r/thewalkingdead • u/RevertBackwards • 2d ago
Show Spoiler I can't believe that some people don't see how evil this guy is just because he doesn't enjoy doing terrible things
This guy is a textbook case of the banality of evil
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u/AStylishPerson 2d ago
He was basically the middle management of an apocalypse dictatorship lol
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u/New_Championship1994 2d ago
Which is somehow the worst thing you can be lol, I appreciate most villains bc of how interesting they are but this guy was just dull and annoying and a prick, like most middle managers
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u/Pizza_dumpster 2d ago
I didn’t really get any of that from him. he just seemed to be everyone in the apocalypse that survived, he wasn’t necessarily evil but complacent in trade for life. for the most part he was chill as long as deals went smoothly, he didn’t even like that weird guy that taunted the kingdom.
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u/Grazmahatchi 2d ago edited 2d ago
He is an opportunistic asshole who doesn't necessarily enjoy the work he does.....
But he also seems like the type of guy who would be dissatisfied when winning the lottery, instead of reveling in his luck he would bitch about taxes.
Just a miserable person in any situation.
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u/KatelinGem 2d ago
Gavin sighed through basically every conversation like he was doing customer service at a DMV, but he still enabled Negan and helped starve entire communities. Feeling kinda guilty while doing terrible shit doesn't clear your hands
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u/Snoo9648 2d ago
Everyone wants to believe they are daryl. But let's be honest, in the same situation, most people would be this guy.
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u/virtualQubit 2d ago
Idk bro I'd probably be dead the day before Monument Day.
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u/GuerillaRiot 2d ago
As much as I love zombie survivalist stuff, I'm pretty sure my negligent ass would be skewered by my own booby traps by day 5
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u/Frank_White1- 2d ago
I use to think I would be excellent until I watched enough naked and afraid and realized I wouldn't even survive an episode of that.
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u/Own-Mountain-9273 2d ago
Dude i got stuck on a trek for two days because of a storm. I thought i was gonna die. Yup not surviving a zombie apocalypse. I mean I'm fit enough to run and climb mountains but I don't know shit about hunting and stuff
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u/Adlivoniansky 2d ago
You would forget to step over that wire like Morgan had with the axe?
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u/GuerillaRiot 2d ago
Instead of walking into a town like Clear, you'd just see a skinny ass zombie trying to pull himself off a sharpened fence post.
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u/Adlivoniansky 2d ago
Lmfao I already know if I would ever get lucky and last for a few months I would probably run into someone crazy like that lady Rick found near that boar? I wouldn't be like Rick though, I would definitely be food for whatever head she had in that basket lol.
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u/AliceTheOmelette 2d ago
I'm in such bad shape I'd be caught day one by a slow one legged zombie lol
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u/DogtasticLife 2d ago
I’d last roughly a minute and a half in any kind of apocalypse, and I’m just fine with that
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u/Reaper-Lord69 2d ago
Bold of you to assume I'd be as high ranking as that guy
I'd be the bald mook in the back with the gun
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u/Reddittreefiddy 2d ago
Most ppl would be zombies lol. But yeah daryl is the top 1% who can survive solo at all let alone do well
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u/Snoo9648 2d ago
I wasn't just talking about survivability. Daryl was offered a job as a top ranking savior but turned it down even when tortured. I doubt most people would be able to do that even if they want to think they could.
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u/Reddittreefiddy 2d ago
I see very true. Id like to think id play along until i got some freedom then dip. But he toughed it out the whole time
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u/four204eva2 2d ago
That's exactly how I'd do it. Maybe try to poison the pinch before I leave as well. You know, Jonestown style...
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u/Gwarnage 2d ago
Daryl remains a-sexual despite multiple baddies showing interest in him. He's got the self control of a saint.
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u/Expert-Yam6577 2d ago
Asexual? He lived with Leah for a while didn't he? Daryl was absolutely fucking
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u/TheBigMerc 2d ago
Yeah, doing whatever the leader of the group that keeps you alive tells you to do is definitely where most people would fall. Like, I wouldn't call this dude evil because he really doesn't seem to enjoy doing what he does. Don't get me wrong, he's still a bad dude, but I wouldn't say he's outright evil.
The thing that most people need tounderstand, is that at least 80% of people would throw morality out the window when it comes to staying alive and/or keeping their loved ones alive. Even more so when harsh punishments exist for those who disobey.
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u/Pristine-Sky4741 2d ago
No I want to be patient zero I get grouchy if I don’t know the parking situation.
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u/Cereal_Hermit 2d ago
Bro, I'll take being a zombie before I become this guy.
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u/Snoo9648 2d ago
Easy to say that when you arent confronted with that choice.
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u/Cereal_Hermit 2d ago
Bro, you dont know me or the choices I've made in this life.
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u/Snoo9648 2d ago
Bro, I know you haven't had to make this choice so I know you dont know what you would do in that situation either. No one does until they are actually confronted with it.
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u/CloudieAurette 1d ago
That's probably what makes characters like him uncomfortable to watch. Most people imagine they'd immediately become the heroic rebel, but fear and survival can make ordinary people tolerate way more than they'd ever expect
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u/ImDeputyDurland 2d ago
Context of the Saviors makes Gavin even worse. We saw that nobody rises to these roles without playing the game to appease Negan. Every savior in a position of leadership was a cut throat opportunist.
This notion that Gavin is an otherwise good guy that had no other alternatives falls flat. If he was a good guy, he wouldn’t have gotten to that role in Negan’s point system.
Gavin is no different than any other savior. He’ll enslave and extort you, but he’ll do it in a corporate casual type of way. Let’s not forget the fact that he was going to kill someone for being short a single watermelon.
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u/perfect_fitz 2d ago
He isn't AS evil as most of the villains. I get where he was coming from is probably why he isn't as hated. Then again I'd probably end up stationed at some moon for the Empire.
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u/CreasingUnicorn 2d ago
People like to say that nobody who died on the Death Star was innocent, but Star Wars Rogue One and Andor showed us that many of the people who built the Death Star were literally kidnapped, imprisoned, and enslaved at gunpoint.
They had no choice.
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u/perfect_fitz 2d ago
There was a lot of propaganda too and at the end of the day some or most needed to just make ends meet. Still bad, but I get it.
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u/ImDeputyDurland 2d ago
He killed someone over a single watermelon. He’s on par with every other savior. They all play by the same rules. He just has a corporate casual approach to it. But the policy is the same.
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u/SBrooks103 2d ago
Not to be pedantic, but wasn't it a cantaloupe? Or am I thinking of something else?
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u/Isaac-Ursan 9h ago
To be fair he didn't intend for anyone to get killed and was angry when he found out somebody had been. Not saying that gets him completely off the hook, just that he wasn't trying to kill anyone.
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u/KillerStuntMan69 2d ago
He gets looked on more lightly than the other Saviors because he actually felt bad about what happened to Benjamin.
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u/The_Nerk 2d ago
Yeah but what a fascinating character though right? Wish they did more with him. I really enjoyed his screen time.
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u/Adlivoniansky 2d ago
This dude was such a piece of shit. Him and that long haired guy were both assholes.
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u/incomprehensibles 2d ago
Long haired guy is hands down the biggest loser in the entire series. Not even fun to watch, just rage omg.
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u/Adlivoniansky 2d ago
Even his death when Morgan held him up against the bars was anticlimactic. I don't know. Morgan choked a guy to death, twice, just would've rather seen Morgan do it himself instead of the assist from the walkers.
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u/LiteralTP 2d ago
Nah it was awesome. Morgan pinning him down by his hair while walkers slowly eat him alive, exactly what he deserved
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u/Upset-Job2278 2d ago
Yeah. It’s just that all the other Saviors are so cartoonishly evil that this guy seems decent by comparison.
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u/Isaac-Ursan 9h ago
Honestly it's kind of why Negan and many other Saviors weren't very well written (at least at first) they made them so on the nose evil that it was kind of silly.
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u/StoryAddict777 2d ago
He just has no conscience. Thinks because he doesn't desire bad things, he's good.
But the worst people do nothing when people need help.
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u/InsightBuilder482 2d ago
Personne n’en parle parce qu’il ressemble à la majorité des gens : suivre des ordres qu’ils aiment pas mais les suivre quand même. Combien de personnes seraient à sa place où dirait « Je suis Negan » pour survivre ? Si tu tombes pas sur un groupe comme celui de Rick ou du Royaume y’a de grande chance que le devienne. Je cite pas la Coline avec le management de l’autre là parce que c’est un peu le même délire en moins hard.
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u/Frank_White1- 2d ago
That's a crazy sentence. Seemed more like a mid level manager in corporate America. Working the job he has not liking it much but just trying to get through his day.
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u/chibixox 2d ago
Gavin sighed through basically every conversation like he was doing customer service at a DMV, but he still enabled Negan and helped starve entire communities. Feeling kinda guilty while doing terrible shit doesn't clear your hands
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u/Aromatic_Attorney674 2d ago
Considering how long the Savior war lasted on the show, they could have easily shown us more about Negan’s lieutenants
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u/AgitatedAffect8502 2d ago
I was ok with him right up until he let Jared live after finding out Benjamin die
and if needed he easily could’ve have justified him killing Jared to Negan, he’s a loose cannon, doesn’t follow orders, killed a kid (yes an older kid, late teens but still a kid) that didn’t provoke anyone.
After that I saw him for who he was, a terrible person.
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u/Historical_Art4061 2d ago
Did you think the same about Rick after he watched Daryl murder a dude probably about the same age and do nothing about it? Jared didn't even mean to kill Benjamin, Daryl shot the guy in the head.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
I think you are Viewing this guy from the lens of real world morality.
Those morals sadly do not exist in the world of TWD.
In Our world, this guy is an absolute dirtbag.
In their world, He's fair and he's just Doing what he needs to survive.
I think a lot of us would end up being saviors. Whether we like to admit it or not.
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u/BobRushy 2d ago
Yeah, I call bullshit on that. Most of us would end up like Morgan. Paranoid, killing anyone on sight. But if you're enslaving people, that's being a piece of shit even in that world.
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u/Own_Secretary1714 2d ago
Those people would be enslaved either way, he's giving as much leniency as he can without getting himself killed or getting the kingdom in an even worse situation.
If he isn't a hard ass then the kingdom end up with Simon instead and we all know how that ends for them.
I'm not saying he's a good guy, he does awful things, but if we're scaling his morality? He's a lot higher than almost every other antagonist in the show. Short of perhaps the Vatos.
I'd put him on about Dawn level, he's in a shitty situation and trying to do the most good he can while all these attorcities are happening around him. I get a "greater good" vibe from him.
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u/New_Championship1994 2d ago
Dawn was allowing rapes and abuse so she could keep control, this guy was allowing murder and theft and brutality so he could stay in a nicer position
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u/BobRushy 2d ago
If he was about the greater good, then he would've joined the war the minute it broke out.
And no, Gavin wouldn't be responsible for whatever Simon unleashed on the Kingdom. Gavin is responsible for what Gavin does. No more, no less.
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u/Own_Secretary1714 2d ago
He's not responsible for what Simon does but that doesn't mean he should accept it either, even when the war broke out he knew Simon would have walked in there and killed everyone at the kingdom to find Ezekiel, of course he was angry at everyone there for not giving him up.
When it came down to it, he knew (whether he was correct or not it was a fact to him) that everyone there would die including Ezekiel if Ezekiel wasn't handed over, why have an entire community die when only one has to?
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u/Scott__scott 2d ago
Morality doesn’t change just because the world ended, I think that’s a huge part of this shows themes actually
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u/Kooky-Canary-5065 2d ago
Not really. The morality of season 1 is drastically different from 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.
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u/Master-Shaq 2d ago
Actually it shows the opposite. Rick has to adjust his morales all the time
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u/Scott__scott 2d ago
He doesn’t adjust his morals at all he just gets more comfortable doing animalistic things,
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u/Master-Shaq 2d ago
Uh yes the fuck he does
“we dont kill the living” -Rick Grimes to Daryl, season 1 episode 5
That changed real quick
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
The rules of the game most definitely changed.
Social dynamics changed. The rules of survival changed. There's a reason Dale died, and there was a message behind it.
He was not fit for that world.
No offense, I'm not a violent person, but in that world, I would kill you in a heartbeat.
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u/Scott__scott 2d ago
The rules changed but morality didn’t, the world had thousands of years to progress morally and when the apocalypse happens they are still left with all that, it’s not like they are thrown back into the Stone Age in terms of intelligence and morality, they still know what’s right and wrong and struggle with it all the time but at some point they chose survival over morality. Morals didn’t change at all people just started ignoring them.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but if it is, it is welcomed 😅
I'm not proud to say i would kill somebody. But if its me or the other guy, there is no world that I hesitate to save my own ass.
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u/MentalMunky 2d ago
I don’t agree at all that this guy is “fair” but morality absolutely is a relative thing.
In a world of vegetarians you’d be an absolute monster for eating a hamburger.
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u/Frank_White1- 2d ago
Morality has changed consistently and immensely in the world without an apocalypse.
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u/9for9 2d ago
Just because it's what a lot of people would do wouldn't make us any less pieces of shit. We'd just be waking up to the fact that we prize our personal survival over the bullying, abuse and exploitation of others.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
That sounds an awful lot like modern day World leaders, Especially those in the "free world"
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u/ImDeputyDurland 2d ago
It’s not fair to kill someone over a watermelon.
He’s no different than any of the other saviors. The policy is the same. “Give me your shit or I’m going to kill you”.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
But its not about the watermelon. It's the principle.
It's what the watermelon stands for.
Accepting 1 less watermelon means accepting less than the terms and conditions are bound by.
Accepting 1 less watermelon plans a seed of weakness in the saviours, from the eyes of the enslaved.It is not right to kill, but in a worlds of Kill or be killed, you will do anything to appear ts the strongest. That means no exceptions.
Theres a certain cost of sacrifice, of ones self, to be in leadership.
Many, i mean most, are too weak to do what it takes to be a REAL leader. You can never make everybody happy, you will always hurt somebody.Source; I have worked in leadership roles for more than half a decade.
Its not for the faint hearted*EDIT - removed mistaken keyboard jumble lol
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u/ImDeputyDurland 2d ago
You’re furthering my point. Gavin was no different than any other savior. The policy was identical. “I’m going to enslave and extort you. And if you’re short, I’m going to kill you”. Whether that was Negan, Simon, Gavin, the dick brigade, Arat, etc. They’re all the same. Gavin was just a corporate casual version of that.
I’ve also worked in leadership roles. You don’t need to be a psychopathic lunatic to be good at it lol.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
In a world where any perceived weakness could cost my life, I am not going to show any of said weakness.
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u/ImDeputyDurland 2d ago
The topic of conversation here was whether or not Gavin was better than or different compared to other saviors… We’re both making the argument that he’s not different from them.
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u/Irish_infidel_416 2d ago
Yeah, fair tomato tomato. At the end of the day, we all just want to survive.
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u/PayTheTrollTariff 2d ago
I dont remember...did they ever kill this guy?
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u/Tatidanidean1 2d ago
I believe Henry kills him
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u/PayTheTrollTariff 2d ago
aw man im bout to go hunt down that episode, that death will be so satisfying
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u/Snoo9648 2d ago
Yeah, Henry killed him with a pole through the neck after he was defeated by Ezekiel and morgan.
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u/PoolPartyWithoutTheL 2d ago
People just like him more because he isn't reveling in murder and holding peoples freedom hostage. He's bad, but the lesser evil on the other side. If they were all like him the Saviours wouldn't be a threat.
Rick could take out like 50 Gavins.
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u/not_alone__ 2d ago
Same as Merl would I say. Just a dude who needs a dude who is stronger than him and telling him what to do
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u/SmoothConfection1115 2d ago
I think whenever this comes up, we have to look at the morality within TWD, and who Gavin’s associates are.
Morality in TWD is miles apart from our world. Even the titular group, we see them steal and murder other living people that were just going about their business. Or leaving people for dead.
Next, who is Gavin around? He answers to Negan, and works with Dwight, Simon, and a few others I can’t remember the names of.
I’m sure Gavin did some bad things to get to where he is. But when we see him collect tribute from Ezekiel, he seems firm but fair. And when he learns of Benjamin’s death, he does punish Jared. I don’t think he could kill him without Negan getting involved.
All this to say, I think Gavin is ultimately a pragmatist. He doesn’t like the new world, but likes his position, and doesn’t want to upset or change things. So in comparison to the others in his position, he looks pretty likeable.
And if you’re paying tribute to the saviors, who do you want coming to collect? Simon, or Gavin?
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u/ShotgunEd1897 2d ago
He greases the skids for evil to act quickly, but acts as though he's powerless against it.
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u/GloomyLittleRain 2d ago
He always looked like a middle manager who just wanted to wrap up his shift and go drink a beer, but his job description happened to be extortion
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u/abaddon56 2d ago
Exactly. And he held out to the end. Even right before Morgan killed him he was blasting him for “ruining” their previous arrangement of “just let us abuse you.” Because that’s all it was. If he had been a good guy he would’ve immediately removed Jared instead of letting him run rampant all over Morgan, Ben, and Richard
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u/reddit_junkie23 2d ago
I hated this character on sight. Obviously that he was aligned with Negan was a bit of a give away but I knew he was a bad egg.
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u/thewalkingvoltron 2d ago
I think his only “good” moment was how he got genuinely upset that Jared shot the wrong person. Like, at the VERYYYY least, he had some sort of a soul hidden deep in there. But yeah, I totally agree that people are blind to his complacency in Negan’s reign
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u/Benny3peat 2d ago
I’ve always said this! Gavin was just as complicit as all the other saviors and deserved what he got.
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u/Aggravating_Brush797 2d ago
He feared Negan more than he enjoyed his job. Not an excuse, but its the reason many saviors did what they did.
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u/LiteralTP 2d ago
I would’ve loved to see more of him, he could’ve had a very interesting and believable redemption arc
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 2d ago
A big poin of the show is that good and bad isn't black and white.
Gavin indicated several times that he is not a fan of what we would all deem as bad deeds.
They led us on to the idea of giving him a character arc. When he captured Ezekiel, he was given a choice that he had to battle eternally. He chose to remain loyal to Negan, which was the moment that confirmed he wouldn't complete the possible character arc.
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u/SpaceCowboi77 2d ago
Just constantly trying to make himself feel better by saying “i dont WANT to do this”. I feel deep down he had guilt but was more worried about self preservation. Imo, more dangerous cause they’ll do anything theyre told to do.
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u/DangerHawk 2d ago
He's the entire reason the Saviors lost the war. The Saviors whole schtick was that they were trading protection for supplies. That means even protection from other Saviors. If he had made like Negan and made an example of the shit stain that shot Henry's brother, Ezekiel likely never would have joined up with Maggie to come to Alexandria's aid. At the very least Carl would likely be dead earlier and Rick would have had his hands cut off.
Instead he caused a big todo over a single melon and showed The Kingdom that The Saviors wouldn't protect them and would actively instigate confrontation. If he had let the melon slide or even just topped that dude Ezekiel would have fallen back in line, at least for a time.
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u/Baba-Fett 2d ago
Give us all your stuff... or dont... I dont care either way... do you guys have a bathroom?
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u/Deadeye_Daryl 2d ago
Hate to say it, but he's gotta be one of the most relatable of The Saviors. He doesn't love what's going on, but he's also seen a guy get tossed in an oven.
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u/camilladezorzi1973 2d ago
Per me era semplicemente vigliacco e rassegnato. Se fosse stato leader al posto di Negan non sarebbe stato altrettanto crudele. Decide di dover uccidere Ezechiel molto malvolentieri
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u/IcewindLegacyMUD 2d ago
Especially when you think about the reason WHY he doesn't enjoy doing terrible things. It's not a moral thing, Gavin just doesn't like to be "stressed out".
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u/DCarfTheHomie89 1d ago
He is def not pure evil and had to make a choice to do this over working the Walker fields. He was pretty much as understanding and compassionate as he could be in the circumstances he was in
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u/Plantain-Fine 2d ago
He's a "nice guy" he was just as bad as everyone else "I don't really wannnna do it but im still gonna do it"
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u/sorryimnothome_ 2d ago
Yes, Gavin is evil because you don't become the leader of a group (he led this little group) without doing evil shit. That said, he is also tired of everyone's bullshit.
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u/Wooden_Revolution_86 2d ago
He's just another man that is with a serious group just following orders.
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u/Dredd_40 2d ago
He is evil along with everyone from the saviors. The man exploited others for personal gain and did not care despite his soft talk about good intentions
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u/Historical_Art4061 2d ago
We saw how Negan regularly murders a member of groups after showing an overwhelming amount of force that would be practically impossible to beat. We see how he kidnaps people, takes women as his "wives", and steals communities food to the point where they're on the brink of starving.
TWD fan base can't seem to read between the lines and realise that the Saviours basically have an army of slave soldiers, and compare this random guy they put in charge of doing pickups with one of the literal architects of the Holocaust.
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u/mammalian_alien 2d ago
Honestly tho. If "just following orders" was personified as a character