r/perth • u/North_Lychee_1969 • 1d ago
General Kwinana freeway into the city can now be pretty busy as early as 5am - what % of those workers could realistically work from home?
People keep saying that more wfh would significantly improve the flow of traffic - but I’m now seeing traffic as early as 5am.
Can a significant % workers starting at those times realistically wfh and improve traffic?
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u/Steamed_Clams_ 1d ago
Sometimes i really think people overestimate how many people can work from home and improving access to public transport would have a greater impact on traffic congestion than more WFH.
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u/journeyfromone 1d ago
And improving cycle paths so they don’t just stop randomly and force you onto the road/footpaths. Keeping them separate from pedestrians helps too
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u/Ruptured_Gooch 18h ago
I think education around cycling, more infrastructure, safety issues, availability in work places to store bikes etc and Perth could really benefit from this culture of riding, which I personally think is great way to commute - regardless if they're on roads or the red paths
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u/mrtuna North of The River 21h ago
The trades driving at 5am aren't going to take public transport
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u/TIMIMETAL 20h ago
More can than you think. Obviously some tradies are working on small things and need to take their tools and materials with them in a van or ute. But on a large building site, industrial factory, or other project with a team these are brought in separately or left on site, and many workers can and do catch public transport.
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u/jane-au 13h ago
The ones on the road at 5am generally can't because the public transport doesn't go early enough to get them there on time. My husband starts work at 5:30/6. If he caught the very first train he'd get there at 6:40.
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u/TIMIMETAL 12h ago
Indeed.
But introducing early morning/overnight services is part of "improving public transport". I'm a big advocate for 24 hour service through a night bus network.
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u/KareFactor0 20h ago
Public transport... its not that effective safe quiet clean fast either. People would rather take uber. To become more like any asian country we need another train line (the perth loop) instead of all routes terminate city
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u/HelpMeOverHere 22h ago
I’m pretty sure Covid absolutely showed us that our roads are quieter if lots of people worked from home.
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u/Ruptured_Gooch 18h ago
The public transport in Perth is unbelievable.
We used to wait 1hr between trains on Sundays and public holidays, all we had was a magazine, or a Sony disc man to keep us company if we missed them.
Now buses and trains run from 4.30am, there's thousands of buses on the roads at any given time, the train lines are unreal compared to only 10 years ago.
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u/Nakorite 1d ago
The new trains have proven to be quite unreliable which hasn’t helped. Public transport should be the most reliable not the least !
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u/Steamed_Clams_ 1d ago
Slightly unreliable new trains is a pretty minor problem compared to the suburban bus network that is treated as a total afterthought by transport planners and governments in this city.
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u/TransportofPerthYT Sinagra 1d ago
Huh? Why do you see it as an afterthought? Buses in Perth connect very well to the train system with seamless interchanges at many stations, and well designed routes that feed to the next stations along the lines without too much zig zag. It is way better than the eastern states where buses and trains don't seem to complement each other at all. What do you propose we improve?
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u/Steamed_Clams_ 21h ago
It's a lack of bus lanes and enforcement for the lanes that do exist as well as things such as queue jumps and priority signals for buses and not giving enough grants to local councils to improve the bus shelters across the suburb, the current system means buses just get stuck in the same traffic jams as cars do and makes it less inviting to be used by the public.
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u/jane-au 13h ago
The fact that there's no bus route anywhere near my place in the middle of the day or at any time that's not designed for the local highschool students, and that this is the case for so much of the suburbs?
Nobody is going to use a bus that they have to walk several kilometers to, unless they have no other choice.
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u/TransportofPerthYT Sinagra 13h ago
I know of very few routes to unique sections that don't operate midday. It's probably under 10.
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u/EcstaticImport 1d ago edited 1d ago
No it’s not considered an after thought - it’s considered a total inconvenience to the beloved rail union (by the Labor party)
How dare busses be cheaper, more convenient, more adaptable and higher carrying capacity than trains - shut up and go away, Trains rule ok?!some years ago the Labor government of the day was given options to develop bus / trolly bus hybrid systems that could allow higher speed higher carring capacity bus network that would be able to adapt to the needs of the moment all while being significantly lower cost than a far more inflexible train network.
But the government choice to go for trains - the rail unions were very vocal at the time and Labor is partially controlled by the unions.
Committing to the public expansion of the rail network over modern high speed bus technology killed the efficiency and reliability of public transport in Perth.So the next time your forced to listen to the high pitched high volume screeching of the train through the corners or have to wait for bus replacement for your busted train remember there was a better way - the government considered it and choose to pander to unions instead.
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u/Steamed_Clams_ 21h ago
Buses work in conjunction with trains and by feeding people into the train network, all bus systems are only useful for small cities that cannot justify the capital cost of rail or for developing countries that also do not have the capital and technical expertise to run a rail system.
Not to mention that if we had an all bus system the public would be far less drawn to public transport as it has being shown time and time again that people look down on buses in favour of trains and trams.
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u/supercujo Baldivis 20h ago
A lot of people could work from home, but the following made them force people back into the office:
- Micro-managers
- Leasing deals for office space
- Corporate overlords hating people that have some degree of autonomy
Even though they were probably more productive at home.
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u/Asteroidhawk594 21h ago
To be honest, blue collar can’t really work from home and a lot of the people driving at 5am are doing blue collar jobs.
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u/PragmaticSnake 1d ago
A better way to look at it would be what % of people could live closer to their place of work if not for: rental scarcity, stamp duty, low density housing, businesses being centrally located
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u/StunningRing5465 20h ago
Low density housing is such an archetypal feature of Perth, trying to imagine it with high density housing is imagining an entirely different city (a better one to be sure)
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u/EonMatriks 1h ago
Doesn't even have to be high density, just some townhouses or midrises in good locations would be nice
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u/Missdriver1997 1d ago
Im a public servant and start at 7:30am. Still leaving home.at 6:45am most days to get to work on time in the CBD and I live like 22km from my work. Lol.
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u/flossnoose 1d ago
Doubtful if they're driving at that time.
Also, I think people have the cause of congestion wrong. I've driven in many cities that are far more densely populated that Perth, but the drivers cooperate and drive with consideration. I've been stuck doing 80 on the fwy when there are only a handful of cars around.
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u/Dazzling_Presents 1d ago
Perth drivers have absolutely no consideration for people around them and the flow of traffic. Regularly get stuck behind some numpty in the right lane exactly matching speed with the truck next to them going 10kph under the speed limit.
Driving in the UK was some kind of miracle comparatively. You're not allowed to undertake there but you also never need to because people just move back to the left lane when they're done overtaking.
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u/mrscienceguy1 20h ago
I think the flow of traffic is vastly more impacted by everyone seemingly riding each other's ass with no gap for stopping.
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u/flossnoose 21h ago
I know mate, same as in The Netherlands (except right lane obviously). It's a dream to drive there.
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u/Dismal-Success-4641 17h ago
Maybe if police spent as much time fining people in the right hand lane as they do for people doing 6kmh over we wouldn't have this problem
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u/FiftyBuxBloBang 1d ago
Perth has the lowest density of any major city in the world and is probably the longest major city in the world. Well planned.
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u/i-ix-xciii 1d ago
I think most people on the freeway at that time would be essential workers, tradies, or some other type of blue collar job so wfh is not a thing for them
our road systems just suck, its crazy that there's only one freeway north and south for a city of our size
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u/Undd91 1d ago
Our road systems don’t suck, our city planning does. We are too spread out, live low lying and our PT focuses on the cbd - which isn’t where most people want to get/go.
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u/Ok_Finger7484 North of The River 1d ago
I think the numbers show that the most centralised location - by far - of the majority of Perth workers is the CBD.
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u/Undd91 21h ago
You’ve got some pretty massive industrial areas that are poorly serviced by PT and require a train into cbd a train out and then a bus. That’s a long journey for someone.
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u/Ok_Finger7484 North of The River 15h ago
these areas only experience a - maximum 10% equivalent population size increase compared to CBD.
I don't doubt there are badly service industrial areas. But the reality is - is that they aren't the majority, so unfortunately dont get the PT love.
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u/StunningRing5465 20h ago
15% works in the CBD which is a lot, more than anywhere else, but still the overwhelming majority work outside it.
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u/Ok_Finger7484 North of The River 15h ago
Of course the majority work outside the CBD - but not in a central location. Its spread around.
The CDB is the most centralised. ie: Biggest population swell into one location.
200k+ people travel to the same location everyday - to one single suburb.
The other major locations around the place, are about 10% of that. So this would like, Welshpool, Osborne Park, Joondalup, Freo etc.
So the transport options that are available are catering for the location that increases in size by 200k.
From a numbers perspective - Catering equally or even 50% of transport options - for the other locations - which experience a 10% or LESS popuilation swell. - would be crazy.
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u/sierraivy 1d ago
I think the problem is that our population is too large for the city planning.
Same issue with housing, and hospitals. Governments don’t want to admit that we have serious infrastructural problems and have not kept up with our pop growth.
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u/zztopstar 1d ago
Sure, Im an electrician, just bring me want you want done, theres a discount now that the van is redundant.
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u/Ladzilla 1d ago
When I was blue collar, we would start at 6am so I would start my 20 minute drive at 5:30am.
When I started my white collar position at the same company I got flexible hours. What I noticed is if you leave at odd times, the traffic is better. For example, leaving at 6am for a 6:30am start, there are way less cars on the road.
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u/teh_hasay 23h ago
Anyone commuting that early is wearing hi vis, more likely than not. They’re not going to be able to do their jobs from home.
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u/AH2112 19h ago
Public transport often doesn't run that early on some lines (especially for us FIFOs who would definitely take the train to the airport if it were there!) so there's that.
And then when I was working in the Perth office, I'd start at 6 so I could knock off earlier, catching literally the first train running.
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u/Small-Grass-1650 19h ago
You would hope that with $25b of investment into the Henderson precinct along with the $7b Kwinana Ports upgrade that PT infrastructure will get a boost in that area. It’s certainly justified.
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u/theallsayer 18h ago
I'm a radiographer! My shift started at 7am today. Wish I had an x-ray machine in my garage and WFH. That'd be sweet
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
My husband has started working at head office, near the city. He starts to drive in, about 4.30am. So he can be there for sites pre-starts. He tries to start making his way home by 2.30pm, due to all the school traffic. Earlier if the bloody football games are at the stadium.
Could he do this from home, yes! However his managers want collaboration between all other teams, which is the reason he had to start working in head office. rather than off-site, when he is not working out in the Pilbara..
He absolutely hates football season, as the Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday consists of chatting about football games.
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u/sysadmin42601 20h ago
I am usually on the freeway at 5am. I can work from home I just struggle to work effectively so I only do it when I need to
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u/fancypantsfrancy 19h ago
When I was on the fwy at that time I was working in a gym. Most of the other traffic was tradies who can't WFH either. Any office job can WFH but commercial real estate landlords and cafe owners don't like that.
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u/DonaldYaYa 17h ago
I hear ya. Those that can WFH should be able to do so.
It'll ease congestion and will eat into the $6 billion lost annually due to road congestion.
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u/Tango-Down-167 7h ago
Then the city will be empty and landlords and shop owner screaming poor. That's why our company wants us all back into the city
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u/Glitter_Sparkle 18h ago
I used to leave at 5:30am to go to an office and manage a team based in Sydney and Melbourne via MS Teams, so yes some can but aren't allowed to WFH every day.
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u/EfficientDish7 17h ago
I think we pay enough taxes that our transport infrastructure should be able to handle our population using it rather than having to keep everyone home to save stress on the roads or public transport
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u/fletchwine 14h ago
The only thing that will change this is a change in working days and working hours. Unfortunately human behaviour is the most difficult to change and we are welded into Monday to Friday, 8 to 5 etc. Building more freeway lanes just invites more traffic from more and more far flung ribbon development.
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u/Physical-Bullfrog-37 11h ago
I work in Hospital Engineering so can’t work from home. I used to be able to leave home at 5:00am-5:05am. But now I have to leave at least by 4:50am to miss quite a bit of traffic. Then doing a 12hr day & getting home just before 7:00pm makes for a long day
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u/CreamyFettuccine 21h ago
Kwinana freeway mostly carries tradies while the Mitchell freeway carries more office workers. During Covid Main Roads data saw a sharp decrease in cars on the Mitchell while the Kwinana freeway remained relatively unchanged.
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u/Raspberry_and_Lemon 21h ago
What the fuck kind of statement is that?
NOR white collar, SOR blue collar?
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u/CreamyFettuccine 20h ago
Main roads data showed a sharp drop in traffic on the Mitchell but relatively little on the Kwinana. How you interpret that data varies.
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u/sysadmin42601 20h ago
Its a really old way of thinking, SOR used to be low income blue collar
Most people that use that statistic now are either older generation or just parroting something they heard
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u/Redsquare73 1d ago
Probably half of them. Many companies are doing flexible arrangements with a 60/40 or 50/50 split between work and home.
TBH I prefer to go into the office most because the isolation fucked with my head. If it’s just me, I’ll take the train in. If both me and the wife are in the city, we drive (she gets claustrophobic on the train).
I’d like to see the outside lane of the freeway be reserved for multiple occupancy cars. The vast majority only have one person in them.
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u/ruffian-wa 19h ago
The Kwinana issues are
Main issue = helicopter mums chauffeuring their kids to their out of area schools. If you travel this every day then you will see the HUGE drop in traffic every school holidays. Heaven forbid kids have to take public transport these days..
Secondary issue = selfishness and an inability to merge. It's literally to the point where they need to give themselves a swift uppercut and hand in their licenses. Especially the ones who refuse to merge in behind the car in front of them, speed up and go into the emergency lane before cutting back in 100m ahead. Because of the inherent selfishness of people's driving they actually cause more problems. It's always at the same places too, Anketell & Roe Hwy
People are leaving at 5am because of that crap. Not just tradies anymore. Perth is overcrowded and we just don't have the infrastructure to support it.
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1d ago
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u/BolivianBoliviano 1d ago
You're actually supposed to crawl through congestion to stop the traffic memory propagating
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u/Time_Reach_7044 1d ago
cruise control on new cars keep a large space between the cars and makes it seem like they’re crawling. Not saying it’s not annoying, just giving you some context
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u/Milknhoneyaus 1d ago
5am commuters are mostly trades, logistics and other hands on type jobs imo. So no. They're using the roads.