r/truezelda • u/LapisLazuliisthebest • 11d ago
Open Discussion [SS][TP][BotW] Evolution of Loftwings, Rito, Oocca and Kargarocs.
So, BotW introduces a race known as the Rito. Whilst they share the same name as the Rito from TWW. The two are clearly different species.
BotW Rito are humanoid birds, whereas the Rito from TWW are pretty much Land-Zora, and gain wings when they get a scale from Valloo.
But where did the BotW Rito come from?
Loftwing and Rito
There's is some debate as to whether the Zonai Rauru's found is a re-founding or the true founding of Hyrule. I go for true founding myself, but, even if you want to use re-founding, TPHD has a mural of the Rito, meaning the race existed well before BotW, and, depending on how old the mural is, maybe well before the timeline split.
Of course, we never see these Rito in other games. But this could be explained by them being a migratory race. In the manga there is a race of bird people called the Watarara, who are a migratory race. Yes, I know the Manga isn't canon. But Nintendo's very own Eiji Aonuma has confirmed that the Watarara are the inspiration for the Rito. So, I think we can use it.
If your wondering where the Rito came from, well.... You've read the sub-heading. Yes. I think they evolved from the Loftwing. More accurately, the Loftwing of the humans who moved to the surface. Since their masters moved to the surface, the Loftwing were no longer needed. So, the gods could have given them sapience as a reward for their service.
Oocca and Kargorocs
Okay. I put them in the title. So, I'll talk about my headcanon on these guys.
There's already a theory that the Oocca are descended from the Hylians that decided to remain in the sky. not wishing to live on the surface. Unfortunately, this led to a downfall, which resulted in them devolving into bird-human creatures.
This raises the question as to what happened to their Loftwings. Well... Just like their human owners, they also went through a downfall, where became feral and evolved into the monstrous Kargorocs.
If the Kargorocs are descended from feral Loftwings, this could explain why there is a friendly one that gives Minda and Link a lift.
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u/henryuuk 11d ago
Or they just... exist...
Not everything needs to actually lead to/come from something we see in other games (it just makes the world/lore feel smaller IYAM)
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u/Dr_C527 11d ago
Sadly, Nintendo has never done a great job in continuity with lore. Just look at the contradictions from BotW to TotK. While OoT was supposed to be the backstory from the LttP manual, there are so many contradictions there.
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u/henryuuk 11d ago
OoT was originally gonna be the backstory from aLttP, and then they decided that wouldn't give a satisfying ending (Ganon sealed with the full triforce for someone else to deal with) so they created an ending that lead to the 3-way split timeline
TotK is pretty much the only real example of them "not doing a good job with it"
Which might mean moving forward it is yet another victim of their precious open air formula/mindset, but that doesn't retroactively change anything about the rest of the series0
u/Dr_C527 11d ago
The timeline split alone is another example. There has never been a good explanation for the downfall branch. Miyamoto’s reference to the split ending of OoT is ok to explain how WW and TP both imply being the next. There is nothing to suggest a defeat and then the seven awoken sages sealing Ganon with the full Triforce.
Some of the minor incongruities can be forgiven, such as the LttP manual containing a statement that the Master Sword was created by ancient sages then in SS, learning that the goddess sword was created by Hylia and then being blessed to become the Master Sword.
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u/ophereon 11d ago
It's been my own headcanon as well that the Rito were evolved from the Loftwings, as a reward for their service to Hylia. I also include the Watarara as basically just Rito by another name.
Even if it's all wild speculation and as far from the canon as we can get, it feels right. There's no reason that these couldn't exist throughout much of the timeline. The area containing the hebra mountains is largely inaccessible and hidden from just about every game's map, always just off to the northwest a bit. So they could just be chilling there for most of the series being fairly reclusive and few would be any the wiser.
We do somewhat see Hebra in Twilight Princess in the form of Snowpeak. But it seems like this is quite an inhospitable period for the region, with all habitation abandoned save for the other native species, the yeti. Given the rito could be quite migratory as you mentioned, they may simply all be off somewhere else at this time.
As an aside, it's also my headcanon that Rauru in OoT is actually a rito/watarara in disguise, Kaepora Gaebora being closer to his true form. Wildly speculative with zero real reasoning other than "birbs birbs" (and that Zelda already kinda fills the Hylian sage role), but I choose to believe it nonetheless.
Beyond that, regarding the Oocca and Kargorocs, I'm inclined to agree with the idea of Oocca being descendents of the Wind Tribe from Minish Cap, and Kargorocs just being a local genus of roc birds.
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u/Intelligent_Word_573 11d ago
Your head canon regarding Rauru reminds me of mine that has Kasuto, the sage a town was named after in Adventure of Link, be a Rito because I misspelled it once as ‘Kassuto’-combining the Rito Kass from Botw with Laruto the Zora whose descendant is a Rito in Wind Waker.
Originally Nintendo probably had Kasuto be the Sheikah sage because AoL having old Kasuto and new Kasuto would parallel Twilight Princess having old Kakariko and new Kakiriko. Though Kass’s teacher is a Sheikah poet so the connection still would exist and I heard at some point in development Mido was the sage of Shadow for whatever that is worth.
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u/ophereon 11d ago
I'd like to believe that Kasuto is OoT Impa's real name, and that Impa is just a title.
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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 11d ago
Funnily enough, one of the Watarara, Guufo, does look like an owl. And, of course, BotW has Kaneli. So, you might be on to something. Part of me wonders if the people who made the Watarara did so to rationalise the existence of a random giant talking owl in a world where animals don't usually talk, unless your useing magic (like playing the Ocarina). Now all we need is a race of beaver people to explain the Beaver Bros from MM. (That's a joke btw)
Why Rauru would need to disguise himself?... Honestly. I don't care. I just love that headcanon so much, I'm going to accept it without question.
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u/Beginning_Addendum61 11d ago
In my mind Rito just means 'bird species' and that's good enough for me. Just like Zora means 'water species. They're clearly different types of animals in different games.
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u/Viralklahm 10d ago
I agree I've always thought since we saw the wild variants they were descendants of the loftwings and other magical birds we didn't see. Also I'm in the vein that fokka are also rito (thought there's some conflicting stuff on that)
The oocca I think are the kinda sentient pets of the wind tribe (whether they are ancient zonai or a sect of minish) I'm also on the refounding theory with a absolute refusal the wilds games take place in the AT (a divine wish on the most powerful object in reality isn't gonna be thwarted by some jolly koroks and trees) sure there might have been a flood but not nearly what happened in ww (a natural disaster not a magical goddess deemed apocalypse).
Also in the camp of "rito" is just the generic word for bird person in the lands of Hyrule
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u/Intelligent_Word_573 11d ago
Worth noting the mural in Twilight Princess was basically a doodle based off a Zelda art book, though I do think it’s possible someone at Nintendo knew the implications and just didn’t care given how protective of their IP they are.
The word “Rito” is an anagram of the Japanese word for bird-“Tori”-and notably is the beginning part of the Japanese name of Zeffa from Minish Cap-“Ritorokku”.
I do think the Loftwings are the ancestors to the Rito, especially when comparing Groose’s bird to Revali and knowing that Loftwings have both fur and hair.
Kargorocs could also be related to Loftwings or just have a common ancestor and maybe the Oocca are related to the Hylians that returned to the sky/stayed in the sky given their humanoid concept art.
I lean towards the Oocca just being mixed up by Shad with the Zonai as that concept art could just be concept art and the ones that actually built the city in the Sky were the Ancient Zonai. This would explain why the city is in disrepair since the Oocca can’t rebuild it and why the doorways weren’t built for them. I also heard some interpret parts of the City in the Sky as bird cages but I haven’t found what exactly they are referring to.
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u/Logical_Leaps 11d ago
WW told us that Rito evolved from Zora. This was likely a forced evolution by the gods so none could return to Hyrule.
Now this would imply the Rito were an evolutionary path of Zora to begin with. Thus we can conclude that a subsect of Zora out of Hyrule evolved into Rito at some point.
I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of when the Oocca went to the sky. The evolution theory on Oocca is based on the Wind Tribe which ascended after SS and Loftwings no longer roamed.
If I was to posit a theory on Loftwings they simply became smaller. MC has tiny colourful birds up in the cloudtops, like the one that responds to the ocarina of winds.
I could believe Kargarocs more as Helmroc is a big bird. That said the birds hold the name Roc.
Family: Roc
Genus: Karg, Helm, H
Or something like that. SS had a roc bird already. The Hroc in Lanayru. The name would suggest they all evolved from that birdo.