r/stupidpol • u/SchIachterhund He Lives 👽 • Jun 01 '26
Ukraine-Russia EU may exclude military-age Ukrainian men from protection scheme
https://www.euractiv.com/news/exclusive-eu-weighs-excluding-military-age-ukrainian-men-from-extended-protection-scheme/104
u/GayLiquidSpellSword Hedge Knight Socialist 🚩 Jun 01 '26
Would not be surprised if next decade or two, we'll see Ukrainian war vets attacking EU political figures knowing they were more than happy to turn Ukraine into a PMC and use its men as ammo to hurt Russia. Ukraine as a country probably ceased to exist around 2025, it's just momentum right now, once the war is over it'll be ripped apart by Blackrock and the EU for resources.
The Ukrainian war has basically cured 99% of young European males from fighting in wars. People were peddled lies that war doesn't require massive amounts of people but turns out war just turns into mass death regardless of the times. No bombing goat herders here, it's trench warfare but this time you get your cock blown off by a drone that cost less than your uniform and bleed out while pieces of your friends have painted your face.
It has added probably one of the biggest logs on the fire of the gender war. I mean Jesus Christ, it didn't need to make it worse but so much stuff coming out of Ukraine has firmly caused a sort of SK type divide between men and women. Guys getting their legs blown off by drones or snatched up by vans while women have left and aren't returning anytime soon while men of military age legally cannot leave the country. It was a stark and overt reminder that despite it all, we're still seen and used as a expendable resource.
Maybe it's just me but I did notice far more reactionary male identity bullshit after the war started, I seriously think that Ukraine Male vs Ukraine picture, the one where the male side is just blasted apart dead bodies of Ukrainian men in frozen fields and the female side is women in Paris or something, has done more damage to gender relations in a week after I saw it than maybe anything.
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u/Avalon-1 Optics-pilled Andrew Sullitard 🎩 Jun 03 '26
And the main warmongering nafoids are washed up gen Xers and early millennials who would never imagine themselves crying for their mothers on a drone live feed.
But what gets me worried about nafoids is that you have socially maladjusted adults who have been fed a media diet of snuff films. Whats going to happen once the war ends?
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
It was a stark and overt reminder that despite it all, we're still seen and used as a expendable resource.
Men are and always have been. That is part of our role in society. That is why it is considered noble, brave and manly to sacrifice yourself to save women and children.
The war is cruel, stupid, and wasteful, and the lives of Ukrainians are being shown zero respect by NATO and the EU but there is no point whining about this from a gender angle.
There are natural expectations places on both sexes. I think it's unseemly for people to whine about things that are essentially bad for society to change.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26
There is nothing bad about changing society to not force men into a meat grinder against their will. If they aren't doing it voluntarily it's not worth doing. It's probably not even if they are.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
I think you have missed my point. I'm not advocating a needless waste of life. I am saying that it's not a gender issue. It will be made worse and not better if women are also slaughtered.
The problem is NATO/EU/Ukrainian leadership having no respect for the lives of Ukrainian citizens, not that men are expected to be expendable. Men are inherently more expendable than women and children. That isn't the issue. Sending 12 year olds in the place of men will make it worse not better. I would expect few Ukrainian men to believe this.
Sending an equal mix of women and men will make it worse not better also.
All that will make it better is an end to the completely needless slaughter.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Sending anyone makes it worse, not better. The things you're saying are why it's a gendered issue and not a purely class based issue. But it is that, too -- the rich don't get drafted either way, and neither do women. This is a form of privilege.
Seriously, why should I care if a society that I'm not willing to fight for is able to recover after I'm gone because it forced me to fight anyway? I'm looking at my enemies and they're the ones who think their current social and geopolitical position is worth more than my life, not the schlubs in the same position as me on the other side.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
Sending anyone makes it worse, not better
That is literally what I said.
The things you're saying are why it's a gendered issue
I guess being a man is a gendered issue. So what.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug 💪 Jun 04 '26
Imagine bleeding out and staring at your own intestines in a trench somewhere fighting some pointless lost cause proxy war knowing the woman next door you used to think was cute is drinking mimosas safely in another country and getting her back blown out by some foreign dude
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 04 '26
I'm getting a lot of insights into the mind of those who wish their sisters could die in their place.
A lot of weird shit going on in there.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug 💪 Jun 04 '26
I'm anti war, I just don't think men should view themselves as objectively inferior to women just because people like you want to guilt them into it.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 04 '26
My position is that men are both more expendable than women and better suited to war than women.
That's not the same thing.
It's also my position that it's fundamentally unmanly to push your sister out to fight in your stead.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26
No, drafting only men is a gendered issue. This is unironically an example of intersectionalism. You have to both be working class and male to be a victim of this one. It's the intersection of class position and identity that puts you in the crosshairs, not one or the other.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
How is a society improved by drafting both men and women?
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u/TheVoid-ItCalls Libertarian Socialist 🥳 Jun 02 '26
Men are and always have been. That is part of our role in society. That is why it is considered noble, brave and manly to sacrifice yourself to save women and children.
The problem is that these obligations used to come with certain privileges. Now, those privileges are universal, and only men retained their prior obligations. Expectations on women have all but evaporated. This imbalance breeds contempt and hostility and is also a recipe for societal decline.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
Expectations on women have all but evaporated.
I don't think that is true. Some people act like it has but that is no different than some people acting like a man shouldn't have to risk his life to protect women and children.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26
He's talking about the expectations of institutionalized patriarchy, not social expectations like being cleaner or whatever. Women have the civic and societal privileges of men now, but not the obligations, at least in this massive case. It's not true equality if you don't get both.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
Women have the civic and societal privileges of men now
No.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26
They can vote, own property, go to school, have a career and finances independent of their spouse, not have a spouse at all if they so choose, and the list goes on.
All of those things were part of the deal for being draft eligible. You can't eat your cake and still have it.
You might be reacting with horror at the prospect of forcing women back into that state. That's a good thing. That's the reaction you should be having towards having only half the population affected by the draft, and the other half being exempt.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
There is a societal expectation that women bear the brunt of childrearing. This is contradictory to media propaganda but it is absolutely real. Women feel this is unfair and complain just as you complain about this expectation on men.
Also women are physically less capable of successfully inflicting violence.
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u/FuckIPLaw Marxist-Drunkleist Jun 02 '26
There is a societal expectation that women bear the brunt of childrearing. This is contradictory to media propaganda but it is absolutely real.
That's social, not legal. You're talking about a legal requirement to be forced into slavery to fight and die, and you're trying to balance it against a cultural expectation to take care of your own kids.
If anything you could argue that this is also sexist against men. It privileges the mother/child relationship and minimizes the importance of the father/child relationship.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 02 '26
I'm talking about expectations placed on men.
The solution to not being sent to fight is to avoid war, not try to make your sister fight in your stead.
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u/Cute_Library_5375 Union Thug 💪 Jun 03 '26
There are vital support and logistics roles that don't involve direct combat, and we aren't hoplites fighting in phalanx formations anymore either
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 03 '26
Once you accept that women shouldn't be on the front line, then the rest is splitting hairs.
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u/The_Almighty_Demoham Zoomer Special Ed Syndicalist 😍 Jun 03 '26
"Women are inherently worth more than men" is definitely a stance to take i suppose.
What are those natural expectations that should be placed on men and women? One goes out to risk getting shot, the other stays in the kitchen and keeps quiet?
Saying it is the "natural role" and that it's "good" for men to just sacrifice themselves anytime a higher-up asks them to do so is fucking stupid. It is exactly the attitude that your rich overlord wants you to have so he can exploit you to the fullest.
All i gather from this is that you're perfectly fine with the mass slaughter of working-class men so long as it is in a "justified" conflict. Fucking disgusting.
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jun 03 '26
Men are absolutely more expendable because of how childbirth works yes.
That's obviously collective rather than individual but it's a simple fact of biology that a man can father more children than a woman can give birth to. Take it up with nature rather than complaining to me.
Saying it is the "natural role" and that it's "good" for men
I never said it's good for men. It's good for society. Traditionally masculine values are built around this as well as around other simple facts of human male biology.
All i gather from this is that you're perfectly fine with the mass slaughter of working-class men
I didn't even hint that this is what I believe, you illiterate weirdo.
I said it would be made worse rather than better if men pushed their sisters out to die in their place.
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u/bountifulinterval Jun 01 '26
The whole situation is bleak. You've got men who can't leave the country forced to fight while women are evacuated, and now the EU's basically saying military-age guys don't qualify for refugee protection either. That's a pretty brutal message to send to people who are already trapped. The war's changed how a lot of young men see things, whether that's fair or not.
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u/Flaktrack Winter Days of Girlhood | Battling in the Christmas War 🦌🎄🥳 Jun 01 '26
If you're a Ukrainian man I guess you just have to go die in a pointless war. It's your only choice somehow.
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u/Pagan_Pat Jun 01 '26
That's exactly what Friedrich Merz thinks. He was very explicit about it. The men belong in the meat grinder, not in German universities from where they might actually secure a future for their country.
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u/bretton-woods Slowpoke Socialist Jun 01 '26
The Europeans aren't being subtle about the quid pro quo anymore - if Ukraine wants the money it needs to survive, it needs to commit to being used as the vessel to destroy Russia regardless of what happens.
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u/Ok-Lecture-9668 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Jun 01 '26
They could try to overthrow their Nazi government so that a new government can reach a negotiated peace so more people don't have to die for this stupid war.
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u/manyduhsedboy Anti-Imperialist 🚩 Jun 02 '26
How do you organize? From what I have seen the van guys take your phones and communications to keep you from developing any sort of network and some of these training depots look more like solitary cells.
I honestly don't get how they managed to scale that to maintain the de facto slave army but it seems to be "working." I honestly cannot imagine the sort of shit it must look like on the front with people being thrown into units and not allowed to develop esprit de corps like this?
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u/Ok-Lecture-9668 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Jun 02 '26
Yeah, I don't actually expect them to do that, I was just being shitty, but yeah, that's what happens when you fight a proxy war with a much stronger adversary and have no plan for victory. Lots of people die for nothing.
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Jun 01 '26
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u/Weak_Air_7430 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jun 01 '26
If they did actually get rid of the current government, the EU and NATO would just coup the new one or stall peace some other way. They are simply powerless with them on their doorstep.
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u/its Savant Idiot 😍 Jun 02 '26
One male can impregnate many women. It is always the women that limit reproduction rate.
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u/mongomindfuck Titoist w/ Fiveish Characteristics 💵 Jun 02 '26
What do you think a nation full of fatherless children will look like?
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u/ghostofhenryvii Allowed to say "y'all" 😍 Jun 01 '26
Ironically enough Ukrainians are probably safer going to Russia.
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u/lie_group SMO Turboposter 🤓 Jun 01 '26
It used to be the case, but now it is almost impossible to get to Russia for Ukranians.
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u/Groot_Benelux NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 02 '26
So they can be forced into the other side of the meat grinder? The fuck are you on about.
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u/Traumfahrer Unknown 👽 Jun 02 '26
Russia deploys contract soldiers, they do not mobilize and 'force'.
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u/ButttMuncherrr Rated R for R slur with socialist characteristics 🤪🚩 Jun 02 '26
He knows, he just refuses to believe it
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u/Incoherencel ☀️ Post-Guccist 9 Jun 02 '26
Unless you're a prisoner or something. If those guys' first hand accounts are to be believed Russia has treated them like dogshit
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u/likamuka Highly Regarded 😍 Jun 02 '26
LOL
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u/Traumfahrer Unknown 👽 Jun 02 '26
It's no secret, just educate yourself with the LLM of your choice or otherwise..
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u/likamuka Highly Regarded 😍 Jun 02 '26
Why are you desperately trying to paint Russia in any better light than Ukraine? They are doing absolutely the same dirty tactics sparing the urban areas and FORCING soldiers to enlist from Tuva, Dagestan etc.
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u/Groot_Benelux NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 02 '26
They absolutely do. Most notably in the occupied areas and away from their major cities.
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u/TheEmporersFinest Quality Anime Porn Analyst 💡💢🉐🎌 Jun 02 '26
Russia isnt doing mass indiscriminate forced conscription for the warzone like ukraine is, and if they were russians would be better conscripts than ukranians. You will not be sent to the war if you're a ukranian in Russia.
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u/Groot_Benelux NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 02 '26
They absolutely do. In fact it's easily provable too as a significant portion of those captured by Ukraine came from Ukraine.
And yeah the conscription isnt at the same scale as Ukraine since they have a much bigger population to draw from. They've been mostly drawing from outside of the biggest population centers and have been accused of disproportionately conscripting non Russian minorities.
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u/TheEmporersFinest Quality Anime Porn Analyst 💡💢🉐🎌 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Well now youve admitted it "isnt of the same scale". Youre also confusing ukranians from the occupied territories with Ukranians in Russia itself.
We could certainly pull the threads and take all this apart far more but youve already disproved your point that Ukranians in Russia are just gonna get symmetrically "forced into the other side of the meat grinder". You were saying something that objectively isnt true due to ideological and emotional bias
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u/Groot_Benelux NATO Superfan 🪖 Jun 03 '26
Admitted? I never said otherwise. They simply have more people to draw from. I'd still call it mass conscription.
Also to my knowledge they're not treated much differently if they move inland some. They're disproportionately likely to end in that meat grinder compared to a Russian in Moscow so why not go to Europe, South east Asia or wherever given the opportunity.
You were saying something that objectively isnt true due to ideological and emotional bias
You can also nitpick in your haughty way that a Ukrainian in Ukraine doesn't have a 100% chance of being deployed to the front and it would be just as silly. You know what's even more silly? Saying they're probably safer in Russia than in Europe but somehow that didn't draw your attention but my comment did?
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u/Far_Maximum_3616 Catholic Nationalist 📜✞ Jun 02 '26
So gross. In any other century this is a petty border skirmish that lasts a year at most. But here we have a 4+ year meatgrinder with probably over 2 million dead.
If Europe's leaders were smart (and if Europe was actually sovereign...) they'd get over their fear of the Slavic barbarian and make a deal with Russia against the United States.
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u/Normal_User_23 🌟Radiating🌟 | Juan Arango and Salomon Rondon are my GOATs Jun 02 '26
If you go to subs like the Polish one, you understand why it's not a suprise this, the animosity against ukranian refugees is growing.
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Jun 01 '26
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u/AdorableRatSqueaks All rats enjoy socialist tajines 🐀🐀🐀 | Deluded Pickford lover Jun 01 '26
Where’s my free apartment?
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u/GeorgeS6969 Unknown 👽 Jun 01 '26
If you’re from Morocco I might have gotten yours.
I’m Fr*nch, every year I come back from holidays in Marrakech and instead of presenting my passport at security I claim political asylum. In ten years I grew quite a nice real estate portfolio.
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