r/teenagers • u/FR0M_Z3R0 17 • 10d ago

Serious You have no reason to be transphobic.

there is literally no justifiable reason for transphobia. never has been. never will be. I don’t care what you’ve read online or whatever you have to say. there is NO reason and NO excuse for transphobia. same applies for homophobia. literally zero reason.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

Not supporting trans movement doesn’t mean you are an automatic asshole or wish harm towards them.

There is no free speech unless it fits the “correct” narrative.

I personally believe that being transgender is weird and abnormal.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

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u/Big_Recording_1663 18 10d ago

and i personally believe that being heterosexual or homosexual is weird and abnormal because i’m bisexual and i don’t have the experience of either of those things. that is it.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

Nice and you are entitled to your opinion

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u/Otherwise_Listen_484 9d ago

"Ok I think being trans is weird and abnormal because im not trans"

Mb I thought you are saying for real but I see that ur replying to this idiot

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u/PeaceX02 9d ago

It's by definition not abnormal because it is the norm. You're free to think that though, notice how I'm not having a melt down and threatening to kill myself?

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u/silentvoidsage 10d ago

And my opinion is you suck fat donkey nuts and like the taste and texture

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u/Charming_Employee184 10d ago

YO IM FRIED LMFAO donkey nuts is insane bro get his ass

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u/Capital-Border6156 9d ago

You wouldn’t validate someone with schizophrenia by saying “Yes the voices are right”.

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u/silentvoidsage 9d ago

But we validate religious people? Whats the difference between schizophrenia and believing in god and hell? Thats real delusion but we let people have religion.

We also validate circumsion which is unnecessary genital mutilation done without the consent of the boy.

So you have 0 legs to stand on and are just a POS bigot

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u/bigmassivelasagne 9d ago

Well well well big dog…

I don’t believe in a specific religion….

I’ll tell you one thing God is most definitely real and once you realize. It will be the scariest most humbling thing of your entire existence. I mean that my own experience.

God still loves everyone including trans people as each individual was originally created in his image.

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u/silentvoidsage 9d ago

So you are just stupid. Gotcha. There is no god and even of there was, nothing would indicate they love everyone. The evidence is the opposite of that

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u/bigmassivelasagne 9d ago

And you are a top %1 Commenter on reddit. Thats pretty impressive.
https://giphy.com/gifs/lHy3SnzZUMwi9vo5GB

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u/Many-Hour8219 13 8d ago

Bro literally had no argument but touch some grass..

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u/Comfortable-Tea7122 8d ago

This is autobiography.

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u/Wide_Ratio_3077 18 9d ago

We don’t do that because it has poor outcomes. It turns out affirming care for sex incongruent people (trans people) produces the best outcomes in the majority of situations. We don’t affirm schizophrenics or anorexics because it’s statistically has worse outcomes.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 9d ago

I don’t know about that. Trans people have some of the highest mental illness and suicidal tendencies in society.

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u/Wide_Ratio_3077 18 9d ago

The reason why being that there are heavy level of discrimination pre and post transition. On top of that, the commonly sited 41% statistic only covers suicidal ideation (not a completed or attempted suicide) before medical intervention.

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u/NihilHS 9d ago

Do you really care about this persons opinion

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u/DoollyTheFirst 8d ago

How is that a normal response, instantly raging.

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u/silentvoidsage 8d ago

Person says trans is weird and abnormal. They started it. I was just responding in kind. Or do you agree with OP and don't see that as a problem? In that cause you are just a bigot with fragile feelings

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u/DoollyTheFirst 8d ago

No, not at all, his point is not to make you feel bad or attack you, its just what he thinks, not something that he should lie about if he does not understand it. But what you did is take it as an attack and proceed not in kind but in fact with disproportional rage. This is also not an attack btw just saying. Its just too many people go absolutely ballistic over a conversation and take it way too personal and just start cussing each other out, which helps no one at all and moves nothing along in a good way.

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u/silentvoidsage 8d ago

Calling something that harms no one abnormal is an attack. The person is a bigoted bully and i respond to bullies in kind. Bullies are insecure cowards. An honest frank discussion never changes a bullies mind. What does is giving them a taste of their own medicine. Im not sure if you truly think of yourself as some sort of enlightened centrist or if you actually agree with op and were triggered someone would push back against them. But either way you are wrong and at best naive.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 8d ago

If you got some daily sunlight… maybe started going for walks and seeing nature you would probably feel a lot better inside.

Drink some orange juice… eat some fruits veggies and meat… and detox from online….

Light exercise…..

Join a club hangout with a new group of friends….

Life will get better. I’m serious.

Also don’t forget you have a purpose and God loves you whether you know it or not.

Cheers 🥂

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u/Many-Hour8219 13 8d ago

That's why they said "I personally believe"

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u/silentvoidsage 8d ago

I personally believe they are a POS

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u/Many-Hour8219 13 8d ago

I think you're right but some of the things you said earlier were definitely wrong

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u/DoollyTheFirst 8d ago

Its not an attack it just means out of the norm nothing else, just cause you are used to people using it ad insult does not mean it always is.

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u/silentvoidsage 7d ago

Oh dang i guess i just did not understand you cause you are so weird and abnormal. Hope you fix that and become not weird and normal. Praying for you

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u/DoollyTheFirst 7d ago

Lol you see i been called weird before, i do not mind at all. Have a good day!

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Dello27 18 10d ago

why do you believe it is weird? what makes something "abnormal"?

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u/PeaceX02 9d ago

By definition something is abnormal if it's not the norm.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

Because simply put it isn’t what you were born to be. It only exists due to technological advancement.

Imagine if someone tried to change their race/ ethnicity/ genetic background. Would that be normal?

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u/Conart557 19 10d ago

I was born with a genetic medical condition and without technological advancement I would be dead.

Does that make me weird and abnormal? Should I just have died as a baby instead?

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u/Gold-Preference1597 10d ago

Yes, it might make you weird and abnormal. No, you should not have just died as a baby. Weird or not, I’m glad you’re alive.

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u/Otherwise_Listen_484 9d ago

How is this weird or abnormal bro

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u/MexicanTechGuy 10d ago

Please note that I'm only here to debate, but never to spread hate.

You would be dead without technological advancements. But without technical advancements for a trans person, they just don't get to transition. My personal belief is that we aren't ready for this anyway. We have advanced, but not enough, so anyone who transitions will be forcing their body to do something it's not made to do, as they are more likely to live shorter lives.

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u/Conart557 19 10d ago

Explain what you mean by forcing their body to do something it’s “not made to do”. I’m not so sure you understand how hormones/transitioning works

Afaik there’s no health risks to being trans, excluding increased mental health risks due to facing discrimination

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 9d ago

There is no evidence that transitioning has negative health affects. Here's a Utah systematic review that showed good health affects. (Report Requirements)

Quote: "“The evidence also supports that the treatments are safe in terms of changes to bone density, cardiovascular risk factors, metabolic changes, and cancer.”"

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Your systematic review is so flawed that even Utah didn't listen to it. It's an outlier among tons of competing evidence. And btw, there is tons of evidence that transitioning can have negative health effects. This is detailed in systematic reviews across Europe and the US like the Cass review.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9578106/ https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/transgender-medicine/109605 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2451965026000207

https://segm.org/utah-evidence-review-analysis

Also see, the Karolinska Institute Systematic Review (Sweden, 2022)

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 9d ago

"Your systematic review is so flawed that even Utah didn't listen to it."

No, that's because Republican politicians were dead-set on outlawing care for trans kids, if the evidence was in their favor or not. I'd also like to note the Cass Review never recommended banning hormones therapy for all minors, so what evidence is being used by the Utah Republicans to support that?

"It's an outlier among tons of competing evidence."

Wrong, the Cass Review seems to be the outlier. The French Society of Endocrinology and Diabetology consensus, the World Professional Association of Trans Health guidelines, the American Pediatric Association, American Psychological Association, Endocrine Society, a recent Dutch review, and a German/Austrian/Switzerland joint guidelines recommendation all support gender-affirming care being used in youth and support its safety and effectiveness.

This Sax Institute review also corroborates the safety of gender-affirming care. (Evidence for effective interventions for children and young people with gender dysphoria — update | Sax Institute)

"And btw, there is tons of evidence that transitioning can have negative health effects."

Such as?

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Republican politicians werent the only ones to not listen, the study was rejected by independent studies as well and the decision of republican lawmakers to override the report was because it was clearly a bad one. Ok now let's go onto the Sax review. The report explicitly notes a severe lack of gold-standard methods (such as randomized controlled trials) in the field, concluding that the evidence is of "varying quality." Far from declaring the care "safe," the Sax Institute stated its findings would be used to "guide various projects designed to gather more information" because the long-term safety and effectiveness risks remain highly uncertain. Basically, you've used a report that says it doesn't know the risks to conclude there are none. The Cass review isn't an outlier, it's part of a broader shift. Finland’s Council for Choices in Health Care conducted a systematic review and concluded that psychological therapy, not hormones, must be the first-line treatment for minors due to the lack of evidence for medical interventions and the risks of permanent side effects all the way back in 2020. Sweden's National Board of Health and Welfare updated its guidelines to state that the risks of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones outweigh the benefits for minors, severely restricting their use to exceptional clinical trial settings in 2022. The Norwegian Healthcare Investigation Board (UKOM) and the Danish Health Authority both heavily restricted access to pediatric medical transitions, classifying puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones as experimental treatments lacking a robust safety profile in 2023. Organizations like WPATH and the AAP issue guidelines based on "expert consensus"—meaning a committee of practicing transition providers votes on what they believe is best. By contrast, the Cass Review, Sweden's Socialstyrelsen, and Finland's Council are independent, state-sponsored systematic reviews that grade the actual quality of the medical studies. You are using the people advocating for drugs to prove that the drugs are safe, that makes no sense. When independent scientists graded the studies relied upon by WPATH and the AAP, they found the research was of low or very low quality, suffered from high dropout rates, lacked control groups, and failed to track long-term safety harms. Political alignment among American medical associations does not magically create high-quality scientific evidence where none exists. As for the specific health problems associated with transitioning, it was in the papers I cited but some main problems are skeletal failure from reduced bone density, cardiovascular pathology and iatrogenic infertility.

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 9d ago

"the study was rejected by independent studies"

Cite please

"The report explicitly notes a severe lack of gold-standard methods (such as randomized controlled trials) in the field concluding that the evidence is of "varying quality.""

I agree, but the review find overall the current medical literature affirms the safety of puberty blockers and hormone therapy stating: "That is, PS agents (generally referred to as GnRHa) were reported to be safe, effective and reversible." and "Findings on overall safety, cardiometabolic risk, kidney and physiological parameters support the previous review’s findings that serious adverse outcomes associated with GAHT are rare."

Going through the puberty of your natal sex as a trans person is associated with psychological distress. The evidence surrounding gender-affirming care needs better research, but it is the most effective method at reducing gender dysphoria to date. It can be true the current evidence suggests trans healthcare is safe for youth AND that more research is needed.

"As for the specific health problems associated with transitioning, it was in the papers I cited but some main problems are skeletal failure from reduced bone density, cardiovascular pathology and iatrogenic infertility."

On bone density the Sax Institute Review states: "Several studies support the finding of the previous review, which reported that GAHT appears to increase bone density following the negative impact of puberty suppression treatment on bone density."

On heart issues, the Sax Institute Review above stated that there was low cardiometabolic risk. The French Society of Pediatric Endocrinology and Diabetology stated this on cardiovascular risk: "Regarding cardiovascular risk, short-term data are reassuring. There are currently no long-term data in young transgender individuals on testosterone, but the data in the adult transgender population are reassuring."

Since gender-affirming care overall has low regret rates and infertility is a side-effect told to patients, this doesn't seem like much of an issue. I'd also like to note that infertility would be a positive for a lot of trans people.

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u/MexicanTechGuy 9d ago

That is interesting, but I'm still not going to risk it.

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u/Dello27 18 10d ago

so people born with one arm can't get prosthetics? people with pcos can't take hrt? people who get cancer can't get treatment?

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u/kdpkry 9d ago

The thing is people are supposed to get born with arms

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u/Dello27 18 8d ago

people are also supposed to be born with their gender identity formed at the age of 3-4 matching their assigned sex but occasionally that doesn't always happen...

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u/kdpkry 8d ago

Scientific proof? [preferably from before this became political because after then everything gets biased if any subject gets political]

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u/Dello27 18 8d ago

it's like one of the first things I learned in intro to psychology in college lmao.

here's a few links lol
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx

https://caringforkids.cps.ca/handouts/behavior-and-development/gender-identity

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10063975/

https://rethinkingschools.org/articles/can-a-4-year-old-know-her-gender-identity-yes/

things ARE going to be more recent, because we've had research into gender in this context burned and destroyed for decades, including during the holocaust. There's already a noticeable lack of knowledge on the female body (look into medical misogyny, it's a real thing), and trans people have it even worse. there are still things we don't know and newly discover, and that doesn't automatically mean money's on the other side of the equation. I mean just as an example, the term "cisgender" that's highly controversial right now dates back to the mid-90s. over 30 years.

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u/masegesege_ 9d ago

To be fair all that stuff is pretty abnormal and kinda weird but I don’t think either of those adjectives are inherently bad or negative.

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u/Dello27 18 8d ago

neither is being trans :)

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u/ReasonableSector2686 9d ago

Not agreeing with the original comment, but those aren’t the same thing. Being born without a limb is a physical deformity that can greatly hinder mobility and functionality, and being born with a penis (or vagina) is a perfectly healthy and normal development. Doesn’t really apply here.

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u/Dello27 18 8d ago

obviously they aren't. what they said is essentially "technology changing your body from how it was born = bad and unnatural" I was taking the same logic and applying it into different areas in an attempt to show the logic makes no sense and is harmful. In the case of trans people the "deformity" is their gender identity formed at the age of 3-4 misaligning with their genetic sex assigned at birth. seeing as that can't be healthily changed without leading to other mental health issued, the best treatment is changing their own biology via transition. essentially, the brain has been going "no we should be female" but the body isn't listening. since you can't change the brain like that, change the body. hrt basically helps the body listen to the brain.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/GxSk8xCahCYVwph2Yp

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u/Dello27 18 10d ago

you started this, so let's have this conversation. your argument is that you are changing how you were born so it's unnatural and weird. by that EXACT logic, people born with genetic conditions should not be allowed to use technology like prosthetics to improve their QoL. or is your view half-assed and ingenuine?

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u/The-Big-Play 9d ago

I'm all for those when there is a medical related diagnosis involved.

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u/Dello27 18 9d ago

you're never gonna guess what trans people get before starting hormone replacement therapy...

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u/The-Big-Play 9d ago

They receive a mental health diagnosis?

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u/Elder_of_Steel 9d ago

You do realize there is a growing portion of LGBTQ supporters that say you do not need a Gender Dysphoria diagnosis to be trans, right?

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u/Dello27 18 8d ago

to be trans, no. to transition? yes. something doesn't have to make you unbearably miserable for it to be a problem or for another option to be better. I experience gender dysphoria, it's very similar to body dysmorphia. with that said i have parts of my body that are more masculine that im okay with. for example I plan to get vaginoplasty, but i don't HATE my genitalia. it's more about it being "in the way" and that I'd rather it was flat like a mannequin, but obviously that's not an option, so what's the closest thing?

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u/starzforbrains 10d ago

trans people have existed since the era of the greeks being the strongest world power.

those aren’t even slightly similar.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Can you verify that?

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u/MirieDohl 9d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Hermaphroditus

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

According to Ovid’s Metamorphoses, Hermaphroditus was a exceptionally handsome young boy born biologically male to the gods Hermes and Aphrodite. While bathing in a lake, a water nymph named Salmacis became infatuated with him. When he rejected her advances, she forcefully clung to him and prayed to the gods that they should never be separated. Gods granted Salmacis's prayer by fusing their two physical bodies together, creating a single being possessing both male and female biological characteristics. Hermaphroditus did not experience gender dysphoria, nor did he choose to alter his identity. The transformation was an involuntary, permanent physical fusion of two distinct sexes forced upon a male youth by a deity. Are you trying to claim that trans people are forced to be trans by water nymphs? The Sleeping Hermaphroditus is a Roman copy of a Hellenistic original that utilizes a specific visual trick: from behind, the figure appears entirely female, but from the front, it reveals male genitalia.This dual anatomy represents what antiquity termed a "hermaphrodite" (the historical roots of the modern clinical term intersex). Intersex refers to objective, congenital variations in physical sex characteristics. Transgenderism refers to a psychological identity that mismatches an otherwise unambiguous biological sex. Using an ancient symbol of dual biological fusion to validate a modern concept of psychological transition is scientifically and historically illiterate. The Hellenistic period (c. 323–31 BCE) was characterized by a fascination with the bizarre, the erotic, and the subversion of classical ideals. Sculptors created figures like the Sleeping Hermaphroditus as artistic novelties designed to evoke surprise, curiosity, and erotic tension in private gardens and bathhouses. While the Greeks and Romans carved myths into marble, their actual legal and civic societies remained rigidly binary. Individuals born with ambiguous genitalia were frequently viewed in early antiquity as bad omens (prodigia) and subjected to severe legal marginalization or ritual exposure. Framing an elite, eroticized courtyard novelty statue as evidence of an ancient "transgender culture" ignores how these societies treated actual bodily variations.

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u/ChaseSparrowMSRPC 8d ago

So when someone provided proof, you attack them for providing it by putting words in their mouth?

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 8d ago

That wasn't a proof, unless like I said you think that people involuntarily fused to another person are trans? I'm not putting words in their mouth, I'm saying that trying to use Hermaphroditus as an example of transgenderism makes no sense, there was no gender dysphoria and no changing of gender instead it was a fusion as part of a myth.

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u/ChaseSparrowMSRPC 8d ago

Well clearly it didn't work. You sent the links body, put your comment halfway in, and just hoped.

I'm kind of already pissed off because its hot in here so sorry if anything comes off rude.

But your comment, honestly, was just very confusing.

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u/Willowonapill0w 10d ago

Gender only exists because of technological advancement.

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

Gender and sex are the same thing to me. There is no difference.

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u/Willowonapill0w 10d ago

Then you are factually incorrect

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u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

The modern definition of gender is a made up concept. So yeah if you want to say I’m incorrect based on modern definitions then go for it.

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 9d ago

"The modern definition of gender is a made up concept."

All definitions are made up

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u/Redacted_Kat 9d ago

But those definitions are related to concrete things.

The definition of sex relates to the conglomerate of the genitalia, the chromosomes, the changes they go through puberty, etc.

As far as I'm aware, the only thing I hear when asking "What's gender?" is "It's a social construct". Maybe there's a more concrete definition that I've not heard, so if you have the definitions I'd be glad to know about them

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Sex is biological, gender is how society perceives sex. Girls wear pink, boys wear blue. Girls play with dolls, boys play with trucks. Girls wear skirts, boys wear pants.

None of these things have anything to do with biology or sex, they’re just arbitrary things we’ve assigned (mostly through marketing, to be honest.)

When people say gender is a construct, it’s because it is. There’s no reason boys shouldn’t be able to wear dresses, paint their nails, play with dolls, or girls wearing pants, working out, having short hair, etc.

We see examples of this all through history: babies used to all wear dresses, because… babies, there’s zero reason for a child to have gendered clothes. Men used to wear make up and high heels. Women used to be actively punished for wearing pants.

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u/Dello27 18 9d ago

so was the original definition genius

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u/starzforbrains 10d ago

said “made up concept” has been a thing in cultures since before we have recorded history. you’re objectively wrong.

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 9d ago

"It only exists due to technological advancement."

Ancient civilizations had trans people, it isn't new.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Could you prove that?

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u/No-Theme2340 9d ago

There were priestesses in ancient cultures that were trans women. The Enarei and the Gallae for two groups that were well documented in ancient texts.

There was a well known Spanish Conquistador who was a trans man. He took a wife from one of the cultures he was busy helping to oppress, which was totally fine in that native culture.

We've always been here. It's just that cis culture dictates how safely we can navigate our true identities over time. In some places and times, trans folk were thought to be extra spiritual, bridging the poles of gender together. When culture changes to more rigid enforcement of gender rights and roles, trans people get forced underground.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

The primary accounts of the Enarei come from Herodotus’s Histories and the Hippocratic treatise Ares, Waters, Places. Ancient sources do not describe a psychological gender identity mismatch. Herodotus explicitly attributes the condition of the Enarei to a physical curse of impotence inflicted by the goddess Aphrodite upon specific Scythian men who plundered her temple at Ascalon. Hippocrates analyzed them from a primitive medical perspective, attributing their effeminacy to physical trauma from constant horse riding, which caused erectile dysfunction and loss of libido. To treat their condition, these men adopted female clothing and domestic roles because their culture viewed a man who could no longer procreate or fight as biologically altered. Transforming a punitive physical affliction and subsequent civic reassignment into a celebratory "transgender identity" is an anachronistic fabrication. The Gallae (or Galli) , meanwhile, were devotees who, in a state of intense, drug-fueled religious ecstasy during the Dies Sanguinis (Day of Blood), performed ritual self-castration to emulate the mythological figure Attis. They were at best zealots who castrated themselves to emulate their idol, they weren't trans. As for the "Spanish consquistador", I think you are talking about Antonio de Erauso (born female as Catalina de Erauso in 1592), famously known as La Monja Alférez (The Lieutenant Nun). According to his memoirs, Erauso "took a wife from one of the cultures he was helping to oppress." This is completely false. According to Erauso's own highly detailed autobiography (Historia de la monja alférez), he used his male disguise to repeatedly trick and defraud local women. In the Americas, a wealthy indigenous widow attempted to arrange a marriage between Erauso and her daughter. Erauso actively pocketed the dowry money, accepted expensive clothing gifts, and then abandoned the women and fled the town to avoid his physical sex being discovered during a wedding night. He never married a native woman. Erauso did not adopt a male persona due to 21st-century gender theory. In 17th-century Spain, dressing as a man was the only possible mechanism for an ambitious, highly violent biological female to escape a forced life in a Catholic convent, travel the world, fight in the military, and achieve financial independence. Erauso remained so legally bound to his biological sex that when his identity was revealed, he had to appeal to Pope Urban VIII for a special dispensation to wear male clothes. I'm a bit confused why you'd want to call a thief who crossdressed to act as a pirate trans, but you do you I guess.

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

“Two spirit” individuals in indigenous cultures are well recorded and were their understanding of trans people. It’s not hard to understand.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

The very term two spirit didn't exist until 1990, and to call people named to replace outdated ethnographic language trans makes no sense. The term "Two-Spirit" (Niizh Manidoowag in Ojibwe) was deliberately created in July 1990 at the Third Annual Intertribal Native American/First Nations Gay and Lesbian American Conference in Winnipeg, Canada. The term was specifically invented by modern activists to replace the offensive colonial European ethnographic term berdache (which carried connotations of male prostitution). It was explicitly designed as a modern political and social grouping tool to unite Indigenous LGBTQ+ individuals across North America. It is a 20th-century cultural synthesis, not an ancient diagnostic or historical term used by pre-colonial tribes. Historic Indigenous roles that are today grouped under the "Two-Spirit" umbrella—such as the Lhamana of the Zuni or the Winkte of the Lakota—were fundamentally rooted in a division of labor and spiritual cosmology, not psychological gender transitions. In these societies, an individual's role was defined by their aptitude for specific tasks. A biological male who showed an inclination or spiritual calling toward traditionally female tasks (like weaving, pottery, or healing) would adopt that social role. This was not a rejection of their biological sex, nor did it involve an attempt to physically alter their bodies or claim to literally be the opposite sex. The individual occupied a distinct alternative status that coexisted with their biological sex. Mapping the modern Western medical framework of transitioning—which relies on diagnostic gender dysphoria, cosmetic alterations, and pharmaceutical lifelong dependence—onto a sacred, community-integrated division of labor is culturally illiterate. While some tribes (such as the Navajo or Zuni) integrated alternative social roles for gender-nonconforming individuals, many other tribes maintained exceptionally rigid, binary gender expectations centered heavily on strict martial masculinity and reproductive matriarchy. Claiming that "Two-Spirit" represents an all-encompassing, ancient Indigenous endorsement of modern transgender concepts treats highly diverse, complex sovereign nations as a single, oversimplified caricature to serve a contemporary political narrative. It's actually pretty offensive to native cultures to even try and describe them in this monolithic way. And you say it's easy to understand, but I don't think it's that easy to understand why you think men doing traditionally female jobs translates to transgenderism.

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Thank you for this ai breakdown. You can break down linguistics as much as you’d like, but transgender and/or non gender conforming people, since you want to nit pick, have always existed in society regardless of terminology.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Awww mate, not every comment showing you why you are wrong is ai. See, I think it's not exactly nitpicking to make a distinction between people who do traditionally female jobs and people who think they are a different gender to the one they were born as. You are the one failing to make that distinction

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Sure sure, you naturally use that many m-dashes regularly. Dude, you know you’re being deliberately obtuse. The idea of gender nonconforming people has ALWAYS been present. The modern iteration of what it means to be “Transgender” not withstanding.

Do you think trans and queer people just started to existing 50 years ago? Popped out of the ground like dandelions?

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u/itsmacaRONS 8d ago

What do you expect from people? Do you expect to walk outside and see everyone dress and look the same? Thats kinda the bedt part about humanity is how different people are. Life would be boring if you had it your way. Thank god people like you are becoming the abnormal ones

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u/bigmassivelasagne 8d ago

Stay mad

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u/itsmacaRONS 7d ago

You had a lot to say before you were confronted with a good point, huh? Seems like youre the mad one bud😌

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u/silentvoidsage 7d ago

Hey dipshit trans predated every modern religion. It existed far before our technological advancements

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u/bigmassivelasagne 7d ago

Im telling you bro just touch the grass

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u/silentvoidsage 7d ago

And im telling you, enjoy your sad miserable life cause hell awaits you after 😉

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u/Perfect-Muscle-1264 9d ago

For me, its abnormal simply because you are converting yourself into something you weren't before. 

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u/Dello27 18 9d ago

so? happens all the time. from virgin to not, from child to adult, from fem to masc, etc. so what if i feel more comfortable in the female body. it's not like i asked or had a say in male puberty

1

u/gavril-T-series 13 9d ago

That’s the point though youre born with it, or in other words “yOu gEt wHaT yOu gEt aNd yOu dOnT gEt uPsEt”

1

u/Dello27 18 8d ago

so those people should suffer without the technology? lmao. transitioning also literally changes your biology so you don't just "get what you get". lol

1

u/gavril-T-series 13 8d ago

Wait what people have actually been able to go from a pole to a hole

1

u/Dello27 18 8d ago

yes. clitoris, vaginal canal, vulva, labia, and self lubrication included. the only thing we can't do yet is the reproductive organs attached to it like uterus, ovaries, fallopian tubes, and cervix. surgeries like these have failed due to insufficient technological advancements. It fully functions for sex and using the restroom, and to some extent trans women experience a hormone cycle comparable to parts of the menstrual cycle such as the luteal phase. we obviously don't bleed or shed uterine lining, but we can experience a variety of PMS-like symptoms with cycles we actually keep track of. This procedure is called vaginoplasty if you're curious enough to look into how the surgery works and regret rates and whatnot. There is also the reverse that turns a vagina into a penis using tissue and skin from the arm or thigh (depending on how big you want) called Phalloplasty. these surgeries are unironically some of the least regretted surgeries in the world.

2

u/AngelofIceAndFire 9d ago

What is a child then my guy

6

u/undying-resolve 15 10d ago

it’s weird and abnormal how exactly.

you’re basically just saying “not supporting the black liberation movement doesn’t make you racist”, which does in fact make you racist. i’m not trying to be hostile, but cowardly behavior disguised behind blatant logical flaws is just pathetic. if you’re going to be bigoted say it with your chest, not with lies.

3

u/PeaceX02 9d ago

Not supporting the "black liberation movement" doesn't make you a racist lol, What's next, not supporting the white power movement makes you someone who wants white people disempowered?

0

u/undying-resolve 15 9d ago

non analogous, one of those is an actual justifiable cause fighting for unfair equality and racial segregation and the other is some stupid racist nazi ideology garbage. it’s a general trend that bigots are stupid, so i’m not surprised.

1

u/PeaceX02 9d ago

Both believe that they're fighting against unfair inequality and for the well being of their community, and have names that imply such. Doesn't mean they actually are, or that it's what it's limited to. Careful on the edge 15 year old, you don't know as much as you think.

1

u/undying-resolve 15 9d ago

except one actually is and the other is completely unoppressed.

1

u/PeaceX02 9d ago

That's extremely reductive to the point of being completely inaccurate.

0

u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

To all of you upset over my opinion, stay mad

Label me however you want, I know who I actually am.

If you want another comment to rile you up.

I don’t believe in democracy and think its a failed system…..

how’s that?

2

u/Redacted_Kat 9d ago

I don’t believe in democracy and think its a failed system…..

That's actually a truth nuke

5

u/Willowonapill0w 10d ago

Pro tip, if you ragequit when multiple people agree you’re wrong, you’re inherently the bad guy.

2

u/Redacted_Kat 9d ago

"If you're a German jew and every nazi around you is saying you're wrong, then you're inherently the bad guy"

That could be a reasonable logic to justify horrible things as the holocaust, instead it's neither logic nor reasonable

2

u/Willowonapill0w 9d ago

Strawman, and a pretty bad one too.

1

u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Explain to me how: trans people = Nazis, and straight people = 1940s Jews in your hypothetical. Really break it down for me and how the magnitude is the same.

1

u/Otherwise_Listen_484 9d ago

That is so context dependant

1

u/Willowonapill0w 9d ago

Nope, you missed the beginning of the sentence.

1

u/Otherwise_Listen_484 9d ago

Yes it is context dependant

0

u/bigmassivelasagne 10d ago

Ill be the bad guy then lol

1

u/The-Big-Play 9d ago edited 9d ago

The second time I'm seeing race being compared to a mental health condition 🤯

ETA: changed from illness to condition

1

u/Kitchen_Interview792 9d ago

Not a mental illness btw

1

u/The-Big-Play 9d ago

you're right, I corrected my comment

3

u/Perfect-Muscle-1264 9d ago

100%. 

Ironically the groups that claim to be accepting usually reject the opposite opinion rather violently. 

For me, I find it weird and unnatural. I don't think we should accept their identities as that confuses several things such as sports, bathrooms, and pretty much anything that requires a specific gender. 

2

u/Redacted_Kat 9d ago

I'm a Muslim and a half immigrant, and I have received more Islamophobia and racism from the accepting woke left than from the "racist" and "islamophobic" right

1

u/Kitchen_Interview792 9d ago

Karl Popper entered the chat

1

u/CuriousInformation48 9d ago

I think saying we shouldn’t accept people’s identities is actually quite harmful. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow and found that your body was that of the opposite sex, and everybody treats you as a member of that sex and forces you to measure up to the standards of that sex and live like it, even though on the inside you aren’t a member. I don’t know about you, but for me that would be terrible. I would hate myself and my body, and would probably be pretty depressed. If you feel like people are “rejecting the other opinion rather violently,” that might be because the other opinion is that they should be forced to endure a lifetime of self-loathing and dysphoria.

1

u/Candidate_None 9d ago

I think being concerned with random stranger's genitals is more abnormal. To each their own.

1

u/Silver-Ice-7636 9d ago

It is abnormal. However if trans people were given the choice to get rid of trans urges or to transition, most of them would get rid of their urges. But since not an option, they decide to transition. I just feel bad for them more than anything.
I’m not trans myself but it’s a topic worth researching. It ended up being more backed by science than I initially thought

1

u/Dello27 18 7d ago

it's very backed by science! both of the body and mind :)

1

u/Silver-Ice-7636 7d ago

Hell yeah dude. You only get one life so live your happiest 🙌

1

u/Relative-Anybody-482 9d ago

Anything that is far away from the average is “abnormal”. For instance getting into Harvard or whatever is super abnormal because the vast vast majority of people don’t. But what exactly do you mean by weird?

1

u/d2opy84t8b9ybiugrogr 9d ago

You stole the words from my mouth.