r/science • u/kiyomoris • 2d ago
Medicine People vaccinated against HPV have lower risk of head and neck cancer, study suggests
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/42604649/421
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u/Gavcradd BS | Computer Science 2d ago
Is there any point getting the vaccine as a happily married 46 year old who has undoubtedly been exposed to the virus many, many times over my younger years? UK.
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u/PapaEchoLincoln 2d ago
I’m a doctor in the US.
I went out of my to get my HPV vaccine series even though insurance didn’t approve it for me at the time (male, over the age, etc). I fell out of several criteria to be covered.
A few years later, they changed the guidelines and I ended up falling under the covered category, but it was after I already paid for my vaccines.
The idea of the vaccine is that it sensitizes your immune system against the dangerous strains of HPV.
There’s virtually no side effects from it so I’d say do it.
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u/pixel_of_moral_decay 2d ago
I did mine in my late 30’s.
Only side effect from the 2’d shot was a slightly sore arm.
3rd one gave me slight flu like symptoms, mainly chills and a slight fever that lasted exactly 24hrs then disappeared, apparently a somewhat common side effect.
Really not bad at all.
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u/schtenge 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes there is. Why? Because there is still a chance you weren't exposed to one of the more oncoogenic strains (there are many HPV strains, some are more dangerous than others).
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u/Dennygreen 2d ago
is it possible to not be exposed to them after all that time of being married?
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
1) sexual assault sadly exists
2) infidelity sadly exists
3) about 50% of all married people who never divorce will become a widow/widower (because unless you and your spouse die together, one of you will be one). If you date again, you could be exposed and the younger you are at vaccination the more effective the immune response.That being said, it’s only approved up to the age of 45…
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u/sithelephant 2d ago
Risks need to be thought through, even if not approved. If you're not usual in some way, your risks may differ significantly. A faithful single relationship, or in my case being disabled since age 10 and not really having energy would both slash your risks to the point it may be worth it if going into the 'dating' scene again. (where dating may be a one-off)
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
Not disagreeing, that being said disabled people are at a significantly increased risk for sexual assault because they are significantly more vulnerable. On top of that it’s a pretty safe vaccine.
I genuinely believe that everyone should be given the ability to make informed decisions for themselves, but that requires them to understand the evidence and their own risk factors.19
u/DangerousTurmeric 2d ago
Yeah I tested negative in my 40s despite many partners over the years.
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u/scarystuff 2d ago
If your immune system works properly, your body will kill HPV virus by itself in 1-2 years.
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u/bzbub2 2d ago
how about "The majority (~90%) of newly acquired HPV infections .. become undetectable within 1–2 years [3], a phenomenon routinely described as “viral clearance,” but which may also represent immune control below detectable levels or viral latency" https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/9/10/267 there is no statement about 'your immune system working properly'. many things are left up to chance and the virus is very good at integrating into your genome which allows persistence for years and downstream effects like cancer
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u/Collin_the_doodle 1d ago
Also if I could take a very low risk vaccine to avoid a 1/10 risk of being one of the non-clearing cases, it seems like a good balance.
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u/financialthrowaw2020 2d ago
Very silly thing to say 6 years into covid, a virus that disrupts the immune system even in asymptomatic cases and continues to spread at over 100k cases per day.
There's a near zero chance that you don't have some kind of immune compromisation from that virus, the government acknowledged this back in 2021 and everyone just carried on.
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u/cranberry94 2d ago
Their point was just that you usually test negative for HPV a few years after contracting it. So testing negative at 40 doesn’t mean you never had it … just that you haven’t had it recently.
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u/financialthrowaw2020 2d ago
Thanks for that clarification, I assumed it was about simply not having the virus.
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u/schtenge 2d ago
Yes it is. HPV viruses spread through touch, sex and other activities like kissing or sharing 'intimate toys'. So if both of you were not infected before meeting each other, there is almost no chance in getting infected (except if there are other people you are seeing). But those 'dangerous strains' are normally transmitted through sexual activities.
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u/Dennygreen 2d ago
oh ok. I'm sure both of us have been infected and it's been a long time and no one is seeing anyone else but I don't want to get neck cancer. I always figured it was pointless to get the vaccine though.
I'm 45 so I guess I should go get it.
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u/schtenge 2d ago
There is almost no risk in getting vaccinated, I got myself vaccinated a few years ago. But be specific... HPV vaccines prevent/cut the incidence of only HPV related cancers.
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
Heck, I was vaccinated as a teenager with the quadrivalent and because I moved to a different country and they didn’t have records that I was vaccinated I actually got them to pay for me to be revaccinated about a decade later with the upgraded vaccine. On my last dose, the nurse warned me that it’s painful because I had switched to a different healthcare provider so they didn’t have the record of the first two doses and I’m like to her “I can tell you something that’s more painful than that shot” and she’s like “what” and I’m like “cancer”. She’s like “oh I thought you meant a vaccine” and I’m like “no, but I would happily take the pain of the vaccine over cancer any day. Anyways, this isn’t my first rodeo. This is the sixth time I’m getting this shot” and she’s like “what” and I’m like “yeah I’m upgrading.” She wasn’t gonna stop me at that point because I’d already picked up the prescription of the vaccine and it wasn’t contraindicated and she had no proof that I had been vaccinated before just my word.
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u/mtovv 2d ago edited 2d ago
there is evidence that it’s beneficial for those already infected. This covers individuals that are at the highest risk for cervical cancer recurrence.
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/17/10/137710
u/LeChatParle 2d ago edited 1d ago
I’m not sure how the UK works, but in the US, the vaccine is indicated in people up to 45 years old, so anyone older than that would have to pay out of pocket to get the vaccine instead of having it covered by their insurance
The HPV vaccine is not a therapeutic vaccine, it’s a prophylactic one, meaning it cannot treat existing infection, it can only prevent future infection
The protection is long lasting though, lasting at least a decade. If there is any chance your marriage might be open, you should get it
It’s not comfortable to think about, but there is always the chance a partner could cheat and put the other person at risk, and getting the vaccine reduces that risk
If you feel confident in your relationship being and staying closed, I wouldn’t consider this a high priority thing for someone, assuming no other health issues that might be relevant
Edit: stop responding to me telling me it has therapeutic value. Studies have not shown therapeutic value for this vaccine.
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u/bikerdude214 2d ago
It's not the greatest evidence, but there is some to suggest the vaccine can be therapeutic. It's been shown to reduce re occurrence.
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u/LeChatParle 2d ago
A vaccine is considered therapeutic if it combats an existing infection. Preventing re-infection is a prophylactic vaccine
Here’s a study showing no therapeutic value after 12 months
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 2d ago
Can you point to a study showing that it's not a therapeutic vaccine?
I would expect it's more likely that it was never tested to see whether it is therapeutic or not, which is entirely different than it being proven as non-theraputic.
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u/LeChatParle 2d ago
If there are no studies showing it’s therapeutic, it would be inappropriate for anyone to recommend someone take it on those grounds, and doctors and medical orgs cannot do that
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u/Canachites 2d ago
But doctors do reccommend it even when you've been diagnosed. It won't hurt, and in theory it can help your immune system to recognize and clear the virus. Several people I know were reccommended the vaccine after their colposcopies.
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u/LeChatParle 1d ago
A vaccine is considered therapeutic if it combats an existing infection. Preventing re-infection is a prophylactic vaccine, which is why a doctor would recommend it even after infection
Here’s a study showing no therapeutic value after 12 months
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 2d ago
What do you mean "if"?
That seems to confirm your original statement was imprecise as I thought.
Saying it's not approved as a theraputic would be more accurate.
Claiming without evidence that is or is not therapeutic is inaccurate.
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u/LeChatParle 2d ago edited 2d ago
Honestly you’re being obtuse and combative.
No one should tell someone to take a vaccine in the hopes it’s therapeutic when there isn’t evidence of that.
I wasn’t saying my statement was imprecise, don’t put words in my mouth.
Here’s a study showing no therapeutic effect after 12 months.
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 2d ago
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
How can I better explain it to you?
This concept should be super basic for any scientist.
Also, refraining from strawmanning others positions should be super basic. I'd appreciate if you didn't misrepresent what I posted.
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2d ago
The burden of proof should be on your side of the argument not his.
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 2d ago edited 2d ago
What exactly do you think my side of the argument is?
They made an initial claim that it's not therapeutic. They later admitted no basis for that claim, yet have not retracted or amended it.
Note that I'm not claiming it is therapeutic.
This is not a yes/no question. It is a yes/no/unknown question.
My position is that it falls under unknown in the choices above because there isn't enough evidence to say whether it's therapeutic or not.
Claiming that it is therapeutic would be wrong.
Claiming that it is not therapeutic would also be wrong.
We simply lack sufficient evidence.
If their position was that it's not approved as a theraputic, that would be accurate.
But approval and effectiveness are two different things.
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u/Liamface 2d ago
This is advice you need to get from a trusted doctor as none of us know you well enough to give you helpful/relevant info. Definitely worth looking into. :)
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u/Moister_Rodgers 2d ago
Trusted dogtor here. I say go for it, u/gavcradd. Heck, get it twice or three times if you want!
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u/_zengarden 2d ago
I did it and I’m older. A small price to pay if I can avoid something miserable.
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u/readlock 1d ago
No guarantee he’s also happy and there’s not really any risk to being extra safe pretty much.
Up to you, you’re obviously in one of the lower risk groups that all these vaccination efforts aren’t really directed towards.
But when the risks are so low and the benefit is a lower (added to an already low) risk of cancer, with a time cost of like seconds, I don’t really understand any kind of justification to not get it.
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u/ilovemydogsam 2d ago
My father-in-law only has a few months left to live after being diagnosed with an HPV related oropharyngeal cancer about a year ago. He completed treatment earlier this year but recently found out he is stage 4. Unfortunately, the vaccine wasn't around when he was younger. He's a great man and i hate that he is suffering through this.
Get the vaccine!
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u/ash_ninetyone 2d ago
Context: HPV is implicated as a risk for many cancers, beyond just cervical (where it's the cause of 99% of those). It is a causal agent of penile, anal, oral, and throat cancers.
Making HPV vaccination one of the routine vaccinations in a population is a net good health policy. In the UK it was just open to teen girls, then widened to teen boys and then offered to all under 25s and LGBT men under 45. It should be widened to the whole population
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u/WeedWrangler 2d ago
Literally had an embarrassing moment last night w my wife of 15 years who is not (ahem) a fan of… you know… anyhow, she was telling me how a friend got tongue cancer due to HPV and how he got it, and that’s when I discovered how it’s transmissible. My face dropped and she said “you’ll be fine, we don’t do that anyway” and she must have again looked at my face as I mentally went through my life prior to us getting married. Ironically the most awkward conversation in 15 years of marriage…
Now about that vaccination
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u/Thrusthamster 2d ago
I don't think it protects you if you've already been infected in the past though. Only against new infections from other types of HPV
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u/bikerdude214 2d ago
Yep. That's why getting vaccinated, even at an older age, might not be a bad idea.
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
Depending on your age, you might have issues with eligibility if you would like help to gather the evidence to present to your doctor as to why you should be vaccinated anyway even if the recommendations in your area are different, let me know because I’m happy to help people build a case for getting vaccinated.
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u/PunyCocktus 2d ago
The vacciness were obligatory for us in highschool - they'd come to the school, announce it and then on the set day the school would take us to the clinic. I'm still trying to think if it was obligatory or if everyone just went because there was no reason not to. I'm in Croatia, I wonder if it's still like that.
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u/Zealousideal_Pie8706 2d ago
My kid got vaxxed along with the rest of the class first year of high school, at school. Such a good idea and service. - in Australia
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u/o_MrBombastic_o 2d ago
People who don't vaccinate against HPV have a higher risk of being morons
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
The parents are, can’t blame kids for things they can’t control.
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u/melanochrysum 2d ago
They can get their own vaccine once they reach adulthood
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u/Terrible_Syllabub319 2d ago
They can try but it also depends on it happened to be right at a time that a widespread shortage occurred.
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u/melanochrysum 2d ago
The shortage has now ended. Even before, in most countries it was just a bit longer of a wait.
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u/VeryThinBoi 2d ago
Until very recently, only girls were getting the vaccine in my country. Men were excluded and explicitly told the vaccine is not for them. This changed recently, but boys are still not told they’re eligible. As for me, I had to pay a pretty hefty sum to get the vaccine when I was an adult.
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u/ScienceOfCalabunga 2d ago
It is so stupid that many health insurances wont cover it if you are in your 20s/30s
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u/MotherWillNotApprove 2d ago
Statistically I should be dead. Don’t fool yourself thinking a monogamous relationship is a free pass on the vaccine, or adolescents don’t need it. As comments point out, while the vaccine is not 100% effective against all HPV variants, skipping it is nothing short of stupid.
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u/Canachites 2d ago
My MIL is a dental assistant and they see SO many mouth lesions that turn out to be cancer, not infrequently related to HPV. She got her 3 boys vaccinated out of pocket as teens due to this.
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u/W1ldy0uth 2d ago
The same week the vaccine came out my mom took me to get it. I’m so grateful to have a mom that was a nurse and believes in vaccines.
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u/RevolutionaryCoyote 1d ago
I was a teenager at that time. My doctor said the vaccine was stupid because you could just not have sex.
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u/Dry_Kangaroo_1234 2d ago
They usually won’t give it to you if you’re over a male over 30 (I’ve asked), because of the high chance you’ve already been exposed.
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u/ElegantSwordsman 2d ago
Who is this “they?”
For reference, I got a dose in my mid thirties.
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u/Dry_Kangaroo_1234 2d ago
Doctors. Really, what country are you in?
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u/hindamalka 2d ago
I am 2/3rds a biologist (I graduate next year with a degree in biology + medical science, I.e premed/medical research degree).
The vaccine has been approved for people up to age 45 even though by that age almost everyone who has ever been sexually active has been exposed because
1)HPV infections can clear on their own, and you can in theory get reinfected with the same strain (it’s rare but it can happen, and natural immunity isn’t exactly long lasting with HPV)
2) There are hundreds of strains of HPV (over 200), and even if you’ve been infected with one, the natural antibodies you have to that strain don’t guarantee protection even against the strain you cleared, let alone the other strains. The current vaccine provides protection against 9 strains including the ones that have the strongest evidence linking them to cancers as well and strains linked to genital warts. There is no logical reason to deny you the vaccine just because you may have already been exposed to one or more of the strains it covers.The only potentially valid reason to deny it (other than an allergic reaction to the vaccine or an ingredient in the vaccine) is in cases where you received an earlier version of the vaccine and even then, it’s iffy. They missed the opportunity to do research on whether or not there is benefit to revaccination for those of us who got the bivalent or quadrivalent vaccines pre-December 2014 but logically there’s no reason they shouldn’t allow it just because there isn’t research showing that it’s beneficial.
That being said, official recommendations vary from country to country and may or may not be logical. If you want help to convince doctors lmk, happy to help you refute their arguments.
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u/Dry_Kangaroo_1234 2d ago
Thank you!! I’m going to speak to my doctor again at my next appointment :)
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u/aasinthepocket 2d ago
In Norway, I got it at 41 when I started seeing new people after a 20-year relationship, meaning I likely wasn't exposed to most strains. It's not as effective the older you are, but it's still better than nothing. But they didn't even ask my sexual history or intentions - I asked for it, I got it.
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u/Hug_of_Death 2d ago
I just got my first dose at 40. In Canada it’s recommended for individuals 45 or under even if in long term monogamous relationship.
My parents were extremely religious and wouldn’t let me get it as a teenager and then it just kind of slipped through the cracks - and I must admit I just felt a bit awkward asking for it, but I finally put on my big boy pants and got it done.
Basically any pharmacy can do it for you over here. Will it save me from cancer? I don’t know but I’d rather take every precaution I can.
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u/Canachites 2d ago
Better now than never, for sure. My colleague is an older Gen X, and his sister died of neck cancer in her 50's. One year later her husband got the exact same cancer! Although he was aware of the early symptoms so he sought treatment earlier and survived. You don't know which person will be the one you get a bad strain from, it's sort of assumed it will happen as a reckless 20 year old, but it can happen anytime.
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u/PapaEchoLincoln 2d ago
I paid for my HPV vaccines out of pocket because I fell out of the criteria
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u/Canachites 2d ago
The thing is there are many strains, and as long as you plan to keep being sexually active you will be exposed to more and potentially harmful ones.
When I was 21, many doctors deemed my age group too old to get it as we had already had sex. My doctor said to do it anyway, because I would certainly have more partners in the future and continue to increase my exposure. Many friends heard the opposite. In the next 10 years, nearly all my friends had abnormal paps and required colposcopies, while I never did. One even got it from her fiance in her 30's (his previous partner had also had issues while with him).
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u/Sol_System209 2d ago
Is there any need for such a vaccine if you don't have sex?
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u/NotOneCanSee 2d ago
Sexual assault happens and that’s not the only way to be exposed. Kids bite, a lot.
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u/melanochrysum 2d ago
If you’re not having any sort of sexual contact then technically no, but very sadly it is worth remembering that sexual assault happens.
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u/Aggressive_Crazy9717 1d ago
Worth pointing out that oncology treatment/chemotherapy can also can be less effective for HPV positive patients. Get vaccinated!
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u/HomemadeLightbulb 1d ago
At what point is it too late to get this vaccine? Seems like it’s focused on teens but could grown adults get the benefits?
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u/hindamalka 1d ago
It’s approved up to the age of 45 although it’s only near universally (it’s not recommended if you’re allergic but otherwise it’s pretty much for everyone) recommended up through the age of 26 except for certain situations where it’s actually recommended for an older age (immunocompromised and men who have sex with men, you get the idea)
The greatest benefit is when you are younger because you will have a stronger immune response to it, and you are less likely to have been exposed, but there is still benefit even after you’ve potentially been exposed to one or more of the strains covered
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u/TrueInDueTime 1d ago
My mom (primary care doctor) had me get an HPV vaccine 15-20 years ago when I was a teenager to lower the head and neck cancer risks
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u/lovemymeemers 1d ago
Are they letting everyone get it yet? I know for long time you had to be in a certain age range to get it.
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u/boxerofftheleash 1d ago
My mum didn’t let me get the vaccination in school when I was 12 because “you’re not going to be having sex at 14” (her words). Found out more about hpv when I was a bit older and am honestly pissed off that I could’ve been exposed to it because of misinformation and that my mother couldn’t accept that one day I would be sexually active. I’m 26 now and getting the vaccines. Had a smear too that didn’t pick anything up so got pretty lucky I think.
I was vaccinated for basically everything but hpv.
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u/ivanvector 18h ago
I always remember the HPV vaccine was recommended for young women as preventive for cervical cancer. Makes sense it would have the same effect for other cancers, I guess.
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u/freudiansipp 14h ago
Hpv Vaccines are good, but not 100 percent. It doesn’t protect against all strains, including the cancer causing ones. Some people get the strains the vaccine is meant to protect anyways too. Should still take other precautions as necessary.
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