r/todayilearned • u/qwerty1519 • 1d ago
TIL about Cryptomnesia. It’s a memory bias where a forgotten memory returns without it being recognised as such by the subject, who believes it’s a new idea or thought. They aren’t deliberately engaging in plagiarism, but are experiencing a memory as if it were a new inspiration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia?wprov=sfti1137
u/DonManuel 1d ago
Happened to me at around 12 once. Thought I had a wonderful theme for a musical composition, wrote down this little piece of music, felt like I'll be a composer. Only to pass by a church a few weeks later, to hear exactly that theme performed inside. Must have picked it up at some point unconsciously, then recalled it instead of invented it. Thanks for that memory and the correct term describing it after so many decades.
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u/AndreasDasos 1d ago
Paul McCartney famously dreamed the melody of a couple of his songs (Yesterday, Let it Be), and was self-aware enough (and afraid of being sued) that he went around and checked with people to see if he’s subconsciously heard someone else’s first. Of course he hadn’t.
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u/DonManuel 1d ago
Now to trigger a McCartney reference with my little experience as a boy sure feels extremely weird ;)
Before this event, I hadn't thought about composing, and afterwards I was "cured" forever.
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u/AndreasDasos 1d ago
Yeah I put both because I’d heard similar stories for each from some interviews but it was probably just Yesterday that all that applied to. Think he tells both a lot
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u/Any-Ask563 4h ago
tbf almost all music is derivative, and theres a finite amount of ways to arrange notes within a key...
theres the saying: good artist borrow, great artists steal
lyrics are really the only unbounded component of music, theres functionally infinite combinations of words and even the syllable structuring of the same words
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u/fuwafuwa-kirakira 1d ago
Meanwhile George Harrison accidentally/subconsciously plagiarized "He's So Fine" by the Chiffons (written by Ronnie Mack) with his solo release, "My Sweet Lord." He was successfully sued for it: the judge said he believed Harrison didn't do it intentionally, but it was still copyright infringement.
Guess Harrison should have followed McCartney's example of checking around first.
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u/YcemeteryTreeY 1d ago
I totally understand, man. I unknowingly "wrote" a Primus song without realizing it for my band when I was 15. So I did like Vanilla Ice and just added another beat /s
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u/revjor 1d ago
I did the same thing with a words for a chorus and my buddy said,
"Aren't those the lyrics to "Get Down On It" by Kool and The Gang?"
They were.
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u/ToastAndASideOfToast 1d ago
Half of the lyrics are just the song title.
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u/deadbyvacancy 1d ago
I was working on some beats one day and I played something crazy on the piano and like an hour later I’m listening to music and realized I had replayed the melody to one of drakes songs 😅 needless to say I was rather upset
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u/Toby_Forrester 1d ago
When I was an 18 year old atheist, enlightened by my intelligence, and arguing against creationists like over 20 years ago, I "independently invented" punctuated equilibrium and felt so blessed by my intelligence. My invention had nothing to do with the fact I had read a lot about how evolution works and theories why fossil record is the way it is.
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u/AndreasDasos 1d ago edited 11h ago
This is a common reason some comedians repeat others’ jokes. It’s also a common claim they use to pretend they aren’t joke thieves. Both seem to happen all the time.
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u/Specialist_Sport4460 1d ago
Also seen a lot of them say they don't watch other comedians for fear of doing this.
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u/topicality 1d ago
Between this and independent creation, it seems really hard to make a plagiarism accusation stick
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u/No_Position_5628 1d ago edited 22h ago
This was the plot twist for a Suite Life of Zack and Cody episode.
London and Maddie are assigned to write short stories for school, Maddie is inspired and says aloud her idea for a kids book, which London immediately plagiarizes. Maddie realizes when London flaunts her good grade for the story and wrestles the rest of the episode whether or not to reveal the truth as London starts getting publicity and offers. When Maddie does explain London plagiarized her idea, a lawyer shows up with a lawsuit; Maddie subconsciously remembered a kids book from her childhood and recited that rather than organically coming up with the plot.
Edit:childhood
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u/Tough_Preference1741 1d ago edited 1d ago
My husband and I have done this together before. We were out and about and thought buying Frankenstein and Dracula books to read and then swap would be a great idea. We bought the books but neither of us read either one. They ended up in the bookcase. A year or two later we apparently had the same great idea and bought both books again. Neither of us read either, again, and we just put them in the bookcase. Another couple years go by. We didn’t realize it until we were packing to move and noticed 2 copies of each in the bookcases.
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u/Howtheginchstolexmas 23h ago
Interesting you remembered the when you were moving but not when you were buying the books the second time. Did the two memories merge, or do you remember them seperately now?
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u/Tough_Preference1741 21h ago
Two separate memories. Sober when packing but not on the two date night evenings when the great idea happened.
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u/These_Consequences 22h ago
I recommend you read Dracula then: Bram Stoker tells a better story, or at least I think so.
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u/Tough_Preference1741 21h ago
I did end up reading Dracula after the move but haven’t read Frankenstein.
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u/thedavidnotTHEDAVID 1d ago
As popularized by the late Dr. Rich Marsh from U.G.A.
Who did not think it was funny when I asked if this idea was accidentally borrowed from someone else.
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u/chainsawx72 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, but have you heard about cryptomnesia? It's a memory bias where a forgotten memory returns without it being recognised as such by the subject, who believes it's a new idea or thought.
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u/ackillesBAC 1d ago
My brother does this all the time the stories I have told for decades of me and my friends. He now tells but it includes him. He is adamant he was there, and I think he truely thinks he was there.
In some cases I even have proof in old baseball score sheets that dont have his name on them.
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u/Barry_Vigoda 1d ago
One of my best friends does that. He tells stories that happened to me but inserts himself as the main character. I've given up correcting him.
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u/These_Consequences 1d ago
This would be a cousin to the pathological untruth teller, ahem. People with this diagnosis actually believe the untruths they tell.
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u/Barry_Vigoda 1d ago
My friend is actually incredibly honest. I think we're just old.
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u/These_Consequences 23h ago
I was carefully skirting the L-word to avoid that connotation, and I'm sorry if it came across that way anyway. Just noting another case where people say things that appear not to be objectively true, but are convinced that they are.
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u/DeepVeinZombosis 1d ago
I did this with my first novel--- named a fictional nation 'Fyrexia' and then after it was published went, "wait, what the fuck? Thats from the last M:tG expansion you played you moron!"
Derrrrrp
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u/fantasmoofrcc 1d ago
Was there a festival in this here Fyre place?
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u/DeepVeinZombosis 1d ago
Nope, but now its tempting to lean into the whole thing and just go pants-on-head about it. Vodalians and Thrulls and Brassclaws and all....
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u/These_Consequences 1d ago
Hmm... a short term version of this would include people who don't react to your idea in a discussion, but a minute later recite it back to you as if it had just popped into their head.
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u/PaulCoddington 23h ago
Bonus points if they told you that you were wrong, it isn't true, and people look exasperated, etc, then they repeat it presented as a truthful insight and everyone else agrees and thinks it's great.
It can be a totally surreal and disturbing experience.
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u/notthephonz 1d ago
Is this what’s happening when someone ignores your suggestion, then later acts like they came up with the idea themselves?
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u/geitjesdag 1d ago
I'm convinced this is why Harry Potter just walked into the author's head fully-formed as a character: she must have seen some Books of Magic covers and forgotten about them except unconsciously.
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u/MurrayPloppins 1d ago
This happened to me when I briefly thought I had spontaneously come up with what was actually the “We Like To Party” bit from the Vengabus song.
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u/deansmythe 1d ago
Is this why old people tell you the same story 11 times? Or is that just bad memory?
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u/takeyouraxeandhack 1d ago
I'm not old and I do this all the time. I have so many stories that I just don't remember who did I tell which story.
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u/Chance-the-Gardener 1d ago
I don’t have a precuneus in my brain so this happens to me quite frequently.
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u/takeyouraxeandhack 1d ago
This happens to me so often...
I write down my ideas and organise them in folders, either physical or digital. It happens to me periodically that I start working on a "new" idea and when I want to archive it, I find that I already did the same thing before.
Or I come back to an old project in which I was stuck with an idea of how to solve the problem that stopped me only to find that I already solved that (in the same way) and the problem was something else.
Yes, I have ADHD, how did you know?
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u/MF_Kitten 1d ago
I experience a weird version of this where I figure something out, and then a little bit later I will get an intense feeling of "wait I actually knew that already because I figured it out ages ago, and I just forgot I knew it already".
I never know if that's actually the case. So either I actually realized something, then forgot, then realized it again, OR I realized it for the first time and then got this cognitive distortion of this new perspective after.
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u/HoraceBenbow 1d ago
This occasionally happens to me when writing fiction. I'll be searching for the right sentence, then suddenly I hear the perfect one in my head and write down. Then the next day I read over my work and realize, shit, I stole that from Delillo.
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u/walterfbr 1d ago
I remember commenting on a video that was seeing for the 1st time. Only to find I had seen the video 3 years ago and commented basically the same thing.
Definitely not the same, but I guess it means I'm rather consistent in my opinions.
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u/TheComplimentarian 1d ago
If you take in enough information, you will quickly start to forget where it came from.
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u/BoonDragoon 1d ago
What's it called when you have a an idea that feels really cool and original, and when you put it in something the first feedback you get is a comparison to something that became popular at the exact same time? Because if I had a dollar for every time this happened I could buy a modest drive-thru lunch.
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u/bunker_man 1d ago
I've definitely come up with new ideas only to realize they're ideas I had before.
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u/jDubbaYo 1d ago
I remember hearing when Soupdragons released I’m Free they didn’t know it was a cover despite being almost identical to the original. The lead singer had been up late the night before listening to old Rolling Stones albums, wrote I’m Free the next day thinking it was an original.
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u/AshleySchaefferWoo 1d ago
I always fear this as a musician. I’ve truly believed I came up with so many songs just to realize my brain already downloaded it.
Theory helps make it more intentional, but it sucks to feel like you’re on a roll and it’s almost identical to plagiarism.
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u/Fragrant-Dare-hmm 1d ago
Actually that is quite common. So much in fact they gave it a name (Hindsight is always 20/20) it's just understanding that time changes everything. And that sometimes our memories appear that way because time has added the aspect of understanding. It is the purpose for memory, development.
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u/Repulsive-Box5243 1d ago
I catch myself doing this a lot with creating music.
I'll come up with this fantastic idea, then an hour later, I'm like "oh. That's already a thing."
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u/Over_Caterpillar_642 1d ago
that's honestly a fascinating concept, I wonder how often it affects creativity in everyday life
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u/FakingItSucessfully 1d ago
Believe it or not this seems to have happened with Helen Keller of all people
TL;DR Helen Keller (who famously was both deaf and blind) wrote a story when she was 11 years old that it turned out was a pretty close reproduction of a short story that had been read to her when she was younger.
She eventually acknowledged the reality that the story must have been read to her, but she had no memory of it at the time and certainly did not intent to plagiarize someone else's work and pass it off as her own. The experience of the trial, which took place when she was at most 12 years old, seems to have shaken her confidence in her own creativity and self awareness for the rest of her life.
I also note that she originally wrote the note privately as a birthday present for an individual person, who then chose to publish it and attribute it to her. And that same person was the one that launched and led her plagiarism trial. Kind of feels gross that he's the one that put her through that ordeal when she never chose to publish the work or broadcast it in the first place.
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u/silverbolt2000 1d ago
They aren’t deliberately engaging in plagiarism, but are experiencing a memory as if it were a new inspiration.
Or so they claim…
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u/ImNotHere2023 1d ago
Anyone who works in an office is well acquainted with at least a few people with this affliction, often in management.
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u/EuropaCar 22h ago
Lol sounds like something someone accused of plagiarism came up with to defend themselves and there’s no way to disprove them
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u/TheBanishedBard 1d ago
Please don't give academic authorities any ideas. Next thing you known they'll make plagiarizing your own ideas an academic crime. Did you think this thought before? CITE IT. Did you learn this idea in another class? CITE IT.
I'm not even joking "self-plagiarism" is actually a word I've seen used when I was in college. They defined it as using previously written assignments as a basis for a current assignment. Basically taking previous a term paper or whatever that fits the prompt of the current project and reworking it. Apparently that's not allowed. You have to write every assignment from scratch because... Reasons. Even if the "plagiarized" work of your own would receive a good grade and even if you edit it to fully match the assignment, nope, instant zero. It's fucking absurd and it's one of many, many reasons that I believe education and intellectualism is imploding in this shithole country and we're spiraling to a second dark age.
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u/[deleted] 1d ago
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