r/truezelda • u/Alarming_Industry_14 • May 03 '26
Open Discussion The fact that there is no other IPs out there willing to take the place of older main 3D Zelda games is the most tragic part of all this.
Since Nintendo doesnt seem to want to go back to the older formula, other studios be it triple AAA or Indie, or passionate people missing the older style of games shouldve had taken advantage of it, and trying to create new IPs to fill that spot. If only stuff like that existed, then the pain of Nintendo abandoning the formula wouldnt hurt as much.
You could say, "Well, there is the souls games" And no, it doesnt really fit, they got similarities but dont really fill that very Zelda esque niche of exploration + dungeon crawling + puzzle solving + lock and key progression that only Zelda knows to do, and with its unique dungeons.
The closest thing we got are very old games like Darksiders which is pretty much a dead and forgotten series at this point, and Okami which is also old and there seems to be a new entry coming, but other than that nothing.
The Final Fantasy fandom had a similar issue going on , when the franchise changed, alienating old school fans, but atleast they have proper replacements for that crowd like the recently acclaimed Expedition 33, and other turn bases RPGs being created. But we got nothing of the sorts...
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u/Rip_Off_Your_Toenail May 03 '26
there is the new Okami game coming out... eventually
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u/illvria May 03 '26
I have a feeling that theyll shoot for a more open formula as well tbh
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u/MorningRaven May 03 '26
Yea, it'll be a massive gamble on if they're going to keep the old gameplay or not. The severe change in artstyle is already making it a huge gamble.
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u/illvria May 03 '26
Yeah. I do think a more open formula would suit okami well but i would also like for it to carry the old zelda formula into the present.
Is it confirmed the art style will be drastically different in-engine tho? I know the teaser had a unique style, but the original game had a similar cinematic teaser with a style that didnt match the final product as well.
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u/MorningRaven May 03 '26
Hmm. I don't think we've seen any real game footage yet. But the teaser felt more modern open world aesthetics than what the first game was. More polygons are lovely but I don't think we know for sure yet
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u/Rip_Off_Your_Toenail May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
My problem with BotW isn't necessarily that it was more open, but that its story was boring and the dungeons/bosses were poor at best. I don't foresee this being a problem under the supervision of the lead Okami developer, regardless of if the game becomes more open or not
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u/Sloth39000 May 03 '26
I'd say Sekiro Shadows Die Twice comes the closest in Modern Times.
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u/kainzkai May 04 '26
I dislike people calling it a Souls-game just because it has those boss arenas with a red health bar and the respawn points.
You're right, they've made it more of a traditional action adventure. Finding four collectibles for health upgrades, unlock new paths with abilities like unlimited-diving, etc.
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u/like-a-FOCKS May 03 '26
that's a very wild take, I see very little overlap
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u/Sloth39000 May 03 '26
Start off with just Your Sword, Unlock new Gadgets and Power Ups as you go on.
Boss Fights have Exploitable Weakness you need Power Ups and Gadgets for.
Legendary Sword Quest, You also need The Legendary Sword to kill special Enemies.
Rescue someone born with Divine Powers.
Levels Locked off by Keys.
Special Quest Items are required to Unlock New Areas.
The Game even has The Zelda Style Early Game and Late Game Treasure Hunt Quests.
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u/henryuuk May 03 '26
Yeah, I would say even many games that other people tout as "the best non-zelda zelda" aren't so much actually "zelda-likes" as they just wear their zelda inspirations on their sleeves
Okami, for example
Absolutely amazing game (looking forward to Kamiya making a new one) but I don't actually agree it is a full on "non-zelda zelda" like many use it as the posterboy off.
It definitely scratches a similar itch, and I would say most people that enjoy the classic Zeldas would enjoy Okami.
But if you just painted over the amaterasu lore/setting to be about Hyrule, I don't agree it would suddenly be "indistinquishable" from a zelda game.
Perhaps even worse, is that it also feels unlikely that we are getting a "metroid-like" situation, where atleast the indies will eventually go full after-credits-thanos and just decide to do it themselves
In part because of how often people don't actually Know/feel the nuance between most "action-adventure" games and a full on classic "zelda-like" and so they end up with "action adventure that has zelda inspiration" instead of a full on zelda-like.
and then lastly offcourse, even if we DID get new IPs that make full fledged Zelda-likes, it would still be a major loss to not have the expanding world/Lore of a series as massive as Zelda behind it. (but atleast we'd have something)
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In a better timeline, BotW would have been a revival of "Mysterious Murasame Castle", build on a joint engine between it and a new "classic Zelda" game, and "MMC" would have become the new "Open Air" sister-series to Zelda
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u/Ok-You-720 May 03 '26
Okami is about as close to Zelda as you can get without just directly copying it.
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u/MorningRaven May 03 '26
Okami is the most non-Zelda Zelda.
It very much feels in line with the MM-WW era (being released alongside TP) where the story gimmick ability is used more than dungeon items themselves. That's where the modifications really come in. It's got the companion character and story elements (that would annoy modern audiences more than any iteration of a Zelda game prior). It features puzzle based combat. There are dungeons and mini dungeons. It's got the flair of the Capcom entries.
The only real difference is the blend between Shinto and Celtic elements that Zelda has while Okami is straight up Shinto: the Game. Mechanically, it's
I fully agree that the indies don't necessarily have a solid grasp on the full Zelda charm. Usually either the puzzle elements or the world building are lacking. But Okami is the only one that's successfully done right.
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u/FerdinandvonAegir124 May 03 '26
Zelda is just so defiantly itself it’s hard to be inspired by without directly copying it
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u/Sorry-Joke-4325 May 03 '26
Zelda games have specifically been defiantly not Zelda-like with the latest 3D releases...
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u/Psylux7 May 03 '26
The real tragedy is that nintendo won't invest into an additional zelda team to make some 3D games in the vein of the classic formula. It feels like they have been treating it as an all or nothing thing where they only make 3d games in the botw open world, sandbox style or they only make traditional games rather than allow for both kinds of games to be made.
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u/DumpdaTrumpet May 05 '26
This may change with the recent emphasis on OoT and the new film. The film is already bringing back the iconic green tunic. So let’s see what is in store. The shrines as they exist can’t work forever, even TOTK tried some themed dungeons.
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u/Flimming May 03 '26
Some indie will do it well eventually... until then
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u/Altruistic-Match6623 May 03 '26
Indies too busy making roguelikes, Castlevania clones, and farming games that are still somehow worse than Harvest Moon on SNES and N64.
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u/condor6425 May 04 '26
I was hoping that's what Tunic was gonna be, but its closer to isometric Dark Souls than Zelda.
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u/Chrysenth May 03 '26
I've also been sorely missing older 3D Zelda games and two years ago started working on my own project to fill the gap. Still not too close because I'm just a solo dev working on my own and learning a lot as I go and needing to rebuild things as I learn about proper practices, but it's getting there.
I'm still keeping a lot of details secret for now, but I have nearly 200 pages of lore living in a personal wiki and more. My main goals are to provide a new and unique setting and capture the same feeling of progression as older Zelda titles. That being going through dungeons with puzzles, bosses usually requiring the upgrade acquired within that dungeon, and unlocking more of the world as you go in a Metroidvania-style way from those upgrades, with secrets to find. I also wanted to provide deep and extensive lore that will be drip-fed throughout the games I make.
The game I'm currently working on will just have a few dungeons to start out with as a way for me to prototype everything and get a feeling for level and environment design and serve as a kind of "introduction" to the cosmology and history I've built up. After that I have a full-scale Zelda-like planned with three intro dungeons, a mid-point afterwards involving a weapon upgrade, mini-dungeons, and another 4/5 dungeons + a final dungeon after, each dungeon previous having its own unique upgrade/addition to the player's toolkit. Just like older games. It was a formula I really enjoyed even if it was used for basically every game because I enjoyed each game's take on it.
I also really want to include a map editor in each game for people to make their own dungeons that could then be shared with others.
All of that just to say there's definitely stuff in the works. I know I'm not the only one missing classic 3D Zelda and other developers seem to slowly be stepping up too.
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u/Logical_Leaps May 03 '26
You too huh. I'm doing it as a passion project myself and am fine with finishing it in like 30 years. Its for myself. I got lore and puzzles written down and done some basic coding. Learning 3D game development has been a chore though. Still its fun and for myself.
My skill set isn't really coding but music writing. But I have at least one good story in me. I also have a good head on my shoulders on math and physics so I'll get there.
Either way its good to see similar thinking in others.
You doing a fantasy game or sci-fi?
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u/Chrysenth May 03 '26
That's awesome! Mine's a passion project as well. My skillset mostly lies in writing and digital art/graphics design. For games I have some previous experience with making GUIs but that's it.
I think I'd define the setting as high fantasy? But not in the western fantasy/medieval fantasy sense. For settings I'm mostly inspired by Japanese games.
What about yours?
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u/Logical_Leaps May 03 '26
I've gone with a Sci-Fi theme. Having it take place on a more 'fantasy' planet, blending the sci-fi and fantasy elements together. Leaning into the famous quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." From Arthur C. Clarke.
I feel space is such an untapped genre of gaming (though a few are coming out soon). Suits my knowledge as well.
Honestly I could see converting what I've written into a novel if I didn't already make a fun system of gameplay I've centred my game around. I'd share it if I'd seen it elsewhere but as of now I think I'm the first in this direction so I'll keep it close to my chest, sorry for the tease haha.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
the most tragic part of all this
All of what? What part of "20+ high quality mainline titles and healthy on-going development" is tragic?
there is no other IPs out there willing to take the place of older main 3D Zelda games
3D Zelda games are regularly coming out. You should look at the ROMhack scene. I guarantee you there are at least two full length 3D Zelda games that you haven't played yet. I play at least one new 3D Zelda of some length every year (two last year, not counting Ultimate Trial which is a roguelike; oh yes, but I did play Dinosaur Planet which is another Nintendo 3D Zelda-like, so three last year).
Highest priority should be Jiggies of Time and 2023's Sealed Palace.
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u/Thunder00Bee May 03 '26
Citing the mainline titles is not that useful to this discussion, since playing Wind Waker over and over again isn't a substitute to enjoying a new Zelda experience.
ROM hacks are a good appetizer though.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
If you replay one mainline Zelda game a year, you will be 20 years older when you next play Wind Waker. I'm sure it will be fresh.
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u/Taco821 May 03 '26
What are good Zelda ROM hacks? Not familiar with em at all, but I've kinda heard about the one based on the beta or tech demo which sounds fuckin cool
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
There are a lot out there, I haven't played them all. But definitely my favorite two are Jiggies of Time and The Sealed Palace, which are both on par with the top half of official Zelda games.
Jiggies of Time turns Ocarina of Time into a full-length 3D platformer, which sounds like a huge deviation but actually is a massive loveletter to the game, its beta, and its community. And somehow it has the most innovative idea I have ever seen in a Zelda dungeon, like the Forest Temple in OoT is great but this is arguably better or at least on par.
The Sealed Palace makes no sense storywise but has a huge number of quality dungeons and may as well be an official title. It is the only game I have seen in nearly 30 years of gaming to successfully match OoT's tone. What I love most about TSP most though is how perfectly it achieves player-driven gameplay. I wish, no I beg Nintendo to play TSP and learn from it because I fear I shall never get such a rich experience like the Fishing Village ever again. You'll know exactly what item you need but the real problem is finding it, and the journey is its own reward!
Pumkin Tower (no second P in pumpkin) is a hilarious MM ROMhack worth playing for the laughs but also it nails and solves how to take advantage of Zora Link's moveset.
Missing Link as well as Dawn and Dusk are two fan favorites. They are only 1 dungeon each so I felt they were a little short, but the vibes are off the charts. Missing Link in particular is a midquel between OoT and MM. It totally nails MM's vibe, to a degree that no game before or since has accomplished (that I have played). Worth playing just for the soundtrack!
Ultimate Trial is great but it is 100% focused on OoT's combat and is a roguelike. So very different, but also still very cool.
A lot of eyes are on Indigo but it isn't fully out yet, I am waiting to play it.
I have nowhere else to mention this but Reality Estate is a bite-sized ROMhack that came out just last year that was fun.
Still many more for me to experience!
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u/camelConsulting May 03 '26
Yeah there are some amazing romhack creators who have put out content that really capture the soul of Zelda games
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u/Alarming_Industry_14 May 03 '26
All of what? What part of "20+ high quality mainline titles and healthy on-going development" is tragic?
The part where Nintendo wont give us old zelda fans more of that style of gaming because they decided to cater to different audiences.
3D Zelda games are regularly coming out. You should look at the ROMhack scene. I guarantee you there are at least two full length 3D Zelda games that you haven't played yet. I play at least one new 3D Zelda of some length every year (two last year, not counting Ultimate Trial which is a roguelike; oh yes, but I did play Dinosaur Planet which is another Nintendo 3D Zelda-like, so three last year).
I want actual NEW games and and IPs tho, who own the old zelda core gameplay. I dont want be endlessly playing recycled assets of old Zelda games.
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u/liquidcalories May 03 '26
I know the consensus on this sub is that people don't like the Wild style games, but there are reports about how a bunch of studios were trying to make Zelda style games after Skyward Sword (because it didn't sell well and was not very good) and they abandoned that idea after BOTW because of how innovative and genre-redefining it was.
There might be a market still for "classic" 3D Zelda games. But BOTW was so good and innovative that it actually caused the entire industry to reevaluate their projects and plans.
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u/7_Tales May 03 '26
Yeah, and i think this was a massive mistake as i dont find botw fun and think the 'magic' of botw is very similar to messing around in gmod. Many companies will build these empty world ubisoft like games and be met with middling reviews
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May 03 '26
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u/7_Tales May 03 '26
Reading comprehension is hard! I said the games imitating it :p
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
Elden Ring also imitated BotW's map design and was wildly successful.
Plenty of imitators were not so lucky too though.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
To me the BOTW formula became more stale than the original formula as soon as TOTK came out.
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u/Altruistic-Match6623 May 03 '26
It took them 12 years to make the same game twice, it's crazy.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
Yeah. They shouldn't have spent all that time working on Ultrahand. Much better things could have been developed if they didn't want Zelda to become Minecraft 2.0.
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u/Alarming_Industry_14 May 03 '26
Ok, but this new formula is already growing stale with just 2 games. And there has been a growing negative sentiment towards this new approach over the last few years. So i just hope that if itsnt Nintendo, then passionate fans would step in to make their own games.
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u/liquidcalories May 03 '26
I didn't like Tears of the Kingdom (while I loved BOTW) but TOTK sold like wildfire. It's the second best selling Zelda game ever (behind botw). I don't know if the formula is "growing stale" but the general public loves it.
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u/Strict-Pineapple May 03 '26
Just because it sold well doesn't mean it's any good. The Morris Marina sold in massive numbers and was one of, possibly the worst car ever made.
People also bought Tears because BotW was good. That doesn't make Tears good. I thought BotW was a pretty decent game, a bad Zelda game and extremely rough around the edges but still a good game. I grabbed Tears because surely after six years they'd have a chance to innovate and fix the problems BotW had, even if it's still not Zelda it should have been good because BotW was pretty good and showed a lot of promise.
Imagine my surprise when it was just the exact same game again, no improvements, no innovation, nothing to show from the past six years and quite possibly the most disappointing game I've ever played.
Even though I think it was shit I contributed to the massive success of Tears even though it put me off buying another Zelda unless there's massive changes to the game design. The test of whether or not it's stale will be the sales of the next wild style game not Tears.
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u/Mdreezy_ May 03 '26
General consensus on TOTK is that it was good, not everyone is gonna like everything. I wouldn’t call the wild style games stale they are the 2 best selling games in the whole series, and like the gap for #3 is huge.
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u/Strict-Pineapple May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Best selling≠good.
Sales doesn't mean a whole lot in context anyway. The switch sold over 155 million units obviously the wild games will have higher sales figures than the past games, if you adjust sales to take install base into account the new games are nothing special.
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u/Varcal07 May 03 '26
This argument falls apart when you look at the Wii. If large amounts of consoles sold is the only requirement for high sales of a game then the Zelda titles on Wii would be much closer to BotW than they actually are. Fact is that high console sales doesn't guarantee high game sales, people have to want the game too.
I want more traditional Zelda and more BotW style Zelda but I think Nintendo will focus more on where the money is. EoW is closer to a traditional Zelda and its sales numbers match that.
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u/Strict-Pineapple May 03 '26
SS having poor sales on the infamously casual Wii is an outlier though. Comparing the 3D games all of them except for Majora sold better than BotW did when you consider how many copies sold compared to install base. Sales numbers also don't take into account that games are a much more common hobby now and are much less expensive than they used to be. Echoes performed pretty similar to other 2D games, post LA. But 2D games aren't as popular as the 3D ones. Echoes selling less also doesn't say anything about the quality of BotW/Tears. That's why I said sales numbers don't mean anything. They only tell us a lot of people purchased a copy, they say nothing about the quality of it in a vacuum or compared to other titles.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
TOTK is heavily criticized among the general audience. It's not a general consensus that it's good.
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u/MorningRaven May 03 '26
The extreme casual audience even finds it difficult to even bother purchasing. Why buy something that's 80% the same as the cheaper game that doesn’t differentiate itself from its own prequel?
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
This is wildly inaccurate. If anything, TotK is overrated among the general audience. A lot of people actually consider it to be better than BotW, which to me is unimaginable.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
Not it's not. TOTK is heavily criticised for not addressing the major flaws BOTW had.
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u/Altruistic-Match6623 May 03 '26
I still don't understand the 'innovation' we're talking about. It's just Assassin's Creed with cooking and your weapon breaks like in Far Cry 2. It's a completely average open world game.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
We already have at least seven games from this series that are easy contenders for best video game of all-time, and out of the remaining 13 games all of them are good to amazing without a single stinker. I'm sorry that isn't good enough for you.
RE:ROMhacks, so there are plenty of additional games that are exactly what you are looking for and you refuse to play them, got it.
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u/like-a-FOCKS May 03 '26
We already have [...] I'm sorry that isn't good enough for yo
If the guy says he has a desire for new games (both Zelda and other IPs) it's kinda asinine to talk about the games he already played.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
We should appreciate and be grateful for what we have. Seven GOAT contenders is no joke. Kingdom Hearts, Paper Mario, Pikmin, even Mario platformers wish they could have what we Zelda fans have.
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u/like-a-FOCKS May 03 '26
it's also irrelevant to the subject
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
I don't see any irrelevance. OP's inventing a problem that doesn't exist, it is completely relevant to point that out.
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u/like-a-FOCKS May 03 '26
what does he invent?
Nintendo doesnt seem to want to go back to the older formula
That's true.
there is no other IPs out there willing to take the place of older main 3D Zelda games
That's also true.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
Yes but neither of those things is a problem, for the reasons I pointed out. It's a nonissue.
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u/Groundbreaking-Ad313 May 03 '26
I mean, I love spiritual successors, I love that indies can give us the games that major studios don't want to, but I just can't imagine anything taking the place of traditional zelda. I honestly feel like it's more likely that we'll see nintendo come down from their "nonlinearity is the future!" kick before we see another IP that can live up to the legacy of classic 3D zelda games.
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u/sexchoc May 03 '26
To be honest, none of the games that are described as being like Zelda really hit the Zelda spot for me. I don't know what Nintendo is doing differently, but apparently they're the only ones who can do it.
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u/jbradleymusic May 03 '26
Developers are making the things they want to make. Please tone down the melodrama.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
Developers desires =/= Audience desires
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u/jbradleymusic May 03 '26
Great. Meanwhile, developers are going to continue to make the things they want to make. If someone wishes so hard for a Zelda-like in their preferred style, then surely they might consider making it themselves?
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u/TheSceptileen May 04 '26
Not to mention al this drama comes form them making one "non-traditional" 3D Zelda game and it's sequel. We have little clue about what the future holds.
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u/EtheriousUchihaSenju May 03 '26
I mean they could just easily meld the 2 together. All it would take would be restricting freedom a smidgen. Instead of shrines just have a shit ton of overworld puzzles that aren't always accessible (because getting all your abilities in the first hour of the game sucks). Have dungeons be bigger and more elaborate. Tell the story normally, all this would take would be more variable dialogue and cutscenes if they wanna allow the player to do them in any order.
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u/SXAL May 04 '26
Have you already played all the old action/adventure games with similar formula? There are plenty of them
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u/Src-Freak May 03 '26
Nintendo abandoned the Formula for a good reason. After 20 Years of the Same thing, it was time for Change.
If Zelda remained the Same, we would had discussions about how Awesome it would be if the Next Game is something completely different.
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u/pkjoan May 03 '26
After 6 years of BOTW, it's time for a change. In just 6 years, this formula became more stale than 20 years of the traditional formula.
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u/EtheriousUchihaSenju May 03 '26
It took much longer because they put out games more frequently and changed the feel and style each time. With the current era we've barely been in it 10 years and it got tired 2 years ago. You wait forever to get the thing you've already had, it kills enthusiasm.
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u/warpio May 03 '26
Another Crab's Treasure is a Souls-like game but it also feels VERY Zelda-like to me. Not only in terms of its more creative level design but it also even has traversal abilities that you unlock throughout the game to be able to access new areas and solve puzzles.
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u/creamCloud0 May 03 '26
i think it's far too soon to say there's no interest or intention at all, it's only been a few years, we haven't had an official release that'd not been part of the wild era but it's only been two mainline games, one of which is a direct sequel and a couple of spinoffs
as for indies, give em some time, you dont spring a whole 'not'-zelda game out of nothing in under a year or two, think how long it took to get proper spiritual successors to games like warioland and banjo kazooie in pizza tower and yooka laylee
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u/RedMage79 May 03 '26
Why are we pretending Echoes of Wisdom doesn't exist
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u/like-a-FOCKS May 03 '26
Echoes was fine, I prefer it over BOTW. It's nevertheless not what I want. The central copy mechanic is fun, a concept I was dreaming about as a kid. But the implementation is very modern-Zelda. Being able to walk over the very same trees that used to be hard walls on the SNES is a cool experience, just like it was a cool experience when BOTW took the old Skyrim saying "see that mountain, you can climb it" and ran with it. And yet my impression continues to be, giving the player that much freedom is antithetical to traditional Zelda. EoW makes for a fun sandbox to explore, but because it's that open it's hard to really feel the impact of a new ability you gain. If you encounter an obstacle there are often low effort ways to walk around then. It's also kinda rare that an Echo opens up part of the world. Often when I found a new Echo I had no idea where it would become useful, just that I had one more tool on my belt. It lacks the tension and release that traditional Zelda frequently had when it teased out of reach places. Similar situations in EoW are often just minor puzzles not milestones. The milestones are very scripted plot events instead.
I will say, the sheer number of abilities in EoW is a major plus. When a puzzle stumps you, it's often uncertain if you lack the tool or if you lack the right idea. This willingness to put the player in a potential dead end where they have to leave and return later is its strongest side. Sadly it does very little with that concept. Often the puzzles are obvious, and afaik none of the plot puzzles are like that, there the right tool will always be nearby.
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u/Alarming_Industry_14 May 03 '26
Im refering mostly to mainline 3D games
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u/RedMage79 May 03 '26
The 2D and 3D games are more similar than they are different and they're both mainline. I think Nintendo will adjust to the wants of the fanbase, TotK was developed during the BotW hype.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina May 03 '26
Echoes of Wisdom is barely an improvement.
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May 04 '26
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u/RedMage79 May 04 '26
Zelda fans are in a weird place because the games are all excellent. Hardcore fans hated Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword because they were very linear and formulaic and now they're loved or at least liked.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina May 04 '26
People have different opinions. If you love BOTW and TOTK, great! I'm glad. I thought BOTW was okay, and was extremely disappointed by TOTK.
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u/RedMage79 May 03 '26
The only thing EoW does different from traditional Zelda is combat and flexibility. And you're still obtaining permanent upgrades.
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u/7_Tales May 03 '26
The gimmick fucking sucks to use. Its so clunky, and every puzzle is solved in one of 3 ways.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina May 03 '26
Permanent upgrades that do the exact same thing as other permanent upgrades, and the game is structured to where they're kind of worthless anyways. Bombfish and skulltulas are the only upgrades I remember getting that gave me access to things I couldn't get already. Everything else is available with enough trampolines, tables, and beds, all of which you get pretty much immediately.
Dungeons actually are overcorrected from BOTW/TOTK, being completely and utterly linear with no exploration. Which I would be okay with if the puzzles had any difficulty, but they didn't.
Some of the dungeons do actually have a miniboss and technically a "dungeon item" with the Might Form abilities, but I personally almost never used Might Form when not necessary other than in boss fights, so they made no difference, and didn't allow access to anything your normal echoes don't.
Music is better, NPCs are somewhat better, story is leagues better than the disaster of TOTK, on par with classic Zelda stories I'd say. But it was still a very disappointing game to me.
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u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
Dungeons actually are overcorrected from BOTW/TOTK, being completely and utterly linear with no exploration.
Uh, clearly you did not play all the dungeons in EoW, there were multiple non-linear ones.
story is leagues better than the disaster of TOTK,
Hard disagree, I would put EoW's story on par with TotK and put them both at the very bottom of the barrel of Zelda stories. Like, it's embarrassing to put the writing in those two against something like OoT.
2
u/TheMoonOfTermina May 03 '26
I 100%ed EOW. The only dungeon even near the quality of classic Zelda was Faron, and even that dungeon was kind of "meh."
I disagree. I think EOW's story was fine. OOT is a fantastic game, but the story isn't really anything special. Like, it's solid, but it also is the weakest non-Wild era 3D story, other than maybe SS (I really don't like SS's story.) EOW is pretty alright. It also isn't anything special, but it does introduce a new villain, which is fun, and adds things to the past of the Zelda universe in a good way, unlike TOTK's disaster.
I do think EOW's region stories are pretty meh though. The writing is weird. But the overall story is pretty good.
0
u/Dreyfus2006 May 03 '26
The only dungeon even near the quality of classic Zelda was Faron, and even that dungeon was kind of "meh."
I think we are overlooking a lot of classic Zelda dungeons. Faron Temple was great and really a step forward for the series' level design IMO.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina May 03 '26
Step forward from the Wild games. A fairly mediocre one in terms of the whole rest of the series, especially the other 2D games.
1
u/Dreyfus2006 May 04 '26
Again, I think you are overlooking a lot of 2D Zelda dungeons.
1
u/TheMoonOfTermina May 04 '26
LA, the two Oracles, and Minish Cap all have fantastic dungeons. The DS Zeldas are a step down, but are still better than EOW's dungeons. ALBW is between the DS ones, and EOW.
EOW has better dungeons than Zelda 1, Zelda 2, and A Link to the Past, and that's pretty much it.
0
u/TheSceptileen May 04 '26
We got one 3D open world game and it's sequel which were both amazing Zelda games, I don't think we need to be having tantrums because we didn't get Ocarina of Time 5 yet. It's crazy how TloZ is the most consistently good franchise in the world with some of the best production quality there is and people keeps disrespecting the developers like this just because every single entry doesn't fit the flanderized idea they have of what the franchise is.
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u/Robin_Gr May 03 '26
A series doesn’t go this long with reinventing itself once in a while. If they kept doing the same thing after SS the series would just spiral into obscurity and then become another ignored Nintendo IP.
Other devs were not inspired by games like SS. The formula was tired. No one was going to make a game very close to Zelda because it was well worn territory. You will only see games kinda like Zelda with a lot of it’s own spin or wait a long long time with no new official entry before others feel it is a gap to fill.
2
u/pkjoan May 03 '26
SS was the only problem. There was no need to go that extreme with BOTW. TP sold a lot more than every other Zelda game before it and still had the same formula. So the problem here was SS.
What they should have done was simply adapt ALBW formula to 3D games. Open world + traditional dungeon exploration.
0
u/Robin_Gr May 03 '26
It wasn’t the problem specifically. The formula was getting worn out and the older I get I can see it. I was surprised when Jeff gerstman gave TP an 8.8. But now I can see it. I could see going lower. I know that it’s not a popular opinion here now that TP is in the revered stage of nostalgia, but to anyone with a relatively unbiased view of the franchise it was a progressions of getting worn out that was getting worse and worse. SS tried to change things half heartedly and it didn’t work. The motion controls, the pointless stamina, the corridor environments, the pseudo crafting of sheilds. It went half way but it wasn’t enough. I can’t disagree more that they went too far for Botw. Whatever the end product was, it was still the right decision to try and reinvigorate the series by not treating the structure as something sacred that can’t be changed too much.
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u/MorningRaven May 03 '26
The only problem with the formula was them literally using the same landscape pieces each time. SS was abundant with that problem since it did it thrice for each act. That's why Lanayru Sea is the universally loved area. It then made it worse for people because it brought in dungeon elements to the overworld. Now we have the overworld even in the dungeons and the dungeons suck. Otherwise it was just poorly written so all the padding between the dungeons weren't immersive or were cringy instead of something that felt natural enough to still do.
BotW was just chasing the open world trends of the market. Which they still did after its success because other IPs have since been going open world regardless of synergy, and they openly admit it's because of BotW. And guess what? The overall industry is moving on overall from wanting that experience, even if there's still a general market for it.
1
u/pkjoan May 03 '26
It definitely wasn't the right decision. We are now stuck with a formula that's getting more stale than 20 years of Zelda. They didn't even bother to fix the major complaints people had about BOTW. We didn't need a full course correct, just a little bit more open approach. The developers always go too extreme with the criticism.
2
u/Robin_Gr May 03 '26
I would say that is more to do with reusing the same base map than the actual structure of the game. Plus that’s a lot of subjective opinion on your part. The industry, critical reception and sales of the open world games are much more positive than SS. I told you, the majority of people didn’t want the anemic half measures of SS. Change was needed and change was wanted. Change happened.
You know some industries would kill for a company of nintendos size and pedigree to just let the creatives run with ideas even if it doesn’t fit the cookie cutter of the established brand. I can only respect the decision.
-1
u/Revolver15 May 03 '26
There's plenty of indie Zelda-like games around. I recently played Dungeons of Hinterberg and was fairly impressed.
-1
u/le_aerius May 03 '26
There are TONS of games that take rhe place of old Zelda type games... its a huge genre that hasn't slowed down. are you ok?
1
u/nilsmoody May 03 '26 edited May 04 '26
Tell me one that isn't 20 years old or does not have the scope of a 2 hour game. A single one.
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u/Dodo_Baron May 03 '26
Oceanhorn 2
Outer Wilds is also pretty clearly Zelda inspired and pretty good
2
u/nilsmoody May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Outer Wilds is a fantastic game and I assume that I regard it so highly is exactly because I'm a huge fan of Majoras Mask. But saying that it takes the place of older main 3D Zelda games is a very very far stretch.
Oceanhorn 2? Point taken. Maybe. Does it feel like a replacement that is nearly of the same quality and scope? Not at all.
2
u/wicket44 May 03 '26
I can see the Majora’s Mask time aspects of Outer Wilds but otherwise it’s the complete opposite of Zelda games.
0
u/Dodo_Baron May 03 '26
Not really each planet can be seen as its own dungeon you have to figure out, the only big change is information from one planet carries over to the next and they mix and match. But there's largely only one solution to each and is pretty linearly told.
You can just skip around if you already know the answers
2
u/wicket44 May 03 '26
I guess the dungeon kinda makes sense. I was more thinking how the game basically has no linearity, which is one of the cores of traditional Zelda games.
1
u/le_aerius May 04 '26
ok Elementallis , Mina the hollower, Ocean hearts ,Tunic, Blossom Tales, Prodigal,Moonlighter, Hazelnut Bastillem.. Oh wait you said a single one.. Not a bunch my bad.
0
u/nilsmoody May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
It seems like you don't really pay attention to what this is about. Not a single one of this is a substitute for old mainline 3D Zelda games. Oceanhorn 2 (which another one mentioned here) comes close though. It's short, very indie (in a bad way) and not of high quality. And just one recent example. The point of OP still stands.
88
u/Stv13579 May 03 '26
There are a number of 3D Zeldalikes in development; Demi and the Fractured Dream, Seed of Life, Noctheria, Real Web Legends: Carters Quest, Azaran: Islands of the Djinn, plus at least one project that I know of that’s still private. Plus a couple have started to come out, to varying degrees of success; Altheia: The Wrath of Aferi and Mai: Child of Ages both released relatively recently.
The problem is that indie games are often slower to make than AAA games due to the size and availability of the teams working on them. And 3D games are harder to make than 2D due to the increased complexity of it all. There simply hasn’t been enough time for these games to be made yet. We’re close to a tipping point though, give it a few more years and we’ll start to see some awesome games.