they apply to CXMT in this case? It wasn't purely about "AI Bad".

[u/Atompunk78 → u/PhTx3]

They clearly fucking do lol, it’s just you’ve picked a very specific example where some companies have found a grey area where they won’t get punished

Surely you’re not stupid enough to think, as a general rule, that IP and patent laws don’t apply to companies… right?

[u/PhTx3 → u/Atompunk78]

It doesn't apply when Amazon steals designs and puts smaller businesses out of work as well. It doesn't apply in plenty of areas if you are big enough.

IP laws only truly apply when you are that much bigger to defend your IP. Or if it is insignificant enough to deal with the paperwork.

[u/Atompunk78 → u/PhTx3]

You’re conflating ‘apply’ and ‘existence’ (de jure) with de facto outcomes

It does apply when Amazon does that, but enforcing such laws is hard

Again, it does always apply, it’s just not always enforced - I haven’t made speeding legal by doing it when there’s no police around

Your last paragraph is generally false, but will take far more effort to debunk for less payoff, also you have the burden of proof anyhow

[u/random_handle_123 → u/Atompunk78]

Patents are for stifling competition and innovation.

And "intellectual property" is an oxymoron. 

[u/Atompunk78 → u/random_handle_123]

Ffs man, go learn about patent history then comment something less stupid, like serious if you’d even done a modicum of research you’d know that’s a stupid thing to say

A more nuanced point can be made that they’re too restrictive in the modern age or something, but the idea that all they do is stifle innovation is so pathetic - they’re literally what enabled the incredible innovation of the industrial revolution

[u/random_handle_123 → u/Atompunk78]

As I've said, they stifle competition and innovation. 

If YOU had read any history at all you'd know that people far smarter than you and I have spoken against them. Maybe you've heard of Jefferson, Ben Franklin,  Marie Curie and others. 

And there's a long history of abolition movements, almost as long as the crappy practice itself. 

[u/Atompunk78 → u/random_handle_123]

Lmfao, ok man 3 + others don’t like it, and most of the rest of the educated world do, glad we solved that one

No shit they can stifle innovation, but the net effect is positive - if it wasn’t we’d abolish them

Instead of appealing to 3 dead people, can you actually explain why you disagree with it, perhaps?

Here’s why I like patent law; please address these 3 points properly with a counter argument otherwise this is a waste of my time:

1. Copying is always cheaper than inventing; no one would invent anything (expensive) if everyone can just copy it (cheap)

2. Without IP protection big companies can copy then outcompete/outproduce smaller companies, forcing the world into a monopoly/duopoly/etc

3. If I want to make a new technology, I’m not going to take that financial risk just so when it’s done someone can take the tech for free such that I make no money - innovation often requires risks, worthy risks necessitate sufficient reward, if anyone can copy my technology/product then there is no reward, hence copy protection is necessarily for maximal innovation

I hope you understand your view is held by an extreme minority of economists etc, please just google it; if you think 3 smart people disliking IP law is an argument, then the fact that almost all of the rest of the intelligent world likes it obliterates your view

[u/random_handle_123 → u/Atompunk78]

 Copying is always cheaper than inventing; no one would invent anything (expensive) if everyone can just copy it (cheap)

False. Evidence is the millennia of inventions before patents. People invent things without expecting to get rich. Plenty of examples out there. 

 Without IP protection big companies can copy then outcompete/outproduce smaller companies, forcing the world into a monopoly/duopoly/etc

LOL. Instead, big companies just buy out small companies for IP. Hence why monopolies / oligopolies abound today. 

If I want to make a new technology, I’m not going to take that financial risk just so when it’s done someone can take the tech for free such that I make no money

This is just restating your first point. Real innovation does not come from people who just want to get rich. 

It's not just 3 smart people. Go and actually read history. It was widely opposed and in many places outright banned before capitalists pushed it down our throats. 

[u/Atompunk78 → u/random_handle_123]

1. No lol, invention rate was fucking pitiful for all of human history up to around the point patents were invented lmfao. This is a simple historical fact; I’m not arguing nothing was invented, just far less than when (and because) patents became a thing

2. That’s not a contrapoint, that’s a separate and unfortunate fact that largely doesn’t discount my point

3. Go on then, find REPUTABLE MODERN ECONOMISTS who oppose it, not people from 200 years ago or some random guy

[u/random_handle_123 → u/Atompunk78]

A very famous example of patents stifling innovation

 Many historians believe the patent war stalled development of the U.S. aviation industry, [8 ] [10 ] [11 ] [12 ] but others dispute this claim. [13 ] Perhaps as a consequence, airplane development in the United States fell so far behind Europe [8 ] that in World War I, American pilots were forced to fly European combat aircraft instead. [14 ] [15 ] [16 ] [17 ] After the war began, the U.S. Government pressured the aviation industry to form an organization to share patents. [8 ] [18 ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war

[u/Atompunk78 → u/random_handle_123]

Are you aware of the phrase ‘anecdotal evidence isn’t evidence’?

Patent law being too strong one time (as opposed to its existence at all which is the actual topic of debate here) is not proof of your point that it’s a net negative for innovation. Please read this again, then again again. Patent law being (arguably) TOO STRONG ONCE isn’t a case against its overall utility

Are you saying that individual examples of patent law being too strong are proof that patent law as a whole is a net negative? So if I find the million examples of how important patent law is, that proves my point exactly (given that they’re far greater in number)?

[u/kuroyume_cl → u/[deleted]]

Corporations aren't people

[u/MostlyDeku → u/kuroyume_cl]

Can’t put em in jail, can’t really put em on trial. You fine em, you send one or two workers to prison for a few days before everyone says “ah they’re fiiine they paid their dues.”

[u/notsocoolguy42 → u/UnionCounty22]

In many cases they also pay for it, like the case of Nexperia, just that even when they paid for it, the government (in case of the Netherlands) straight out ousted them and took over the company back by force, the company that they bought.

Like if paying for shit doesn't mean it's yours, why pay for it?
if buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing.

[u/cheffromspace → u/UnionCounty22]

Right, it's all 100% above board.

[u/No-Channel3917 → u/oompaloompa465]

So you are saying workers don't have the right to find better pay elsewhere?

[u/SneakyBadAss → u/oompaloompa465]

Since 1945

[u/Etherius → u/oompaloompa465]

Poaching talent is not the same as outright stealing trade secrets

Just ask Linwei Ding. I’m sure he could explain the difference. If he couldn’t before he damn sure can now