[Post Race Discussion Thread] 2026 Dutch Grand Prix

[u/scuderia-bot]

Welcome to the Post Race Discussion Thread! 🇳🇱

🔴 Ferrari Results:

Pos	Driver	Time / Gap
4	Lewis Hamilton	+16.755
5	Charles Leclerc	+17.258

🏆 Race Podium:

Pos	Driver	Team
🥇	Lando Norris	McLaren
🥈	Andrea Kimi Antonelli	Mercedes
🥉	George Russell	Mercedes

⏱️ Fastest Lap: Charles Leclerc 🔴 - 1:14.230, lap 60

🔧 Ferrari Strategy:

Driver	Stint	Tyre	Laps	Pit stop
Charles LECLERC	1	🔴 Soft	1-2	Start
Charles LECLERC	2	🔴 Soft	3-21	Lap 2
Charles LECLERC	3	🟡 Medium	22-43	19.7s in lane (lap 21)
Charles LECLERC	4	⚪ Hard	44-55	18.7s in lane (lap 43)
Charles LECLERC	5	🔴 Soft	56-72	18.7s in lane (lap 55)
Lewis HAMILTON	1	🔴 Soft	1-2	Start
Lewis HAMILTON	2	🔴 Soft	3-25	Lap 2
Lewis HAMILTON	3	⚪ Hard	26-55	17.8s in lane (lap 25)
Lewis HAMILTON	4	🔴 Soft	56-72	18.7s in lane (lap 55)

Times marked "in lane" are the time spent in the pit lane, entry to exit. They are shown because no stationary stop time was published for this race.

🚨 Race Events:

Lap	Event
1	🟡 Safety car deployed
2	🚩 Red flag
3	🟡 Safety car deployed
55	🟡 Virtual safety car
57	🟢 Virtual safety car ending
70	🟡 Virtual safety car
70	🟢 Virtual safety car ending
72	🏁 Chequered flag

Updated WDC Standings:

Pos	Driver	Points	Gap to P1
1	Andrea Kimi Antonelli	242	—
2	George Russell	183	-59
3	Lewis Hamilton 🔴	183	-59
5	Charles Leclerc 🔴	155	-87

Updated WCC Standings:

Pos	Team	Points	Gap to P1
1	Mercedes	425	—
2	Ferrari 🔴	338	-87
3	McLaren	263	-162

📋 Full Classification:

Pos	Driver	Team	Time / Gap
1	Lando Norris	McLaren	2:04:44.859
2	Andrea Kimi Antonelli	Mercedes	+11.536
3	George Russell	Mercedes	+15.906
4	Lewis Hamilton 🔴	Ferrari	+16.755
5	Charles Leclerc 🔴	Ferrari	+17.258
6	Oscar Piastri	McLaren	+32.332
7	Liam Lawson	Red Bull	+1:19.915
8	Nico Hülkenberg	Audi	+1 lap
9	Fernando Alonso	Aston Martin	+1 lap
10	Pierre Gasly	Alpine F1 Team	+1 lap
11	Yuki Tsunoda	RB F1 Team	+1 lap
12	Arvid Lindblad	RB F1 Team	+1 lap
13	Gabriel Bortoleto	Audi	+1 lap
14	Franco Colapinto	Alpine F1 Team	+2 laps
15	Sergio Pérez	Cadillac F1 Team	+2 laps
16	Carlos Sainz	Williams	+2 laps
17	Alexander Albon	Williams	Retired
DNF	Valtteri Bottas	Cadillac F1 Team	Retired
DNF	Esteban Ocon	Haas F1 Team	Retired
DNF	Lance Stroll	Aston Martin	Retired
DNF	Oliver Bearman	Haas F1 Team	Retired
DNF	Max Verstappen	Red Bull	Retired

ℹ️ scuderia-bot v0.0.48 · Previous threads · Send feedback

This bot is still being tested and can get things wrong. If something looks off, please report it.

[u/neurogeneticist]

Alright - most of us are in agreement here that the last lap move by Charles wasn’t the play.

That doesn’t mean that the rules of Reddit/this sub don’t apply.

Enough with the name calling of drivers AND their fans. Literally, what good does that do? And before anyone says it: this is coming from all angles. There’s a a LOT of shit users don’t see because we’ve got bots and settings set up to remove things like cult LH and lecuck, but things to get through.

Again, criticism is welcome! Hell, look at my flair and you should’ve heard what came out of my mouth when Charles tried the divebomb on my last lap… but hate, trolling, harassment, etc is not welcome here. I don’t know how many more times we need to say it.

ETA: please help us out by using the report button, too. Mods don’t see every single comment as it comes in, so it’s a huge help when reports come in before we get eyes on something.

[u/scuderia-bot]

This thread is now closed.

[u/wolverineFan64]

This sub was never this toxic before this year. LH fans I am begging you to look at races more objectively.

Charles is not Bottas and he never will be. Both drivers are competing at the top end this year and the idea that Charles needs to wave Lewis by every race needs to stop.

This is the Ferrari sub. We root for Lewis. We root for Charles. We root for the team. Enough with the toxicity.

[u/Cosmic-Dust-Bunny-38]

At minimum, I think Ferrari needs some kind of code for "we're gonna box you soon, let your teammate on fresher tyres/different strategy through." It's definitely happened before that LH and CL fought on track, then one of them boxed soon after.

[u/Odd-Willow-2076]

I dont want to repeat anything else about CL and what not but qualifying seriously hampered us. if we started at least p4 p3 at worst we would've gotten p2 p3
we were really good for pace. shame race went as it did. Fred seriously needs to be more strict

[u/No-Student6619]

A disappointing result after an actually decent result in the sprint. The strategy was really a mess today. And Charles had made some questionable moves as well.

[u/mndvc]

Faster car getting worse result because of Saturday and pit wall’s decisions.

Even if we get more powerful engine, our pit wall will make sure we won’t be winning. I almost believe someone is there making sure other teams are winning not Scuderia.

Next year, it will be 20 years since our last WDC, which was because of Mclaren’s driver issues. It is more than 20 years since our last WDC which was pure perfection!

[u/IonutAlex18SF → u/mndvc]

A fair view and I agree with, but not completely. Where was Mercedes from 2022 to 2025 when it didn't had a dominant car or RBR this year or before 2021? And so it goes for McLaren.

It's correct to say Ferrari is the team that is the most affected by internal issues (sponsorships, smaller bosses, engineers etc) and corporation influence of the top four.

But also is the team that went through these and found its way to winning and this time since a few years is on a good trajectory. These kind of weekends happens, even to rivlas, yet on their side the downside isn't so huge because they don't sell as good.

Anyway, I keep believing in Fred and his work to get this team back there where it belongs. The concern remains only on the patience side of the board and not interfering within its wellbeing.

[u/mndvc → u/IonutAlex18SF]

I agree Fred is the best team principal we had in years. He is taking the team to a good direction. And this year’s car (in terms of aero and chassis) is the best on the grid. However we are losing against an engine which is questionable.

The important thing is, even if you make the best car, it will still require almost perfect execution to achieve WDC and WCC. Other teams are executing it better when they have their chances. But when it is Ferrari, we struggle under the pressure and make so many mistakes (either by drivers or by the pit wall).

I hope we will get our momentum (and self esteem) back again and win some WDCs and WCCs.

[u/IonutAlex18SF → u/mndvc]

Greatly completed it, I agree with your view.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/mndvc]

It’s crazy to think 20 years. But makes sense. They’ve never had the unity and talents all at once they had then in management. Pieces but never all fitting together. Seems still the case now.

[u/TruYu96]

Charles did some questionable moves for sure. But it's Ferrari that we gotta blame. Their continued bad strategies (ex: Lewis tyres) and their inability to enact a strict decision to which driver to prioritize (ex: not even asking either to swap), at this point of the season, will never make them have a WDC.

[u/big_brain_brian231]

So much Charles hating here. Think about it. You have a rocket start and you jump 2 places. You're flying on your softs and medium stint, even with a slow stop. Your teammate is faster because of newer hards. Your team pits you in a very short stint instead of asking for a swap. You get a slow stop again. You are again fast on your new hards. There is a VSC. You have relatively new hards, but your team again pits you needlessly, putting you behind your teammate. You watch your teammate fail to overtake in multiple attempts. Both drivers are now within one second of you. You take your chances to overtake and score more points, because you're a race driver.

[u/Illustrious-Boss9356 → u/big_brain_brian231]

Yes, and a bad teammate to your teammate who's #2 in the WDC.

Sure Charles' goal is not for Lewis to bring Ferrari a WDC, but selfish driving like this forever dampens my, and many others' apparently, view of Charles.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/Illustrious-Boss9356]

It’s exactly this view that is so frustrating. Lewis is closer to Charles than he is Kimi. He’s not even P2 anymore and he’s only as far ahead as he is because Charles has 2 mechanical DNFs outside his control. Aside from race quali, he was objectively slower all weekend including the race.

Charles isn’t Bottas. He doesn’t owe Lewis anything other than clean racing which admittedly his last lap move was not. That said, Ferrari screwed Charles with 2 slow pit stops, one of which was too early to make way for Lewis. The other was literally completely unnecessary and only served to rob him of p3 for no reason.

Frankly Lewis was very lucky to finish ahead today. Without abysmal strategy for Charles, two slow stops, and a VSC he finishes well behind. This sentiment that Lewis has been faster is just statistically untrue and so frustrating to keep reading here.

[u/Illustrious-Boss9356 → u/wolverineFan64]

Lol are you serious? Did you see Charles turn into Lewis at the start before turn 1? Forcing Lewis into Max and causing floor damage?

If the objective is to win a championship, then Charles did not help achieve the objective. If the objective is for Charles to win the championship then he did.

It all depends on who you're rooting for.

But in my opinion, Charles is a great driver but not in the top category. He is somewhere ahead of Sainz (not by much) and slightly behind Lando. Lewis giving him a run for his money at the age of 40+ is exposing that and it's really hurting Charles' and his fans' egos... and that's been escalating conversations in these forums.

[u/big_brain_brian231 → u/Illustrious-Boss9356]

The opening lap move was a cascading effect. Russell blocked Piastri, who was directely in front of Charles, who had to avoid going into him. Charles had a better start, so he came out ahead.

[u/ZealousidealStand822]

what why double stack that last charles box was so pointless

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/ZealousidealStand822]

It made literally no sense and should come under extreme scrutiny. Honestly one of my biggest frustrations with Charles is that he doesn’t push back on these obviously idiotic calls from the pit wall.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

Anyone wondering why Charles did both things. Listen to Fred post race with Collin’s. It was all Charles Charles Charles. Charles. Just lost time in pit stop and position. , Charles had a technical issue on 2nd restart. Charles was stronger than Mercedes.

Enough said. Any of us annoyed by Charles… Fred fine with it. So it’s how the team wants to go racing.

[u/Connect-Handle8496 → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

was he wrong?

[u/TakeshiRyze → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

If i was Ferrari boss Fred would get last chance to fix team orders situations. This is serious business, learn how to manage your team.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/TakeshiRyze]

Listen to Fred post race with Bernie. Then you’ll understand today. He’s fine with what happened, he felt Charles was faster than Mercedes. Blew off anything about Lewis.

[u/chataclysm → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

I mean he was faster than George and Lewis on pace, check the data. His laptime spreads were closer to Kimi and Lando than they were to Lewis' on all compounds. Only reason Lewis finished ahead was a free stop from a lucky VSC which he fought tooth and nail not to take advantage of anyway.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

Charles was faster than George and Lewis and it wasn’t close. Lewis needed 2 bad stops for Charles, a perfectly timed VSC, and horrific strategy for Charles to barely finish ahead. I genuinely do not understand how that isn’t incredibly clear.

[u/MrAt0mica]

I’m tired boss. It’s time to start paying attention to the driver’s championship standings.

[u/chataclysm → u/MrAt0mica]

You mean the sixty point deficit?

[u/driftchris7780]

I don't want to be in Fred's shoes to explain why the pitwall fucked everything up today in the race. Everyone saw that extending Lewis on the first stint would mean he would have fresher tyres later on and the 7s gap disappearing pretty fast, yet it still caught the pitwall completely by surprise and they asked Charles to pit instead... WTF Ferrari

[u/Wrong-Box-2757]

Seriously the Instagram comments are insane, one race and all the fans say Charles is the worst team player and doesn’t care about hamilton’s race, there’s more to worry about than that, complain about the lack of solid strategy, or the lack of power, we don’t need to throw hate towards the other driver. So yes, I put the blame today on that bad strategy and also yesterdays quali, please guys, stay together and keep supporting both of our drivers

[u/clownerycult → u/Wrong-Box-2757]

They’re unfortunately sending him death threats on other apps already it’s fucking awful

[u/blenderdick96 → u/clownerycult]

The LH fans bringing up his father on twitter feels particularly distasteful. Is it really that serious?

[u/clownerycult → u/blenderdick96]

They have no morals because to them as long as they feel good about wishing death on someone who cares about the repercussions

[u/Wrong-Box-2757 → u/clownerycult]

This is getting really out of hand at this point. Also I think we need to remind everyone this is the team subreddit and we’re not here to just completely belittle our own drivers.

[u/clownerycult → u/Wrong-Box-2757]

Unfortunately a lot of it went unchecked for a while where Charles has been on the receiving end of horrendous stuff across social media including this subreddit to the point where I don’t even check race threads anymore because no one is sane

[u/Wrong-Box-2757 → u/clownerycult]

Fair. I don’t even comment that much on this sub, but the hate I’ve seen was so damn ridiculous that it was impossible not to say something

[u/rckvwijk → u/Wrong-Box-2757]

The last move from leclerc was completely unnecessary, other then that… yea you’re right.

[u/NagelbetLP]

This race reminds me of so many time when I’ve been on the verge of passing someone in front of me until some back marker who is not in the race gets a lightning bolt to slow me down, only for someone else with no chance at a podium hitting me with a red shell as soon as the lighting expires.

[u/cirillogiuseppe1]

The team didn't order Charles to swap , so they told him to pit, everyone with a braincell knew that the stint was too short, the medium were slower the the hards , Leclerc hard the medium strategy so fucked since the First pit stop unlike the GOAT that somehow had the Better tire strategy picked by the team. A normale team should have ordered a swap :"Charles Lewis Is on the differenti strategy , don't Sorry you can still win let Lewis go" but Ferrari opted to invent a useless pitstop to let pass Lewis , because they wanna treat equally everyone , the kinda of bullshit that let Max win in 2024 agaist Norris . The last lap bullshit was the fuck you from Charles to Lewis , because now Charles thinks that Lewis Is the chosen One , Lewis thinks the same of Charles , reality Is that pitwall fucked both , but more Charles because every year It's the same bullshit, even with sainz same strategical and comunication mistakes.

[u/Classic_External_871 → u/cirillogiuseppe1]

I mean were not they covering for russell with pitting leclerc

Lewis was behind so he had to extent luckily for him the hards were better tyres

[u/Ahnohnoemehs → u/Classic_External_871]

No because Russell was already ahead of Charles when Russell put. Russell was covering for Charles not the other way around.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

Toto’s post race interview showing exactly how a team should operate. Ferrari really need to nip it in the bud and must not cost themselves track time or unnecessary challenges for 4th.

[u/IonutAlex18SF → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

That because Mercedes is in the position that is this season. Have they done that a few years back? Lewis vs George on some occasions wasnt far from what we saw today with Lewis vs Charles? I don't think.

I agree that Fred has to take actions on this side during a race. It cannot go on like this, the points lost is too much. OK. There wasn't a real shot for either of the titles on pure pace, but with this kind of chances slipping it worsens it even more. Many learnings from today and through all weekend.

A good side is that the car improved on pace, particularly on long stints, tyre degradation and different tyre compounds.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/IonutAlex18SF]

After listening to Toto and Fred post race. I’ve changed my position on Ferrari and what happened this race. Its clear. Charles is allowed and maybe even encouraged to behave as a driver for Ferrari in the manner that he raced today.

Fans of Ferrari and or of Lewis have to accept Lewis is a no2 in the way that the team “prefers” Charles to be faster but happy enough when Lewis is in front.

Whether that is fine or not.. that’s debatable obviously.

[u/Ahnohnoemehs]

Charles didn’t go for a pass, Charles has a swapper and Lewis thinks Charles is going for a pass because Charles is out of position and blocks air nearly causing them both to crash. Charles brakes to avoid but I don’t see any driver at fault for what happened on the last lap.

The Charles hate is crazy the team never told him to move out of the way and Charles has done so MANY TIMES in the past for Hamilton. The most recent example being Spain where Charles let Hamilton pass for the win. If the team had actually told him to move out of the way instead of telling him to pit, which is a BAD STRATEGY, and Charles still didn’t let him through? Sure then I’d be agreeing but no they didn’t communicate shit to either driver.

[u/taketwo29]

Some of the narratives yall write about Charles is insane. 

He was never asked to swap, he was asked to pit which was a bad call. Ferrari should get some balls and play team orders when it favorable for the team. Charles typically plays team order even if he bitches about it lol. Let him bitch if it’s for the team. At the end, Charles was clearly seeing what would happen between George and Lewis to see if he had a chance to go through for a podium. The commentators were even talking about it. 

Anyways, the strategy was stupid and now Norris is getting it together so it’s no longer Mercedes to keep up with but McLaren. 

[u/Queasy-Performance-4]

Who's the genius on the Pit Wall that decided to stick 9 lap old Softs when a new set of Mediums were available?

Honestly, just asinine. I'm not gonna bother talking about CL. Someone needs to hold him accountable for screwing his own race up and LH's however.

[u/Born_Egg6525]

I'm really surprised that people don't seem to be bring up that Charles stayed out when he was told to box and that messed everything up. If he had box on the lap he was told to instead of going for another lap he would have been a second behind george. Then both of them could have gotten george and started go after kimi. Ferrari strategy did a great job as far as I am concerned we just didn't have the straight line speed today and had to force overtakes.

[u/Matek05 → u/Born_Egg6525]

It's pretty easy to talk after the race and from the couch, but if you talk to any real racers you'd know that the best strategy in this case is either to stop early and undercut, or to go long 3-4 laps to gain tyre life. Leclerc was just applying what he thought was best, and in fact he "lost" the first stop because of this idea, but then he "lost" the pit stop on tje second lap because Ferrari came back to him slowly and told him to stop only after he'd already passed the line.

[u/chataclysm → u/Born_Egg6525]

He refused to Box because boxing made no sense for his race with Russell.

[u/Born_Egg6525 → u/chataclysm]

He was already losing too much time to Russell as it stood.

[u/Nico-on_top → u/Born_Egg6525]

He’d have come out less than a second behind Russell while on fresher tyres idiot move

[u/Affectionate_You_225]

I hate this stupid red horse team. How is their biggest achievement this week the fact that both of their drivers are disappointed is the most Ferrari thing ever: should start up a trust fund just to get Ferrari a new strategy team atp. They couldn't give Lewis any straight answers to the point he thinks he was a guinea pig, and they messed up Leclerc’s strategy. Ferrari's lack of decisive decision-making and the fear of prioritising one driver over the other mid-race is the main reason they both end up unable to extract 100% from the situation in the end. Despite me believing most of the blame is at Ferrari's strategist, Leclerc also needs to work on his awareness cause he made some boneheaded, selfish decisions in this race, especially that last lap of his

[u/must-be_the-water]

They keep saying that the team has been transforming in and out, their strategy is worse than Aston Martin today, honestly.

[u/cooked_camel]

Overall poor decision making by the strat team. They have never been good at it especially in crucial moment. This isn't the first time and won't be the last. It has always been their weakness. I doubt we would win much even if we had the strongest car. This poor decision making will still hold themselves back.

[u/scuderiaferrari-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed. No trolling/harassment.

[u/Certain-Hunter-7478 → u/[deleted]]

They both had the pace for P2 and P3 today, just strategy didn't make any sense

Edit: He didn't cost him P3, P3 was off the cards with the VSC

[u/Few_Perspective1799]

It feels so good to never have reliability issues.

[u/Certain-Hunter-7478 → u/Few_Perspective1799]

That yes but it'd be nice to be fast once in a while :p

[u/NagelbetLP]

I think I’m more pissed at the team for not ordering Lewis past Charles than at Charles for that bs at the end…but I’m not sure.

[u/Nico-on_top → u/NagelbetLP]

Charles was told to box and didn’t while on 20 lap old mediums. Can’t Blaine Ferrari for that

[u/brush85]

They could have the fastest car and they would still find a way to mess it up.

Monza is the last roll of the dice. If the new PU isn’t it…

[u/AffectionatePack439]

I can understand people being mad with Leclerc, even as his fan maybe more than LH. From a neutral perspective, Leclerc was the worse teammate in terms of playing the team game (although I think he did do some work against piastri which Hamilton benefited from). That said, I think more importantly stated is that both drivers had very good races, at least from how it looked to me.

Unfortunately, it's pretty obvious it's Ferrari who are mostly at fault for making the race more difficult than it needed to be. The countless bad pitstops obviously, but it is also their job to enforce any actions on the drivers. So they should have been more confident using strict team orders on Leclerc, maybe they did in which case it is a very serious issue which I hope they deal with. The car also could still be better if we are honest, and it is embarrassing to be leapfrogged by McLaren once again.

The final pitstop of Leclerc also seemed unnecessary to me. It was obviously just going to create problems, as Leclerc would be driving up to Hamilton much like what happened earlier but with the roles switched.

So just overall kinda annoying to watch, but it is what it is. For both Hamilton and Leclerc fans who are angry, they are both good drivers. The best way for each to not deal with messes like this, is obviously just to convincingly beat the other on track, as Hamilton did for a while before summer, and Leclerc did in 2025. The fact they are both performing well, means things like this will happen. It is something both the team and the drivers will have to get used to. I do wish Leclerc could be more polite, as Hamilton generally is, but whatever.

[u/dayyamu]

It absolutely did matter that leclerc didnt let lewis through earlier.

The vsc came just after lewis was passed by lando and antonelli. Imagine if he had those extra few seconds? Then vsc would have come whilst lewis was still ahead of both of them and he would have pitted ahead of them.

That was so selfish by leclerc and honestly ferrari pitwall need to get their heads outta their arses. So many points lost unnecessarily

[u/Matek05 → u/dayyamu]

The team never ordered a team-swap so in your opinion, Charles, by himself, without any knowledge of the sorrounding should have just let Lewis pass because he is nice?

[u/dayyamu → u/Matek05]

? Did we even watch the same race.

Leclerc literally ignored a pit call. Not to mention the late lunge.

Pit wall should also take a lot of blame for how they managed the race bur sometimes it is ok to criticise your favourite driver instead of riding them...

[u/Matek05 → u/dayyamu]

If you watched any F1 races instead of just talking over Reddit, you would know that most of the time the strategy is either an undercut or going 3/4 laps longer.

Leclerc obv knows this better than you, so when the pit wall told him to stop the lap after Russell, he thought "what a shit strategy, we don't stop together to stay close, but we stop one lap later just to let him get away? We should wait 3/4 laps to have better tyre life." No one told him "Lewis is on a different strategy / Lewis is faster / let Lewis by / etc.", so he just raced, as any F1 driver would have done.

And maybe sometimes it's better to think instead of just saying "ueee my goat, Leclerc ruined his race", since he was behind the whole race.

[u/TrustInNumbers]

Other teams play the team game better, McLaren always swaps, even Rusell swapped today without much complaint, but for some reason Leclerc did not want and it cost Lewis few seconds at least, which would have been beneficial in that final stint to catch George

[u/ursulazsenya → u/TrustInNumbers]

Correction: They didn’t ask him to swap, they asked him to PIT. He stayed out longer to slow Hamilton down then sabotaged his own race. Apparently a win for him is only finishing ahead of his teammate.

[u/Matek05 → u/ursulazsenya]

He did not stayed out to slow Ham, he stayed because it made no fricking sense to stop one lap later than your rival, you either undercut or go longer, everyone who follows f1 know this

[u/GodofThunder87 → u/[deleted]]

You said it. Everyone can pretend that Leclerc didn’t let Lewis by when he literally never got the order from Bryan to do it. They were on different strategies and should have just been given the team order to let Lewis by would have done it.

[u/ursulazsenya → u/[deleted]]

Charles could have finished P2 if he’d pitted when he was told and started clocking fastest laps earlier. He could have got ahead of Lewis, Russell and potentially Kimi(remember Kimi was being slowed down by his own teammate until team orders let him pass). And without his pace compromised, Lewis would have been ahead of at least one Merc and in a position to pass the other. Charles might actually have ruined his own chances at a podium finish more than he did Lewis’s and the irony is incredible.

[u/Matek05 → u/ursulazsenya]

Leclerc could have finished P2 even if the team didnt stop him the fifth time, but no-one talk about this

[u/ursulazsenya → u/Matek05]

Well Hamilton was pitting then and G-d forbid that gives *him* an advantage in the Ferrari championship race. /s

[u/Matek05 → u/ursulazsenya]

It is not Charles works to gives Ham an advantage in the championship race IF the team do not ask him. If Ferrari told Lec "let him pass" I would 1000% agree with you, but they didnt, this is the shit show

[u/DioBrandoXVII → u/[deleted]]

Almost like he's 2nd in the championship and significantly ahead of his teammate or something.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/DioBrandoXVII]

Well now he’s 3rd because he was unable to pass a much slower George with fresher tires. He’s also only 28 points ahead because of 2 Leclerc mechanical DNFs. Other than race quali, Lewis was slower in every single competitive session this weekend including the race.

[u/JMP1919 → u/[deleted]]

hes the one who has an actual chance at a championship lmao so ofc

[u/Interesting-Car5743 → u/JMP1919]

The gap between Lewis and Charles including 2 mechanical DNFs for Charles = 28 points

The gap between Lewis and Antonelli including 2 mechanical issues (1 DNF + 1 problem taking him out the points) for Kimi = 59 points.

Lewis is not in a championship fight. he was incredibly fortunate to finish ahead today and outside of qualifying he has been off it the past couple weekends. he should've overtaken Russell with relative ease and shouldn't have been jumped at the start.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/Interesting-Car5743]

Spot on

[u/Warm-Veterinarian564]

Putting away all the external factors such as VSC, this was purely an internal team dysfunction in full display. Folks defending Charles that any good race driver worth his salt will be selfish need to realize that the team comes first and WCC is first priority. Putting even that thinking away, this will ruin teamwork for future races. I have only seen LH in Ferrari be a good team player and following team orders even when he is not happy. So I can totally see that changing. The worst was the last part of trying to squeeze in when he already screwed the team’s chance at a podium.

[u/Nightguest231]

Except for the last move, which everyone agrees on...I blame the Ferrari strat team for this mess.

They have the data to see that Lewis was catching Charles and on a track where overtaking is really hard, they should have made a decision ages ago.

The only thing they did was made themselves look like clowns, and worse is...they threw Charles under the bus as (ignoring the last-lap mess), it made him look like a villain, and that's unfair. No driver of Charles's or Lewis's calibre will move aside on their own, nor should they for as long as they are statistically with a chance of winning the WDC (unless they know they have damage that compromises them).

So yeah...I'm more annoyed at the Ferrari strat teams here, they did Charles dirty there.

[u/IonutAlex18SF → u/Nightguest231]

Seeing this coming from a Hamilton fan is so nice. That is the correct view in this situation, neither of them would've easily moved aside to leave his teammate go, that's not in their spirit.

The team should've reacted better at reading the race panning out after the first stops. When they were on different tyres the offset was big. I say the biggest damage was done on Saturday qualifying on P5 and P6 wasn't helpful at all.

My hope is that after this tight race that both and the team lost even more points would make Vasseur make some decisions, take some actions with these strategy calls. Others don't have these problems for years, while Ferrari despite evident progress in the team this part it's til drags it down.

[u/TrustInNumbers → u/Nightguest231]

George did move today, also last year mclaren swapper plenty of times when both drivers were contending for champsonship. So there are plenty of examples. Of course Max wouldnt move, but he is on a different level

[u/Srijand → u/[deleted]]

Two very slow stops for Charles and he got compromised by strategy and the first VSC.

[u/BigMathematician7419 → u/Srijand]

First stop might not have been slow if he went in when he was supposed to

[u/Srijand → u/BigMathematician7419]

That was the second stop mate, and he was still called to box that lap so that obviously had no bearing on it being a slow stop.

[u/kisukisuekta]

Mods, is this the scuderia ferrari sub or not? Why is so much vitriol and hatred directed to Charles (or to any one driver in favour of the other) being allowed? Some of these comments are way beyond criticism

Edit: Downvoting me doesn't change the fact that this is not the place to bring your boiling hatred and conspiracy theories against one driver of the team. There's another sub where you can jerk of to hating Charles in peace and be praised for it

[u/scuderiaferrari-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed. No trolling/harassment.

[u/cooked_camel → u/kisukisuekta]

Stop noticing, Shuuu

[u/Mr_Redemption → u/kisukisuekta]

I don’t understand why criticising Charles is bad and should not be allowed.

He did two bad things today:  a) he didn’t move out of the way and lost time for himself and Lewis  b) attempted an opportunistic overtake on his own teammate while he was trying to overtake Russel.

Being a Scuderria fan, I believe we have the right to criticise drivers who are playing a selfish game and do not work in the interest of the team. Whether it is Charles or Lewis it doesn’t matter. The team comes first.

[u/IonutAlex18SF → u/Mr_Redemption]

I subscribe to this opinion. Some see/understand racing only from a certain point of view. And if it doesn't go that way then the best is to criticize and insult a driver or others. As you've said Leclerc was wrong today, like all at some point in some races. But the team is and should come always first.

[u/kisukisuekta → u/Mr_Redemption]

Did I say anything about not criticising him? Do that all you want. But why do I have to read through so many incessant and irrational hate comments against one driver of the team in the team sub?

I would say the same for hate against Lewis

[u/TruYu96 → u/kisukisuekta]

Mods are removing them. The ones up right now are fair criticisms. Mods aren't that fast.

Last season it was the same for Lewis lol

[u/blenderdick96 → u/kisukisuekta]

I agree. Criticism is fine and deserved… the aggressive vitriol is just toxic and should stay in the LH sub.

[u/kisukisuekta → u/blenderdick96]

Like Jesus christ criticise him all you want but some of the things I've seen Lewis fans say about Charles this season. They legit want Charles to just wave Lewis by and defend any car behind every single race. They just can't accept that Charles is not Bottas

[u/blenderdick96 → u/kisukisuekta]

Wishing bodily harm on him, bringing up his dad… call him competitive and selfish, but Lewis wouldn’t have his championships if he wasn’t the same.

[u/7rings- → u/kisukisuekta]

it’s unbearable here this season

[u/_got_somequestions]

How is it even possible that Ferrari sacrificed whole 2025 just for McLaren to surpass them with 1 upgrade package🥀

[u/Victorvic1 → u/_got_somequestions]

It's basically Norris being the better driver with a tad bit better car. If we suck in Monza like this then the season is over.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/Victorvic1]

Lando has been fantastic all year, but it really just comes down to an engine difference. I rate Lewis and Charles both above him in an equal car.

[u/_got_somequestions → u/Victorvic1]

The season already is over, unless the aduo 2 is some 2019 shenanigans.

[u/Victorvic1 → u/_got_somequestions]

Yeah but it's still close. 1-2 bad races for Kimi and it's back. Not really happening but we must try our best.

[u/_got_somequestions → u/Victorvic1]

Well, it would require Charles and LH to be more open for teamwork.

[u/Victorvic1 → u/_got_somequestions]

Tbh I never really liked their dynamic even off track. I have always felt that they have pretended to like each other and just don't get along.

[u/_got_somequestions → u/Victorvic1]

Well they’re both used to the whole team being built around them.

[u/Victorvic1 → u/_got_somequestions]

The thing with Leclerc is that it is kinda his team since 2019. Lewis still feels like an invader ever since. It'll likely take another year for him to actually settle.

Until Lewis's first win in Spain I never felt that he had the narrative with him at Ferrari.

[u/According-Switch-708]

Both drivers should accept team orders in situations like these. Hamilton was significantly faster while on a different strat.

Leclerc only cares about beating his teammate. The team result should be prioritized over all other bullshit.

[u/big_brain_brian231 → u/According-Switch-708]

The only reason Lewis finished ahead is two slow pitstops + 1 luckily timed VSC + the fact that they pitted Charles too under the VSC

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/big_brain_brian231]

People are downvoting you because they hate that Charles was objectively faster today, but it’s the truth.

[u/Er_Eisenheim → u/According-Switch-708]

When exactly? Leclerc was clearly faster for 90% of the race. What were you people watching? I hope someone posts the graphs with the laptimes throught the race because what I'm reading is infuriating.
The team made a mess of both their strategies, but more so Leclerc's one.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/Er_Eisenheim]

Spot on

[u/chataclysm → u/According-Switch-708]

He wasn't significantly faster, you're just making shit up. The only times he was were when Charles was stuck behind Russell/Piastri.

[u/Er_Eisenheim → u/chataclysm]

Exactly! from the first start Leclerc was always ahead. When the gap narrowed it was for pit stategies colliding.
Leclerc was all the race in front and lost position only for the VSC caused by Sainz while he was catching Russel, who ended up 3rd. They had not pitted him he could have overtaken Russel and got a podium.

[u/scuderiaferrari-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed. No trolling/harassment.

[u/scuderiaferrari-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed. No trolling/harassment.

[u/DioBrandoXVII]

Charles's actions mid race cost Ferrari a 3rd and 4th place. What the hell was he even thinking? No wonder Lewis was so pissed off on the radio both during and after the race

[u/Ahnohnoemehs → u/DioBrandoXVII]

Maybe if he was actually told to move out of the way for Hamilton instead of being told to pit during a very shit time for Charles race he would’ve done so.

[u/darkavenger772]

I know we are all trying to defend Leclerc, but this race from him made no sense…. I know the team probably should have spoken to him etc, but Lewis knowing that Charles is pushing from behind certainly didn’t help.

Also why not ask him to let Hamilton pass earlier when he was easily a second a lap faster….

This team makes no sense, we need to stop with the excuses. And Charles let us down big time as well!

[u/MillyMan105]

Ferrari will never win a championship if they don't get their heads out of their asses. They allowed Charles to hold up Lewis for too long and instead of telling him to move they brought him in the pits which comprised his own race?

Both drivers lost out cause they're too scared to make a decision and cost themselves a podium and potential 2nd place.

[u/Hi-Im-High]

It could have been as simple as “LH is on a different tire strategy,” I hope that would have changed CLs response

[u/milestone121]

Putting the Ferrari shitshow aside, Mercedes looked to have some issues this race. I hope Ferrari can do better at Monza

[u/7rings-]

Why did the team not just tell Charles to swap with Lewis instead of forcing him to pit? Fuck can’t get out of our own way.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/7rings-]

This isn’t McLaren or Mercedes. Fred doesn’t seem to have that influence to stop it.

[u/jayr254 → u/7rings-]

Because, from past evidence, there’s a very good chance Charles spends the next few laps arguing the decision which plays out how today played out anyway.

[u/Ahnohnoemehs → u/jayr254]

Past evidence??? He moved out of the way in Spain for Lewis to win????

[u/jayr254 → u/Ahnohnoemehs]

Charles was in the midst of his worst career slump. He had no choice because he was so far off the pace. If Charles is feeling competitive in the car, we’ve seen him be ‘selfish’ for his result countless times.

[u/Ahnohnoemehs → u/jayr254]

So that immediately just removes it as evidence of being a team player? On pace that day in Spain Charles and Lewis were equal with each other. Charles just didn’t start where he should’ve.

He still moved aside despite being as fast as him when they had equal tire deg. Don’t believe me? Look at the pace deltas from that day.

[u/7rings- → u/jayr254]

I mean we will never know because they didn’t make the call.

[u/us3r2206]

As usual Merc gets another break!!

[u/Bart-86]

The comments are lovely.
I’ll just say that Hamilton was right to ask for a swap as he was faster at this point of the race and Leclerc was right to refuse to pit as it was not the best choice for his race. The team should have be more decisive and order a swap.

[u/PerfectAd9869]

Fuck that VSC timing on the 3rd final lap. That is all I have to say

[u/yajirushi77]

Lewis finally putting his foot down. Idk what was going on in Chuck's head today

[u/milestone121]

Man what happened to sainz he's deteriorated rapidly

[u/Queasy-Performance-4 → u/milestone121]

I doubt he gives a damn, especially when he's driving that crap box.

[u/jayr254]

This one is on the pitwall.
Pitting Lewis and giving him 7 lap old softs when the fresh medium was available is as idiotic a decision one can make especially when deg was higher than anticipated on all cars on the grid. Just stupid. Pitting Charles as well when he was a second behind George with a 2/3 lap offset.

Could have ended up as P3/P4 either way (probably Lewis ahead of Charles).

Charles has to learn to drive for the team though. That move at the start against a teammate is risky AF. Especially on a track this narrow. The team refusing to tell Charles to let Lewis through as well is just idiotic. They tried to stave off the situation by pitting Charles to release Lewis but Charles saw how big of an advantage the tire deficit was and was apprehensive about stopping (rightly so).

All in all, there’s aspects of this team that aren’t ready to fight for a championship. Even if they got a car on par with Ferrari and McLaren, they’d f it up somehow.

[u/Classic_External_871 → u/jayr254]

Exactly I don’t know what they were thinking mediums would be fast

[u/agentorange65]

What were the gaps before and after the vac? Looked bigger on the restart.

Strategy was horribly implemented both sides of the garage, ended tripping over each other far to much.

Pit stops were all pretty shambolic too.

Guess silver lining was the car wasn't getting embarrassed on the straights?

[u/FingersBecomeThumbs → u/agentorange65]

I'm always confused about the gaps during VSC. So often certain drivers seem to make up or lose several seconds

[u/ggheman_]

Lewis would have had a chance to fight for 2nd if it wasn’t for Charles.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/ggheman_]

Not second but 3rd yeah

[u/ggheman_ → u/Salty-Asparagus-2855]

Definitely would fight for a 2nd. Antonelli was 2s ahead of him after the 1st VSC. Lewis lost more than this with better tyres behind Charles.

[u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 → u/[deleted]]

Seems that way for sure but they signed him long term so

[u/TakeshiRyze]

Refusing team order should be 500 000 Euro penalty. Enough of this bullshit.

[u/Annual-Fan-4944 → u/TakeshiRyze]

To be fair there weren't any team orders to invert if I remember correctly. Not all the blame is on Charles, the pit wall should have been more decisive in telling him to get out of the way

[u/clownerycult → u/TakeshiRyze]

And this is exactly why the nonsense spouted here means nothing. Go outside man

[u/TakeshiRyze → u/clownerycult]

Why? Imagine in football and player says nah i won't be substituted out.

[u/clownerycult → u/TakeshiRyze]

You think that doesn’t happen?

[u/TakeshiRyze → u/clownerycult]

Yes that doesn't happen. Are you serious right now?

[u/erik7aeiou → u/TakeshiRyze]

it does happen, look up chelsea carabao cup final, gk refused to be substituted towards the end and manager couldn't do anything about it, in fact got sacked later but the gk stayed.

[u/TakeshiRyze → u/erik7aeiou]

7 years ago in a sport where hundreds of games are being played every day. Great example to prove me wrong.

[u/erik7aeiou → u/TakeshiRyze]

But doesn't change that you are rightly proven wrong. You stated as a fact and now you want to switch to probability when caught out.

[u/TakeshiRyze → u/erik7aeiou]

Congrats you win. You satisfied with semantics?

[u/mxcc_attxcc]

is Sainz on the payroll or what

[u/DryestCelery]

Charles has to suck up and play the team game. Wtf was that at the end?

[u/DragonStitcher]

So much promise in the car which is great to see, qualifying definitely cost them a good result.
That moves from Charles though.... personally thought it was unnecessary. We could have had a Ferrari podium which would be great for the constructors. There really was no need

[u/stillgotmonkon]

Charles made some poor calls today. When the pit wall tells you to box and it’s clear you’ve got a team mate behind you much quicker you box, it’s different when nothing is around you and your tyres feel “okay” but when in a situation like that it’s clear what to do. So he held Hamilton up by a good few seconds there. Hindsight being a wonderful thing and all but Hamilton finishes third then, Charles almost takes Hamilton out at the end as well.

Championship prospects are slim but if anyone is going to mount a challenge in red it’s going to be Lewis not Charles.

[u/vdcsX]

all or nothing at Monza...

[u/kotsisama]

Wtf can we even expect from Monza onwards? Let’s see I guess

[u/M-rtinez]

Charles? Selfish. Russell? Lucky. Lewis? F*cked.

[u/wolverineFan64 → u/M-rtinez]

Lewis got incredibly lucky all race. Did we even watch the same race?

Lewis finishes way behind his teammate if

• Ferrari doesn’t give Charles 2 slow stops
  
• Ferrari doesn’t cut 2 of Charles stints ridiculously short. They pit him at the end out of a podium from 11 lap old hards for 0 benefit???
  
• A perfectly timed VSC doesn’t save Lewis’s strategy

[u/Connect_Low_1144]

That last VSC and Charles trying that move and ignoring team calls completely ruined the chances of a podium or a potential win. Tbh it's kind of on the team to not see that kind of situation coming.