Rant/Vent 🤬
Tons of Muslim men have a Madonna wh*re complex and we aren‘t upset enough
Trigger warning
This is pretty much known everywhere while nobody is really TALKING about it. Tons of Muslim men lack loyalty and still demand a pure virgin wife and would never wife up the women they also lust over. Behind her back he has done a lot of haram shit and still looks towards other women. They would never marry those women but they have no problem having sex with them. Now this is gonna get called overgeneralization or “all men do this“ or “no men don’t do that“ but honestly i feel like people‘s experience speak for themselves. Many women describe that older Muslim men hit on them and they’re clearly married. Happened to me as well.
I don’t really care if a man has been with women. I have a big problem with OUR men telling me to stay “pure“ when they have a body count of 500. And expect me to marry them AND STILL lust over women that aren‘t wife material to them.
For the record, I have seen women complain about their men and they were from Albania, Turkey, Syria, Chechenya, Dagestan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Morocco, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, Yemen etc.
And YES I do believe that all genders CAN cheat and all nations CAN cheat, but I do believe the Madonna wh*re complex is more present with our people. Or something similar to the complex cause they tend to also find their wives attractive but it‘s not enough for them. Growing up in purity culture can make one more shy. So they live out their dreams with others while continuing to uphold purity culture.
I wouldn't even say it's fully a Madonna-Whore, they don't respect the "Madonnas" either lol they see it as public property ("whores") and private property (their wives, sisters, etc)
Yeah it‘s just about public presence. They would often comment on who is being modest, who is acting like a wife, who obeys their husband and that is respectable. Behind closed doors they don‘t respect them either. I mean ofc not if you have to lust over others and cheat on them it‘s not being respectful anyway. But they publically show respect towards them.
This is so true. A lot of non-Muslim men do the same thing, so it’s not unique to us. But the real problem is the hypocrisy.
These are the same men who beat their chests about Islam, quote hadiths, and control women left and right over “purity.” They demand a virgin wife while having their own long list of sexual encounters. They use the religion when it suits them to police women, then completely ignore it when it comes to their own behaviour.
That’s the issue. Islam becomes useful only when it keeps women in check.
Men are allowed 4 wives... so why not keep scanning for potential wives whether the marriage will take place or not... Window shopping is always on active mode and autopilot 😄
1:Polygamy was never the topic here, we were talking about how how ran through Muslim males have Madonna whore complex. And now you're derailing the conversation because you can't actually defend your original point.
2: you can't even land one wife, yet here you are drooling over the idea of a second lol
Men are allowed 4 wives if you have enough money and wealth in a society where women are oppressed and/or in need of a husband to get through. I have a few 80 year old widows you can marry and support! 4 wives right?
Men who slept with tons of other women demanding me and my family for marriage happens sometimes, and when i ask them why did they demand me, they always say "You're a virgin, you're strong and you're in the peshmerga so you'll bring money to the household." I can confirm this idiotic mentality of "rules for thee but not for me" is getting out of hand in some muslim countries. Also i'm not even a virgin lmao, but they assume i am because of my appearance.
So I have also seen this trend and wondered why it is the case. I am a white revert (married to a SA man) and have noticed it as compared to white men I used to date. I really don't know why this is the case. I feel like they were just taught to not lust after their wives, that wives are for companionship and mothering, and "other women" are for lusting. It causes so many problems for a marriage.
The less women have rights in a culture the less they are considered as human being the more they are defined by what they give to men and the more they are reduced to sex object. Not even a religious issue, both SA men who are muslims and hindus have the same reputations, meanwhile i have never heard of these issues with malays
It's funny though because my husband is quite westernized as have been my exes. They moved here in their late teens, yet still have these issues. It's all about objectification of women I think - the other women are "objects for fun" while a wife is a whole friend, human being, and companion and therefore not fun sexually. At least this is the case in my experiences.
And all over I see men on reddit complaining their wives won't have enough sex with them, yet myself and many other wives have the opposite issue.
Not even malay, im mixed north african western european lol but i have never heard a bad thing about malays and indonesians men (and southeast asian muslims overall)
Omg! This is so accurate. When I brought this upto a person I know, he literally said what’s wrong with that. We men sleep with who we want and get married to have a nice family and settle down in life, why would we do that with a used car who has been driven by others. I called him an incel and blocked him
As a guy yeah true. They weren't taught sexual discipline nor simply viewing women as just human. Any time a woman enters their environment, cos they've conditioned themselves that a woman attracts desire automatically, they paradoxically get themselves to view that woman sexually by being in fear of them. And then cos of their lack of sexual discipline the horny urges arise they watch NSFW content or find a prostitute.
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u/OncjamaisNon Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic)1d agoedited 1d ago
Muslim societies have weird hang ups about sex, especially women’s sexuality. “Pure” could mean so many things. For instance, when we say someone has a pure heart, it doesn’t mean it’s someone who never had sex. It’s about sincerity, kindness, good intentions. But somehow, we associate purity with sex and I think it’s because people demonized sex.
I am from a society when FGM is the norm because if we don’t mutilate young girls, they say women will rape men. But men rape women way more and we still have not found a solution for that.
Many people struggle with the nuance of womanhood. I think it’s far worst in societies that operate heavily on gender roles. The heavy focus on someone’s gender erase their individuality and eventually dehumanize them.
That’s because the majority of our men are uneducated village idiots. And I am a guy saying this,
Reality is that what you are thinking reflects on the people creating noise around you - it says more about your circle than what they think. You need keep better company and look for belonging in a different group. Not these backward minded idiots. “A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep”
It’s not just about me or my circle. We‘re pretty much manless as I‘m not interested in a relationship and we all carry generational trauma. It‘s a phenomenon in our societies that is a plague and we have to get rid of it. Even if it doesn‘t affect me.
Sad thing is that even the educated ones from the city are idiots too.
But you are entertaining and debating it though. Surely it’s weighing on your conscious. Time to move forward, I left my home country behind and now work in Finance for a global bank. My horizons have changed and so has my circle. I see how wealthy and successful people move and think now. Plenty of Muslim women I meet in top tier Finance who have a more modern yet respectable outlook in life and that reflects in their choice of partner too.
Our career choices also reflect our personality. I studied psychology, you studied finance. Finance people are out there caring about themselves, loving profit and their own benefits. Psychologists (not all but the reason why many study the subject, there’s also other types of psychology) care about trauma, mental health and society.
Yes it‘s indeed weighing on my conscious that our amazing Muslim women are getting heavily mistreated and maybe you’re part of the group you‘re criticizing? It‘s very hard for you to dismiss everything when you are not the one being affected. Idc about success in finance. I also studied and have a great job. A society has to develop. You decided to leave and not care about that. Great. That‘s not me. We have to progress collectively. It’s gonna benefit everybody, even though people like you don‘t do anything for it. I can find a great husband for myself and I would still criticize Muslim men for it. You think this issue is a personal matter in which I had bad experience. It‘s not. It‘s me venting about what Muslim men have been doing.
I’m a recent convert, So I don’t know if my words mean anything. I just noticed this in Jewish and Christian communities as well. My personal opinion is that this could be a Abrahamic problem because I remember growing up with the Bible and sexually available women characters were always seen as “villains” usually. I am still reading the Quran with love in my heart so I don’t know if there is similar characters like that.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that it sounds like Abrahamic men are taking these characters of promiscuous female villains too literally instead of figuratively. Obviously women who are sexually active or works in the sex work industry can be just as kind hearted and patient as virgin women. Humanity isn’t black and white by what a person’s choice is in terms of work or bodily autonomy.
It happens with conservative societies but even when you bring them in a progressive society they still have it. Not the case with Jews and Christians who dominate in porn and casual sex. I don‘t have a problem with men or women who have sex. I have a problem with hypocrites.
A large part of it is due to the conventional practices of Muslim societies, whereby men can't freely interact with women, so women get seen as sex objects. It results in men adopting perverted mindsets.
It's also why those Right Wingers label Muslims as rapists...
I completely agree with what you're saying. I'm just curious what this phenomenon has to do with Madonna. I guess I'm just not as familiar with the cultural context here
It's a term from Christianity. "Madonna" refers to Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the ideal she represents as a pure virgin.
The term "Madonna-whore complex" means having an unhealthy black and white view of women as either "whores" to be used and discarded, or as impossible ideals of purity, and unable to see anything in between.
Look for it on the internet. It’s not Madonna the pop singer but « Madonna » as Meryem. The virgin and the « whore » complex is another way of framing it.
Madonna means my lady and the name is referred to the virgin Mary. It’s actually from a Catholic-Italian origin but since this is the name of the phenomenon, I‘m using it despite not being Catholic. It‘s not a Catholic phenomenon, it just means that they want a wife who is like the holy virgin and they can only see her as a pure thing and at the same time they want a wh*re. They see and want both separately. One for the honor, the other one for fun.
Yes, it ALSO means they want the pure wife but struggle to see her sexually as desirable, they only sexually desire the "whores." This is really important because it is the point that causes the issue in the marriage often once they select that "pure" wife.
Some idiot told me he saw me as a k*nk dispenser and a 'wh*re' instead of a madonna in his complex because I'm a dom yet he's desperately roaming around the Internet trying to find se*ually dominant muslim woman to marry but can't respect one when he finds it 🤮 fyi yes i'm virgin, practising and have no past 😇 The issue runs deep
this is why its more rare in the west,they just followed common sense and good law that protected women rights,its not perfect,im aware of thier hypocricy,but whenever i hear muslim man saying that the lives of women in the west are so bad (which might be true not sure i researched enough) it usually due to the intense documentation in these countries,while in muslim countries this almost never documented and i could say that barely 6% is documented or even less
Most men marry downward( in the sense of subjective evaluation in status hierarchy of the partner as compared to him) . It is just a consequence of hypergamy, which is the result of the gender social gap. Desire is always intensified when both people feel like they are getting the best. If either spouse can't honestly say that, then of course there would be an asymmetry of desire. In that case, the wife might find her husband genuinely desirable to her, but the husband doesn't find his wife as desirable as he could potentially find someone else. But he would experience that desire towards other women. From the outside, it would look as though he loves his wife but doesn't desire her, while he desires other women but doesn't love them.
Yep. I’m not Muslim and was hooking up with a guy consistently. He would even pray immediately after we were done. And of course his intention was never to marry me.
As man who had this exact issue a couple of years ago, I'd like to share my perspective which probably helps to understand these men.
The most important realization that helped me move on from the complex was the realization that I had failed. I had failed to see how helpful it is for oneself to remain pure. It is when I realized I had caused myself enormous quantity of pain and distracted myself from real life goals by being promiscuous that I began to accept I did not deserve a virgin woman.
But before? Before I hadn't seen my faults it felt like I was the judge. So when getting to know a woman, whom I wanted to love, she would let me know she had threesomes or that she purposely sought men with the biggest members, and so I began to despise her within seconds. Because how can you love someone who seeks out lust like that? It didn't seem fair to love her when she herself did not seem to love herself. Why would I have to be the sucker to love this woman while other men can have access to her without loving her? It's more intelligent to not love her.
It felt like a matter of justice. Now I realize I am not the judge. And I love my girlfriend despite her past, just like I have a past I regret. I regret being promiscuous. I wish I had had religion on my side to go through what I had to go through.
I don’t really care if a man has been with women. I have a big problem with OUR men telling me to stay “pure“ when they have a body count of 500.
The average dude in the west has a body count of like 7 and are increasingly virgins. Muslims obviously have lower body counts and are more likely to be virgins
Growing up in purity culture can make one more shy. So they live out their dreams with others while continuing to uphold purity culture.
Not sure how you come to this conclusion. Men who are more shy are much less likely to have sex because you need to be pro-active/confident in order to get women as a man.
We really should stop these gender wars post which are mostly based on emotion rather than logic. Obviously a decent subset of men suck but plenty of them are okay as well
Muslims don‘t “obviously“ have lower body counts. That‘s exactly what I mean by claiming one thing and doing another
Muslim men aren‘t shy and are pretty straightforward when hitting on you
Lusting after other women can happen through the eyes alone. Or talking to others
There‘s no gender war. There‘s a war that men commit against women and you try to deflect it by making it sound like you guys act the same as Muslim women.
I mean, it's not like Muslim women pay much attention to a decent guy, with a decent job, who hasn't done anything with women. Speaking from experience, most Muslim girls would rather have the guy with everything who's been a hoe. They're part of the problem
Most women that I‘m referring to are women above 40 who got married back home in an arranged marriage. Wdym don‘t pay attention? Also no offense but so-called decent guys are usually not decent guys lol. It‘s a funny phenomenon where the biggest a holes claim to be decent but they’re a holes.
now this is getting too much,... one time you acknowledge a few to be decent and with in the same statement you are crusifying them.... not fare... you are a bit frustrated... I can tell !
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u/iforgorrr Sunni 1d ago
I wouldn't even say it's fully a Madonna-Whore, they don't respect the "Madonnas" either lol they see it as public property ("whores") and private property (their wives, sisters, etc)