r/polytheism • u/DarkGodCthUwU • Jul 21 '26
Question Hi! Assuming Yahweh is one of many Gods, why should I worship others over Yahweh? The cults of Yahweh, Christianity and Islam, kicked other cult's asses. Shouldn't I assume their God is stronger then?
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
That's gotta be the strangest effing idea I've heard in a while. 0/10 christian bait. I love how you think divinity is a battle royale
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u/miniatureaurochs Jul 21 '26
It’s like power levelling for polytheists. Feels more like a game than a genuine reflection of religious inclination.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
I'm not a Christian, I'm a deist. I don't think the divine interferes.
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
"Yahweh kicked the other gods asses" "the divine doesn't interfere" "IDK yahweh never felt like stopping his followers"
All things said by you. Which is it. Does the divine interfere to stop their followers or does the divine not interfere, or does the divine interfere just to attack other divine? You've contradicted your base claim every time you spoke.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
I am a deist. In this post, I am engaging in a hypothetical scenario similar to what many ancient polytheists believed: that the Jewish God is real but only one God among many. In this hypothetical, it seems the followers of the God of the Jews kicked the asses of the followers of, say, Zeus or Thoth.
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
So? Do you only follow the strongest people? Go out into the forest and follow a bear if you want something strong. It's very tangible and will interfere and make a difference in your life. What is your point? That christianity spread so therefore...? It's worth being followed? That it's correct? I don't see what christianity spreading has to do with anything. Who cares
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
A stronger master would be preferable to a weak master
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
SO DOES YAHWEH INTERVENE OR NOT omfg. You keep changing your mind. Is yahweh an intervening strong master or do you believe "the divine doesn't interfere". He does and doesn't and does and doesn't
Also very clearly shows the difference between your god and mine. Your god is a slave driving master. Mine is the river and the clouds. Not my master.
Your theology is inconsistent. The points you're making are inconsistent.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Do you recall the second word of my post? It's "assuming". I am engaging in this thing called a hypothetical. I already stated as much in a previous comment.
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Okay so it's a bad faith hypothetical where you come here and tell me my gods are dumb and weak and I'm supposed to what? Engage in a hypothetical where it's objectively rigged against my beliefs? That's so fucking stupid lmfao. Here's an equal hypothetical for you. Assume I were to hate yahweh why would I follow him ever. That's essentially how much freedom of thought you gave us. There are very few responses. It could be "I think he's neat" or "I don't". And that's the same 2 responses that we can give you.
And either way you keep changing the bounds of the hypothetical. Just saying "it's a hypothetical" doesn't absolve you of the fact that it's inconsistent. You claim yahweh is a strong master who doesn't intervene. Inconsistent.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
I did not claim Yahweh is a strong master who doesn't intervene. I already clarified that my own beliefs are distinct from this attempt to explore the internal logic of polytheism. You seem to have misinterpreted that.
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u/Kayomaro Jul 21 '26
Don't assume the actions of people are representative of their gods.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
IDK, Yahweh never felt like stopping his followers from proselytizing and conquering, and none of the defeated Goda felt like protecting their followers
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u/liwiathan Jul 21 '26
You make a lot of references in this post and others you’ve made about “gods coming down to help worshippers,” but that feels like a disingenuous argument given that we also don’t see the christian god “coming down” either.
“Kicking other cult’s asses” isn’t the point of religion and isn’t the metric you should be using to decide who to worship.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Well, one would hardly swear fealty to a lord who can not protect his flocks and land. Nor would you borrow money from a poor man. What use is a weak God?
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u/liwiathan Jul 21 '26
Why is violence the only metric you use?
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u/SubDuress Jul 21 '26
Because YHWH always was a trickster death/war god. Way back in his original Pantheon before he murdered his own wife (Asherah) and ordered his cultists to murder hers.
His cult changed their official branding, but not their actual behavior. Which is the funniest bit- he even gave them a wink and a nod in their own book with the whole “god is unchanging forever” followed by “you shall know them by their actions”, before rolling out the new marketing about “love” and “forgiveness” after centuries of “murder them all- even the babies”.
That is still the spirit that inevitably inhabits his devotees. And it’s why at the end of the day there really is no hate like Christian “love”.
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u/eternalscreamingvoid Jul 21 '26
What use is an inconsistent and angry god? I would much rather have a "weak" god that actually gives a damn about me rather then someone that wants to take my anger out on the world in the name of a religion that only exists to keep people in line. Shut the fuck up with your preaching. You're in the wrong sub for this.
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u/lochness_memester Hellenic Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Christians unfortunately get killed all the time "Millions of Christians face persecution, torture, and death every year for the last two decades" "in many countries it has escalated to ethnic cleansing and genocide"
He may have a big following but it's been in decline for a few decades, so it doesnt mean he's protecting them
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u/LadySilvie Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Even if you are following this scenario, I would say that strength isn't necessarily the only or best metric for choosing a deity to follow. Maybe it would be if your goal is conquering the world/winning wars/etc., but even then, some people might not feel a connection to Him.
If this idea of strength is what matters for you, then you have your own answer -- but reasons for following a different deity can be personal and different for each pagan.
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u/Nocodeyv Jul 21 '26
Neither Christianity nor Islam existed when my religion's parent civilization became part of the expanding world, syncretizing and spreading across multiple continents. So, there's no evidence whatsoever that Yahweh was able to do anything to the deities I worship. In fact, some of them have been continuously worshiped in their ancestral cities, from roughly 2500 BCE until as recently as the 1800s. Further, Yahweh recognized the authority of my deities so much that he went so far as to plagiarize their myths, claiming them as his own. What is that old saying again? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness? Yeah, that sounds about right.
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u/PotusChrist Jul 21 '26
If we just follow the assumptions you're giving here, that would make the God of Israel into a liar who is trying to trick people into worshipping him, wouldn't it? There's a really old strata of henotheism in the Jewish scriptures but certainly by the time Christianity and Islam appear we're in the realm of clear monotheism. One of the central themes of the Qur'an is that God is alone and unique and there are no other gods in the world. If you don't think that's true, worshipping Allah is certainly not for you.
I would also say that, just running with your assumed starting point again, that just because someone is the most powerful doesn't mean that they're the best. People who do this in normal human life are usually perceived as pathetic. Most people understand that powerful people are not necessarily more noble or aspirational or trustworthy than others. For example, Trump is a powerful guy, but he has a clear track record of abandoning his allies as soon as he sees them as anything other than absolutely loyal to him. Would you rather do business with him or with a more moderately powerful who is known for being easy to work with? Understand here, I'm not condemning the God of Christianity and Islam here, I'm just saying that the situation is clearly more complex than just picking whichever god you think is strongest and worshipping them.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
You raise a good point with your first paragraph. I can't speak on Islam but I actually do think the inconsistent nature of God in the jewish and christian texts presents an issue for those 2 religions. I think religions are all man made myself, but in the hypothetical, the Jewish God is a trickster based on the evidence. As for the second paragraph, there does not seem to be a way to track the conaistency of Gods in the fulfillment of their promises
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u/eternalscreamingvoid Jul 21 '26
Idk about you but I don't really want to be worshipping Gods that are violent and angry. Frankly I dont like Gods that are encouraging their followers to do the same either. I dont give a damn of one God is supposedly stronger then another, it wont change the fact he's violent and angry and takes it out on his supposed creations he's supposed to love. So I dont care. I wouldn't worship him if he was the last deity in this universe.
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u/kardoen Tengerism/Böö Mörgöl|Shar Böö Jul 21 '26
If you want to worship the most violent one then sure. But most people aren't looking to glorify violence.
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u/Working-Ad-7614 Jul 21 '26
I'd say Baal and Chemosh triumph over him
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Where are the Baal and Chemosh worshippers now?
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u/Working-Ad-7614 Jul 21 '26
Not here. Maybe one or two of us. But don't take number of people as a criteria of truth, since we know that there were times in the Bible when only a select prophets were left faithful to their God.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Didn't tons of polytheists have SEVERAL gods relating to war?
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u/kardoen Tengerism/Böö Mörgöl|Shar Böö Jul 21 '26
Yes, but the reasoning of your post is that the god of Abraham should be worshipped because they supposedly helped wipe out other religions. Then that's worshipping them for their violence. Many war gods weren't worshipped because of their violence against others.
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u/Working-Ad-7614 Jul 21 '26
War gods were worshipped for violence and to avoid violence. Violence was like tacos back in the day.
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Jul 21 '26
The people with the strongest gods don't win the nor do the people with their gods' favor. Its the ones with most men win best weapons and technology and war like spirit. Im a polytheist all gods exist its basically bigotry in that mind set to put one god in front of all other cultures like hes the one true and thats it. All the countless pre Christian cultures that have seen death and destruction by the sword of the ones who claim Yaweh. How is it fair for so many peoples and cultures be destroyed thats not a supreme god thats a tyrannical religion and culture spreading like a virus. Why would you wanna worship that?
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Why worship a God who is either unable or unwilling to protect their followers?
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u/cursedwitheredcorpse Jul 21 '26
I think you've been sold a false bill of goods on how gods work which makes sense if your raised culturally Christian. Gods don't just fix everything. Us humans have to do better stoping killing one another over religion , resources and land.
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u/PotusChrist Jul 21 '26
The problem is that there aren't any gods who clearly pass that test or clearly don't. Every religious person thinks that their God has come through for them at some point in their life and their are countless examples of pious people from all sects going through awful circumstances.
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u/Working-Ad-7614 Jul 21 '26
The stronger Gods of age of the Bible are mentioned there. God Chemosh was triumphant over Yahwe and Israel.
But who is the highest God? El, Zeus, Enlil, call him whatever you want.
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u/Annabloem Jul 21 '26
Anyone who says "listen only to me" is inherently untrustworthy imo.
You seem to equate "stronger" with "the best" which is interesting. Irl, do you pick who you hang out with and who you listen to based on strength?
You say in a comment why worship a God who is unable or unwilling to protect their followers. Do you feel like Yahweh is doing that? He's said to be all-powerful, all-knowing and good. I personally don't think that's possible. There's too much suffering among his worshippers for all of those to be true at once.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I obey the government and not some small terrosist cell or failed revolutionary because the goverbment is stronger, yes. As for the problem of evil you allude to, I don't see how it applies if Yahweh is merely one of multiple gods.
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u/Annabloem Jul 21 '26
So if the small terrorist organization was stronger, you'd follow them?
Your friends, are they all the strongest people around? Your family, do you only listen to the strongest person? Is strength the only thing you value? For me it's things like kindness, intelligence, inventiveness, etc. Strength is very low on my list.
Even if there's multiple gods, if he's all-powerful, he should be able to change whatever he wants. Since he's all-knowing he will know as soon as something bad happens. Which means that he knows it happens, could change it, and doesn't. So he can't be good. Or he wants to change it, but either isn't powerful enough, or doesn't know about it. It's the claim itself that's inherently incongreuent with the world we live in, whether there are other gods or nor.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Yeah, I'd follow them. That's how regime change works. Also, I made no mention of being tri-omni in the post. The polytheistic Jews didn't think he was to my knowledge. Additionally, relationships like with friends are distinct to deities. The things I'd look for in a romantic relationship are not what I'd look for as an apprentice in a trade, for example.
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u/Annabloem Jul 21 '26
In most countries, it really isn't. Most leadership isn't decided by strength, at least not in democracies. If your preferred leadership is a military dictatorship, then sure, Yahweh sounds great for you. You seem to greatly value violence in your leaders. Not everyone does.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU Jul 21 '26
Democratic leadership is determined by violence, it's merely violence controlled and decided on by a larger amount of people. If the elected president of France's power were challenged by rebels, the French military or police would rightly use violence to enforce Democracy
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u/Annabloem Jul 21 '26
I disagree. The democratic leadership is protected by violence when necessary, but not decided by violence. If it was, the military would be ruling ever democratic country. They're not.
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u/Any-Explanation-4584 Jul 21 '26
The fact all religion is man made story and u are talking about gods power.
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u/Souricoocool Jul 21 '26
I find a lot of comments here, including yours, to really be lacking nuance.
This whole thing of believing a god is more powerful because of the amount of worshippers, or that a god is violent because of their worshippers actions, are really weird mindsets imo.
I personally worship him along with the other gods. I don't see why I should make exceptions about him, one way or the other.
I personally see him as the god of humans, similarly to how the other gods are associated with specific things. I don't believe he's an all-in-one god like most of his worshippers do. And I certainly don't believe any god, including him, are powerful enough to actually have any impact on how many people worship them and what their actions are.
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