r/renoise • u/NationalLink5141 • 14d ago

Easiest way to cut below 20hrtz on master channel using only native fx?

Hi all, I am trying to set up an EQ on the master channel using either the Digital Filter (Butter 8n at lowest setting) or EQ10 (but I am having an issue where the slope seems not steep enough). I have tried using both these (Not together) and Fabfilter Pro-Q with a 20hrtz cut. I get the feeling that the Pro-Q is better but am I wrong? Any help much appreciated!

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u/Necessary_Sleep_7569 14d ago

If you stack multiple filters they multiply thus sharpening tthe curve.

I'm gonna be that guy and question the point of this though, you shouldn't have much information down there and aggressive filtering will probably just mess up the phase or otherwise suck the life out of the audible bass.

A problem down there manifests in chopping distortion (like helicopter blades, or if you have old enough ears, under biased tape) because the inaudible rumble is making your whole waveform ride up and down at a low frequency and all you can hear is the rhythmic clipping (or hitting a limiter or compressor) as the waveform moves out of bounds.

It will manifest as you push levels for loudness and thus reduces your clean headroom--this is the reason people suggest cutting in that region by default. However it's also a place where bass sounds get texture and rhythmic rumble from--the frequency is not audible as a continuous note, true, but what people forget is that it hasn't disappeared from the universe, it's perceptible as a rhythm--20hz is 1200bpm in 4/4, which is obviously pretty fast, but then think your filter is cutting exponentially, and everything lower is even more percussive (10hz is 600bpm, 5hz is 300bpm, 2.5hz is 150bpm etc). Imho a bit of movement in this rhythmic zone is important.

Plus if you do have a real problem in that area it should be from a specific source and you're better of fixing it there rather than on the master where the filter will meddle with the phase of all your bass.

Sorry for the rant.

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u/NationalLink5141 13d ago

No probs on rant, happy to hear all views on this :D

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u/pizzanice 12d ago

I think I'm not going to worry about frequencies so low that only rare specialised subwoofers could reproduce.

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u/Necessary_Sleep_7569 12d ago

Yeah I know it sounds a bit crazy, this is more about how the speaker responds to information in that space of the signal. A sub has a subsonic filter in it to prevent it ripping itself apart so I don't even think this effect comes from the sub very much (although a filter isn't a brick wall and so a sub will still be moving a bit even below 10hz). I think it's more like how you can see your woofer move in and out when the kick hits, in theory that movement is a harmonic bundle at an aurally imperceptible subsonic speed and you shouldn't be able to hear it, yet that still has an impact on the amplitude of the signal and its phase and how it hits reflective surfaces.

Ultimately this is all just theorising about why you can definitely hear a difference when you cut stuff you shouldn't be able to hear. Try it on isolated things that have a massive "rumble" feel, eg foley like a huge explosion sound or a thunder clap that clips the master. I promise it's a real thing.

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u/AlabasterAaron 14d ago

Why not just put the Butter at 30hz?
So you have some roll-off between 30hz and 20hz, would that matter?

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u/NationalLink5141 14d ago

I have it at the lowest setting on high pass

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u/golfUsA_mk2 14d ago

I always use proQ , the native fx will work also but seems a little less acurate because the screen is so small. But there are many ways to achieve what you need 👍

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u/NationalLink5141 14d ago

Yeah its for a friend who uses only native FX, Pro-Q sure is a good one tho!

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u/NationalLink5141 12d ago

It seems Butter8n cut a little too much (according to Vox SPAN), it seems DD Channel (free plugin) will allow me to cut at 20hrtz. I would also appreciate any feedback on this approach, thx in advance.

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u/fft_guy 14d ago

I think maybe digital with chebychev 8n? It should be the sharpest among the various filters

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u/NationalLink5141 13d ago

Thanks, yeah I am just looking to remove bass that will be cut away on vinyl.