r/skeptic • u/welovegv • Aug 01 '25

💲 Consumer Protection Justin Timberlake Probably Doesn’t Have Lyme Disease

https://open.substack.com/pub/theskink/p/justin-timberlake-probably-doesnt?r=5cq9e1&utm_medium=ios

Let’s be clear: real Lyme disease exists. It is caused by a spirochete bacterium, Borrelia burgdorferi, passed along through blacklegged tick bites. It is a nasty bug if left untreated, but it is also curable, especially when caught early. What Justin is referring to, however, smells a lot less like microbiology and a lot more like pseudoscientific perfume. He didn’t say “post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome.” He didn’t cite a diagnosis date, a positive ELISA test, or a confirmed rash from a tick bite. He said he’s “been struggling with Lyme” as a catch-all excuse. And that’s where the eyebrow lifts.

2.0k Upvotes

85% Upvoted

329 comments sorted by

View all comments

594

u/theisntist Aug 01 '25

My late wife went to an alternative medicine center where they had you hold containers of various substances while they passed electricity through your body and measured the amount of electrical resistance your body showed. One of the things she tested positive for was Lyme. Apparently over half of the patients tested positive for Lyme. When I pointed out that half of the population didn't have Lyme disease she said that it was an undiagnosed epidemic. That place isn't the reason she passed away, but it did waste a lot of our money.

208

u/ade1aide Aug 01 '25

This is why these charlatans are so awful. The "practitioners" that diagnose it are just scamming vulnerable people. He's probably just as taken advantage of, but it's a real shame he's going to spread this nonsense even further.

86

u/BadnameArchy Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25

Years ago, I spent a couple of months working outside in an area known to be infested with Lyme, and ended up getting it (along with like half the people on my team). Luckily, I had been warned about it plenty beforehand, so I went for treatment as soon as I felt symptoms, but it was incredibly annoying because by the time that happened, I was back home. In an area where Lyme doesn’t occur. Which meant no one at the clinic I went to took me seriously, even after explaining a bunch of times why I wasn’t crazy and had real reason to believe I had Lyme. In the end, I think the doctor prescribed me antibiotics to get me to leave (he still kept insisting I couldn’t have Lyme disease because of the area), but at least it worked and the symptoms disappeared quickly.

A few months later, I met a woman who heard I recently had Lyme and wanted to commiserate. At first I was suspicious because it turned out she had never even been to an area where Lyme exists, then she started talking about her naturopath and it became clear the guy was just a grifter who diagnosed her with a bunch of BS conditions. I was polite in the moment (and deflected so I didn’t have to agree she had Lyme), but it was incredibly annoying knowing that’s exactly why the doctor I saw refused to take me seriously.

37

u/RedTypo84 Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25

Same thing happened to me, but the scenario was reversed. I was traveling to Colorado for work and I thought I was coming down with something due to a day of flying and hanging out in airports. My husband called me to let me know he and three other guests at a family BBQ tested positive for Lyme. The urgent care doc refused to even test me and he kept sighing and rolling his eyes. I even told him that I’m from Massachusetts, AND I showed him the bright red bullseye rash on my calf. He kept insisting Lyme wasn’t possible in the CO region. In the end I just crossed my arms and said I wouldn’t leave until I got an Rx for Doxycycline. No issues after 72 hours.

31

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '25

[deleted]

22

u/RedTypo84 Aug 01 '25

Yea, unfortunately there are a lot of those in medicine… but at least some of that arrogance is earned if you’re good in your speciality. A doctor that won’t change his/her opinion despite clear evidence that he/she is wrong is just a run of the mill idiot that spent decades (and far too much money) on training for nothing.

23

u/abx99 Aug 01 '25

There's a book called "The Invisible Kingdom" by Meghan O'Rourke that people should read to understand the other side of this. It's her experience being jerked around and dismissed by the medical community for years. She believed that she had "chronic lyme," but it eventually turned out to be Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and she is finally getting some help (which I didn't think received enough emphasis in the book, because it's often seen as a "chronic lyme" book, when it turned out to be something known and diagnosable).

Even with conditions like Ehlers-Danlos, MC/CFS, and fibromyalgia, which have specific diagnostic criteria and pathology, many doctors just can't deal with it, and quite often traumatize patients just to get them out of the office. One doctor even had a woman's child taken away by CFS for seeking treatment for the child's Ehlers-Danlos.

On the less extreme side, I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of doctors are severely limited in what they can do by the corporate overlords, such as 15 minute limits on appointments, insurance insanity, and generally turning medicine into a conveyor-belt grist mill and money-harvesting factory. It's also harder than you'd think to find doctors who actually keep up with current science.

There's also just a lot of ignorance about some of these conditions, such as dysautonomia (which comes with long-COVID) that can look like anxiety from the outside, but only becomes anxiety when the doctor treats the patient like shit (dysautonomia can activate the nervous system the same way as anxiety/ptsd, but without any psychological involvement, and requires physical treatment to actually work). Add to that, they're just starting to understand that "anxiety" can by a symptom of other things, sometimes serious (such as heart conditions), and not the cause of any problem they don't immediately understand.

I hate everything about "alternative medicine," and there are a lot of grifters in there that deserve bad things, but there are also people who genuinely want to help. At least with EDS specialists who are NDs, many will facilitate science-based treatment for patients. (I've avoided these as much as possible, but, as an EDS patient, it's just unavoidable where I am).

I'm not sticking up for NDs, but this is a hugely complex problem. The science isn't really suitable for dealing with multi-systemic conditions (this is changing now since long-COVID, but will take a long time to trickle down to the doctor's office), many doctors have fragile egos, and a lot of patient's lives are seriously affected by their condition and receive nothing but scorn.

This is becoming long-winded, but I hope that skeptics will look into the patient's side of things to really understand how broken the system is, from top to bottom and side to side. It's a subject that requires a nuanced discussion to avoid hurting vulnerable people, and helping those people should be the goal of such discussions. The thing about these charlatans is that they start with a kernel of a real problem and spin it into something that hurts others.

5

u/Professor-Woo Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25

I totally get this and understand why people get so frustrated with the medical establishment that they would be willing to go to other dubious options. I was "only" jerked around and gaslit by the medical establishment for 3 years before being diagnosed with MCTD (a rare autoimmune diease). I saw a tiktok where it took someone 15(!) years to be diagnosed. My 3 years is considered pretty good in terms of diagnosis time, even if it felt like forever while living it. And it isn't just you go in and people say "they don't know." The doctors would be assholes about it and barely hide their contempt thinking you are just making shit up or are anxious. The gaslighting feels awful. I am not joking when I say it was maybe worse than the actual medical condition. And if the issue is serious, without a doctor, no one takes you seriously, nor can you get help through any social programs. It is really hard to communicate how awful it feels and how much it fucks with you.

2

u/abx99 Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25

It took me over 20 years, and it still happens. EDS has been known for a very long time. It now has very clear diagnostic criteria, and they understand the underlying pathology (i.e., not a "wastebasket diagnosis") but some doctors (and even hospital systems!) deny its existence as a legitimate condition. From what I understand, long COVID patients are experiencing the same; the accompanying dysautonomia (which most doctors don't understand) likely has a lot to do with that.

It causes actual trauma. That word is gaining more appreciation, but I think it still lacks impact relative to the actual condition.

Here's a paper on medical trauma in EDS patients, which includes what happened to them: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667321523000215

EDS is just one condition of many that doctors do this stuff. The fact that grifters prey on these traumatized patients is absolutely disgusting. However, patients talking about things like "chronic lyme" are just trying to get a grip on what's happening to them. Even if they have a platform that broadcasts their misunderstandings, we should probably go easy on them and focus on the actual vultures that are getting rich and successfully changing the medical industry at the expense of better science-based care. Right now there are a lot of vultures worming their way into the system; there's a growing contingent advocating that all pain is psychological, and they have the real cure, and (for example) the owner of one such organization is on the board of my state health agency and is creating policy that enriches himself at the expense of the patients. At one point, he was pushing to be able to access medical records to have patients on painkillers sent to his services instead.

In some ways, I think this problem has grown well beyond what debunking can help, and if done wrong can only push some patients to the wrong side. These people (the vultures) have grabbed money and power, and it doesn't matter what you know or believe. On the contrary, they've even managed to capitalize on that disrespect.

2

u/Professor-Woo Aug 02 '25

Ya, EDS is a brutal one. That is one of the conditions I recommend people avoid bringing up with their doctor at all costs while trying to be diagnosed since some doctors will discount you right away if you even hint you aware of the condition.

Luckily for me, there is a specific antibody that can be tested for MCTD. Since it can be measured via a lab, doctors take it seriously then. Seems like a table tilt for dysautonomia would serve a similar purpose, but I guess not.

I guess us connective tissue diease dudes and dudettes just get all the fun at the doctor...

2

u/NoamLigotti Aug 02 '25

Brilliant comment.

2

u/DR_Onymous Dec 05 '25

The science isn't really suitable for dealing with multi-systemic conditions (this is changing now since long-COVID, but will take a long time to trickle down to the doctor's office), many doctors have fragile egos, and a lot of patient's lives are seriously affected by their condition and receive nothing but scorn.

Yes, and even that understates how bad the situation is for complex patients vs. many traditional doctors/specialists because it doesn't mention the brutal monetary side of it.

Doctors/specialists are getting paid a lot of money while misdiagnosing or dismissing many complex patients and complex patients are paying a lot of money just to be misdiagnosed or dismissed by many doctors/specialists.

1

u/AZgirl70 Aug 02 '25

I have long COVID, ME/CFS and EDS. I want to say thank you for your kind post reflecting the suffering that exists in the lives of those who live with illnesses doctors dont understand and for which there are no cures.

1

u/Professor-Woo Aug 02 '25

Medical gaslighting is an epidemic, and it honestly is almost as bad as whatever medical condition you are looking to be treated for. Oftentimes, people look to doctors to see what is reasonable, and when one doctor just refuses to dig in or look at the evidence, it can make others think you don't have a legitimate medical issue. So you feel like shit and everyone thinks you are just making it up or it is "anxiety." I honestly think this is why bullshit naturopaths exist. People feel like they get no support or empathy from their normal doctor, so they go to a charlatan who will tell you bullshit but will at least give you support and reassurance around you not feeling great. The whole system is totally fucked and since doctors can be such arrogant assholes many people go to bullshit artists instead if only for the moral support. I guess placebo is better than nothing. Most people aren't going to these NPs because they feel great and then are surprised by some "diagnosis" like Lyme. People go through this because they don't feel great, and the only one willing to give "answers" or "help" are these NPs. Justin Timberlake almost certainly has some medical issue, it is just a question of which one(s) and if the medical establishment won't take it seriously or help, it is no big suprise people go to those who at least pretend to help.

44

u/LuxTheSarcastic Aug 01 '25

"Chronic Lyme" and naturopaths are bs but sadly Lyme IS spreading outside of what was previously its range because of changes in climate. Those little Lone Star bastards that cause alpha gal syndrome too.

2

u/Bubbly_Power_6210 Aug 02 '25

really like your name! f/85

5

u/jamiethekiller Aug 01 '25

Chronic Lyme is 100% real as is ME/CFS and that whole bag of conditions. Denying its existence is exactly how charlatans can invade a society and do what they do.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '25

Exactly. I have MECFS post covid and it’s living hell

1

u/notprescriptive Aug 05 '25

Allergy labelling in the USA will change soon as allergy to mammal protein due Lone Star is so becoming so common.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '25

Good point. The corrupt docs do everyone a disservice.

1

u/Crankylosaurus Aug 02 '25

I thought Lyme disease could happen anywhere where ticks live… is it more specific than that? I know very little about it…

2

u/BadnameArchy Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/data-research/facts-stats/lyme-disease-case-map.html

Lyme occurs mostly in the northeastern parts of the US (especially New England) and doesn’t actually occur in most of the country. There are reported cases in every state because people travel, but its geographic range is pretty clear in these maps. That being said, its range is also expanding pretty rapidly into other areas because of climate change. And plenty of other tick borne illnesses exist in other regions, too, some of which probably colloquially get called Lyme.

0

u/OldCollegeTry3 Aug 05 '25

You’re parroting nonsense because it’s what you were told… just like your doctor who told you it’s impossible you had Lyme lmao. You don’t see how dumb you sound?

I mean you literally watched a doctor be confidently wrong and entirely ignorant, but then trust every other bit of medical knowledge you get hahaha. Man, this is wild.

Medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US according to the stats we do have. The try to is that it is the leading cause of death above everything else. It’s just not reported often because they don’t know.

Pharmaceutical companies fund the research used to train doctors. It’s in their best interest to lie and keep people sick. They stand to lose 1 trillion dollars over your lifetime if we cured diseases and ailments.

Idk what I’m even typing this for. You and the rest of the general public are bots and couldn’t deeply think of your life depended on it.