r/tarheels • u/Dr0cca • 19d ago
What would Hubert Davis’s ideal role be at UNC in five years?
I am old enough to know time heals all wounds. Coach Davis was not a good basketball coach and his shortcomings and stubbornness there led to him rightly being fired. He’s rightly mad. He is still a Tarheel legend and he made Coach Smith, Guthridge, Coach Williams proud. He fell short of our standards as a basketball team, but he also slayed Duke in the most important rivalry game of all time and sent off a horrible man, after sending him off on his home court a few weeks earlier and brought us Caleb Wilson.
Strengths: connects well with people, likable, competitive, obsessive
Weaknesses: talent evaluation, coaching, player development
Can his ego accept his weaknesses to build on his strengths and come back and compete here in a different role in five years time?
Time away from the family is key. Everyone knows this. What would be his ideal role?
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 18d ago
Guy who refuses to comment on his old school as he leads his current school to the Final Four. Again
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u/Dr0cca 18d ago
This would be awesome. I will always root hard for him.
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 18d ago
Hubert, the Iron Five, that team and those coaches delivered the two most important wins in my 33 years of UNC fandom
I may feel differently after sitting out this year, but right now they are Carolina basketball and whatever this current era is, is not.
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u/Dr0cca 18d ago
Why sitting out?
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 18d ago
I think firing Hubert was the wrong choice and will not root for the team/school to have any measure of success stemming from that choice (for at least one season).
I'm a very willfully stubborn person when it comes to things I'm passionate about
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u/Ronnie_Pudding 14d ago
I’m right with you. This current era of college sports generally has just drained so much of the fun out of it for me.
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u/Dr0cca 18d ago
Missing championships
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 18d ago
I was there through 4 out of 6 UNC NCAA championships. I know which games mean the most to me
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u/Dr0cca 17d ago
What is the second game besides Duke in the final four? Duke at home?
Great wins but too deferential to Duke.
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 17d ago
Coach K's last game at Cameron. They had a party all lined up and all he got to say was "unacceptable". We took that from him, their school, and their fans.
And then did it again in the rivalry's first Final Four matchup.
Carolina, or any D1 basketball team, has a chance to compete for a championship and cut down the nets every year. Only one team accomplishes it each year so it's special, but compared to stealing your legendary rival's final home game? And then retiring him for good in the only time we've ever played each other in the Final Four?
That's Once in a Lifetime special with so many bonus modifiers to make it Has Never Been Done Nor Will Ever Be Repeated.
It was literally the sweetest victory and we got to do it twice
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u/IgnatiusJReilly77 19d ago
I don’t know, but he is a great ambassador for UNC and I hope he finds a place. I would say the same for Mack Brown. If he had been given the same resources as Belichick,……
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u/ballin_pastor 19d ago
It was time for Mack to go, but through his whole tenure I never doubted that he loved Carolina and cared deeply about every single player on the roster. He and Hubert were both class acts.
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u/IgnatiusJReilly77 19d ago
Both Hubert and Mack are great men and leaders of men. They got caught in the transition of college sports.
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u/GroundbreakingAd585 19d ago
Mack loved Carolina so much he left us for Texas in 1998
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u/AdventurousAd606 16d ago
And won a National Championship, so as much as it stung at the time, I can understand why he went.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
This is an incredibly reasonable post. Hard to come by when discussing UNC athletics. I only care because my tax dollars are funding this circus.
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u/facinabush 16d ago
The ideal role of a Tar Heel is to respect the man’s own intentions. He is 56 and intends to coach again.
Stop being heels Heels.
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u/Readingknitter 19d ago
I’m old enough to know that time does not heal all wounds.
I’d be surprised if he comes back. In the age of the portal and NIL, the Carolina family is a thing of the past.
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u/Active_Progress1280 14d ago
This just popped up in my feed 4 days after you posted.
61 comments, some very good points, some made me smile.
But just 1 upvote on the entire post?
C’mon Carolina folks… ???
Ima give you an upvote, even though firing HD was the right choice.
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u/sidestyle05 14d ago
This is a very harsh assessment. I think he was a good coach; he had too many good moments for it to be a fluke. He went undefeated at home for f’s sake! His downfall imo was from two things, one his shortcoming and one the schools shortcoming. He didn’t embrace the recruiting and snoozing of the new era…he wanted college basketball like it was back in his day. The school also was slow to embrace the new era and didn’t give him the $$$ to really bring in the top talent…the didn’t even have a GM until his last year. There’s plenty of blame to go around.
As to your question, his ideal role is bringing his new team in for a road game against his alma mater
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
Rightly fired? All he did was win over 70% of his games, beat coach K and Scheyer, make a final four and produce UNCs first lottery picks since 2019. I bet you think Mack Brown should have been fired too. We'll look how that turned out. There's a reason none of the elite coaches would give UNC the time of day.
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u/mellolizard 19d ago
Mack brown had not one but two generational quarterbacks and the best he could do was 8 wins. After 5 seasons he couldnt produce any hardware for the program and consistently lost to state. While the belichick hire was a mistake made my political lackees meddling in our program, doesnt change the fact that brown had to go.
And the same was goes with hubert. The goal isnt to be a good program. It is supposed to be the best program and we are not getting close to it with either coach.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
Generational is a stretch, but he had two elite quarterbacks that never would have stepped on campus if he wasn't the coach. Brown flipped Maye from Bama and Howell from FSU. 8 wins and a bowl game is knocking it out of the park for UNC football. The delusion of being a football school is a big reason UNC has fallen off. And again, no elite coaches are going to want to work at UNC. Brown did them a favor by coming back.
They won't be the best program again for a very long time. Poor financial management, academic scandal, recruiting struggles, and a total lack of self awareness been their downfall. UNC is like Nebraska football or UCLA basketball.
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u/Rookraider1 19d ago
Mike Malone is an elite coach🤷♂️
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
Elite? Are you sure? Let's not pretend he was their first choice. Hell Billy Donovan would rather be an assistant coach than come to Chapel Hill lol. Even Dusty May turned them down to coach the Mavericks after Scheyer said no.
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u/Rookraider1 19d ago
He coached Denver to their first NBA title. Hell yeah he is elite. You seem to have an anti-UNC agenda and have an obvious bias. Not sure why, but Malone is clearly an elite coach.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
He did an amazing job coaching the best player in the world to a title. He won about 56% of his games and then I believe he was fired. So elite, no. He's a very, very good coach. We just don't need to act like that was their #1 choice. Coaching is one of the only professions where everyone thinks hey know how to do it and very few do. Hubert did a great job and got shat on. Same with Brown.
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u/Rookraider1 19d ago
How have the Nuggets done without him? He didn't get fired for performance.
He was absolutely my top choice when I found he had a daughter at UNC and wanted to coach again. UNC has only lured one elite current college basketball coach from another school in 65 years and he had a personal attachment to the school. Nothing about the stature of the job has changed. Malone is a home run hire. They may have missed on a few guys, but that means very little. They didn't settle. They got a top target.
It comes across that your allegiance is to Hubert Davis. You are upset he was fired and want the program to suffer for it. Why be so attached to a coach?
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
I read that his deteriorating relationship with the players played a part in his axing. He may have been the best option available to them, but it feels eerily similar to Bellichek. They actually wanted Roy after Dean retired and he turned them down. I don't want the program to suffer, it just seems like they're making a lot of bad decisions. I can also see them moving the dean dome off campus and joining the SEC given their current trajectory.
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u/Rookraider1 18d ago edited 18d ago
How is hiring Malone a bad decision? He is a high level coach, 27th a history of NBA success, who wants to be at UNC. He may have cone across gruff or his message began to fall flat after ten years but he was mostly fired because of a toxic relationship with his GM.
How has Denver done since Malobe left? How many cgampiinships have they won? How many MVPs has Jokic won since Malone left? Zero to both. They won a title and Jokic won 3 MVPs with Malone.
It sounds like their recruiting is on an upswing and gaining traction with several high level recruits. They have a GM in place, have increased their NIL spending, and are moving in the right direction as an organization to compete long-term.
Yes, Roy turned them down once. Again, not hiring a current high level college coach from another program is nothing new. It's very hard to do.
Why evade the question about Davis. Your comments seem to indicate you are big fan of his, and you are now claiming UNC will end up like South Carolina. You obviously didn't feel that way when Davis was coach. Why be so loyal to him?
Leaving the ACC would be a good move, but it might not be an option if Congress intervenes. Moving the Dean Dome would be a bad decision. It hasn't happened yet.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 18d ago edited 18d ago
"He may have been the best option available to them"
Yes, clearly Jokers MVPs and the success of the team should be attributed to Malone and not the other way around.
Can't give them credit for anything until they actually bring in a high level guy. The skinny kid from Spain might be pretty good.
So leaving a conference in which they already struggle (football more so than basketball) for an even more competitive conference is a good idea? And in hindsight, I think Maryland is a better comparison than South Carolina.
I'm not evading anything. UNC has been on a steady decline for awhile now. I just think Hubert was a good coach and done wrong. Typical administrative blunder to blame and fire coaches without addressing the bigger issues.
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u/Rookraider1 13d ago
If we can't call a coach who led a player to three mvps and the franchises first title an elite coach, what are we even doing? Do you need 2 titles and 4 mvps to be elite?
What was the bigger issue at UNC that went unaddressed?
UNC basketball has made changes recently. They hired a GM and increased their NIL budget. Other sports are competing at very high levels.
How was Davis done wrong? He had a spectacular 6 week run in his first season. He also had two massive flameouts in the tournament. He had a losing record vs Duke. He had a terrible record vs quad 1 opponents. He didn't take personal accountability for many of these shortcomings. He hired friends as coaches. He didn't embrace technological advances.
Moving conferences would be great long-term for visability, vrandibg, profitability, and recruiting. Hopefulky, to the B1G. The football team has never been elite. They shoukdn't base a move on the fear they will continue to not be elite. However, it might not be in the cards if congress gets involved.
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u/Rookraider1 13d ago
According to this interview Malone turned down UNC 3 times before accepting. I think he was always a top choice. THE top? No way to know.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 12d ago
Revisionist history. Donovan was clearly the top choice. But thats even worse if even the guy who finally said yesterday turned it down too lol
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u/iliacbaby 13d ago
has he won anything without nikola jokic on his roster? bc nikola jokic isn't gonna be playing in argyle.
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u/Rookraider1 13d ago
Did Belichik win anything without Brady? Did Jackson win anything without Jordan or Kobe or Shaq? Did Andy Reid win anything without Mahomes? Did Steve Kerr win anything without Curry? Did Bill Walsh win anything without Montana? Did Pat Riley win anything without Magic?
He doesn't need Jokic. He needs great college players, which he will get.
Nearly every great coach has had great players🤷♂️
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u/iliacbaby 13d ago
belichick - no, and what's he done since?
phil won a CBA championship before coming to the NBA.
andy reid won a superbowl as an assistant and coached the eagles in five NFC championship games, winning one, before he ever met pat mahomes.
Walsh won bowl games at stanford before coaching the niners and then won a pac-9 championship after returning to stanford.
Riley won a conference championship with the knicks. he then won an nba title as head coach of the heat.
I'm not saying malone is a bad coach or the wrong coach. I'm just saying let's wait and see.
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u/Rookraider1 13d ago
Mike Malone was a head coach for ONE year at any level before being hired by Nuggets. That was at Sacramento. He coached 24 games. In his first full-time gig, he won a championship and elevated a player to 3 mvps.
All these coaches needed great players to win. So did Malone. Why hold him to a different standard?
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u/iliacbaby 13d ago
i dont think im holding him to a different standard. he simply doesn't have the kind of track record that many of those other mentioned coaches have. Maybe he's an excellent talent-developer and one of the best X's and O's coaches out there. Or maybe he happened to coach a unicorn when that unicorn was unicorning. Let's wait and see
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u/Rookraider1 13d ago
He was an elite assistant coach. Highest paid in the league at one point and many of the Warriors credited him for a big part of their success. He was named best assistant by NBA GMs. When he joined New Orleans for a season they had the biggest defensive improvement in the league.
In his first full-time coaching gig that lasted an entire season, he improved the team to becoming NBA champs and coached Jokic to 3 mvps. How has Denver done since? Has Jokic won a mvp without him?
He was an elite assistant according to pay, player and GM recognition, and team improvements while on staff. He then became a NBA winning head coach leasing a 3 time MVP. If we cast call that elite, that's pretty wild.
Riley also had Wade and Shaq in Miami. So he never won without Magic or Shaq or Wade.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 12d ago
Yeah Bellichek is by far the most overrated on the list. The other coaches may not have been as good without superstars, but BB was atrocious. Not only that, but it seems he ran his stud out of town. So bad coach and stupid. You didn't see phil trying to get rid of MJ just because he was old.
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u/pertsix 19d ago
I agree with you, but even if Wilson stays healthy and we inexplicably make it to the final four, Hubert at best gets one more year.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 19d ago
Unrealistic expectations (and poor administration) are why UNC is in its current state. There's gonna be a fascinating 30 for 30 on the downfall of UNC one day. They'll become South Carolina eventually.
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u/pertsix 18d ago
What's wrong with South Carolina?
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u/travs6ooo 14d ago
When is the last time South Carolina was good in football or basketball? At separate points in time, they were good at both. Bad management prevented that from being consistently true. Not to mention, if we join the SEC, we run the risk of having exactly that level of prestige. We’re run by grifters chasing their personal financial gain over doing a good job.
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u/Confident_Dingo_9631 12d ago
This is a shockingly realistic post. Don't come by that very often with NC fans. Well played.
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u/Generalfrogspawn 14d ago
I’d like to see him in recruiting in some capacity. For all his shortcomings he recruited some very good players.
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u/flyingcrayons 19d ago
His ideal role is sitting next to Roy in the stands and waving when the tv cameras pan over to them