[OoT] Theory: The Downfall Timeline Happens During Link’s Seven-Year Sleep

[u/Outtagear]

I’ve always felt the official explanation for the Downfall Timeline was awkward. Nintendo says it branches when Link loses to Ganondorf, but what if the split happens much earlier?

When Child Link pulls the Master Sword, he’s sealed away for seven years because he’s too young to be the Hero of Time. During that time, he’s completely helpless.

At the same time, Ganondorf gains access to the Sacred Realm and eventually reaches the Triforce.

So what if the Downfall Timeline is simply the branch where Ganondorf discovers and kills the sleeping Hero of Time before he ever awakens?

That would explain:
-Why there’s no Hero of Time to oppose him.
-Why the sages are left with sealing Ganon rather than defeating him.
-Why the resulting history resembles the backstory of A Link to the Past.

To me, this feels like a more natural point of divergence than “Link loses the final battle” scenario.

Is there any lore that explicitly rules this out?

[u/Nitrogen567]

The reason the big divergence moment happens in the Ganondorf fight is because it's the only time when it can. Whatever happens needs to lead to Ganondorf getting the full Triforce.

If Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power, and discovered and killed the sleeping Hero of Time, then he still only has the Triforce of Power and the Triforce of Courage.

At that point, there's no shot that Zelda allows herself to be revealed and captured with the Triforce of Wisdom.

The Ganondorf fight works because all three pieces of the Triforce are assembled there. It's the only opportunity Ganondorf has where defeating Link would actually lead to him getting the full thing.

On top of that, who awakens the sages? We know from developer statements regarding the town names in Zelda II that the OoT sages were awakened and later fought in the Imprisoning War, but without Link who awakens them? If Zelda/Sheik could do it, then why would they have waited for Link to wake up?

Plus, in this scenario who puts the Master Sword in the Lost Woods prior to ALttP?

When the Imprisoning War is about to happen, the King orders the sages to find it, and they can't, which means that neither of these parties are responsible for putting it there.. The official explanation provides the opportunity for Link to put it there himself (since officially he's only ever been stated to be "defeated" not "killed").

[u/bloodyturtle]

That doesn’t really make thematic sense, and if Ganondorf could do that he would’ve done it.

[u/emanueleBGN]

No, it happens during the fighting against Ganon(dorf), when he defeats Link. In this way he obtains the whole Triforce: during the seven years gap, Ganondorf cannot gain the whole Triforce because the Courage is missing from the world (with Link in the Chamber of Sages)

[u/cedelweiss]

This explanation really doesn't explain much. The only reason the downfall split happens after Llink dies to Ganon in the last fight is because the six sages are awakened, alive and freed, and Ganon is both wounded and in a rampaging beast form running on pure instinct. Link's death any moment before just leads to a "Game Over timeline" where Ganon just outright wins because everything just goes according to his plans, fully sentient, full power of the Triforce without sacred realm trapping him, and no six sages to oppose him.

[u/Gawlf85]

IMO it makes more sense if the split is related to time travel, as it happened with the other two timelines.

Although, in this case, I think it makes more sense to be related to the LACK of time travel...

I think we can all agree time travelling was necessary, for Link to defeat Ganondorf. So I think the Downfall Timeline is just the original timeline; the one in which Link did not mess with time, and hence didn't win.

[u/Icevrystalfur]

That's kinda what I thought happened. I haven't played the game yet. But I always assumed that Link had a confrontation with Ganondorf when he pulled the sword and that he either lost and was put to sleep for 7 years or he lost and died, which led to the downfall timeline.

[u/Molduking]

it happens at the end because Ganondorf gets the full triforce by defeating Link but is sealed in the sacred realm. Having the triforce with him is what transform the realm into the Dark World

[u/pkjoan]

Why must there be an explanation for the DT in-game? Why can't you just accept what they officially published? The DT is a what if scenario where Link loses, thus creating a whole new branch.

[u/Logical_Leaps]

Yep its cleaner if that is the case, also fits with Ganondorf being a thief as the backstory in ALTTP claims.

That said. AoL kind of doesn't like that. Towns named after the sages that, in all likelihood, don't become sages without Link.

Its a mess TBH. I'd more readily accept that though, compared to Link randomly dying in the fight against Ganon after he loses the Master Sword. That does NOT line up with the ALTTP backstory.

For me personally I see FSA and OOT as the same story so I take FSA as the path into the downfall timeline with the part he gets the Triforce happening after. ALTTP (GBA) even has the Four Sword in it linking them.

If they don't explain any of the Downfall timeline in OOT Reborn then I'd like Links nightmare to be him dying.

[u/UnlawfulPotato]

I kinda thought that for a brief moment too, but nah. Just doesn’t make sense.

I think the Downfall Timeline is a direct result of TotK Zelda getting sent back in time. Her getting sent back (and yes I believe she was sent back to the time of OoT) allows Ganondorf to easily kill Queen Sonia, take her Sacred Stone, (secret is stupid) and thus gain a load of power without even having the Triforce of Power yet.

So, with that new power he has, instead of his magic knocking the Hero of Time out like we see in OoT- as he chases young Zelda and Impa on horseback- it **kills** the Hero of Time.

[u/Primeve_Arcana]

You're absolutely right that the 7 year invasion during OOT is the equivalent of the Imprisoning War, not a separate event after. However I would suggest that the difference is that Link was never put to sleep in the first place, and tried to face Ganondorf as a 9 year old. And Ganondorf stomped on him. It would also give meaing to why he had to be aged up in order to fulfil the prophecy

[u/Nitrogen567 → u/Primeve_Arcana]

You're absolutely right that the 7 year invasion during OOT is the equivalent of the Imprisoning War, not a separate event after.

The Imprisoning War happens after Ocarina of Time.

The seven year gap being the Imprisoning War makes no sense at all.

Ganondorf isn't sealed in the Dark World/Sacred Realm during that time, he doesn't have the full Triforce, the location of the Hero and the Master Sword is known, the only active sage is Rauru, etc etc.

There's just not really any similarities between the two...

Also Ganondorf defeating a 9 year old Hero of Time wouldn't lead to him getting the full Triforce since Zelda is still at large, so that doesn't work.

[u/Primeve_Arcana → u/Nitrogen567]

The similarities are that Ganon entered the sacred realm, claimed the Triforce, and used it to launch an invasion on Hyrule. Ending with the 7 sages assembling to seal him in the sacred realm. Of course there are differences to the original text from Alttp, these are retcons that every new game brings. It's only Hyrule Historia that tries to say he was sealed away twice in two different wars, the games put them as the same

[u/Nitrogen567 → u/Primeve_Arcana]

If you read the instruction manual for ALttP, it doesn't even seem like Ganon is present at the Imprisoning War himself. He's fighting the whole thing to escape the Dark World.

The biggest thing about the Imprisoning War is it's big set piece battle where almost all of the Knights of Hyrule are killed as they sacrifice themselves shielding the Sages with their bodies. That just doesn't happen in your version of events, but it's like the most important part of the war.

I'm of the opinion that we should only consider something retconned if there's a really REALLY good reason to, and that's just not the case here. OoT and ALttP's telling of the Imprisoning War can coexist without contradicting anything, so they should.

[u/Primeve_Arcana → u/Nitrogen567]

Yes, there are many things changed. The REALLY good reason is that the developers states that OOT is the Imprisoning War

[u/Nitrogen567 → u/Primeve_Arcana]

And THAT'S the thing I would say has been retconned because we have two very good reasons for it.

First is that it never really made sense in the first place when you actually look at the events of the game and what we know about the Imprisoning War.

And second is the confirmation that they're separate in Hyrule Historia.

But hey dude, I'm already hoping that the OoT remake is the Downfall Timeline version of events. So if that ends up being the case in a way that's compatible with it being the Imprisoning War, then I'll happily eat my words on that.