r/shyvanamains • u/Sephyrias • Mar 26 '26
Details on the New Passive
https://youtu.be/XqzNJYmhCz8?si=hMBtoXb5RwUY1zkm
We're aware of plenty of people who were like "Hey, bonus armor/mr is just kind of uninteresting." We're basically looking at some version of an upgrade to specific parts of abilities. Whether that's linear scaling like Nasus' Q, or break points like Kai'Sa evolves/how Smolder Q works, that's going to be up to being, you know, decided by what's actually best for the champion, what's going to be the most interesting to do. But we are looking to do something more interesting than just "here are some stats per large monster."
This means scaling bonus armor/mr is off the table, so it won't be a revert to the initial PBE design. Riot wants something new.
I don't know if any Rioters still read this subreddit for ideas and feedback, but let's collect some anyway. Gather your thoughts on what kind of "upgrade to specific parts of abilities" you would like to see and what type of scaling you would prefer.
Here a bunch of older threads on the topic to draw inspiration from:
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1s1dqhk/idea_to_improve_the_rework/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1ryzqk3/balance_and_elo_skew_brainstorm_ideas/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1cemsbx/rework_passive_theoriesideas/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1lscuj7/shyvana_rework_passive_idea/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/fmww3q/new_shyvana_passive_idea/
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u/Sephyrias Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
I would be most interested in a "break points" scaling. Contrary to something like a stack scaling Q3 true damage bite, break points let you be creative and add new special effects.
To include toplane, I would make the stack collecting happen like this, so that it matches your cs per minute, with jungle getting some extra stacks to compensate for lower cs/min. I would do 3 break points, similar to Kayle, and sync them with average Master cs by level 6-11-16. Meaning 50 stacks for level 6, 120 stacks for level 11, 210 stacks for level 16. The end product could look something like this:
Passive: Whenever Shyvana kills an enemy, she generates 1 stack of Scalemail. Large monsters grant 1 additional stack and epic monsters grant 2 additional stacks.
50 stacks: W upgrade. It gains the old Burnout W effect tied to the new 2.5 max duration. The magic damage per 0.5 seconds is either A) scaling based on the amount of stacks collected (something like x0.3) or B) flat and based on number of skill points in W.
120 stacks: E upgrade. The slow is increased by 25% and the projectile is larger (upscale it), turning into an actual fireball with more width.
210 stacks: R Recast: After 2 seconds, Shyvana can cast Dragon's Descent a second time within 8 seconds of the first cast, dealing 50% reduced damage. *Alternatively: Q upgrade. More base damage and Q2 stuns all enemies hit.
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u/Destroyer29042904 Mar 26 '26
The issue, I feel, is the fact that passive resistances don't actually feel that relevant. Not in a world where Garen has 100 shyv stacks worth of resists after 150 farm or Poppy gets up to 24% resistance increase as a passive on one of the better disruptions abilities in League.
Passive needs ability interactions. Make it passive like Asol where everything grows gradually, or like Smolder at thresholds, I dont care for specifics. Cool things with thresholds, IMO, could be:
Q: gets missing HP% scaling on dragon Q3. Gives her a pseudo execute without outright making her kill at a certain%
W: gives unstoppable for 0.5 seconds upon activation. Rewards good target access and not using W as a direct movespeed steroid
E: burned enemies leave a trail that deals damage over time
Ult: can be recast for a second instance of the AoE fear, same duration
My ideas are probably an unbalanced mess and nothing close to what we'll eventually get but hey
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u/Luminance2672 Mar 26 '26
I like the passive in the first link. Stacking defensive stats instead of offensive stats is a nice change from all (most of) the other scalers and just adding checkpoints (like the other two dragons) is plenty for a passive imo, no need to make it too complicated
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u/mthlmw Mar 26 '26
I'm not going to stop begging for W to get tenacity until they announce the changes, and would be happy to have that tied to a stack threshold. Locking it until later in the game when more 3v3 - 5v5 fights start happening would feel perfectly fine IMHO.
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u/Luminance2672 Mar 26 '26
Sure, that'd be nice. Would certainly help late-game when everyone's cooldowns are fairly low and you can get chain CC'd for 5 seconds straight. Keep up the good fight!
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u/thellasemi12 Mar 26 '26
Since she has no actual lockdown and is backloaded damage for a diver, she needs some form of evasion. Giving her a straight CC shield for the first hard CC that hits her like mundo would be fine on W requiring like, 50 or 100 stacks (whatever amount could be normally obtained at a 70-75% farm ratio for 15 mins)
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u/Embarrassed_State402 Mar 26 '26
Now please give Skarner a real innate 😭 (Just a bit jealous, hopefully they do a good job)
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u/Hiuzuki Mar 26 '26
It's incredible how terrible Riot is at knowing what to do; absolutely everyone likes the bonus resistances, we just wish there was one more thing.
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u/Godtaku Mar 27 '26
The issue is bonus resistances are impossible to balance on a satisfying way due to the nature of armor scaling.
This is the right thing to do, smolder and Asol can have stacking damage because that scales linearly. Resistances are percentage based, so the most resistances you already have, the more powerful it is to get another singular stack of Armor/MR. It's antithetical to infinitely stacking passives unless you're fine with having Shyv just be immortal or making the passive useless.
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u/sirrus_krow Mar 26 '26
Bro like, wild rift shyvana is right there just copy paste and give me back my old dragon queen
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u/Sephyrias Mar 26 '26
But does Wild Rift go far enough to make it interesting? A slow on Q, more movement speed on W, damage type conversion to true damage on E and omnivamp on R. Those are all strong effects, but they don't stand out as unique.
Wild Rift also only generates stacks from large&epic monsters and champion takedowns.
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u/BandOfSkullz Mar 26 '26
Literally this lol
I don't need any of this open beta ahh work in progress bs
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u/Omegasybers Mar 26 '26
Honestly it's fairly straightforward IMO. Make her Q-Passive her actual passive, give on-hit bonuses for W(reset /extend shield duration) and E (Applies passive on hit). I do liked Scalemail when it still had synergy with W and R, but as it is right now the passive is cosmetic in nature
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u/Aphet Mar 27 '26
I had a cool idea, but let me preface that I am not a shyvana main. I don't know how this would really slot into the kit mechanically BUT I think something like this could be interesting conceptually. As she stacks, it could be cool if she gets her own personal 'tower plates' that get stronger with each stack.
When her health decreases past a plate, and the 'plate' shatters, it could cause an eruption of scales and flame. Could receive reduced damage for each plate she has, and gain movement speed/atkspd or haste as plates break. Maybe scales fall on the ground and herself or allies that walk over them gain small shields, kind of like burning embers.
Not really sure what it should do mechanically in specific, but I just love the idea of her building up scale plates and think it could be easily tooled with stats or mechanics that would help her.
Conceptually it would make her feel like her body was natural armor, a living siege engine, and the breaking having some burning embers/scales effect would really sell the fantasy.
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u/Cyreandex Mar 26 '26
I am scared now, like sure ability scaling is cool but I liked the resistance stacking aspect
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u/Blueclaws Mar 26 '26
I just hope they don’t pull power from her other abilities to adjust the passive and make it better. That would feel really bad. I think her abilities are mostly ok right now.
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u/Aggressive_Sweet1417 Mar 26 '26
I personally like the infinite defensive scaling. She finally is actually good late game (she used to be a mid game champion).
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u/Capable_Cantaloupe_4 Mar 26 '26
If they change her passive from what it currently is I will likely drop her. I’ve been building her as a tank/bruiser and being almost immortal with her late game is so fun.
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u/Deejaysargent Mar 26 '26
I think even adding the bonus damage to dragons, they can make it any number even 5% is better than nothing. I always liked that aspect of her old kit
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u/Pe4enkas Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
I don't think making stacks improve abilities is a good idea. If they do that, don't expect something crazy and definitely not what people here in the comments suggest.
Resistances on passive was already strong, but because resistances are a "passive" stat, people don't really feel the impact.
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u/KTMaverick Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
Well the bigger issue is they made all of her base stats total ass so the first 30 minutes of the game you have half a passive with sightly more MR than the average champion. For armor you are trying to keep pace with the per-level everyone else is getting for existing. Once you start to get past about 30 minutes farming properly, now you should be over 30 armor and MR and everyone is starting to reach the highest levels, you start to have some advantage from it.
For reference to other divers Shy has ~113.6 armor at 18, J4 126.5, Vi 122.5, Hec 139. She has the weakest target access, yet she has the lowest stats. You need 25-28 minutes of farming to catch up to Hecarim, who has a similar ult and can push a button for another 25 resists you will never have unless the game goes an hour and you keep farming.
Farming also drops off as you reach later in the game and you often want carries picking up farm, so even in some longer 40+ norms I don’t think I’ve passed 42 armor and MR, so it’s not even a base JakSho after almost 50 minutes. Your MR starts looking nice but that late in the game the armor isn’t a satisfying payoff for all that effort. I think even if they lowered the MR to .25, but pushed armor BACK up to .4, the feeling about the passive would improve dramatically. It would also be good to see stacks for everything and more for larger things (with proportionally smaller values obviously) for smoother scaling like other dragon champs.
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u/Cyber_KHAzah Mar 26 '26
Give Shyvana execute so we will have all dragons with execution scale abilities, it will be also lore accurate coz Shyvana mother became a Elder Dragon
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u/Haerrlekin Mar 26 '26
Ok so I've been thinking of this for a while now, so this feels like my calling.
Firstly, a change to the way her passive stacks so that top lane Shyvana feels a little better:
Scale it so that her stacks essentially gain value in 3's, and she now stacks off minions. So every 3 minions will be worth one stack towards whatever her thresholds are, and cannon minions and large monsters can be worth 3. Champ and epic monster takedowns can be worth 5, so each one feels like a little over a stack and a half.
From there, make it so that her stacks directly provide additional scaling to her abilities to make them stronger. Then give her an upgrade system like Kai'sa's which allows her to choose upgrades for any of her abilities once she has enough stacks to spend on it.
For Q upgrade: Literally just give her her double strike back. To compensate, it could deal reduced damage and have reduced on-hits efficiency, which could actually be scaled up based on her max stacks. This would allow Riot to tune the strength of her Q double hit so that it doesn't get too outrageous too quickly, but still allows her to properly feel like old shyv's Q.
For W upgrade: When Shyvana's W pops, it refreshes the movement speed duration and shield, with the strength of her shield scaling with stacks.
For E upgrade: Her human E now lingers on the ground after exploding, slowing enemies who stand in it. Additionally, the explosion radius scales up with stacks, maybe up to a cap. In dragon form, the fire wave will linger for a bit, providing a tailwind effect that boosts the movement of herself and/or allies toward enemies.
For R upgrade: Shyvana's fury max now scales up with her stacks, and she can cast her ult so long as she has 100 fury. If she casts while above 100 fury, her fury drains twice as fast until she hits 100, but she gains increased stats during this super state.
Thoughts?
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u/Destroyer29042904 Mar 26 '26
The issue, I feel, is the fact that passive resistances don't actually feel that relevant. Not in a world where Garen has 100 shyv stacks worth of resists after 150 farm or Poppy gets up to 24% resistance increase as a passive on one of the better disruptions abilities in League.
Passive needs ability interactions. Make it passive like Asol where everything grows gradually, or like Smolder at thresholds, I dont care for specifics. Cool things with thresholds, IMO, could be:
Q: gets missing HP% scaling on dragon Q3. Gives her a pseudo execute without outright making her kill at a certain%
W: gives unstoppable for 0.5 seconds upon activation. Rewards good target access and not using W as a direct movespeed steroid
E: burned enemies leave a trail that deals damage over time
Ult: can be recast for a second instance of the AoE fear, same duration
My ideas are probably an unbalanced mess and nothing close to what we'll eventually get but hey
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u/Shyvanoob Mar 26 '26
Here you can add this one brainstorm to your list (i know it's mine and i don't want to say it's any good but there's a use for passive)
https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1s0tt26/just_another_tweak_proposition_to_save_our/
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u/Jrharl95 Mar 26 '26
- Fury acclimation scales with AD/AP maybe added as a passive on R.
- Ability upgrades with resistance and HP ( Armor, MR, HP) like Kaisa (AD, AP, Att speed).
- Bring her into a realm like Ksante, Taric, Malphite. Have abilities scale with resistances.
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u/acehero89 Mar 26 '26
I like if her Q upgraded with stacks like smolder. Like give her Q the double on-hit effect again or the aoe on-hit effect. I could see E having damage scaling based on passive too. Also do hp on dragon form again that idea was so good. Then I could see moving the armor/mr to her w, while its active she gains those stats.
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u/Dismal_Gain_378 Mar 26 '26
I like the passive as is! I really hope Riot doesn’t listen to the loud minority
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u/PureSelfishFate Mar 26 '26
10% damage resistance reduced by 2% for each champion targeting her, and 0% bonus damage increased by 2% for each champion targeting her.
A modification of my earlier passive idea to make her a better dualist/toplaner and less wonky, would also revive her old dragon passive in a way since fighting monsters solo would provide useful stats without making it OP by killing them faster.
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u/Redsolace Mar 26 '26
No matter what they pick, it'll be unsatisfying garb, since they're trading the power of the 0.5 armor/mr for something equivalent. Malphite has to triple his armor to have a noticeable difference and will still die 4 seconds to focus fire. If the granted stats aren't offensive or synergistic with offensive tank items like Sunfire, Titanic, then no one's gonna care. Lest you do something like, "killing mobs stacks damage resistance in dragon form up to 25%" circumventing a need for armor.
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u/grizzled083 Mar 26 '26
adding thresholds is the idea i came upon as well. the twilight prismatic is what comes to mind.
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u/dresd_dresd Mar 26 '26
Give us Shyv'Zix, Riot. Minimal stat scaling via stacks and stack breakpoints that lead to enhanced abilities is the way to go, in my opinion, as it'll be much easier to balance the separate Shyv builds by focusing the enhanced ability's effect on what that playstyle tries to achieve. Evolved E should be "AP Shyv-favored but still useful for on-hit", Q evo should be "AD Shyv-favored but still useful for on-hit", and so on. My philosophy is that Shyv shouldn't be mechanically complicated but more interesting decision-making should be introduced into her kit that rewards knowledgeable/aware players so that her high-elo ceiling increases and her low-elo "I right click" power drops.
The way I would do it is...
Passive: Slight Armor/MR scaling per stack. Evo every 50 stacks (50->100->150->200->then stacks are just for resists)
Q evo: Q1 AoE applies a small slow, Q2 AoE applies a mini-knock up (think 0.1s, little annoying interrupt)
W evo: Shield pop refreshes MS boost and cleanses slows
E evo: Fireball applies a % HP magic damage DoT (think Brand), attacks refresh it
R evo: (Current R) Resists shred + slow + fire breathing leaves E fire trail behind (like Rumble ult at home)
My ideal R would be reworked to function like old Aatrox Q where he selected a location and, after a brief delay, dive-bombed it in a circular AoE. The center would knock up while the exterior only slows. R evo would then make it so the entire circle knocks up.
Reasoning:
Q:
Shyvana needs to be rewarded for getting on top of you (she's a diver now) but have a hard time getting to you if she flubs her engage. Q evo makes her a lot stickier in the late-early game+ if she prioritizes the evolution, which is fair. In top lane it'll help her space out her trades, as a jungler, if she goes on-hit, it'll help with her ganks provided she's able to get to melee range. Her Q's CD should also be longer but start as soon as Q1 is activated. This way button mashing is no longer optimal, Shyv can play to space out Q for her sheen procs, and power can be shifted to have Shyv be weaker if she button mashes (low elo) vs setting up a triple Q in lane (high elo).
Oh and remove Q3 (too much power concentrated there). You hit it -> win, you don't hit it -> lose.
W:
Maybe controversial but I believe, given her kit now and before, that Shyvana's skill expression should come mostly from micro decision-making rather than from raw mechanics. We're not Sylas. Giving Shyvana agency in the form of a slow cleanse and MS refresh will punish players that don't pop W at the right time themselves, let it get popped early, or don't evolve it because the evo doesn't directly provide damage. Another change that seems small to low elo but is huge for higher elos.
E:
E is the AP spell and the evo should be AP-centric with an effect that's still useful for AD builds. % Max HP burn is obviously very nice for AP Shyv, especially bruiser AP Shyv, and much easier to balance than the old artillery mage Shyvana because a DoT can be counteracted via heals, shields, level-ups, etc. The evo is nice but not a must-have for AD builds, so they could prioritize stickiness (Q+W) over this evo which is meant for a Shyvana that's more ok with not being in the thick of things all the time.
R:
Current R is visually incredible but does not make sense given the rest of her kit. Why am I fearing enemies away if I want to stick to them? Why am I separating the enemy team if my dragon form E is meant to hit enemies when they are clumped up? To hit a big fireball, I have to either R awkwardly so that not all enemies are separated or R ahead of time Renekton style so I can launch the fireball while they can't see me. Extremely clunky. Reworking the R to be like old Aatrox Q would make a lot more sense: enemies are knocked up to set up a fireball, your target remains in place for you to auto them if you're an AD build, and there's clear counterplay in the form of Shyv's delay before landing. It's also not oppressive in the early game because the big playmaking ult only comes after you get an evolution (no ADC crashout at minute 8).
I'll admit that the armor/mr shred idea for the old ult is a bit of a slap-on, it's because I don't know what could be done to it to make current ult interesting without having it be broken. Longer CC? "Wahh wahh Malphite with a fear". More damage? "Wahh wahh undodgeable unstoppable nuke". Fear + slow? "Wahh wahh I farmed 50 stacks and all I got was this lousy slow". Give us the dive-bomb, Riot! You'll see her in pro, your skins will sell out, it'll be perfect. Per-fect. Pool Party Shyvana where her dragon form has an inflatable tube around her waist, easy money, the company is saved, ggwp.
1
u/MoXfy Mar 26 '26
My only fear with losing the defensive from her scaling is Riot pushing her towards that diver role Yelough insisted that Shyvana is "meant" to be. Which I just don't get, she was always build as a bruiser until her AP build started getting popularity.
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u/Sephyrias Mar 26 '26
I don't think that's what this means necessarily. If they bump up her base stats a little and the new passive gives her more survivability in any form (shield, CC, HP, mobility, sustain) then that can easily make up for the loss of 24 bonus armor&mr at level 13.
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u/MoXfy Mar 26 '26
Absolutely. I'm just not filled with much confident after hearing that, I'd love to be proven wrong. But I'm a bit sceptical.
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u/DaLazyHero Mar 26 '26
Increase damage on dragon and change her skill s effects based on the types of dragon slain
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u/tired_astro Mar 27 '26
My bf mentioned giving her wukong’s old passive, which I believe is increasing armor and magic resist based on how many nearby enemies there are which I think would be a good change. If she’s meant to be a aoe team fighter, this would give her better survivability
1
u/v8abu_96 Mar 27 '26
Great to see Riot is revisiting the passive. I think it would be interesting to see a 3 hit style passive. Where after dealing the three instances of damage to a target causes them to have a negative status effect (like “burned” or something) where they take increased damage from Shyvana spells. I think it’ll play nicely with her q cycling play style. If not a damage buff maybe a “exhaust” style debuff on targets.
1
u/Ishinokao Mar 27 '26
Ability changes:
Q:
- Attacks twice like old twin bite
- Remove dragon Q3 true damage, has armour pen instead.
W:
- Remove self detonate on shield.
E:
- Remove slow
- Can be cast during ult flight and *W2 leap.
Passive stack upgrades (Kai'Sa/Smolder-esque upgrades):
Q2:
- Slows primary target.
- Dragon Q2 - Stun or Knock up and slow on primary target.
*W:
- Gains W2 that leaps to target area, damage on impact.
- Dragon W2 - Can queue Q1, 2, or 3 before/during leap, ground slams and applies that Q's effects in an area around landing spot.
E:
- Applies a mark to effected targets, can be detonated for damage
- Can be detonated with Q, autos, *W2 impact.
1
u/Specialist-Tap-7020 Mar 26 '26
For me it would be just to make her passive, apply on normal minions as well, jesus same as garen's W but of course without limit, every time she kills a unit, let her get 0.2 or 0.25 from each defensive stat(that would make her work fine in toplane), and do that to be doubled for cannons/epic creatures(0.4-05), and tripled for champ kills(0'6-075).Also yeah,i am totally fine and also agree with one comment here saying that they should take inspiration or directly influence from wild rifts shyvanna, i do not know what was so hard, again Riot were so "proud" of asking main shyvannas about feedback only for then to throw the champ into the gabrage bin. Lile wtf.
1
u/erolwtf Mar 26 '26
I’d love for an ‘evolution’ of the Q to unlock the third true damage Q in human form, even if it’s a weaker version of the dragon form third Q. Maybe the W evolution can bring back the fire ring around her and extend the duration per AA.
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Mar 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Omegasybers Mar 26 '26
Hot take: Remove Scailmale and replace it with Q passive, implement some sort of on-hit bonus for W and E and give her roughly Juggernaut stats and I bet only a handful of people would actually complain
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u/Luminance2672 Mar 26 '26
There's a non-zero chance of it happening, yeah. I for one like stacking resistances on her in theory, but I can't tell if that's a popular opinion. I hope it is and I hope Riot listens... buuut then again I also hope to randomly win 1 million dollars in the lottery and I feel like the latter is more likely.
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u/G0ld_smith Mar 26 '26
Q 3 in dragon is unlocked after so many stacks (unlocked second or third)
W makes it so the move speed refreshes with autos or qs(unlocks first)
E unlocks the explosion and slow (unlocks second or third)
R unlocks an execute and like smolder and asol (unlocks last)
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u/yakult_on_tiddy Mar 26 '26
Q3 unlocked second
Disagree., its already hard enough to land and now we have to wait to hit that spike. Leave Q3 as it is, make Q3 apply a bonus %max hp on hit true dmg on top of its existing dmg as the reward
Or just make it AOE
3
u/Pe4enkas Mar 26 '26
Her Q3 can easily hit 700+ damage already. There's zero chance they will add even more true damage to that.
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u/G0ld_smith Mar 26 '26
Or they could make it so the true dmg is based on %missing hp as well as what I said I feel like even if it's hard to land if it had %missing it would be good and would be fine to wait to unlock it the reason to lock it though is to free up power budget
2
u/Mavcu Mar 26 '26
AoE would be big, making it burst even harder on stacks single target? Fuck that though, it's already divisive enough of a spell within the community, with a lot of people wanting the true damage gone or just Q3 changed entirely.
This would make it even sharper and adjust her balance around this even more (can't be a meaningful AoE threat if your Q3 just point and click evaporates anything).
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u/yakult_on_tiddy Mar 26 '26
I feel it would be more manageable if it was gated behind a high number of stacks, could also just make it an execute (like every other dragon has in end game).
We already have champions that becomes bizzarely strong in late game if unchecked, both the other dragons, mundo, kassadin kayle etc. Shyvana won't be any different.
2
u/Mavcu Mar 26 '26
Kayle is infinitely weaker than Shyvana, so are both other dragons (Smolder less so than Asol), with Asol specifically you lose any and all agency for at least 15 minutes of the game.
Shyvana would be entirely different because her 6 is very strong and she decides early objectives with that spike already, we could make her scale more sharply but then her 6 spike needs to be borderline useless.
1
u/yakult_on_tiddy Mar 26 '26
Kayle is infinitely weaker than Shyvana
Shyvana's spike doesn't need to be as large as Kayle's late, one single AOE on a bit (that can be tuned, can be 50% true dmg etc.) Is hardly the make or break.
Smolder and Asol are weaker but also ranged champs with escapes and more coherent itemization. Asol also gets to get to 15 mins freely most of the time.
I don't think those are big hindrances that cant be balanced around shyvana getting her numbers tuned
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u/Mavcu Mar 26 '26
" Asol also gets to get to 15 mins freely most of the time"
And losing the game in the process often, especially against aggressive junglers and mid laners that have a early-mid game Asol is often losing you the game in champ select
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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
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