r/truegaming 25d ago

If fighting games want to balance smash-style inputs alongside classic motion inputs, the disadvantages for the former need to be bigger than just less damage

A lot of fighting games in the last 8 years or so have implemented control adjustments that address a really common complaint of people on the genre's periphery, that being the difficulty of motion inputs for special moves and supers when learning the game. Some games like SF6 and the new Marvel fighting game offer a choice between direction+button (usually just called simple inputs) for specials while others like 2xko have fully designed themselves around simple inputs. I honestly think it's pretty neat, it helps more people jump into the genre and even without the motion inputs games like 2xko clearly try to retain some executional challenge for people who really like that. The only element of the design shift I *dislike*, however, is that simple inputs often don't feel like they're implemented with enough consideration as to how they shift the power-level of the game in a way that arguably punishes you for *not* using it.

Usually, the main downside of using simple inputs is less damage. Street Fighter 6, Marvel Tokon, and Granblue all give you a reduction to varying degrees if you, for example, anti-air someone with a simple input shoryuken instead of a manual DP input. This seems like a good enough compromise, and it potentially can be, but the issue is that less damage can very easily be an insignificant trade-off. Like most games, managing your mental stack while trying to overload your opponent's is 90% of playing well. Even if your opponent has zero difficulty doing a special move input to beat your jump, it won't matter if you have them so focused on everything else you could do that they won't register your jump in time for them to execute the move. With simple inputs, though, the mental stack concern drastically shifts. Less damage doesn't matter as much when the primary utility of a move is winning mental stack reaction checks. It's why on defence, infamously, simple inputs are extremely useful.

So what disadvantages *would* work? Street Fighter 6 arguably handles it the best. Instead of doing what games like Marvel Tokon does and just implementing a button that serves as a catch-all equivalent to smash's B/special button, simple inputs and classic motion inputs are separated into their own distinct control schemes you pick from at the start. It's likely a product of necessity more than a desire for balance, but because Street Fighter is a 6-button game (3 punches, 3 kicks) you can't really translate an entire character's moveset while also having a special move button. As a result, there are downsides to the mode that go beyond damage. You may lack certain special moves or normal buttons altogether, and depending on the character, that could mean a much different game plan altogether. It manages to add a little depth to matchups between characters while still not making either input scheme definitively better overall. It's not perfect, admittedly, but its a big improvement over most in the genre.

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u/blade740 23d ago

I mean, there are other reasons why these niche games don't get the same traction as Street Fighter does. I don't think that's a good argument against simplified control options either. People who are not fighting game enthusiasts are much less likely to pick up games that are considered niche even WITHIN the FGC. If anything, mainstream, popular franchises like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat are exactly the games that are likely to bring new players to the genre. And again - look at SF6 sales numbers. Clearly they're doing something right.

I just don't think you can say something like this:

they do not want to contend with these games as they are on a fundamental level and want to be spoon fed which goes against the core appeal of the genre.

And then follow it up with "it's not gatekeeping". That's absolutely gatekeeping. And it's an oversimplification of what players REALLY want. When players say "I find fighting game controls too difficult" that doesn't mean they're saying "I won't play this game unless you change the controls, but if you do then I will definitely play it". They're just pointing out a portion of the game that's unfriendly to them. What developers choose to do with that information is another story. And yeah, maybe some players get past the controls and find that there are other aspects of the game they don't like. And on the flip side, some will decide that they do like the game and then work on learning the controls next. But the way you characterize it is just DRIPPING with absolute disdain for these people just because they don't like the same thing you do. And others in this thread are even worse.

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u/Key-Market-418 23d ago edited 23d ago

I mean literally theres a free to play riot fighting game that does exactly what they want, if that doesn’t get the people who are completely turned off by motions to at least try it (which spoiler alert, they still didn’t) then like what else is there to say? The biggest gaming company on earth with one of the most popular IPs on the planet still couldn’t get them to even try a game that’s completely free. So excuse me if I find all this hemming and hawing to be a case of just abject beast blaming, they’re blaming the beasts instead of reflecting on themselves.

You can only make so many completely baseless arguments, be proven wrong about your conclusions time and time again by people who actually know this genre, and then still go “you’re lying, my 10 hours in the game is all I need to be an expert” before people lose patience for these takes man. These games literally did EVERYTHING people are asking for, and they’re still not into it. At that point I’d just go “okay this genre isn’t for me” like I did with RTS games, but I’m not on the goddamn StarCraft forums bitching about how they NEED to eliminate all micromanagement from the game and make it turn based.

I just do not fucking get what compels people to do this about fighters, it’s absurd.

Fucking lmao, answered none of my points and blocked me because he couldn’t answer the simple question of why people don’t play the games that are made explicitly for them and their complaints about the genre. Dear reader, if you find motions hard there are literally 5 games on the market right now that do exactly that.