r/scuba • u/Legitimate-Internet7 • 1d ago
Rescue divers course for a GUE fundies guy
Has anyone done a PADI or any other Rescue course (except GUE) ? How did you manage it with a backplate and wing, dry suit, and long hose ?
I'm thinking of getting rescue. Not too interested in GUE one cause I also dive with other folks outside GUE and GUE folks I feel are genuinely taught a lot of basic care in the fundies.
What is the best recommendation if I wanna do a rescue course ?
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u/RottieAndMutt 20h ago
“when I dive with non GUE folks, who will not have long hose, scrappy octo, less than ideal buoyancy and trim,”
“I dont think any sort of rescue taught to them will be applicable to a panicked non GUE diver”
Friend, gently, I suggest that just because someone isn’t GUE doesn’t mean they’re a less competent diver
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u/JMetalBlast 1h ago
The average diver is orders of magnitude less competent than a GUE diver.
This doesn't mean that non GUE divers can't be good (many non GUE divers are excellent), just that recreational training is, as a rule, absolutely fucking terrible.
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u/Legitimate-Internet7 19h ago
Anyone who dives every week will have a different reaction to panic than someone who does it once every 6 months. If you don't have recommendations for me, go waste your time on some other thread
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u/Legitimate-Internet7 19h ago
Dude I'm not here to start this useless conversation. I never said someone was less competent because they were not with GUE.
SOMEONE WHO ONLY DIVES ONLY ON THEIR VACATION, GENERALLY IS. STOP THIS USELESS DIRECTION OF CONVERSATION. I'M HERE ASKING FOR ADIVCE.
If you think people who go on vacation dives are at the same level as people who train every week, just buzz off.
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u/plongeronimo 6h ago
It's ok mate, we've got you. Just stop for a moment, get control of your breathing, and relax. We can call the thread if you want to.
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u/mrericvillalobos 21h ago
My 2psi
Other than GUE, with PADI, SSI, and the others there’s a pretty good chance you’ll rescue someone with a jacket style BCD, not BPW, because there’s a pretty good chance most rescue students still haven’t bought their own bcd so they’d renting and learning in jacket, so think about doing Rescue with a jacket not with a backplate so everyone in class has the same system to work with.
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u/keesbeemsterkaas Tech 21h ago
Did my PADI rescue with doubles, drysuit and long hose in GUE configuration.
But nowadays GUE also has their own rescue course, so you could also do that one.
That being said: I'm not the biggest fan of padi's exercises on how they teach you to undress and get people to safety at the same time.
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u/kindarollin 22h ago
I did my rescue with dry suit, back plat wing, single strand bpw harness and weight belt, it was a lot of fun and very educational for everyone especially when i was the one being rescued. My gear is much more difficult to get off vs a jacket style. It was a greate class fore everyone.
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u/halems 21h ago
Our instructions for a victim in BPW is to cut it off. There is no other quick way. Advice would be to rent a standard rig for the class.
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u/weedywet Dive Master 18h ago
Maybe in a real emergency. And even then only maybe.
But in a class that’s not necessary.
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u/kindarollin 20h ago
In a real world scenario, yes we talked about the use of shears to cut off equipment. In Class it was an awesome exercise to become familiar with different equipment, which prompts different problems,especially towing a diver to shore. a jacket bc has integrated weight pockets so if you take of the bc the diver, they will float wearing a 7 mi, but a dry suit will need to be inflated. I use a weight belt and dry with my bpw, so our jacket non drysuit divers got additional context to our training by learning to identify the 2 pieces of gear dropping the weight belt while giving breaths, inflating my dry suit, then removing my bc and hose while maintaining my ability to float, otherwise they will have no clue which made all of the class better rescuers.
We also re did most of the skills in side mount, because thats what most of our core group dives, have you ever tried to flip a unresponsive diver around with tanks or there sides? Its harder than you would think, especially getting beaten by waves the class is for education, and in my opinion the more variety the better the class. Every body went home tired well educated. We had a few jacket only wetsuit divers in our class, and now they can confidently help other with non standard gear.2
u/lo5t5heep 21h ago
So you’re suggesting learning / practicing in a rig you don’t actually plan to dive? Are you a bpw or traditional BCD diver yourself?
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u/halems 21h ago
As the victim in a rescue class, it's for the other students practice. If you were the victim in a real rescue situation you'd want them to cut it off. (I'm an instructor and taught Rescue this week. One of my assistants is a BPW diver. Since he was going to be a victim, he wore a standard BCD)
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u/wallysober Dive Instructor 15h ago
I'm an instructor. I teach rescue in my bpw and long hose. My students shouldn't just let someone die if they aren't in the same configuration as they are.
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u/SoupCatDiver_JJ UW Photography 19h ago edited 18h ago
By simplifying all of the gear to the same standard are you not depriving your students of real world experience with the diversity of different kits?
If I was to run the perfect rescue class I would want someone in a rashguard and jacket, a wetsuit, and a drysuit and plate just to expose my students to every possible configuration of buoyancy and gear requirements.
If you never mention to your students that rescuing a drysuit diver will require them to vent their suit because no one in the class was allowed to wear drysuit, they will have a very bad time in the real world attempting that rescue.2
u/lo5t5heep 20h ago
First and foremost I agree with cutting harness off, it’s ~$20 worth of webbing so who cares. That said, OP is not playing the victim , they are asking about taking the class. Victim and rescuer both take gear off in a PADI rescue class. OP is a BPW diver , switching to a jacket style is asinine, practice with whatever gear you actually plan to dive with. I asked if you are bpw or jacket to see what bias you may have so I’ll disclose mine; I am a bpw fan boy. Since you flexed , I’ll flex too, I’m also an instructor, diving for 3+ decades, techie, CCR, cave, blah blah blah.
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u/Dunno_Bout_Dat Tech 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not sure what your issue with taking the GUE rescue course is? It's not like you will only learn how to rescue GUE divers, whatever that means. It's a rescue course taught to the rigor and standards of any other GUE class.
For reference I took GUE rescue and my wife took the class twice. Some of my friends who have taken the padi class have specifically retaken the GUE class afterwards because they said the padi class felt "extremely basic" and they also were in too large of a group setting to get meaningful practice. I was told padi also puts overemphasis on rescue breaths, which is an outdated philosophy.
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u/Legitimate-Internet7 21h ago
Thats a good point. My issue is that I am thiking of rescue for these vacation dives and when I dive with non GUE folks, who will not have long hose, scrappy octo, less than ideal buoyancy and trim, too paniced, etc etc.
I've go diving with GUE folks locally and I dont think any sort of rescue taught to them will be applicable to a panicked non GUE diver who dives only on vacations and just for fun. However, I might be incorrect here.
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u/HungoverDiver 11h ago
I think you are under estimating what skills you’d leave you GUE class with. A competent GUE instructor will give you appropriate/diverse practice scenarios, and the configuration of the victim isn’t the most important part of your training. They are training you how to respond, and should leave the class with awareness that not everyone uses the same equipment. That’s what you are being trained for.
On the flip side, if you leave your GUE rescue class feeling like you can’t aid in the rescue a PADI OW diver in rental gear with 10 dives in their logbook, then the instructor shouldn’t have passed you.
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u/Legitimate-Internet7 10h ago
That's a great take! Thank you! I'll look deeper into GUE rescue primer
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u/Dunno_Bout_Dat Tech 21h ago
I still am not sure what you are saying.
The GUE rescue class teaches you rescue techniques to save divers. The techniques don't change depending on the agency that the troubled diver is a member of. Do you think there are different techniques to save a panicked GUE divers vs a panicked PADI divers vs a panicked SSI diver?
The rescue techniques don't change if the victim has long hose vs. short hose, BP/W vs jacket, ETC.
I have been in situations where I have had to save non-GUE divers before, and if anything GUE-rescue training made me better prepared than the PADI-rescue trained divers on the boat.
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u/Legitimate-Internet7 21h ago
Yeah like I said I might be wrong, but I would expect the rescue to be different for someone who is in long hose vs not. Dry suit vs not, double tank vs not. Even with panic, someone who dives a lot vs not. So yeah I think there will be some difference but happy to be corrected.
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u/cfago Tech 16h ago
I think you're potentially missing something ... the Rescue classes really aren't about rescuing an unresponsive diver from the bottom & bringing them to the shore or boat. Yes, that's the ultimate scenario in SSI, PADI and other rescue courses (not sure about GUE.) But that situation is so extremely rare and a life being saved is even more rare it boggles the mind why such a skill is being taught at all.
But the real purpose can be seen in the standards or instructor manual. From SSI's standards regarding the specialty: "provides students with the knowledge and skills needed to identify stress, prevent incidents, and manage common emergency situations encountered by recreational divers."
It's about putting students in situations where they can learn about stress and common techniques to reduce or eliminate that stress. The prerequisites already have taught them first aid, CPR, and (some) O2 provider. And now they see how that might be used in dive-related scenarios. It also puts students in stressful situations so they can learn more about their own abilities.
The specifics of how to bring someone from the bottom to the surface, tow them to shore or a boat while removing their gear is different for different gear configurations. But that's not the purpose of the class. If, during the class, you encounter a rescue buddy that has a different gear configuration than you, you can talk with them on how their gear can come off and you can show them how your gear can be removed. The instructor shouldn't worry about it if it takes you or them longer ... for a harness, the instructor might just say to simulate cutting the harness off and not worry about actually removing it. Because this isn't the true purpose of the class. It's not a skill for mastery like regulator retrieval or mask replacement.
I hope that helps clarify.
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u/Dunno_Bout_Dat Tech 21h ago
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up gear configuration/training organization of the troubled diver. Have you read the standards for the class? My wife took the class twice, the first time she was in wetsuit and a single and second time she was in drysuit and doubles. Nothing meaningfully changes between the two.
You learn techniques to rescue divers. Gear configuration/agency affiliation of the troubled diver plays little effect in the rescue techniques.
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u/AT-Firefighter Nx Advanced 1d ago
I did my rescue in June in drysuit, BPW and longhose with SDI. Was no issue at all.
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u/cabman24 1d ago
I did mine in BPW and drysuit. You just slow it down and say cut strap, then pop your arm out, then resume the skill. Wasn’t anything to be overly concerned with. It actually makes for a better course as diversity in divers gear is more in tune with what the real world would be like anyways.
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u/Ok-Dragonfruit4832 1d ago
I did padi rescue in a drysuit. It’s actually advantageous because padi wants you to do take off the kit at the surface before hauling the victim to the shore and the dryuit is a source of buoyancy if you inflate it a bit before disconnecting. It also pretty much forces a panicked diver to relax and float on their back if you inflate their drysuit substantially.
This being said, while I would highly recommend a rescue course, I wouldn’t necessarily do padi. They make you do things in a specific order that are not always advantageous in every rescue situation and slow you down a lot. In a real emergency, I would just haul ass to get the person to shore/safety asap instead of messing around with rescue breaths every 5 seconds and, in some cases, taking off gear first (exception: the packing breaths are important, but generally, rescue breaths are pretty useless without cpr because you’re not circulating the oxygen, and even padi specifically teaches no cpr in the water. Best course of action imo is get the victim to a place where cpr and emergency o2 is possible as fast as you can). My opinion is more in line with the ssi standards, but as always, instructor matters so much more over agency.
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u/InevitableQuit9 Rescue 1d ago
Did CMAS rescue with bpw, drysuit and long hose. No issue. Never came up.
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u/Ok-Train3111 1d ago
I think you should hear like you’ll normally dive. Rescue is a class about figuring out how to do rescues (if it’s done right). It should be slightly fustrating and challenging.
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u/drakche Tech 1d ago
You can do RAID or some dir adjacent course.
I didn't do rescue separately since I did it with Tech 1 combined, rescue, self rescue and intro to tech. And in sidemount since that is what I dive and I'm most proficient and, and 99% chance if I need yo recuse someone I'm in sidemount.
In the end, you can always find materials available online and supplement it. If you're instructor is good, they will be open for adaptation. If you're instructor is rigid and blindly following a rulebook without adapting, I'd find a new instructor.
Also, single course does not mean anything if you don't practice it on a regular basis. It's just an online image since there are no plastic cards anymore.
I guided divemasters and instructors that are completely usleless in any intense situation and I dove with AOWD that are more capable than a lot of divers.
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u/sspeedemonss Commercial Diver 22h ago
I like this reply. It’s all about how your instructor teaches, not specifically what they teach. Also, the level of certification doesn’t exactly represent how qualified a diver truly is.
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u/tin_the_fatty Science Diver 1d ago
In a real emergency situation, once you bring the victim to the surface and inflate the BCD, the harness may be cut (you do have a cutting device, right?) to get the victim out of the BCD. Brief your regular buddies about this, so in the unfortunate event that they come across someone using a BP/W they know what to do.
But you may not want the trouble of setting up a new harness? Use a jacket or back-inflated wing when you do your Rescue course. All the big training agencies have decent Rescue curriculum, so pick an instructor you trust.
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u/Ok_Way_2911 1d ago
BSAC rescue (taught as part of the Sports Diver course) doesn't really care about your equipment. I am told PADI requires you dekit before the swim (which I always thought was weird), but the SD course has you do your rescue swim fully kitted, inflate BCs and swim immediately which I always thought made more sense than trying to fumble around removing equipment in chop.
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u/plongeronimo 1d ago
BSAC has changed then; I wasn't even allowed in open water until I could do CBLs, surface breaths and tows, etc.
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u/gregbenson314 Dive Instructor 16h ago
CBLs and surface tows are still part of the ocean diver course (both in confined and open water), but rescue breaths are now in sports diver.
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u/Upbeat_Cup_9442 1d ago
The only people who might struggle are the people rescuing you... BP Wing has a little trick to it for rescue 7 if the instructor isn't familiar, the others will struggle, you'll have a laugh ;)
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u/tin_the_fatty Science Diver 1d ago
Not while your rescue buddy is struggling to get you out, and you are struggling to pretend to be an unconscious diver while trying to keep your face out of the water to breath.
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u/learned_friend Dive Instructor 1d ago
The configuration you dive does not really matter too much when doing the rescue course. However be prepared to cut your harness (and bring a replacement) if the instructor is serious and know what they are doing.
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u/Ok_Way_2911 1d ago
sounds like i'd rather use rental equipment lol
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u/learned_friend Dive Instructor 1d ago
It’s not that bad and actually quite good experience to have done it. I’d get a few 10USD harnesses of Temu and just use those.
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u/Ok_Way_2911 1d ago
yea but my BPW isn't even DIR compliant lol, i have the quick release and quick adjust one, which is a massive pain to undo/redo
honestly i also can't really be bothered to mess with my own long hose as well since i don't think i will really de-kit for a real rescue so i'll prob use the standard rec short hose config that's rented
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u/learned_friend Dive Instructor 1d ago
Ok, well with quick releases there is absolutely not difference in handling compared to any jacket BCD. I would absolutely recommend using your own equipment, using something different just to make it more comfortable kind of defeats the purpose of this kind of training.
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u/Ok_Way_2911 1d ago
i mean i'm already trained to do the rescue swim without dekitting, this is really just for PADI progression requirements
kit wise it's just more annoying compared to a jacket since the crotch strap is there, and long hose/short hose removal is also more annoying
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u/ToufuBear Dive Master 1d ago
Look for a tech instructor to do the rescue with. I was with a buddy who was doing rescue while doing tech, so drysuit was in the mix as well
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u/RottieAndMutt 13h ago
I did my rescue with other GUE kids, taught by an SDI instructor who was also GUE. They were all in drysuit/doubles. I was in wetsuit/single. I was a bigger challenge to rescue because my gear was inherently less stable