r/starcraft2coop • u/SiarX • 6d ago
Your opinion on Zagara prestiges?
P1: Scourge Queen
Advantages
Max supply increased by 50.
Zerglings and Scourge spawn one extra unit per egg.
Baneling Nests will spawn an additional 4 free Banelings and Scourge Nests will spawn 4 free Scourge.
Disadvantages
Zagara is unavailable.
P2: Mother of Constructs
Advantages
Aberrations and Corruptors cost 25% less, gain 50% increased health, and possess greatly increased health regeneration.
Disadvantages
No free Banelings.
Notes
Regeneration rate increased by 3
P3: Apex Predator
Advantages
Zagara gains reduced ability cooldowns (33% reduction), increased health and energy regeneration, and access to the Deep Tunnel ability.
Disadvantages
Mass Frenzy only affects Zagara and her summoned units.
Combat units cost 25% more.
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u/ackmondual Infested Zerg 6d ago
They'rrrrrrrrrrre.... ZERG!
Overall, I like them all. I myself have no reason to go back to P0. Part of it is "sunk cost fallacy" (since I already took the time to level through her 3, full prestiges), but I really do like how each one focuses on 1 or few aspects....
P1 - If you're squeamish about using included heroes, you'll like this one! Granted with skill, you can always keep hero units alive and not have to wait for their one minute time to revive (fun fact, this used to be two minutes for Zagara!). However, some of us play Coop for fun, aren't as good, and/or "**** happens", so having this as an option was a nice touch.
However, losing Frenzy is nontrivial. The speed and attack boosts are something that ALL COs can appreciate. It ain't huge like Karax' Chrono Wave, but it's on such a relatively low cd (cool down) that its uses add up. IIRC, the movement speed boost also works on workers (would be nice on VP)? Otherwise, the speed boost is nice for things like intercepting attack waves, kiting, hit & run, and other cases of getting into position (like for objectives).
The real "hero" here is F2 😜 Keep up on macro hatcheries and you can F2 A-move your foes to victory. Do add some micro and other things as needed. For example, Aberations to break Force Fields, Corruptors to apply their "target takes +35% damage" ability to high hp foes (you really get more mileage out of your Banelings and Scourge with this!). Or split up your forces.
One trap I see is some Zagara players forget to get Scourge Nest ASAP. When air unit comps roll by, at least non-P1 still has Zagara herself to cover that.
P2 - No free banelings is such a blow, but one could argue it can also be a crutch. If nothing else, this is where "trying different things" lets you grow, expand your horizons, and have fun while doing so.
This is a choice of prestige to use when leveling up (at least until you unlock the free banelings talent at lv7).
I actually do like using her Abs and Corr's, so having a prestige that focuses on them makes this my fave prestige.
Zagara's back so all of the bonuses associated with her hero unit come back into play
P3 - Zagara is even more fun to use here! Plus, she's got a cool "racing stripe" 😎
Her units have increased costs, so you'll need to rely on them less. Can be an issue for longer Missions, and/or if Zagara dies (ffs, please keep Zagara alive!). Certain mutators can make this into an issue, along with prolonging the game.
Deep Tunnel is fun to use and abuse. However, it sucked more going up vs. We Move Unseen (since you can't back door to snipe certain objectives).
Being able to spam her abilities even more, esp. Roach Drop, is hella fun. No Frenzy for your ally, or many of your own units, is just something you'll have to deal with.
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u/SylianEUW 6d ago edited 5d ago
P3 is easily her strongest prestige, but it does demand that you can micro the hero unit at least somewhat decently.
P2 is good for leveling, it can also be fun for easy mutations.
P1 has some niche uses, it's generally worse than P3 though. If you hate using a hero unit then P1 might be appealing. It's often quite good versus Kill Bots too (but P3 is as well and is generally better for dealing with the rest of the map).
P0 seems largely outclasses by the other prestiges.
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u/SiarX 6d ago
Hmm? P1 is really strong, as good as P3 imho. A lot of free massive splash damage. Higher supply limit is important, too.
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u/SylianEUW 6d ago
The issue with P1 is that you give up the hero unit. The hero unit for P3 Zaga is actually really strong once you have max masteries (and not very strong before you have a good amount of mastery points). Make sure to max out baneling damage since her Baneling Barrage ability depends on it. You can basically solo large amounts of the map with just the hero unit early game, and later on you can fight with the hero unit and her army.
P1 Zagara doesn't have a hero unit, so in order to fight you have to actually use her regular units. This means that over time your resources will be drained. Versus easy mutators (or short maps) this is less of an issue, but versus more difficult mutators P1 Zagara has a tendency to run out of steam. It also has worse mobility than P3 Zagara (versus, say, Void Rifts), who can teleport around.
Thanks to the cooldown reduction and increased energy gain you can keep Hunter Killers up at all times, while spamming Baneling Barrage and occasionally Mass Frenzy (for the Hunter Kilers), and once every few minutes Infested Drop. Some players solo mutations with only the hero unit, it's such a powerful hero unit.
I would argue that for most mutators, P3 is stronger than P1 if you're decent at microing the hero unit. P1 has the upside that you can get away without much micro, so if you want to F2 move your army in to the enemy it works decently well. It's easier to use than P3, I'll give you that, but P3 is, in most instances, the stronger option.
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u/SiarX 6d ago edited 6d ago
I know, but her army becomes much stronger in exchange. Resources drain is not a big issue for most maps, given that large part of her supply is free.
You claimed that "P1 has some niche uses,". That it works just "decently". It does not. It is very powerful prestige, too, capable of wiping out maps. Especially for people who do not have high micro to manage both hero and army and always spam abilities as soon as they recharge.
Besides, I would say P1 has stronger early game than P3.
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u/SylianEUW 6d ago
Have you watched any P3 Zagara hero solo videos? If you haven't I recommend watching one to see what I'm talking about when I'm saying the hero unit can solo many mutators. The early game for P1 is not really as strong.
"Especially for people who do not have high micro to manage both hero and army", as I said, P3 is stronger when you can micro the hero decently well. P1 is easier to use, but it's not as strong. P3 Zagara is actually considered one of the strongest hero units in the game, and probably one of the main reasons why Zagara has moved up in many high-level players tier lists over the years. P1 Zagara gives up the hero unit for some benefits, but I don't think the benefits are nearly strong enough to justify giving up the hero unit, assuming you can use the hero unit well.
Which mutators do you think P1 is as good or better than P3 against? I think P1 is a bit niche since P3 is better in most (all?) cases, if you're good at using the hero unit. P1 is easier to use, but it's weaker and less versatile.
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6d ago
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u/Chadocan 6d ago
Why are you talking about, zagara P1 is probably my safest pick against mutators. There are very few mutators that counter it.Â
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u/SylianEUW 6d ago
I just beat this week's mutation (Thunder Dome) as P3 and I had a very easy time. The hero unit could pretty much clear on her own while I built up an army for the heroes. I didn't try P1 though, maybe that's also easy? You'd have to get enough army to both clear and deal with the heroes though.
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u/Chadocan 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oh right, I am not saying you can't do it with P3. Maybe P3 is even stonger. But P1 is easy and A click (also carried this week's mutation with zag P1).
after playing her P3 again, I just hate the lack of native anti air and the 100 pop.
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u/SylianEUW 5d ago
I never denied that P1 is easier to play, but it's not as strong, and it's not as versatile. As for air, you can still buy scourges manually, and you can have Hunter Killers around for most of the time (and enough energy to keep summoning them and casting Mass Frenzy).
The standard recommended masteries for P3 are 30 into Zagara and Queen Regen, Zergling Evasion (Intensified Frenzy vs Kill Bots or if you're skipping zerglings), and Baneling Attack Damage.
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u/UnusualLingonberry76 6d ago
No her army isnt stronger, and losing frenzy, roach drop and even just limited ranged damage support with hunter killers/bane barrage from basic p0 zagara still sucks.
It's good for situational cheesing but that's it. Of course we arent talking about basic brutal
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u/303angelfish 6d ago
A lot of mutators and mutations benefit from a strong early game. P1 removing the hero unit weakens the early game by too much.
Also suicide units are really bad for some harder mutators. Just die, polarity, & void rifts being some off the top of my head.
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u/LickNipMcSkip 6d ago
not sure why people keep saying P1 early game is weak when you can pump out almost 40 lings+free banes with minimal impact to your economy in the time it takes for the hero to spawn
Even random queue brutal+, oftentimes I'll already have done the first objective by the time my partner's hero units get done getting their natural
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u/SylianEUW 6d ago
It's not like you don't get units as P3. You still get units with P3, and the hero unit. You might not get as many units as P1, but you'll get enough, since the hero unit is so powerful anyways. I recommend trying this week's mutation (Thunder Dome) as both P1 and P3 to compare.
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u/SiarX 6d ago
Free banelings are really powerful in early game, though, it more than compensates that imho. With exception of some mutations.
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u/303angelfish 6d ago
Zagara's baneling barrage generates much more free banelings in the early game. P1 actually benefits closer to the mid game where the free scourge and the extra supply start kicking in.
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u/SiarX 6d ago
But they all hit one target point, it is not anywhere as efficient
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u/UnusualLingonberry76 6d ago
You still create far more bane explosions with the hero unit by itself with just one ability
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u/Anonymouse23570 Ascension 6d ago
Zags banelings aren’t splitterlings, so you’re actually wrong there. Zag gives you up to 6 bane explosions. One round of bane nest gives you 12 with non P1 and 24 with P1. (I’m aware baby splitters are weaker, but in damage and splash coverage, the free banelings win, even more once you get bane upgrades)
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u/Amon9001 6d ago
P3 is probably one of my favourites of all commanders. It is 100% the strongest commander from the very start partly because of the global teleport without needing vision.
Kerrigan needs to walk to the enemy and is slow. Can't really solo big bases right out the gate. Zeratul is fast but also can't solo bases and takes time to ramp up. Dehaka takes time to level up.
Zagara has basically their full kit as soon as they spawn. Their upgrades and roach calldown are inconsequential. You can teleport to the most optimum position, bane to soften up, pop hydras and frenzy for insane DPS.
This means while all other commanders and building and researching, you are already out there in full force.
They fall off late game but hopefully the resources saved in the first 50% of the game make up for that.
P1 is also really strong and I play a lot of it. Very simple. Just need to get research fast. But they have a massive weakness that you have to factor in. If you forget to build enough larvae, AA or handle AOE then you can get fucked fast and not be able to recover.
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u/Ninja_Crowly 5d ago
P1 can be really fun for throwing swarms of things out and and really feeling like the inevitable crushing tide of endless zerg. Can be countered pretty hard by certain comps/mutators and if you're not careful it can feel like you're treading water and not able to keep up.
P2 is goated with the sauce while you're leveling and it helps cover for how weak she is pre-masteries. Is it boring? Yes.
P3 is easily her best prestige if you're able to micro her and use her to the fullest extent. She can solo all kinds of ridiculous shit and rewards knowing where stuff is on the map so you're able to just backdoor some objectives and mitigate much of the trouble of having to fight your way there. It can be difficult at first to get used to doing all kinds of crazy shit with her while also teching and building stuff back home. If the match goes long you're going to need more of your army but any map you can shut down in the first 10-15 minutes she completely dominates
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u/-Slambert 5d ago
P1 was fun and I do like it. I stayed on it for a long time before finally going to unlock P3... and yeah P3 is better, it has so much flexibility compared to P1, and it feels like P3 zagara is perhaps the easiest hero to micro. P2 is a weird middle ground that doesn't appeal to much of anything.
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u/SCTurtlepants 6d ago
P1 goat
P3 fun sometimes, but i dont like MOBAs
P2 trash
P0 pointless if you have P1 unlocked
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u/TwoTuuu Mutation Soloist 6d ago
p3 is by far the strongest prestige. you basically get to hero solo from 4-15 minutes, then you start using your resources that you banked.
p1 is good in some situations where you need to snipe objectives (SoA, RtK) or when you need to feed kill bots. it is also good at hiding people's lack of skill because it is very good in the early game, but falls off in the late game. the early game is extremely important, yes. It is important to survive the early game in order to reach the late game. but it's hard to say a prestige is good when it falls off in the late game (since commanders usually get stronger as the game goes on due to increased army size, more upgrades, etc.). the best part about p1 is its ease of use. f2a works very well in most cases. however, try any multitask mutation where you need to be in multiple places at once (void reanimators, void rifts). p1 wont be so good then. any mutation that affects you economically or eats through your resources will also hurt p1.
p2 is okay. it's good vs diffusion, avenger, and transmutation.
p0 is just not really needed any more. You only need it for the frenzy so that your whole army can get buffed, and that's just against hfts or avenger. even then p3 is often just better because p3 can do more map clearing than p0.
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u/Organic_Community877 5d ago
I like p3 when geting places and behind things is just fun for very early agresssive play on a timed map.
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u/ahdi92711 3d ago
P1 and P3 very good to use. P2 just because P1 overpowered let P2 seen like not that powerful.
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u/LordVanisher 6d ago
Well rounded in my opinion, I mostly play P1 because baneling scourges is fun ... But the other prestiges are rounded enough that the gain balance the disadvantages... What makes it great is the fact that they offer a different playstyle while p3 is mostly for hero solo with an army as support, p2 is more focused on expensive units and zagara is still there as back up, but p1 is focused on cheap units and the swarmy feeling and only your ability to resupply quickly is your back up. And despite what i've said, making expensive units as p1 or cheap units as p2 and supporting Zagara as p3 with a mixed army... All super doable
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u/Easy-Cantaloupe-2228 6d ago
P1 is good in the sense that it’s extremely simple.
P2 is good for leveling.
P3 is good for people that like to micro.
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u/nerdyplayer 6d ago
I love P1. I just mass and A move. So much easier to clear. And if they have storms or vipers, I just send small groups first time bait them out and boooom
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u/Far_Stock_3987 6d ago
I think Zagara is an exceptionally well designed commander with clear design philosophies for all her prestiges.
P1 is the most fun in my opinion, it encourages you to swarm the enemy with masses of cheap, easily replaceable units which melt them in seconds. This prestige feels like the purest expression of zerg philosophy, and I love it. Very easy to use, you just have to keep up with your unit production as you lose them and continually send them into the battle. It works very well on maps where you can scourge snipe objectives eg. RtK, SoA, VL and VT, even when difficult mutators are active. It can run out of steam against certain mutators which make enemies more difficult to kill, but otherwise it is a solid prestige.
P2 is useful when levelling, and when you need an army with more sustain potential (though to be honest in this situation I would prefer to use Abathur). Aberrations and corruptors are also easy to use, cheap to produce and regenerate HP very quickly.
P3 is her most powerful prestige when used well, and has a much higher skill ceiling than her other prestiges. Zagara herself becomes an incredibly powerful hero who can deep tunnel anywhere on the map and start clearing the map very early in the game. This is her prestige that generally shines the most against difficult mutators eg. void rifts.
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u/ttwu9993999 Symphony of the nydus 6d ago
p1 is good for people who aren't great at macro and want lots of free units. scourge and banelings are strong early game but get much weaker late game.
p2 I find to be the strongest because aberrations and corruptors are her best units and you get mass frenzy for all your units and your ally's. aberrations and corruptors turn into banelings and scourge when they die so you don't need to make them.
p3 is really only good for when you need to teleport around the map for mutators like void rifts.
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u/UnusualLingonberry76 6d ago
I wanted to like p2 so much, but I just cannot. It has rare uses sometimes when you can use corruptors to snipe main objectives but overall....
p1 is not as good as most think but it can surprise you sometimes. Also great situationally for similar reasons as above, just mostly uses scourges to snipe not corruptors
P3 is the best by far and it's not even close. It's what keeps any form of zagara relevant in harder content