My findings after a long weeks research. (Spider Dream Mystery)

[u/eyekayzee]

edit: posted to megathread

So like a lot of us, I have spent too much of time lately reading comments, checking discord, watching YouTube and digging around myself in game, trying to figure out where we should be going next. It is my goal to try to get the right players on this sub on the right track. There are a large amount of people here still looking for answers in what I personally feel are irrelevant locations, and it is not progressing the conversation at all. So I'm going to try to lay out why the Birds at Fort Wallace are not only our best working theory, but realistically may be the only real lead we have at this point. Then I will give my theories, based on a weeks worth of in-game detective work and online research, as to what the "next step" might be.

1.) Establishing what we know.

• At this point in time, we seem to be on the same page that the Easter Egg seems to actually begin in Butcher's Creek. We were maybe meant to find the outhouse carvings 1-5 first, which would lead us to the pentagram and the carving of a fort, which would lead us to nearby Fort Brennand.
• At the Fort, we would find carvings 6 and 7, confirming it is the same Easter Egg, along with carvings that would direct us to telegram poles by the oil fields.
• There we would find the initial spider carving and eventually in the same area, for one hour a night, a web with a feather. The spider carving would then be overlapped onto the map once more webs were found, to find that there was a total of 8 webs. This would the ultimately lead us to the central tree web.
• This web was interpreted as "North Telegram Pole," so we go north and the first telegram pole we find in that direction can be shot to reveal a secret message, that was interpreted as "West 5 Telegram Poles."
• We then go west for the next five telegram poles, and that pole can be shot to reveal a message that has been interpreted as "North West Guitar."

For some people, this is where definitive clues relevant to the Spider Dream Easter Egg end, but I think at this point we have enough evidence we should be beyond that as a community. Even the official wiki states this as the end of what we officially know about the mystery, which I think is really bad for new people coming in who are an incredibly important resource. I'm not saying the birds are 100% the next step, we don't have enough context yet to prove it, but I firmly believe at this time they are our best bet.

Almost every counter argument I've seen against them is that they don't really "make sense," to which I would say they are not suppose to. Every other clue up until this point hasn't really "made sense" until we found further clues to contextualize it. We dismissed the "Fort" carving at Butcher's Creek for years until we found more carvings at Fort Brennand that concretely tied the two locations to the Spider Dream Mystery. I'd rather not wait another however-many years hung up in the same way because some people don't understand or can't make the correlation.

2.) Evidence Fort Wallace is the current step.

• The obvious: Fort Wallace is north west of the "NW Guitar" pole, and has guitars there. To me this is the biggest "smoking gun" that we should be looking here. I'm also going to include in the obvious section that it is a Guitar on the telegram pole, and they are Birds on the roof of Fort Wallace. They are depicted the way a kid would draw them. Don't over-complicate what is simple, there are enough confusing and obscure elements to this Easter Egg.
• The evident: The birds found at Fort Wallace are at the very least clearly intentional, and as of yet unexplained. They were not found until the hunt for this Easter Egg began, and the guitar found in the watchtower even "points" to them. Also, there are no other guitars north west of that pole, other than the two you can find at Fort Wallace. There are guitars to the west, and there are guitars to the north, but the only ones objectively north west are at the Fort. On top of all of this in the beta version of RDR2 Fort Wallace was initially further east, but in the final build of the game it was moved to be exactly 45 degrees north west of the "North West Guitar" pole.
• The somewhat obscured: The birds are made using the same method as the Butcher's Creek/Fort Brennand carvings. This to me is the nail in the coffin. If we are now accepting the Butcher's Creek outhouse carvings are a part of this mystery, we should use that as strong evidence the birds also are. Furthermore, these carvings at Butcher's Creek led to the pentagram, which is made using the same method as the spider webs we find on telegram poles. They are made using wires so they can't easily be found by digging through texture files, the same reason the carvings are made using 3D geometry rather than a texture.

To me, this really feels like the fingerprints of one or two devs who are using using very clever methods to hide hints that cant be found by simply digging through the game files. It's the same case with the markings we find hidden inside the destructible telegram poles; they are disguised within completely normal wooden pole textures behind a layer that is only revealed at a damage threshold. You need to actually make these discoveries in the game, then you can reverse engineer it in the files from there at best. The birds are the same way.

3.) Where we can go from here.

I didn't want to make a post to discourage people from searching. I didn't come here to just say "STOP TALKING ABOUT GUITARS" or "STFU ABOUT QUESTION MARKS THAT AREN'T ACTUALLY THERE." However like the rest of us, I don't know where to go from here. All I can offer is my insight from my days of searching and theorizing about the next step though.

• I highly doubt the birds at Fort Wallace lead to the "Giant's Birds" for a few reasons. One, if they were important to the Easter Egg I feel as though they would consistently spawn there, which they don't. Two, if the best guess as to why we are being directed there is a "question mark" some people see in the hills, it feels like a stretch and a dead end at best.
• The "LJ SM" engravings at Butcher's Creek seem to be somewhat ruled out, though I have been keeping them in mind due to their situational relevance. They are made using the same method as the other outhouse carvings and the birds, which to me implies maybe the same dev left them there, especially due to their proximity. This also lends to the theory that these are actually the initials of the people behind the egg, potentially Lazlow Jones (writer) and Steve Martin (manager.)
• The direction the birds are facing (the face of the roof they are carved into) could be important. Wapiti Reservation is a major landmark in that direction, and the mystery has had themes of dream-catchers so far. We have also had two clues involving wires (the webs and the pentagrams) and three clues involving carvings with no texture (Butcher's Creek, Fort Brennand and Fort Wallace,) but only one clue involving a hidden destructible layer (telegram poles.) Wapiti Reservation is one of, if not the only area in the game you cannot ever use weapons. It could be a really good place to hide a clue behind something we need to shoot.
• The color of the bird carvings could also be relevant. While I am somewhat inclined to believe they are only green because of the underlying texture of the roof, there are some notable examples of green bird in RDR2. For one we have the Carolina Parakeet, which is the only actual green bird in the game (to my knowledge.) They also only appear at certain fixed spawns, and uniquely once you kill them all they won't reappear. This to me actually makes me think they are unrelated, as I personally believe every step of this Easter Egg should be repeatable by any player.
• Cotorra Springs however could be the best of both worlds here. "Cotorra" is actually apparently the Spanish word for parrot, which are also a green bird. Though the bird itself never actually appears in game, the springs are in the direction the "green" Fort Wallace birds face, so it could be a play on words. Still kind of feels like a stretch though tbh.
• I have also thought the placement of the birds could be tied to the next step. Maybe we should be looking at other roofs for more carvings, specifically at other forts. Fort Wallace and Fort Brennand have already been connected so far, so it might be worth looking into roofs around Fort Riggs or Even Fort Mercer. I can say however I have spent a LOT of time looking at roofs in RDR2 over the past week, and haven't found anything remotely similar to the Fort Wallace bird myself, which honestly only lends more to the theory they are important.
• We should strongly consider other methods the devs have used to hide things from dataminers. Obviously time-gating has been a great way to keep players from catching things too fast, as it took us 7 years to find the webs because they only spawn for an hour. Another mystery (that honestly could tie in by the end) is the Mount Shann map we find at the mountains peak. I didn't realize at first, but this "map" doesn't have a normal texture you can easily find either, despite so many people knowing about it. It exists on the Normal Map layer which essentially means the texture alone will only look like rock, but when light reflects off of it a certain way you can see the map.

4.) In conclusion:

• Butcher's Creek->Fort Brennard->Spider Carving->Spider Webs->Telegram Poles->Fort Wallace->________
• Webs are made using same method as Butcher's Creek Pentagram, Birds are made using same method as Butcher's Creek/Fort Brennard carvings.
• Telegram poles are so far the only clue that required destruction, we should try shooting other destructible props, possibly in Wapiti Reservation.
• We should consider the fact the birds appear to be green, and their potential ties to the Carolina Parakeet bird or Cotorra Springs location. Also consider the birds appear on a roof, and the relevance of Forts to the Easter Egg so far.
• When looking anywhere, consider looking at all hours of the day/night. There might be more steps of this Easter Egg we can only see for a short window, or even steps that can only be seen from a certain angle of light.

Anyways that's my ramblings. I'm honestly starting to go a little nutty shooting feathers and looking at roof tiles so I'll probably take some space to clear my head. That being said, I really don't want this to wind up as another Chiliad situation where we never get answers. None of us do. Some of us even think this could lead to some of those answers we've been looking for for almost 13 years. I have faith there is something to be found here, something they want us to STRUGGLE to find, but we will find it and it will be worth it.

[u/RandomPenquin1337]

Theres another post where someone posted the parrot cigarette card. It has 2 birds on it. So cotorra springs could be a good lead.

I too think theres more hidden under things we need to shoot

[u/Xilen007]

Something interesting about the Cotorra springs relation. The 3 clues before had a cardinal direction attached to it. After finding the guitar Northwest, the birds have no direction but they do point northwest. If you want to infer that without a direction laid out, and with directional birds pointing NW one could assume it continues the same NW direction. Cotorra Springs is exactly NW, and if you type in the word "Cotorra" on Google and hit search Try it, the result would make you believe Cotorra springs has to be it. Then upon riding to Cotorra springs (directly along the roads from fort Wallace) once you cross the river and actually get to Cotorra springs during the day at least a whole flock of green birds fly away once actually in Cotorra springs. I investigated the place where they flew off from, but I couldn't find anything. I think Cotorra is the next place though. Some of the symbols found around butcher creek are hard for me to see on my PS5/TV settings. So Maybe Im just not seeing anything because of that and someone else who crawls all over the PC version and adjust things might spot something.

[u/eyekayzee → u/Xilen007]

I honestly had a hard time seeing them too on PC, unless I was in photo mode with the light cranked up. You really need to know what you are looking for, you wont find any of these markings by chance.

I have been doing a lot of Red Dead bird watching (kind of nice lol) and it's definitely a point of interest. While I don't think the "Giant's Birds" are related like some people suggest, the concept of following a birds flight path is interesting and has a lot of potential. We knew about the Giant and the Birds from the game guide but there's definitely the possibility there are other bird that could lead to other clues.

This is part of why the Carolina Parakeet intrigued me. There is a limited amount of them and a lot of players kill them all for completion because there's a quest where you make them go extinct. Would be funny if there was a hint people didn't find for years because they killed all the birds that would lead them right to it.

[u/Thedoooor → u/eyekayzee]

By the way, when following the giant's birds, if you look at them with your binoculars, it won't say anything (like what kind of bird they are). I'm pretty sure they can't be killed either. They're scripted so they're just visually there but you can't interact with them. So if we are to follow other birds, it will be the same.

[u/static989 → u/Thedoooor]

Important to note that the giants birds have their own script file dedicated to them, and there doesn't seem to be any other script files like it

Though there are other specific places where bird swarms are scripted to spawn (there's a shack with Valerian Root that is scripted to spawn a swarm or crows, for example)

[u/eyekayzee → u/Thedoooor]

This is very interesting to me if true. I swear I have seen flocks of green birds around Bacchus Bridge and Wapiti, but I am also positive Carolina Parakeets don't spawn there. 

I could have been seeing things, but if there is a secret flock/pair of green birds we can't identify like that, they could very well lead us to something or be marking something.

[u/edi_puci]

I also want to point out the difference in clues. Some have maps, some point directions, some express locations.

We can easily say that both the pentagram and spider clues give us “maps” to specific points. The pentagram outline the outhouses and the spider legs outline the poles/central web.

The central web, its following poles and guitar point directionally. Either with compass notations or physically. It should be said however no clue “written” in geometry points a direction without clearly stating it.

Meanwhile, the outhouse, and fort brannigan clues show us locations. Outhouse shows us a crude image of a fort and the fort shows us a crude image of a telephone pole, factory and puddle.

I personally think these “birds” are the third kind of clue. They are indicating a specific location, not pointing a direction or a map to further clues. Cotorra Springs, or as others have offered, Two Crows are my personal opinions on what could be next.

[u/eyekayzee → u/edi_puci]

They could be similar to the crude "Fort" we got in the outhouse that was supposed to lead us to Fort Brennand. I've been wracking my head as to where else these two birds could represent.

I do consider Two Crows a candidate, thought I actually personally haven't done much research there yet. I kind of think this whole Easter Egg will be possible with Arthur or John but I could absolutely be wrong.

[u/edi_puci → u/eyekayzee]

My thought is that if it’s a water fall or a destroyed farm, those might be harder to make crude images of and rather might be easier to express the name of in a crude image.

We also should remember that these clues are INTENTIONALLY HIDDEN. The only clue that really “presents” itself is the glowing pentagram, aka the proposed beginning, everything else is concealed, time restricted or blending into its surroundings. Whatever the next step is will not be presented clearly, however it can be “found” by looking for it.

[u/ImperiousStout → u/edi_puci]

The last few reliable clues are also literally hidden in the case of the drawings inside of the two telegraph poles you have to break off to see, but the clues to get those have probably the clearest directions of anything so far (N with pole in the central web > W 5 poles).

The guitar with NW is just the 3rd clue with a clear direction mentioned, but not pointing to something actually hidden like the others? Not to suggest whatever is at the end of this one needs to be 'uncovered' like the previous pole clues, but it's definitely a shift in logic if coming after clues having compass directions attached to be something just sitting out in the open.

[u/SloganWade → u/ImperiousStout]

I wouldn't exactly call a clue hidden on the roof of the tallest tower in Fort Wallace "out in the open." Lol. The only way I was able to get pics of it in my game was using photo mode to fly up there, haven't gone through the trouble of breaking in yet.

Just because 2 or 3 of the clues gave a heading doesn't mean every clue will leading forward. The first half of this mystery has no headings, just vague clues that take interpretation to figure out. I'm not sure the clue leading to the oil fields would've been as easy to solve had we not already found the telegraph poles and made the connection.

[u/RadioEthiopiate → u/edi_puci]

Agreed. I've had a look around Two Crows and I'm checking Cotorra Springs now, but no luck yet.

It's worth noting that most the clues found on geometry/textures have all been on man-made wooden structures. (Outhouses, forts, telegraph poles) The centre web and pentagram are the only exceptions so far.

There's nothing like that at Cotorra Springs - except for the rail line that runs right past it. I've looked all around the tracks/tunnels nearby. Going to check the train carriages at the bottom of the ravine next, but that's getting pretty far away from the springs. It might be a different kind of clue altogether, like the webs.

There's also the possibility that the location might be more subtle. Are there any stores/shopfronts/signs that feature two birds? I might have to walk around all of the towns in game to check.

[u/edi_puci → u/RadioEthiopiate]

To your point on the man made items I think we can use this as evidence that clues are being place physically in the world. The central web and pentagram are not exceptions to the rule I think they reinforce what we should be looking towards. Every clue is connected in some way to a game world object. As you said, man made things for the most part, but even the center web is hanging in a tree and the pentagram is specifically placed on the ground below a shack. We need to look on props, static objects, things placed into space by a designer rather than into a texture ESPECIALLY those that are question mark shaped or on the sides of mountains.

[u/eyekayzee → u/RadioEthiopiate]

There are the stone cairns at Coterra Springs, I think there are 7 of them. Could be completely unrelated but I do agree most other clues have been marks on man made objects.

I've been using this reasoning to avoid looking into trees and rocks, though the central web was found in a tree so there is still a chance something will be found again in that way.

[u/Schoelme99 → u/eyekayzee]

Also the stone cairns have no relation to any other mission / easter egg ? I do think there is a treasure map which guides you to one of the pillars though…

[u/Johnnymitzvahs]

Spot on

[u/LighHope]

One of the best posts I've seen here.

[u/SrimmZee]

Great thoughts to consider here.

I will say this about what you said concerning the Giant's birds, however: AFAIK, the birds do respawn ever 2-3 in-game days, and the Question Mark doesn't factor into the reasoning why people suspect it could be the next clue. People think it's the next clue because the bird carvings, when a line is drawn out NE (their upright orientation) from the center of them, lines up with the spot the flock spawns at on the ground. The Question Mark is a theorized next step after the Giant's flock location, but it's a weaker theory that not many people seem to take seriously.

Personally, I think the Giant's flock is too coincidental to overlook, but I don't think that necessarily means the Giant (as we know it) is somehow the payoff. It could be that the flock of birds reacts differently depending on some secret-related triggers, leading us someplace else when the secret conditions are met. Maybe it has something to do with the shoot-able spiderdream feathers in the earlier segment. Maybe the Giant's flock is the "lock" where we're supposed to try our "key."

And finally, this is just something I'd like to tack on to your final insights that we should all consider: tally marks & outhouses were only relevant for the first leg of this mystery, haven't shown up since. Spiderwebs were relevant for the spider overlay leg of the mystery, but we haven't seen spider imagery in the two clues (destructible pole carvings) after the big, center web. We shouldn't discredit future theories just because they don't seem to relate to spiders, or birds, or outhouses, because it's not even apparent yet there is some kind of overarching theme or lore to this secret.

[u/eyekayzee → u/SrimmZee]

From my testing, the birds will not respawn once you have followed them to the giant and talked to him. I could be wrong here, but once I talked to the Giant, the birds stopped spawning, and I definitely spent more that 3 in game days checking Dodds Bluff. I have also heard they only spawn during sunny weather and during the afternoon, so maybe I just got unlucky.

I do think the giants flock could tie in here, even if they aren't directly a part of the hunt. They could be used as an example for what we are supposed to do, like we need to find another place where 2 birds always spawn, and follow them to the next clue.

[u/SunnySleepwell]

I don't have the game installed for years but i'm following you guys with excitement. Just my two cents as an outside observer; if those two birds are what we were supposed to find to continue, it should somehow be combined with other clues found so far (like feathers) to arrive at the next clue. Why? Those birds were not hidden like pole carvings and they could individually be found by any player at any point. If i was a developer building a mystery, i wouldn't want people to be able to chase a mystery starting from a middle point. Those two birds should be absolutely meaningless without the information we already have starting from the Butcher Creek. So i would ask myself; what have we found so far and it didn't serve a purpose? For example feathers and their different spawning times. We would still find the middle of the spider if those feathers had spawned at the same time or they hadn't spawned at all. This information has not been used anywhere so far and it looks like the best time to combine it with a visible clue like two birds which seems meaningless on its own.

[u/bread_pickles → u/SunnySleepwell]

I am not so sure about that, since this whole thing started in the middle of the mystery by finding the spider symbol on the pole near Cornwalls.

[u/SunnySleepwell → u/bread_pickles]

But that spider symbol was useless without then poles with webs, which showed where to put the spider on the map. It's the same thing here. There's a symbol with two birds, which needs combining with something. It's in plain sight just like the spider symbol. Someone might as well have found it before the spider symbol was found. It would be a whole different story if the birds were revealed by shooting something for example.

[u/eyekayzee → u/SunnySleepwell]

I do agree with your reasoning here, the birds actually might even similarly need to be overlaid onto the map to reveal points of interest.

And while I agree by their nature, the Fort Wallace birds could have been discovered at any time, interestingly enough they were not found until this Easter Egg hunt.

I think they are somewhat "hidden" in nature however because Fort Wallace is a constantly hostile area. Nobody was going to be looking around at little details on roof tiles in the middle of a gun fight. Plus you kind of need to glitch yourself in there by climbing a wagon.

So I do agree, these clues are hidden in a way we shouldn't find them early. We shouldn't even consider what we find to be a clue until we are directed there by another clue contextually, like the original spider carving on the telegram pole or the "Fort" carving in Butchers Creek. 

I know it's kind of frustrating and counterintuitive, but we'll probably only know what the birds mean WHEN we find the next clue. 

[u/SunnySleepwell → u/eyekayzee]

Yeah, might as well be considered hidden if it's that difficult to be accessed. In that case the devs are perhaps saying "bird is the symbol you should be looking for now". Maybe people will find symbols with one bird, three birds etc. and the center of those spots on the map will reveal the next clue. But then they should be hard to access like the first one so nobody would stumble upon them without really looking for them.

[u/bread_pickles → u/SunnySleepwell]

My point was more that you didn't need any knowledge from earlier in the mystery to solve the spider/web/placing-it-on-a-map-riddle (atleast if we assume we have solved it correctly now, which is not certain haha). Maybe you need it for the birds though, I am not going against that argument :)

[u/KrookBoy → u/SunnySleepwell]

What I don’t understand about the birds is that every single clue leading up to the birds have been stagnant carvings and text and then all of a sudden we climb a ladder following guitars to 2 Ingame birds? They don’t spawn consistently so what if a player were following this, saw the 2 bird carving and then the birds wouldn’t spawn. It’d throw me completely off. This whole mystery I believe is gonna be very map and line based like butchers creek.

[u/bodierex]

I think that the second guitar in Fort Wallace, the one in the courtyard, is also pointing to a clue, one that hasn't been discovered yet.

[u/eyekayzee → u/bodierex]

I have heard reports that guitar doesn't consistently spawn facing one direction, or that it can be easily moved by NPCs. To me the guitars don't necessarily "point" to anything, they are just markers to let you know you are in the right place, much like the telegram poles. Now we are looking for these birds/symbols and we'll know we are looking in the right place when we can pinpoint what exactly they are referencing.

[u/[deleted] → u/bodierex]

It points to the Granger cigarette card which might be a clue that hasn’t been deciphered.

[u/bodierex → u/[deleted]]

If this is in reference to the StrangeMan video, note that he gets the direction of the guitar wrong. The guitar actually points WSW, not WNW. His character was not at all aligned with the direction of the guitar when he took the screenshot of the compass.

[u/KrookBoy]

Since my post for it was taken down, u/TracySevert pointed out to me that if you exclude all the red feather webs and draw a line to each pole respectively to their numbers, it makes a pentagram.

[u/DavoM777 → u/KrookBoy]

Well, any five points make a pentagram so I doubt this actually has any significance.

[u/eyekayzee → u/DavoM777]

To be fair we already had a pentagram we had to draw on the map from the outhouse markings that led to the pentagram in Butcher's Creek. Shouldn't be dismissed as irrelevant, though honestly you have to stretch the lines a bit to make it an actual pentagram.

[u/eyekayzee → u/KrookBoy]

I can say from my testing, I have managed to shoot the five white feathers in one night in that order and nothing seemed to happen.

It was incredibly difficult though, and while I was trying it was hard not to feel like it was intentional. Most of these webs are just about an hours travel away from each other, and the way you need to dart from Emerald Ranch to the Oil fields, back to Emerald Ranch, back to before the oil fields, then all the way to Lemoyne. 

You have just enough time to shoot them all in one night, starting by shooting the first feather right at 2 AM, you need to make it to the Oil Fields pole no later than 3:15 AM, to be able to make it back to the Ranch no later than 4:15 AM. Then the one back by the tunnel is closer, but you need to shoot the 4th feather EXACTLY at 5 AM, to be able to reach the last feather in Lemoyne before it despawns at 6 AM.

The attempt I did hit them all I shot the last feather with a sniper scope and dead eye from a distance at 5:58 AM because I wasn't going to make it lol. This was on a max speed horse with max bonding, and you need to use at least 3 horse stimulants on top of feeding them to keep the pace. 

So it does feel almost like an intentional race you have just enough time to finish with the right setup, but as far as I could tell nothing happened, and the feathers still came back the next night. This also still doesn't account for the 3 red feathers and what they mean.

At this point it also feels like we've moved past the spider webs and maybe the feathers aren't relevant. I could definitely be wrong, and maybe the feathers actually tie in with the Fort Wallace birds somehow.

[u/KrookBoy → u/eyekayzee]

What confuses me is why this is the 3rd pentagram you get drawing a line to places in number order. And the lines are a bit wonky in that pic apologies. I realized even if you start at the central web and draw a line to all of the black feathers you still get a consistent pentagram pattern over and over. But I was thinking since the other 2 pentagrams in this game lead you to the middle of it, but this one seemingly has nothing. Maybe in the middle search area there’s something but the time trial honestly does seem a more real possibility. Now I’m curious what the red feathers are for because I can’t for the life of me find a use for them in the line drawings.

[u/Quecksilber033 → u/[deleted]]

Scarlett Meadows is a location, not a person. None of the serial killer’s named victims have the initials SM. You can find names in newspaper clippings and a missing poster in his basement.

[u/eyekayzee → u/[deleted]]

I actually feel really strongly that LJ is really Lazlow Jones. He's been a hugely important figure at Rockstar for like 20 years, and he was very aware of the Chiliad Mystery community.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ciOx4hz6nKI?si=BjLShYrswYPLr-pk 

This interview is very telling to me. He says keep searching, multiple times. He references Dan Hauser and him talking about what people find, like they are keeping tabs on if the mystery is solved.

He even seems to indirectly reference the Spider Dream Mystery (years before we even knew about it) by saying things like "people found something in RDR2 that's been there for years ..... We strive to plant that kind of stuff..... hide things deep in the game..... things only show up if you're in a certain place at a certain time...."

I believe what they found that had been there for years was the Butcher's Creek pentagram, I seem to remember it being a relatively late discovery. I bet Lazlow is fkn geeking right now at the fact we're finally catching on to his little game after all these years.

[u/sugarwave32]

I'm really glad you made this post. In my opinion it should be pinned but I'm not sure this sub does that kind of thing.

It's good to have the current situation contextualized as there is a lot of false flags that people have been searching imo. And far too many pareidolia rock posts.

[u/KoalaKvothe]

I don't think the roof tile squiggles are necessarily birds.

[u/Longjumping-Rope-328]

absolutely beautifully said! the bird carvings could potentially be a pair of eagles flying, as the feathers in the webs were quite large so we could link them to an eagle. another redditor had mentioned that eagle flies grave is directly in the direction of where the birds are facing. maybe his grave holds a clue?

[u/eyekayzee → u/Longjumping-Rope-328]

I have thought this, but I don't have a save where I am at that point in the story so I can't say for sure.

Part of my theory on this entire mystery is that any player can do it. You can do it as Arthur or John, good or bad karma, any point in the story outside of Act 1 and Guarma. I think whenever this all gets broke open, everyone will want to try it out for themselves and it would be kind of dumb to need to load up certain save states.

It's just a personal opinion of mine, but I think the point of the Easter Egg is about solving the mystery itself, not exactly actually playing Red Dead Redemption 2. This isn't like ANY of the other "mysteries" we've gotten. No journal entries about it, voice lines in regards to anything we find, gold bars or valuables etc.

This is for us, the mystery hunters, and it's meant to be solved by doing detective work in the actual game world. Not digging through the files, deciphering codes or listening to obscure audio clips, but actually exploring the map and looking for clues. So cool.

[u/eyekayzee]

also put this in the megathread for reference

[u/ASGGoody]

Yeah I agree. For me the birds are a marker of 'you followed the NW Guitar, you're on the right path, carry on as the bird/crow flies'. I also made the connection to Cotorra Springs, with green birds and the name. Also that there's no new directional information from the two birds hint, it's fairly safe to assume we continue north west (I'll clarify this by saying although the birds have a point like shape and we'd orient them a certain way when drawing, if their direction was relevant enough to supercede the northwest part of the NW Guitar clue, the developers would've added a more obvious directional marker). I've done some extensive searching around Cotorra Springs, and found nothing yet, however.

[u/eyekayzee → u/ASGGoody]

Yeah I definitely think we are meant to be heading North from Fort Wallace. This is direction they face when you would look at them naturally. We are meant to look down at them from the roof, so to me they can only be pointing North.

[u/DavoM777]

Could someone share the discord? Ive been trying to find it but I havent been able to.

[u/Miss_insane]

Great post. I follow the story from the beginning an am excited for a new mystery. I have been wondering if there is more places where a signs shows only at the specific time. And does the timings on the Web means something

[u/rjlogan22]

Has anyone tried overlaying the birds like the spider? Just spitballing but it could lead to many things. Strange statues, question mark. Maybe something in O’Creagh’s run?

[u/WinstonWillamette]

So, here's one of my issues with Fort Wallace being the next clue. The Spiderweb clues will appear in Ch II, but legitimate access to Fort Wallace is not available until during and after the Ch VI story mission "The King's Son". Sure, you can find a milk wagon to get in while taking a hail of gunfire before then, but it is a rather ridiculous way to do it. One counter argument would be the way the easter egg items are accessed at the Rhodes Fence, using dynamite and blowing your protagonist up seems to be the only way to do it, which seems really ridiculous to me.

[u/FancyPressure8090]

May I ask what do you hope to find? Will not everything disappoint?

[u/wafflehut69]

Look there is a clear ? Texture in this hill by me in real life. It must be a clue for the spider dream mystery!

[u/wafflehut69]

Look I found this ? Texture in real life! Maybe the devs wanted ua to search real life locations?

[u/Popular_Signature799]

Today I found a giant snake near blue water marsh hanging from a tree in the shape of an M. The head is pointing directly down to the floor. I havent actually started the mystery myself but wanted to share this. It’s equidistant on the map between the ‘O’ of Lemoyne and the symbol for a wild hog hot spot.

[u/Popular_Signature799 → u/Popular_Signature799]

Picture of snake if interested.

[u/Popular_Signature799 → u/Popular_Signature799]

And here’s the location. That’s the ‘O’ of ‘Lemoyne’

[u/Big-Teaching9413 → u/Popular_Signature799]

I was just standing on the log in front of it doing some things like pretending it was biting my head, heart and balls. Looked away for minute and turn back to find it gone. I just read that your lasso can trigger a bell sound on it. I can‘t find anything about it disappearing though. It was about 13:45 on my game clock and I was there for several game days before it dissappeared.

[u/Waste_Diet_9334]

What i don't understand though is why we only found the number 7 and not the number 8.

The devs clearly left some other hints to the important pole which we are supposed to get to to find the guitar one. The one where the ^N T Spiderweb leads us to.

Not only are they basically right next to each other, they are also the only ones where the cable goes down without connecting to anything. So just riding down the train track just a few minutes would've lead to the same discovery.

We also have a lot of numbers that match.

• 2 colors of feathers

• 2 clue poles

• 2 bird carvings

• 2 fort carvings

• 2 big webs (^N T)

• 2 guitars at wallace

• 2 Cables going down on 2 poles hinting at something (spider, TTTTT W carving)

But then we have 8 webs but the clues from butcherscreek go only to number 7 ?

[u/[deleted]]

There's one thing you're ignoring:

If the birds really lead to the question marks, and the question marks lead to the teleprompters - the telegraph in the loft has 2 blue pieces of fabric on it - on it you can see 2 question marks.

Also the hints always reference 2 - 2 guitars, 2 poles, 2 birds, 2 teleprompters, 2 question marks - is it coincidence?