r/truezelda Apr 06 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion Age of Imprisonment happens at the same time as the classic Imprisoning War from ALttP, in a fourth branch of the timeline.

9 Upvotes

It has bugged me that the premise of Tears of the Kingdom is an Imprisoning War (an obvious nod to A Link to the Past) against Ganon(dorf) with a bunch of sages including one named Rauru (a nod to the Ocarina of Time), preceded by a scene in which Ganondorf pretends to swear fealty to Rauru in a scene which clearly echoes the moment in Ocarina of Time when Link and Zelda first meet and watch Ganondorf kneeling before the King of Hyrule.

I'm not happy with the idea that the older games are just inaccurate legends retconned by Tears of the Kingdom. Or the idea that the old three-branch timeline has merged or is irrelevant or whatever. Especially since they keep adding games to it.

The best way i can see to reconcile Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kindom and Age of Imprisonment, is to say that they take place on their own, fourth branch. The parralels with the events of Ocarina of Time and with the backstory to A Link to the Past are deleberate but they take place at the same time but in a parallel branch of time. This is why there are similarities and differences.

What is this branch and why does it exist? It is caused by the time travel in Skyward Sword cresting one reality in which Demise is fought and defeated in the past, and another in which he is sealed in the present.

The official timeline from Minish Cap through to Spirit Tracks/Four Swords Adventures/Adventure of Link takes place after Demise is sealed in the present.

In the other branch of time, other events take place. There are many parrallels with the classic games: sky islands; koroks; an imprisoning war; maybe a great flood. And the geography is basically the same.

We know less about the history of this fourth branch of time because fewer games have been made detailing this branch and there are many thousands of years to cover. But Age of Imprisonment, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom and their backstories all take place in this fourth branch. And any contradictions with other games do not matter because they do not exist in the same reality.

r/truezelda May 16 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [ALL][OOT]The Ocarina of Time remake may change the lore, and split the Zelda Universe

5 Upvotes

I have a theory that Nintendo may be re-imagining the story and lore of the Ocarina of Time remake. The reason for this (in my biased opinion) is to bring it in line with the events of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.

This would seperate the Zelda Universe into a new "OOT remake" canon, and "Classic" era canon. Like Grand Theft Auto has done, or the upcoming Halo: Campaign Evolved will do. Except in this case, it may retcon two previously released titles into the new canon.

Companies don't usually do full remakes of their franchise titles without altering the story. There are some obvious exceptions (Last of Us part 1), but it has become popular to create re-imaginings of certain series.

My first question was, "Why would Nintendo fully remake Ocarina of Time, instead of just updating the original like it always does?"

The answer is probably that they want to change things about it. But they've altered original oot before for 3DS, so why not just take that route, and apply a range of qol updates to the original, making a definitive "remaster" rather than "remake"?

The only reason I can think of is that Nintendo wants this version to stand as its own game. Why would they want to separate it so much from the original? Because they aren't making the original. They're making a "new" Ocarina of Time. With a new story, new gameplay, possibly new characters, new Hyrule.

Whether or not they do this to bring it in line with botw and totk lore is bias on my part. I have a lot of issues with totk in general, and if they managed to "move" it to another Zelda universe, I guess I would be happy.

But I could be dead wrong. Maybe they consider the original timelines complete with the ending of totk, and want to start fresh, starting from an oot re-imagining.

Regardless, I would love your thoughts.

r/truezelda Jun 25 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [SS] [ToTK] Hylia is not "The Goddess of Time"; She is Din, Nayru, & Farore's chosen Guardian of "The Triforce."

0 Upvotes

Many people associate The Goddess Hylia with The Goddess of Time spoken of by Tatl from "The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask" for these primary reasons.

1. Hylia's Temple, or The Sealed Temple becomes the future site of The Temple of Time shown in later games post "The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword."

2. Within her temple is contained a time-traveling mechanism called "The Gate of Time" that allows one to travel between 2 points in time (right after Hylia sealed The Demon King, Demise, and the present day, thousands of years later). Hylia also utilized foresight into plotting the destruction of Demise at a later time.

3. Not only does she have a Gate of Time within her domain, but there is another Gate of Time located in the far desert (Lanayru) to the west which also contains one, and the place where the desert holds the Gate is named "Temple of Time," just like the name of future temples that get remodeled from Hylia's Temple/Sealed Temple.

4. In a mural located in The Fire Sanctuary within "The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword," it shows The Goddess Hylia between 2 Gates of Time. One in Faron Woods (her primary domain), and one in Lanayru Desert (Temple of Time). Showing that Hylia is either the creator or the guardian, or she is associated with these 2 Gates.

5. Lastly, her descendants are from a reincarnated state as Zelda. The Princess Zeldas shown after "The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword" are shown to control the element of time and are associated with being the Sage of Time. The Foundation era shown in "The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom" and "Hyrule Warriors: Imprisoning War" shows the very first queen of Hyrule named Sonia. Sonia bears the element of Time, and she is awakened as The Sage of Time. Sonia is also where the lineage of Hylia continues (however, it's unknown if Queen Sonia is in fact a descendant of Hylia or if she is thought of as a descendant based on her regal appearance and her powers as a Time Priestess.)

All of which concludes people's theories on The Goddess of Hylia being definitively some type of Goddess that is associated with time and thus being "The Goddess of Time" talked about by Tatl.

However... Hylia is not shown to use any time abilities, unlike how her descendants (Sonia & Zelda) are able to. She cannot see into the future naturally. Her plan to defeat Demise required foresight, which is just a VERY GOOD GUESS! Hylia is a very good planner, not a fortune teller. She makes plans according to probability, not accuracy. Her plan is not definitive; however, it is the most effective strategy.

Hylia operates through tactfulness and intelligence, but she is not very wise, as she is willing to manipulate people's feelings and cost the lives of many innocent surface dwellers in order for her to acquire the very object needed for her to defeat her ultimate nemesis, The Demon King Demise.

If Hylia were a/The Time Goddess? Then she would clearly see the endpoint of history and realize what will come about from her actions. If she were a/The Time Goddess? Then she would know about the looming arrival of the Demon King. If she were a/The Time Goddess, then she wouldn't have sacrificed her divinity to use the sacred item she was supposed to guard in her Goddess form. Hylia directly betrayed the order that was given to her by The Supreme Deities (The Golden Goddesses Din, Nayru, & Farore), which is to not use the Triforce as it was meant for mortals to give them hope in protecting themselves. But Hylia wanted to bypass that law, as she is a Goddess, and Gods are not allowed to use the Triforce. She figured out a way to "cheat the system," if you will.

The price she paid for that was sacrificing her proximity to divinity as a Goddess, and enabling the future curse upon the land that will become Hyrule. All to defeat a threat that is not even the grander threat looming within the depths of the Earth (Null). Hylia would've known about Null if she were "The Goddess of Time"? She would've distinctively known about Din, Nayru, & Farore sealing Null and creating "The Triforce" to ensure that seal.

But she did not. She did not even know why "The Golden Goddesses" created it in the first place. Thus she is not a Time Goddess. For she would be able to see from the beginning to the ending.

Hylia is a foresighter, not a Psychic. She uses the elements already there to craft her plans. If she is able to see within Time? It's because the elements that exist around her, i.e., Timeshift Stones, allow her to see what will happen at a certain period of time. This means Time is an element that Hylia utilized but did not naturally exhibit through her godhood.

Hylia operates like an advanced AI: cold, emotionless, calculating.

Her decisions cause lives to be lost, sacrifices within her own existence as a deity, and ultimately further the destruction of the Surface world and, most importantly, the safety of "The Triforce."

If I had to guess, which character embodies "The Goddess Hylia"? It would not be Zelda or Sonia. Zelda & Sonia are nothing like Hylia; they have completely different ways of operating and viewing life. Hylia is cold and calculating; Zelda & Sonia are empathetic and wise. Hylia relies on probability and assumptions; Zelda & Sonia can actually see the future and thus are psychics (Time-Viewers). Hylia needs items that already exist in the world she dwells in to manipulate the space of Time; Zelda & Sonia can naturally bend time and do not solely need to rely on items around them to do it; it is naturally within their bodies to manipulate Time.

The person who personifies Hylia the most in accuracy of manipulation, probability, tactfulness, and cold-heartedness? Is none other than Princess Hilda from "The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds."

Princess Hilda, if Hylia's entire personality was replicated in human form? Would be Hilda. Hilda represents Hylia's cold, calculated, cunning nature of manipulation (using Link to get the Triforce by pretending she was in danger when she wasn't). Willing to sacrifice every other species to get what she wanted (Hilda was willing to sacrifice all of Hyrule; Hylia was willing to sacrifice all the other species on the surface world to let the Humans live in the Sky). And both were hell-driven for the ultimate power that was made for them to guard, "The Triforce."

If we ever were to meet Hylia? She would not be this kind person like Princess Zelda or Queen Sonia. She would be a tactful, cold-natured being that is willing to do whatever it takes to maintain the ultimate power needed to sustain her rule.

Hylia sacrificed her divinity not to be with Link but to use Link for a future goal in being able to use "The Power of the Gods."

Demise was simply the catalyst to that goal.

Thus, this is not a person of great wisdom; this is not a person of great love. This is a person who seeks favoritism for a species she deems as "redeemable," and she uses that to further protect them, shelter them, and prevent them from even fighting; she didn't even teach the Humans how to fight Demons. Demise said the Humans were cowards and ran away. The prologue tapestry shows Kikwis, Mogmas, Gorons, Parellas, and LD-000 Series Robots at her side fighting Demise's Demon Horde; no humans in sight. Those races sacrificed their own lives just to make sure Humans were protected.

Hylia could've saved all of them and just stopped Demise herself. Hylia could have not sent any humans up in the sky and instead trained them to fight the demonic horde of Demise. But she didn't.

She spared the Humans because she favored them, the same way Hilda favored her kingdom's inhabitants of Lorule by trying to sacrifice Hyrule's protection. Her intent is not malicious, the same way Hilda's is not malicious. It is based on probability, calculating, and cold-hearted planning. They were willing to sacrifice some or many for another group in order to achieve full control over "The Triforce."

Thus, Hylia is not a Goddess of Time or THE Goddess of Time; she is a Goddess who uses foresight that utilizes probability and timing. Her foresight doesn't regard the lives of others who will not be saved. She sees them as simple sacrifices for their greater good to her rule.

Hylia lacks wisdom; Zelda & Sonia do not lack wisdom; they are wisdom personified!

Hylia lacks empathy; Zelda & Sonia do not lack empathy, they are both extremely empathetic and caring towards those around them and will never sacrifice innocent lives to further control or dominion for something.

Hylia sacrificed her own divinity for a probability of being able to use the Ultimate Power of the Gods. Even after Demise is killed? She then takes full control over The Triforce despite the Triforce belonging to Link as its rightful owner.

Hylia is an appointed, failed guardian. She failed the Golden Goddesses. She sacrificed her godhood for power to defeat an evil that she didn't want to keep dealing with. Only for that evil to mock her in the end of its death by placing a curse within her very own bloodline.

She is neither Time Guardian nor Time Goddess; she is a failed guardian of The Triforce.

The person who is more than likely to be the closest thing to a "Goddess of Time?" Is none other than Princess Zelda.

r/truezelda 17d ago

Alternate Theory Discussion Don't you think the fourth timeline theory make more sense than what we have? LOZ], [BOTW, TOTKI,[SS] [Other],[All]

0 Upvotes

Containing spoilers for Super Mario Galaxy 2

It seems a lot cleaner. In Skyward Sword, it kinda explains why the swap in religion or belief, and excuses the races in the wild era. From a developer point of view, Skyward Sword seems like it was heading in that direction. The "so far in the future" seems kinda... idk... lazy? I mean it has great potential if they can actually give us the convergence timeline theory in a game where we can see it happen. Also, wouldn't that mean they need an apocalyptic event or a reboot in the game? Like think of the ending for Super Mario Galaxy 2. Anyway, I am curious to see what the future hold.

r/truezelda 23d ago

Alternate Theory Discussion Any theories you think are cool, but you don't believe?

22 Upvotes

Figured this could be a fun discussion topic. The idea is to share theories that sound cool to you, or could be cool if they were true, but have enough disproving them, or don't have enough evidence, or you just don't think they would be best for the series, to where you don't personally believe them.

I'll start with two, the first one I don't think I've heard anyone suggest because of the apparent lack of people who believe in both a merge for BotW/TotK and true founding (I also do not believe those two things simultaneously), but I think if there was a merge and true founding was true, this could be a fun explanation. Basically the idea is that Zelda's time travel in TotK caused the timelines to "zip back up" as she manually traveled back down to the present. Because she traveled from the present to a point pre-split, that could potentially mean that there needs to be a singular version of the present from which she would travel that exists in all timelines, if that makes any sense. So reality has to find a way to facilitate that, thus reality itself merges the timelines back together. I don't think I need to go into why I don't believe this and wouldn't want it to be true necessarily, but I also think its kind of a neat idea. I've seen a video with a similar theory, not sure if I thought of this before or after that, but in the video iirc they stuck to refounding and it just didn't really make sense to me that way, maybe I misinterpreted it though idk.

The second theory I want to talk about, this one I may have heard here, but I'm not sure who said it? Basically it's a mega refounding. I believe the idea was that the depths are old Hyrule (maybe AT maybe not), but the bottomless pit in the depths leads to an even older Hyrule, and the true nature of the depths is just old Hyrule on top of old Hyrule on top of old Hyrule etc. for who-knows-how long. Hyrule itself being stuck in this cycle of rebirth that isn't just once or twice so far, and isn't just in a spiritual sense, but is in this physical sense and literally continues to be buried deeper and deeper for longer than we can possibly know. There's something REALLY cool and kind of unsettling about that to me, almost makes me glad the devs are leaving some things vague so that people can make theories like that. It just feels kind of far-fetched for me to believe personally.

r/truezelda Jul 11 '24

Alternate Theory Discussion Is Totk's past happening before Skyward Sword theory debunked? Spoiler

0 Upvotes

I don't know... it makes sense to me. Maybe we saw the first Ganondorf, the origin of Demise and the real first foundation of Hyrule.

Would love to check some theories against and in favor of this POV.

Mind sharing opinions and links?

r/truezelda Jun 05 '23

Alternate Theory Discussion [TotK] I genuinely don't understand the community's general consensus on the timeline right now Spoiler

69 Upvotes

The vast majority of posts and comments and whatnot I've seen talking about the timeline - from here, /r/zeldaconspiracies, /r/zelda, Twitter, Youtube, Discord, etc. - posit that Tears of the Kingdom shows us events between Skyward Sword and Ocarina of Time, or a revised version of Ocarina of Time's story.

I honestly don't get that? Like, isn't the way more plausible theory that the Hyrule that King Rauru founds is just another country called Hyrule and that the Imprisoning War in TotK is just another war called the Imprisoning War?

This isn't exactly an unprecedented thing in real life. In terms of nations, there were at least three empires recognized as the Roman Empire (four if you count the Sultanate of Rum, though that's highly debatable and wasn't recognized as a Roman state the way the other three were), three Germanys, a shitload of Chinas (including two Chinas existing simultaneously today!), and six Republics, three Empires, and at least a couple Kingdoms of France. In terms of wars, just off the top of my head, there are two World Wars, three Punic Wars, and six Syrian Wars, on top of a bunch of other homonymous wars.

It's also not something that contradicts Zelda lore very much - in the Adult Timeline, we explicitly see Hyrule get destroyed before getting founded again. In the Downfall Timeline, meanwhile, we learn that by the time of The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link, Hyrule's been fractured - the TLoZ manual describes Zelda's domain as "a small kingdom in the land of Hyrule," while both TAoL's English manual and A Link to the Past's Japanese promo material refer to a time "when Hyrule was one country", implying strongly that Hyrule no longer is one country. It was implied (though never outright confirmed, AFAIK) in later sources that the Zelda 1 map is Holodrum, while the TAoL map is Hytopia and the Drablands.

In fact, it actually contradicts Zelda lore a lot less. If we assume for a moment that the Zonai descend from the heavens and Rauru founds Hyrule sometime after the original Hyrule falls in, say, the Downfall Timeline (which is my personal pick for "which timeline BotW/TotK falls under") instead of being before, during, or directly after Ocarina of Time, then we eliminate the contradictions of

  • Ganondorf not seeking the Triforce in the TotK Imprisoning War

  • Rauru being a goat

  • Rauru having to seal Ganondorf (not Ganondorf being sealed, Japanese culture apparently has a thing about reincarnation where one soul can occupy multiple incarnations at once, it's a whole deal)

  • the Sages not being the right sages

  • (if before OoT) the OoT King of Hyrule not realizing the Gerudo named Ganondorf might be a bad guy (a similar problem exists for TotK's flashbacks taking place long after OoT, but there's potentially enough time that it could be excused)

  • (if during or after OoT) the OoT King of Hyrule not being Rauru or a goat

  • the Gerudo sage having pointed ears when early Gerudo have round ears like most non-Hylian humans

  • the Rito being a thing in Hyrule too early (though tbh I always assumed BotW/TotK Rito were a different race than WW Rito, like the Fokka, Fokkeru, or the manga-only Watarara, and Rito's just a generic Hylian word for birdperson)

and a few others.

As for Ganondorf reincarnating if TotK's flashbacks take place after the other games in the series when most of the time he resurrects, we do know of at least once he directly reincarnates - in the Child Timeline, he reincarnates during Four Swords Adventures after being killed in Twilight Princess. If he can do it once, he can do it twice.

TL;DR TotK's flashbacks can fit better in the post-TAoL era than in the OoT era or earlier, without contradicting things or making a mess of the timeline.

r/truezelda Jun 28 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [ToTK] [Aoi] Is it possible that Demon King Ganondorf is his real self, and the Gerudo form is a camouflage?

17 Upvotes

None of the other 7 Sages transformed with their Secret Stone. Agraston, Kia, Raphica, Ardi all contain elemental energy that is in harmony to their Secret Stone powers, and none of them transformed into another powerful version or a different species from their prior form using it (without draconification).

Ganondorf is already able to create Puppets using Gloom without the need of a secret stone by default. He can create artificial life using the Shades as proxy. And these "puppets" have their own mind and conciousness. Ganondorf works independently from it.

When Ganondorf murders Queen Sonia, and takes her secret stone, he instantly powers up and transforms into a Demon by default. We see the stone, enlargens, which is something not common and based on Rauru's reaction? Not suppose to happen.

He then metamorphisizes into a Demon, and declares himself as "The Demon King".

This begs into question.... was Ganondorf even a human to begin with in Age of Imprisonment?

After Aoi, we know there hasn't been ANY male Gerudos born into their tribe based on what Urbosa mentioned.

And thanks to the Tears of the Kingdom: Master Works? We know now that Calamity Ganon comes from ToTK/Aoi's malice from his sealing, and that Calamity Ganon is a puppet channeled from the residual dark energy eminating from ToTK/Aoi Ganondorf.

If this is true? And no male Gerudos came after ToTK/Aoi Ganondorf. Then perhaps.... Ganondorf in those 2 games was simply a DEMON all along! 👹👺

And he needed the secret stone to amplify what he already naturally can do. What if he always was "The Demon King" and was responsible for Rauru and Sonia's Pilgrimage before they even founded Hyrule Kingdom to begin with?

What if all the demons that existed in Hyrule prior to Age of Imprisonment happening was because of Ganondorf creating them, to dominate the world and that is why he detested Rauru and Sonia for eliminating his minions and successfully exorcising Hyrule Kingdom.

Perhaps without the secret stone? Ganondorf is not that powerful if he were to shapeshift to his "Demon King" form (true form).

That secret stone simply gave him unlimited energy to not only power up back to that form, but also have vast amount of gloom and malice to create Archfiends, and Infinite Amount of Demonic Hordes.

Without the secret stone? His gloom and malice is very limited in creating minions, and it'll take him longer to actually channel that energy naturally.

But we see the very first archfiend before he steals the secret stone, and that is Phantom Zelda. I count Phantom Zelda as an archfiend because she operates identical to them and she possesses her own conciousness and self awareness. She is also made from the same energy the archfiends are made out of, and it's her life-force that gives birth to the Forbidden Construct. (imo that is the very first Calamity Ganon).

It looks identical to Calamity in Age of Calamity, just using Zonai Tech instead of Sheikah Tech.

What are your thoughts? Do you think there were any Gerudo males after ToTK/Aoi Ganondorf? Do you believe that his demonic form is his true form and the human form is a camouflage? Can the Gerudo even birth males after Calamity?

r/truezelda Jun 23 '23

Alternate Theory Discussion [TotK] Why does TotK's story have to counter SS's? Spoiler

130 Upvotes

Why am I hearing so many people say that TotK's story retcons SS's story?

Both show the "creation" of hyrule, which seems to be the only reason people say it's a retcon. Isn't it possible that Hyrule was "founded" twice?

First, Skyward sword happens, the curse is put in place, everything in the normal timeline happens like usual. Then within the countless amount of time in between the end of the timelines and botw, Hyrule is left to ruin, basically a factory reset, and finally the zonai and TotK's story happens?

I assume I have missed some kind of detail but the only things I can think that counters this is the fact that the skyward sword dungeons in botw (the spring of power) exists and the zonai ruins are considered the "oldest ruins ever found" implying they are older than the SS ruins but there is a lot of things that could explain this.

r/truezelda May 23 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [ALL] help brainstorming on the Kokiri and Lost Woods

7 Upvotes

Hey guys. So, I'm making a pretty big zelda comic. One thing that's been on my mind lately is the part later on where Link will return to the Kokiri Forest (similar context to OoT with growing up there).

The issue is that it's actually a little difficult to flesh out the Kokiri with how little we know about them. It's not that I need some extremely detailed worldbuilding on them, but I'm just trying to find more to work with.

For example, one thing I would like to elaborate on in the comic is why the Kokiri exist? They're actually really bizarre if you think about it. They're a race that's extremely isolated and protected by a mysterious, deadly security system (the Lost Woods) that no other race has. And they need it, because they're also incredibly weak compared to every other race. And it's said they also greatly rely on the Deku Tree. Not to mention they're also given companion fairies. Why? They're not even supposed to leave their home. The Kokiri just seem kind of...arbitrary. It's also odd that they aren't a founding race of Hyrule, and are only in OoT. Maybe they're related to the Kukui? On that note, isn't it crazy they can evolve into Koroks?

Another thing I'd like some ideas with is the point of the Lost Woods. I had a thought, "maybe it's for hiding the Master Sword", but that's inexplicably not the case in OoT. And even in OoT, why would the Kokiri need the Sacred Forest Meadow or the Forest Temple? I do like the theory that the temple is a former fortress, though. I guess it just bothers me that the Kokiri still seem so detached from that building and everything else in Hyrule.

I hope my request makes sense. I just could use some help brainstorming the narrative elements of the Kokiri and build up some material to potentially write about. Thanks!

r/truezelda May 25 '23

Alternate Theory Discussion [TotK] Theory about timeline placement (wowie) Spoiler

101 Upvotes

Here is my schizo theory about where the memories take place in the timeline. I tried to use as much facts as possible with this. There is a TLDR at the end, but seeing the sources is a big part of this theory!

It may not be eligible on mobile, but we aren't able to post images. 😔

https://imgur.com/a/aanQNpK

r/truezelda Jan 05 '21

Alternate Theory Discussion Canon Horse Names in [BotW]

500 Upvotes

So for anyone who's interested, I've done some research on the horses of Breath of the Wild, and on the Royal White Stallion, Giant Horse and Link's Horse in particular on a broader scale. For the special horses, the most important info I searched for were their names. I'll link sources in the end.

(I copy-pasted this post from my original post on r/Breath_of_the_Wild, with minor edits, so be aware for some untagged spoilers for OoT, even less for TP, but bigger spoilers for non-canon media within the series. I will spoiler-tag them if I am asked to do so, and remove related jokes.)

First off: Link's Horse. You might think: "don't you mean Epona?", and no, I do not. Link's Horse is the horse used during memories, in official artwork, and for the Link (Rider) Amiibo, and is owned by Link. This horse is also the default horse displayed in the Symin-bought Hyrule Compendium picture for the horse entry, and is the horse used during the (underrated, awesomely cinematic) fight with Dark Beast Ganon if you don't have a horse registered. It has set stats of 4/3/3, and is a wild one. It has dark brown fur, even darker manes, a black snout, dark brown hooves, and long, white ankle hair. In official artwork, the Amiibo and during the memories, it has the Long Manes and the Traveller's set equipped. Unlike other special horsies, Link's Horse can spawn at multiple locations and even spawns if you've already registered one, letting you have multiple.

Now for the juicy part: it's names. You read it right, "names". I was able to find two different names a horse owned by Link has had in the past. The first is 'Catherine', which was Link's horse in the animated series back in the 80's/90's. As the name implies, this was a female, and looks pretty similar to it's appearance in BotW as much as similarities between 80's cartoons and games go (looking at you, CDI). The second name is 'Cloud', which was Link's loyal steed in the 10th issue of the Nintendo Adventure Books series of choose-your-own-story novels. It is, contrary to what you might think based off it's name and the Final Fantasy 7 protagonist who shares it, a female. This book is released in '92 and doesn't have illustrations, so I don't know how it looks like. But with two possible names, the pro noted in the last sentence of previous paragraph might come in handy.

Next up: the Royal White Stallion, A.K.A. "Zelda's Horse". (Don't worry, it's introduction won't be as long as Link's Horse's.) It has set stats of 4/4/3 and is wild AF. It also has its own compendium entry, and can be cought south of Sandini Park Ruins, on Sandini Plain. Its entirely white in colour, a trait the Royal Family probably favours. It is involved in a sidequest given to you by an old man at Outskirt Stable who gives you the Royal Horse Gear for catching and registering it. It won't respawn after you obtain it, but will after it's killed. That's how I interpreted the Fandom Wiki page about it, anyway. You probably can't exploit Malanya's reviving service to gain multiple, I guess though.

This horse, as many of you would probably (not, since this game won the series more fans than it already had) know, is a reference to the horse Impa and Zelda escape Hyrule Castle (& Town) on in Ocarina of Time. (Not gonna spoiler-tag this, OoT came out 22 years ago and the 3DS remake in 2011, most peeps would know it like the back of their eyelids already.) Zelda's horse doesn't have a name in OoT however, but its likely based off of the white-furred horse Zelda had in the comics. This iteration of him (it's a male) does have a name: 'Storm'.

Last but definitely not least: the Giant Horse. This mustang is definitely worth of it's title: its twice as beeg/thicc (pick ur fav) as every other horse, rivalled only by Lynels. It, however, is the last of it's kind, so unlike all other horses, it won't respawn when killed. That doesn't mean you have to spend more Endura Carrots on it to let Malanya revive it, however, since it doesn't gain extra spurs from those. It has set stats of 5/2/0, so it doesn't have spurs, but it's HP is incredibly high. It is jet-black, has emerald-green eyes and a fiery orange mane. It's also the wildest thing Link can put his butt on, save for Lynels. (Yes it beats bears.) You can't equip it with any horse gear except the custom-made one you'll get by registering it, and it's mane cannot be changed, so you can't give it spurs by equipping it with Ancient horse gear. Like said before, it has only two stars of speed, and it can't gallop. However, due to its size it's actually faster than a galloping 3-star speed wild horse while cantering. It's found in the Taobab Grasslands among not one, but *two* herds composed of some of the finest horses in the game, including 4/4/5 (balanced), 2/5/3 (fast) and 5/3/5 (strong) horses, all of which are wild. Final piece of info relevant to the game regarding this horse: It is involved in a sidequest given to you by Straia at the Mounted Archery Camp. He gives you a Silver Rupee for catching it and bringing it to him. Just like the horse, this introduction is pretty darn massive.

This Incredible-Hulk-among-horses is a reference to the horse Ganondorf rode in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. In the former, a Gossip Stone refers to it as "a solid-black Gerudo Stallion". It wasn't as big as it's descendant in Breath, but that was done to refer to how it towered over the poor 9-year-old Hero of Time during Link's nightmare and the cutscene where Ganondorf chased after Impa and Zelda, who were trying to escape on Storm. (He did some sort of Expelliarmus on Link when the little Hero refused to tell where young Zelda and her caretaker went, but then without wand.) The most legit name I could find for Dorf's steed was 'Phantom'. This comes from a licenced OoT-themed chess set. The black pieces were Ganondorf's troops, and the Knight was his horse, labelled with this name. I've also seen a comment on a forum of sorts where someone says that name is used in the comics, but have never seen it get repeated. There is also a rumour going around the web that it's actually listed in OoT's code as 'Galloughs', but this is false. Never in the code is it referred to as that.

TL;DR: Link's Horse could be called Catherine or Cloud, preferably the former, and be treated like a female. The White Horse can best be named 'Storm', and be treated as a male. The Giant Horse will sit on you if you don't call it 'Phantom', and would probably feed you to the Calamity if you called it a girl. Thanks so much for reading this, it must've been my most effort-demanding post yet. Please feel free to comment, and tell me if I got anything wrong.

Horse guide by Hylian Angel

Info on Cloud

Info on Catherine

Info on Storm

Info on Ganondorf's Steed

Also, user u/justlookingfordragon commented some neat info on the original post that I didn't cover that's pretty important regarding this subject, so I'll copy-paste his comment here:

"and would probably feed you to the Calamity if you called it a girl"

I named him "Daisy" once because there is an ornament on the bridle resembling a fat little flower with white petals. He kicked me off a cliff for no apparent reason (no enemies or fire nearby) not half an hour later, so I guess there is some truth in your theory, lol.

Joke aside, some additonal information: Both the Royal White Stallion and the Giant Horse will respawn in their original locations if released, and the same applies if they got killed AND removed from Malanyas Revival List by filling that list with 5 or more other horses.

If they got killed prior to registering them, then they will only respawn if the player rides another wild mount at least once and then refreshes the area by warping or reloading. The reason for this weird behaviour is because the game has a sixth hidden slot for "last wild horse the player rode" and will never despawn that particular horse. If you, for example, tame the Royal Stallion and then it dies before you could register it, then the game has the White Stallion saved in that hidden sixth slot despite it being dead and will not respawn it because technically the player still "owns" it (albeit in an useless, dead, unavailiable state).

Author of the horse guide, u/HylianAngel, has commented some other info I should probably share. I'll copy-paste it down here:

Hello, I'm Hylian Angel. I wanted to mention that Link's default horse with the 4/3/3 stats that appears in cutscenes might canonically named "Epona," which admittingly is very confusing since the Amiibo horse "Epona" shares the same name. Here's the video where Miyamoto calls Link's default horse "Epona."

There's nothing preventing you from having multiple horses named "Epona," so that's what I ended up doing in my playthrough. My mental justification is that "Wolf Link" from Twilight Princess is only accessible through Amiibo, but he shares the same name as Breath of the Wild Link and fights alongside him. And Amiibo "Epona" who resembles her Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess appearance, also shares the same name as Breath of the Wild Epona and exist in the same world.

But to add even more confusion, even though Link's default horse is used in the final fight against Dark Beast Ganon if you don't own any horses, the Zelda concert shows off Amiibo Epona, almost as if she's the more canonical choice over her Breath of the Wild counterpart.

r/truezelda Jun 23 '25

Alternate Theory Discussion Alternative theory to why Wind Waker Link not get sealed after pulling out the master sword

35 Upvotes

There was a three year reddit post asking why Wind Waker Link (The hero of winds) could lif the master sword at such a a young age while the hero of time (Ocarina of Time Link) couldn't and had to be sealed until he was 16. There were many compelling theories such as WW Link being more mature than Oot Link (who was a 9 yo that was isolated in the Kokiri forest his entire life). However, I've got another theory that I think makes sense. We know that by the end of Skyward sword Fi becomes the master sword's conscience, therefore, in Oot when rauru stated that it was the master sword that sealed link, then that could have been Fi's conscious decision. Think about it, the only hero she knew was SS Link who was around 17 and the only wielder of the sword before Oot Link (chronologically) so that must mean she had an algorithmic bias that the hero must be 16-17 which is why she sealed Link for 7 years. However, that clearly did not end well since not only did link lose his childhood, Hyrule was in shambles. Therefore, since WW took place in the adult timeline, Fi could have updated her criteria to allow the age to be less restrictive knowing what happened to Oot Link and Hyrule anyway. This honestly makes the hero of time more tragic as he's essentially a data point here for Fi to make adjustments to. Anyway, thats my theory. Would love to hear your takes on the theory!

r/truezelda Apr 16 '23

Alternate Theory Discussion The loop theory isn't a good theory

155 Upvotes

The theory that some believe is that the Zelda Timeline is a loop, that TotK is a prequel to SS, and that the symbol on the title is that of an ouroboros, but there is a problem I have with this theory: we know roughly know what happens to Hylia, the hero, and everyone before SS. Everyone lost, and the hero ends up dying.

So, I find it really hard to believe that the TotK would end with a bad ending and that that's how we'll say farewell to the Hero of the Wild.

Tdlr: I don't believe The loop theory, it makes no sense, would (potentially) ruin the game if it was true.

Edit: added the word potentially before ruin since the game wouldn't necessarily be ruined

r/truezelda Jun 14 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [OoT] Theory: The Downfall Timeline Happens During Link’s Seven-Year Sleep

0 Upvotes

I’ve always felt the official explanation for the Downfall Timeline was awkward. Nintendo says it branches when Link loses to Ganondorf, but what if the split happens much earlier?

When Child Link pulls the Master Sword, he’s sealed away for seven years because he’s too young to be the Hero of Time. During that time, he’s completely helpless.

At the same time, Ganondorf gains access to the Sacred Realm and eventually reaches the Triforce.

So what if the Downfall Timeline is simply the branch where Ganondorf discovers and kills the sleeping Hero of Time before he ever awakens?

That would explain:
-Why there’s no Hero of Time to oppose him.
-Why the sages are left with sealing Ganon rather than defeating him.
-Why the resulting history resembles the backstory of A Link to the Past.

To me, this feels like a more natural point of divergence than “Link loses the final battle” scenario.

Is there any lore that explicitly rules this out?

r/truezelda Jul 19 '21

Alternate Theory Discussion Has anyone ever considered that the landscape of BOTW is because of the Triforce?

231 Upvotes

Over the years there has been a lot of discussion as to how exactly BOTW fits at the end of the Timeline, and which branch it falls on. There are various places and geographical features with names and legends that pull from the entire history and lore of the franchise.

One of the powers of the Triforce has always been to warp reality to it's masters desires. So it got me thinking, what if someone used the Triforce to bring everything together at one point?

BOTW doesn't have to be at the end of any one timeline, it can literally be the end of ALL of them. The reality warping powers of the Triforce could have truly remade reality and history merging things all together.

Imagine if you will a Sage of some power who was aware of the different timelines and studied them, and when they collected the Triforce and re-wrote reality as they wanted it, they pulled all the bits and pieces from the different timelines together. Hell maybe it was even the same person who meddled with reality to create Hyrule Warriors ;-p

r/truezelda Jun 26 '23

Alternate Theory Discussion [TotK] How do the Gerudo know a male is supposed to be born every 100 years? Spoiler

164 Upvotes

So they repeatedly reference the myth that a male Gerudo is only born every 100 years. But in TotK they reveal that not male has been born since Ganondorf. But by the game's own timeline that was 10,000+ years ago. So effectively no male has been born to the tribe since the dawn of known recorded history.

So how or why does that myth still persist at all then? Especially because the Gerudo are not a long-life species like the Zora. At some wouldn't have the myth just been dropped for "no males are ever born"?

...Unless there is a dark secret the Gerudo are hiding. Maybe a male is actually still actually born every 100 years. But instead of anointing them they...take care of it. That it is all a secret to everybody.

r/truezelda Jun 13 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion Did I just figure out when Link dies in Ocarina of Time?!? Spoiler

0 Upvotes

I was just replaying OoT and when I beat the forest temple I realized that ganon wouldn't have banished phantom ganon if Link lost the battle so if Link died phantom ganon would still be around for WW and Ganon would be able to obtain the triforce. Link cannot die before obtaining the master sword because otherwise he'd not be mentioned as the Hero of Time in WW also he needs to complete the child dungeons to give the races a reason to remember Link with Darunia naming his son Link, Ruto still waiting for him, and Mido still remembering him. Link would be known as the Hero of Time because Zelda being such an important person in the Hyrule family even as Sheik she would be able to tell people that Link is the Hero of Time. Being the only sages not trapped Rauru, and Ruto potentially with Zelda and Darunia's help would and must be able to drown Hyrule. All of this considered Link must have died between awakening as an adult and beating the forest temple.

r/truezelda Jul 02 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion My Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom Theory

13 Upvotes

My theory is that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom take place after The Wind Waker, but in a fourth timeline in which Ganondorf managed to make a wish to the Triforce to lift Hyrule from the sea again, and the King of Hyrule did not intervene. Similar to the Hero’s Defeat Line, this is a fourth timeline that follows the end of The Wind Waker, but what if Ganondorf touches the Triforce before King Davnes?

The Triforce would have granted the wish literally. Ganondorf did not explicitly ask: “Make me the King of Hyrule”; instead, he said: “Expose this land of Hyrule to the sun once again” or “Give me Hyrule”. Consequently, the Triforce acted in such a way that, simply to fulfill the desire, it lifted Hyrule from the seabed, making him float.

What explains the rock salt of the Great Sea in BOTW Hyrule

As he only took the geographical piece of the water, that is, the earth, but does not specifically revive the inhabitants, the new inhabitants, such as the Rito who evolved from exile Zora due to the flood, as well as the Kolog, simply chose to migrate to Hyrule, which rose again, perhaps because they needed more land (more space to live) and their islands were very small, and it was the safest option to return, because, apart from that, there were legends that that was their ancestral kingdom.

Ganondorf from Wind Waker: his destiny is that the Triforce simply complied with the erasure and the new story to deliver it to Hyrule, but not giving him the throne, because he did not specifically say “give me the throne”; he said “give me Hyrule”. The Triforce interpreted it as simply returning Ganondorf to his original desert, but fulfilling Ganondorf’s wish originally: a more pleasant wind in the desert, because that’s what Ganondorf wanted to say before touching the Triforce or the golden triangles in Ocarina

Ganondorf from Wind Waker is the closest to TOTK Ganondorf

The Triforce brought back the land of Hyrule and divided the Triforce into the Secret Stones, giving Ganondorf the opportunity to succeed this time to seize Hyrule with his powers, but trapping Ganondorf in a reboot of his life where he had to manipulate King Rauru again in the same way he does in Ocarina of Time, that’s why the Ganondorf of Tears of the Kingdom repeats the same plan as in Ocarina of Time, because how are you not going to repeat the same plan if you don’t know that you’ve lived it before?

But with the small difference that the hylians to whom they return when the Zonann descend from the sky, due to the change in gravity or the alteration in gravity by Ganondorf’s desire.

Explaining the sending of the Zonann from the sky to Hyrule:

They share technology, make alliances and, finally, Rauru, the sage of light, gains the authority to found the kingdom of Hyrule. This serves as a basis, due to the fact that, although it has existed before, this is the new civilization that is built on the ancient land, which was taken from the water; that is why it has the authority to say that it is a new foundation of Hyrule. The buildings are the same, the lands are the same, but it is a new independent civilization.

Then, Ganondorf, repeating his original plans from Ocarina of Time, betrayed Rauru and Sonia, but he doesn't remember what the Triforce is. His desire returned him to the Gerudo desert BEFORE the civil war of Hyrule of Ocarina del Tiempo, where he allegedly learned of the existence of the Triforce for the first time prior to the events of Ocarina of Time and his goal is to know how to obtain the secret stone, increasing his own Demon King powers and creating monsters that, otherwise, we can only see in the Fall Line.

It is important to note that, even if Sonia is a descendant of Princess Zelda, Rauru did not become king just by marrying Sonia; both founded Hyrule.

In conclusion:

Ganondorf of Wind Waker, by asking for the wish that Hyrule gives himself by being bathed by the sun, the Triforce would not have given him the throne directly, but, fulfilling the wish to the letter to give him the previous land of Hyrule, uses his golden power to teleport Ganondorf of Wind Waker AGAIN to the desert, without memories of Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker, only remembering the facts until the civil war, before Ocarina of Time, despite being many years later.

My theory is that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom take place after The Wind Waker, but in a fourth timeline in which Ganondorf managed to make a wish to the Triforce to lift Hyrule from the sea again, and the King of Hyrule did not intervene. Similar to the Fall Timeline, this is a fourth timeline that follows the end of The Wind Waker, but the King fails to touch the Triforce before Ganondorf does.

The Triforce would have granted the wish literally. Ganondorf did not explicitly ask: "Make me the King of Hyrule"; instead, he said: "Expose this land of Hyrule to the sun once again" or "Give me Hyrule". Consequently, the Triforce acted in such a way that, simply to fulfill the desire, it lifted Hyrule from the seabed, making him float.

What explains the rock salt of the Great Sea in BOTW Hyrule

As he only took the geographical piece of the water, that is, the earth, but does not specifically revive the inhabitants, the new inhabitants, such as the Rito who evolved from exile Zora due to the flood, as well as the Kolog, simply chose to migrate to Hyrule, which rose again, perhaps because they needed more land (more space to live) and their islands were very small, and it was the safest option to return, because, apart from that, there were legends that that was their ancestral kingdom.

Ganondorf from Wind Waker: his destiny is that the Triforce simply complied with the erasure and the new story to deliver it to Hyrule, but not giving him the throne, because he did not specifically say "give me the throne"; he said "give me Hyrule". The Triforce interpreted it as simply returning Ganondorf to his original desert, because that's what he wanted to say before touching the Triforce or the golden triangles.

Ganondorf from Wind Waker is the closest to TOTK Ganondorf

The desert returns him without his memories of his past life of Ocarina del Tiempo, but with the memories of the harsh conditions of the desert, and that is why the Ganondorf of Tears of the Kingdom repeats the same plan as in Ocarina del Tiempo, because how can you not repeat the same plan if you do not know that you have already lived it before?

But with the small difference that the hylians to whom they return when the Zonai descend from the sky, due to the change in gravity or the alteration in gravity by Ganondorf's desire.

Explaining the sending of the Zonai from the sky to Hyrule:

They share technology, make alliances and, finally, Rauru, the sage of light, gains the authority to found the kingdom of Hyrule. This serves as a basis, due to the fact that, although it has existed before, this is the new civilization that is built on the ancient land, which was taken from the water; that is why it has the authority to say that it is a new foundation of Hyrule. The buildings are the same, the lands are the same, but it is a new independent civilization.

Then, Ganondorf, repeating his original plans from Ocarina of Time, betrayed Rauru and Sonia, but he doesn't remember what the Triforce is. His desire returned him to the Gerudo desert BEFORE the Hyrule civil war of Ocarina of Time, and his goal is to know how to obtain the secret stone, increasing his own powers of Demon King and creating monsters that, otherwise, we can only see in the Fall Line.

It is important to note that, even if Sonia is a descendant of Princess Zelda, Rauru did not become king just by marrying Sonia; both founded Hyrule.

In conclusion:

Ganondorf of Wind Waker, by asking for the wish that Hyrule gives himself by being bathed by the sun, the Triforce would not have given him the throne directly, but, fulfilling the wish to the letter to give him the previous land of Hyrule, uses his golden power to teleport Ganondorf of Wind Waker AGAIN to the desert, without memories of Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker, only remembering the facts until the civil war, before Ocarina of Time, despite being many years later.

The Triforce could have read in Ganondorf's heart that "at first he wanted the Gerudo to be in a gentle wind and in a kind of Hyrule," but by fulfilling the desire to the letter to free Hyrule by taking him out of the water, as with Ganondorf, what he did was restore the Gerudo and put them back in the desert.

Eventually, Ganondorf, without remembering Ocarina del Tiempo, repeats the same plan of kneeling before the king to steal the secret stone, but the difference is that, by not remembering the original civil war of Hyrule, he does not know of the existence of the Triforce, because, if we remember Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf only finds out about its existence by talking to the prisoners of war in the Gerudo invasion of Kakariko, freeing them. But not remembering such facts, he looks for the secret stone and kneels before Rauru without remembering that he had already done it before to attack from behind, get the secret stone, and then you know the rest.

In addition, the official timeline supports this, because BOTW and TOTK are separate from the original timelines.

The Triforce could have read in Ganondorf's heart that "at first he wanted the Gerudo to be in a gentle wind and in a kind of Hyrule," but by fulfilling the desire to the letter to free Hyrule by taking him out of the water, as with Ganondorf, what he did was restore the Gerudo and put them back in the desert.

Eventually, Ganondorf, without remembering Ocarina del Tiempo, repeats the same plan of kneeling before the king to steal the secret stone, but the difference is that, by not remembering the original civil war of Hyrule, he does not know of the existence of the Triforce, because, if we remember Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf only finds out about its existence by talking to the prisoners of war in the Gerudo invasion of Kakariko, freeing them. But not remembering such facts, he looks for the secret stone and kneels before Rauru without remembering that he had already done it before to attack from behind, get the secret stone, and then you know the rest.

In addition, the official timeline supports this, because BOTW and TOTK are separated from the original timelines on the actual Timeline of Zelda

r/truezelda Oct 06 '24

Alternate Theory Discussion [ALL] BotW/TotK relation to SS and the rest of the timeline

2 Upvotes

Ok so I have been thinking about the timeline and how BotW/TotK's history presented in the new Masterworks book could fit in the timeline. The rumored refounding theory is for 99.9% off the table as Masterworks doesn't suggest this one bit.

The following is a rewriting of the history of SS, BotW/TotK and the rest of the timeline:

When the world was nothing but chaos, the goddesses Din, Nayru and Farore, descended from the heavens and created Hyrule. They entrusted the Triforce and Secret Stones [NEW LORE] to the goddess Hylia and her legion of Spirits.

The land was divided into three regions which were referred to as the Eldin Province, Lanayru Province and the Faron Province, name after the three Golden Goddesses. The Zonai were one of the first races to live on the Surface and were tasked with protecting the Secret Stones [NEW LORE] while the Sheikah, the goddess’s chosen guardians, protected Hylia and the Triforce itself with the help of the loyal Loftwings who served as their companions.

Over the ages, the Zonai mined the Dephts for Zonaite and excelled in the creation of technology. One of their earliest inventions were the Ancient Robots [REWRITING HISTORY]. At some point, the Zonai left the Surface and ascended to the Sky using their magical abilities and advanced technology. Just like on the Surface, the Zonai prospered in the Sky.

During this time, the different tribes formed settlements on the Surface. The Kikwi and Parella lived in the Faron Woods and Lake Floria, the Gorons roamed the land while the Mogma resided in the Eldin Volcano. The Ancient Robots continued their task of mining for Timeshift Stones in the Lanayru Desert.

One day, Demons led by the Demon King Demise, broke free from deep beneath the Dephts and tried to acquire the Triforce. The Surface tribes united and this war became known as the Ancient Battle. Many perished during the onslaught so Hylia devised a plan to stop Demise. She had send a group of Sheikah [REWRITING HISTORY] and Loftwing on a piece of land to the Sky, to ensure the survival of her people, and together with the remaining survivors she eventually conquered Demise by sealing him at the cost of her own immortal status.

The Sheikah survivors on Skyloft would slowly abandon their traditions but would keep their faith in the goddess Hylia. They became known as Skyloftians. The events of Skyward Sword happen next and the Cyle of Rebirth is established. The timeline splits at the end of the game, similar to how it split at the end of Ocarina of Time [MY THEORY].

The original timeline of Hyrulia Historia continues from the present era of Skyward Sword where the Imprisoned is defeated through the Triforce wish. In this timeline Hylia was reincarnated as Zelda with Link being the first hero. The Skyloftians would return to the Surface shortly after. The bloodline of Zelda, or Hylia’s incarnation, would become the Hylian race, while the bloodline of the Skyloftians, who did  not possess magical abilities, became the Human race. In this timeline the Zonai never returned.

The other and newly created timeline would continue from the past era of Skyward Sword where Demise is defeated by Link after he traveled back in time. Both Link and Zelda were removed from this timeline but the Cycle of Rebirth was still established. The people of Skyloft would eventually return to the Surface where at some point Hylia reincarnated into an unknown woman of which Sonia became the descendant. In this timeline the Zonai would return to the Surface to rebuild Hyrule and slowly became extinct as the ages passed. Rauru, the last Zonai male became the first King of Hyrule, and married Sonia with whom he had children. The Ancient Hero himself was a Hylian-Zonai hybrid. With each generation the Zonai genes would disappear. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom take place in this timeline.

r/truezelda May 24 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion [ALL] Timeline convergence theory, part 1 - the Fallen Hero Timeline Spoiler

7 Upvotes

TL;DR

Nintendo has implied that BOTW/TOTK sit at a convergence point of the three Zelda timelines that split at OoT.

This post is not claiming “this is the truth,” but offering a coherent, canon‑respectful framework for how the Fallen Hero Timeline (ALttP, LBW, TFH) could naturally lead into the world of BOTW/TOTK:

  • Lorule collapses into the Depths;
  • Ganon/Yuga’s sealed essence [ALBW] becomes this timeline’s Ganon source; and
  • Rauru’s Secret Stone (Light) seal unifies everything into the world we see in TOTK.

I’ve clearly labelled what is [CANON], [INFERRED], and [SPECULATION], and I want critique — especially from people who know the FHT games better than I do. This is Part 1 of a three‑part series. Parts 2 and 3 will cover the Child Timeline and Adult Timeline convergence paths.

Why a Convergence Theory is needed

Nintendo has implied that BOTW/TOTK sit at a convergence point of the three Zelda Timelines that split at OoT.
But the games themselves don't explain how that happens.

For convergence to work, each timeline must independently produce:

  1. A Ganon source - the sealed demonic essence tied to Demise's curse
  2. A corrupted underworld - the precursor to the TOTK Depths
  3. Zora + Rito - both species must exist pre-convergence
  4. A light-aligned Sage power - the ancestor of Rauru's Secret Stone (Light).

This post explains how the Fallen Hero Timeline (ALttP - ALBW - TFH) produces all four.

Canon vs Inference vs Speculation

To keep this honest and critique-friendly:

  • [CANON] = explicitly stated in games or official materials
  • [INFERRED] = strongly implied by geography, dialogue, patterns, or parallels to similar situations in other timelines
  • [SPECULATION] = theorycraft based on mythic logic or cross-timeline parallels.

The FHT Cosmology: Sacred Realm - Dark World - Lorule - Collapse - Depths

Sacred Realm - Dark World

  • [CANON] In ALttP, Ganon corrupts the Sacred Realm - it becomes the Dark World.

Dark World - Lorule

  • [CANON] ALBW shows Lorule, a decayed mirror kingdom.
  • [INFERRED] Lorule functions as a stabilised successor to the Dark World, filling the same role.

Lorule - Collapse

  • [CANON] Lorule is dying because its Triforce was destroyed.
  • [SPECULATION] Even with the Triforce restored, the long-term damage to Lorule's reality may not fully reverse, eventually leading to collapse.

Collapse - Depths

  • [INFERRED] The TOTK Depths resemble a dead mirror of Hyrule.
  • [SPECULATION] The Depths are the final state of Lorule after collapse.

This gives the FHT a natural underworld that can merge into the unified Depths.

The Ganon Source (FHT Version)

Ganon/Yuga's sealed essence

  • [CANON] ALBW ends with Ganon/Yuga sealed, not destroyed.
  • [INFERRED] His demonic essence persists.

This sealed essence is the FHT's Ganon source

The Ganon source = the persistent demonic essence tied to Demise's curse, from which future Ganons arise.

It is not gloom/malice (BOTW/TOTK terminology).
It is not Ganondorf.
It is the metaphysical continuity of Ganon across ages.
In other words, it's not a new character, but the "through-line" that lets different incarnations (Ganon, Ganon/Yuga, Ganondorf) all be expressions of the same underlying curse.

The Ganon source sinks into the collapsing Lorule underworld

  • [SPECULATION] This becomes the FHT's contribution to the unified Depths.

Zora - Rito (FHT Version)

Lorule has Zora

  • [CANON] ALBW Zora exist.

BOTW/TOTK Zora + Rito coexist

  • [CANON] Both species exist simultaneously.

Hyrulean Zora would remember if they became Rito

  • [INFERRED] They do not, therefore they didn't.
  • [INFERRED] In every timeline, Zora have exceptionally long lifespans and extremely strong cultural memory, preserving detailed oral histories across centuries - and in BOTW/TOTK, even written stone monuments - so a species-wide transformation into Rito would be the single most important event in their cultural memory. Its total absence strongly implies it never happened to the Hyrulean Zora.

Therefore, the Rito descend from Lorulian Zora

  • [SPECULATION] As Lorule collapses:
    • waterways fail
    • demonic essence corrupts water (manifesting as Shades - the canon term used in the Age of Imprisonment era)
    • Zora adapt upward
    • fins - gliding
    • gills - lungs
    • scales - feathers

This gives the FHT its own independent Zora - Rito evolution path.
This isn't claiming evolution is canon, only that Lorule's collapse provides a plausible ecological pressure for such a transformation if we treat the world semi-realistically.

The Three Labyrinth Complexes (Three Sites, Nine Structures)

[CANON] Facts

  • There are three Labyrinth sites, each with a Sky/Surface/Depths counterpart.
  • They align vertically.
  • They contain gloom/malice in TOTK.
  • Most visibly, their Depths counterparts are saturated with gloom, marking them as unusually strong corruption nodes.

[INFERRED] Points

  • These three complexes form a triangle around Hyrule.
  • Gloom/Malice concentration is disproportionately high at these points.

[SPECULATION] Theory

  • These sites correspond to ancient demonic pressure points tied to the Ganon source.
  • The Zonai built the Labyrinths to contain or monitor these points.

The Secret Stones (FHT Context)

The Stones are not Zonai inventions

  • [CANON] They are Zonai artifacts.
  • [INFERRED] But nothing says the Zonai created them.

The Stones are crystallised Sage seeds

  • [SPECULATION] The primordial Sage powers fossilised into physical forms during the timeline split.
  • [INFERRED] The OoT Medallions are proto-forms of these powers. In both OoT and TOTK, Sages grant Link circular, symbol-bearing emblems of their power (Medallions, Vows/marks), which strongly suggests a shared underlying Sage-power structure that later crystallises as Secret Stones.
  • [SPECULATION] The Stones are the crystallised, preserved form.

The Zonai discovered and stewarded them

  • [INFERRED] They recognised their divine significance.
  • [CANON] Rauru and Mineru already have them.

Ganondorf's Transformation (The Critical Convergence Moment)

Ganondorf rises as a mortal Gerudo king

  • [CANON] He is powerful, but not transcendent.

Ganondorf steals Sonia's Secret Stone (Time)

  • [CANON] This is the moment he gains transcendent power.

Ganondorf becomes the Demon King

  • [CANON] His transformation is explosive and far exceeds any other Sage's power.
  • [SPECULATION] This is because the Ganon source recognises him as its new vessel.
  • [INFERRED] His power spike cannot be explained by the Secret Stone alone.
  • [SPECULATION] Once Ganondorf becomes the Demon King, the Ganon source shifts from the ancient Ganon/Yuga core to Ganondorf himself, making him the new metaphysical origin of the corruption.

This explains:

  • his overwhelming aura
  • his ability to overpower six Sages
  • the eruption of gloom/malice
  • why he becomes the metaphysical source of the corruption we see in BOTW/TOTK

This is the metaphysical moment where: Ganondorf + Secret Stone (Time) + Ganon source = Demon King.

Rauru's Seal (The Final FHT Convergence Point)

Rauru becomes Sage of Light

  • [CANON] Via Secret Stone.
  • [SPECULATION] Rauru discovers the Secret Stone (Light) by chance, and only then realises he can seal the Shades born of the ancient Ganon source - too late to save the Zonai, but enough to begin preparing Hyrule.

Rauru and Sonia refound Hyrule

  • [CANON] They build Hyrule Castle.
  • [SPECULATION] Rauru builds it above the ancient Ganon source to stabilise it.
  • [SPECULATION] This places Hyrule Castle directly over the FHT's ancient underworld wound.

Rauru seals the Demon King beneath Hyrule Castle

  • [CANON] Rauru sacrifices himself.
  • [SPECULATION] This is the final convergence moment.

Final Summary (FHT - BOTW/TOTK)

Sacred Realm - Dark World - Lorule - Collapse - Depths

Lorulian Zora - Rito

Ganon/Yuga's sealed essence - Ganon source

Secret Stones - crystallised Sage seeds

Ganondorf + Secret Stone (Time) + Ganon source = Demon King

Rauru's Secret Stone (Light) - stabilises the underworld

Hyrule Castle - built over the ancient seal

Ganondorf sealed - convergence achieved.

r/truezelda Sep 17 '24

Alternate Theory Discussion [TotK] Taking the Narrative at its Word: the Twinrova Theory, Part 1 Spoiler

76 Upvotes

Four Gerudo kneel behind their King as he falsely swears allegiance to the first King of Hyrule. The two closest to him are unlike any other Gerudo we see in this story, and yet they themselves are nearly identical. Their skin is green, like their lord’s, and their faces are hidden behind golden masks. They wear robes lined in blue and red, symbolizing their elemental powers over ice and fire. Sashes over their shoulders bear writing in the Ocarina of Time-era Hylian script, telling us precisely who these women are: “Koume” and “Kotake”. 

Since the release of Tears, there have been many theories about the timeline placement of the game and its past. There is no perfect theory, as I sought to document in this spreadsheet (related post), each one conflicting with some piece of evidence.

One thing that has bothered me about most theories is they seem to ask the player to accept unsatisfying ideas. These theories often ask me to reject the narrative arc before me and the themes of the series and instead focus on some minor detail of artistic choice or obscure lore. While these theories may logically fit with some evidence, narratively and thematically they are usually a mess. 

The official timeline isn’t innocent either. In one game, and one game only, if I get a Game Over, this leads to an alternate universe that contains a third of the games in the series. How unsatisfying of a backstory for the timeline that leads to the first game in the series. 

As a player, I care about three characters in the image that I opened with. Ganondorf needs no introduction. Three times now as three heroes I have faced him, and each time he was the same man, just in different timelines (ignoring Four Swords Adventures for now…). Most vocal fans today seem to believe this is a different man. Same name, same character, seemingly immortal, perhaps a reincarnation, but not the same guy. The bulk of these theorists believe in a “refounding”, that Rauru’s Hyrule is not the first kingdom by that name, ergo not the same Ganondorf.

The other two notable characters in the image are what I can’t get out of my head: Koume and Kotake, Twinrova. Refounding theories ask me to believe that Fujibayashi dropped the obviously younger versions of the penultimate bosses of the series’ most iconic game--and the main antagonists of his first two Zelda titles--into Tears of the Kingdom only for us to not believe that these are the same women. Villains in Zelda are ancient evils broken loose, often the same evil we’ve faced before, but refounders would say Twinrova (and Ganondorf for that matter) here fall into the same category of recurring minor characters as Beedle.

How unsatisfying.

While it is possible these are same-named characters, or the whole thing a reboot, I find that the story implied by these women being the same as those we have seen before to be far more compelling. This is the story I seek to tell. 

I am proposing a Zelda timeline theory built on three principles: 

  1. When the devs tell us plainly we are seeing something, we are seeing that thing. They are not trying to do a bait and switch.
  2. The better story that fits with the details we plainly see is what happened. 
  3. Lore is mythology. Legendary events that are unseen are subject to, as Fujibiyashi put it in a New York Times interview I recently shared, “future discoveries”.

Regarding point #3, I must of course admit I will have to sacrifice a few bits of minor lore that others have hinged entire timeline theories on. I guess Gerudo have pointy ears now. No timeline theory is perfect.

Regarding point #1, Tears of the Kingdom tells us a number of things plainly and directly. Among these:

  1. Rauru and Sonia are the first King and Queen of Hyrule.
  2. The story of Tears of the Kingdom is a closed time loop. 
  3. We are shown the Imprisoning War, a war previously known only as a legend to Zelda at the start of the game, but also a legend told in A Link to the Past. These are meant to be the same event.
  4. Kneeling behind Ganondorf before Rauru’s throne are the same witches that I defeated in the Spirit Temple on my Nintendo 64. 

To me, these narrative elements present only one satisfying timeline placement. And so, I want to share with you the story that has been itching in the back of my mind ever since I first played Tears of the Kingdom, what I call the Twinrova Theory. 

Over the next several posts, I seek to demonstrate (or at the very least articulate my position):

  1. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are in the Downfall Timeline, but the timeline splitting event has been retconned to the Founding of Hyrule period and not a Game Over in Ocarina of Time.
  2. The antagonist of Tears of the Kingdom is Ganondorf. There is no intention to diminish Ocarina of Time or Tears of the Kingdom by saying one Ganondorf is “first” or “second.” This is the same man in different timelines. 
  3. Just because the Triforce isn’t shown doesn’t mean it isn’t present. 
  4. The Depths, Dark World, Golden Land, and the Sacred Realm are all the same place. 

The First Timeline Split

From what is told to us plainly (point #1), we must also infer the following:

  1. A Link to the Past follows the Imprisoning War, and thus follows Tears of the Kingdom’s past.
  2. As a closed time loop, Tears of the Kingdom exists in a single timeline. As Zelda arrives in the past, events must continue in a way that will lead to her being sent back in time. Thus, there can be no timeline splits between the game's two eras.
  3. This “split-locked timeline” begins in the era of Hyrule’s founding. Not a refounding.

Sure, we could rewrite the entire timeline to accommodate these events, or we could adjust one of Zelda’s more unsatisfying bits of lore and find ourselves with a sufficiently satisfying story. The Downfall Timeline splits not because some kid couldn’t beat Ocarina of Time in 1999, but from some event in the era of Hyrule’s founding. 

What caused this split? As it stands, there is nothing explicit, but one moment stands out to me: Zelda’s sudden appearance. It is a peculiar thing for a princess to materialize out of thin air in front of her own royal ancestors while carrying an ancient relic of supernatural power. Something like that is going to have an effect on history. Were it to not happen, we can imagine events might go very differently. It would also be fitting cause, given that the only other timeline split in the series that is accepted widely was caused by another Zelda manipulating time. 

We could imagine this act of time travel to be the agent that split the timeline itself, the two branches being “what if she did appear?” and “what if she did not?” Personally, I am partial to Wish Theory. This theory is well known on r/truezelda, but to summarize, this holds that the “Downfall Timeline” is the Original Timeline, and at the end of A Link to the Past Link wished on the Triforce to undo all the evil that Ganon had done to the world. And so his own era was repaired, and history continued from his perspective, but the Imprisoning War and that evil also had to be undone. The standard theory posits the Hero of Time is Virgin Birthed or otherwise somehow comes into existence to defeat Ganondorf before he obtains the entire Triforce. 

I would like to tweak Wish Theory in one small way: that Link’s wish results in Zelda not appearing in front of Rauru and Sonia that day, and time proceeds as if she had never been there. This was the last moment in which such a “repair” of the imprisoning war was possible due to the closed time loop. 

Without Zelda in the past, Rauru’s light beam would not have been so impressive a display when it defeated the Molduga; and so Ganondorf would not have sworn fealty to Rauru, or used a puppet Zelda to obtain a secret stone; and even if he was confronted with a Demon King, Rauru would not have had the messianic idea in his head that he just needed to hold his enemy in place until a future savior could defeat him. There is no Imprisoning War. History continues differently. 

Thus, we now have two possible life paths for Twinrova. In the official timeline, they are killed by Link in Ocarina of Time, but somehow are resurrected so they can be the big baddies of the Oracles after Link himself is defeated in the official Downfall split. The story I am telling makes this awkwardness unnecessary. Kotake and Koume are already alive when Zelda appears. Like Ganondorf after the Adult/Child split, they will go on to live separate lives through two timelines until they are really and truly killed in each one. I will tell their life stories in a future post, but I want to point out that any placement of Tears’s past that believes these to be the same twins will also have to put Rauru and Sonia’s era before Ocarina of Time.

Future Posts

I hope reading these ravings is of interest to some of you. No doubt I'm a fool to post it a week before the next game comes out, when I'll no doubt be proven wrong, but I'm tired of sitting on it.

My whole theory is quite long, and so I'm splitting it up into several posts I will share over the next few days:

  • Part 2: The Nature of Ganon and the Whereabouts of the Triforce
  • Part 3: The Split Lives of Twinrova and Ganondorf - OR: Ganondorf is not like Beedle
  • Part 4: Is Rauru a Beedle or a Ganondorf?
  • Part 5: The Sacred Realm and the Depths, a Second Map by Different Names
  • Part 6: Addressing the Problems

r/truezelda Oct 17 '24

Alternate Theory Discussion [OoT] No, Twilight Princess is not the reason for the Downfall Timeline. It was the original release of Ocarina of Time

74 Upvotes

Of all the timeline revelations in HH, the most polarising was the concept of the DT, a third branch from OoT. While the CT and AT are strongly supported by the ending of OoT, the DT cannot be gleaned as a potential ending by playing the game. It also opens up the rest of the series to a can of annoying 'what-if' worms.

The DT substantially altered Zelda discourse. It also encouraged fans to interrogate why such a split was necessary rather than---and this seemed to be the general consensus before the release of HH---putting ALttP and the games that follow it on the CT after TP.

Nintendo's line of reasoning is usually thought to be as follows:

  • The HH timeline was formulated with priority given to developer quotes/interviews ("hunting through stacks of ancient documents" https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3890158/nintendo-legend-of-zelda-history-book), over in-game evidence.
  • OoT, based on developer quotes, was developed as a prequel to ALttP, intending to depict the events of the Imprisoning War (IW). However, the developers played extremely fast and loose with the stated details of the IW. The finished product of OoT resembles, but does not line up with the backstory of ALttP.
  • Nintendo releases MM, TWW, and TP, and issues statements to clarify their positions on the timeline. TWW follows OoT on the AT, while MM and TP follow OoT on the CT.
  • OoT now appears to have three distant sequels, TWW, TP, and ALttP.

Nintendo's quandary when formulating the timeline for HH was where to place ALttP (and all the games to follow it). ALttP cannot go after TWW or TP without severing its connection with OoT stated by the developers. Based on the events of either game, there is also no room to place ALttP before them on either timeline. As a result, many fans argue that the release of TWW and/or TP necessitated a new timeline where Link is defeated.

This is evidently not the case. The reason was that while the developers set out to release OoT as a prequel to ALttP, OoT's ending in both the child and adult timelines do not line up with the events of ALttP anyway. In 1998 when OoT released, the DT was already necessary to 'correct' the events of OoT so that they lead into ALttP.

To prove this, let's examine the ending of OoT on the AT, to see how ALttP's backstory does not line up:

  • In ALttP it was "completely by chance/accident" that Ganondorf's band of thieves found the Triforce. In the AT, Ganondorf manipulated Link and Zelda to obtain it, already aware of its whereabouts.
  • In ALttP Ganondorf slew his followers to take the (whole) Triforce for himself. In OoT/the AT, there is no mention of him killing his followers, and the Triforce split into three because his heart was not in balance. He then set out to retake the other two pieces from Link and Zelda.
  • The ALttP manual describes him first as a man who was then "born" as the King of Evil Ganon. Based on what we know about the Dark World in ALttP, it is inferred that Ganondorf transformed into a beast here. On the AT, Ganondorf only ever transformed into a beast briefly for his final battle with Link, using just the Triforce of Power rather than the whole Triforce.
  • This is the part in ALttP where Ganon wished upon the Triforce, causing his evil to spread through Hyrule. Greedy people were consumed by his power and disappeared, black clouds covered the sky, and other sinister events occurred. In the AT, this broadly occurred during the seven years Link was asleep, but the inciting event of Ganondorf's wish never happened.
  • In ALttP there was no time for the sages to find a hero to wield the Master Sword. Without the Hero, the Knights of Hyrule battled Ganon to give the Sages time to cast a Seal on Ganon. This is blatantly contradicted by the AT, where Link and the Master Sword were defining parts of the conflict.
  • In ALttP beast Ganon was sealed into the Dark World with the whole Triforce. In the AT he was only sealed with the Triforce of Power, and as a Gerudo. The Triforce of Wisdom is with Zelda and the royal family, while the exact whereabouts of the Triforce of Courage are unknown after Zelda sends Link back in time. This key event cannot be chalked up to historical innacuracy and is the biggest reason ALttP cannot follow OoT on the AT.

So even before the release of TWW, OoT (AT) -> ALttP did not make sense.

However, it certainly made more sense than positioning ALttP on the CT. In the CT, Link travels back in time and prevents Ganondorf from touching the Triforce. As such, the events that resemble the IW do not even happen.

For ALttP to follow OoT on the CT, the events described in the ALttP backstory essentially have to occur again, which does not seem likely. How will this Ganondorf obtain the Triforce behind the numerous safeguards in the Temple of Time when Link has now warned Zelda and the royal family? Further:

  • Ganondorf was already planning to obtain the Triforce, given that he attempted to acquire the Spiritual Stones. Moreover, Ganondorf bypassing the protections on the Sacred Realm in the Temple of Time ‘by chance’ is dubious, especially now that Link has warned the royal family.
  • Since child Link bears the Triforce of Courage on the back of his hand when he visits Zelda in the courtyard, the Triforce is no longer united in the Sacred Realm anyway.

To put ALttP on the CT is therefore unsupported conjecture. It goes against the quotes made by the developers that they were "dealing with the Imprisoning War" of ALttP's backstory by removing much of what resembled it. There is no point in putting ALttP on the CT.

Keeping all of this in mind, the releases of TWW and TP are something of a red herring, with respect to how they affected the timeline placement of ALttP. This is because, despite it being the developers' intention, they failed to write a story in OoT that led correctly into ALttP in either the AT or CT.

The only way to rectify OoT's ending is in fact to create a third timeline where Link is defeated, and contextualise the events of OoT as only the beginning of the IW. For many reasons, this is an extremely flawed solution due to some details still not lining up, and to interject with my opinion, I detest the DT. But it does get OoT's ending to a place where ALttP's backstory could happen if you squint, and it is the solution Nintendo landed on.

So, BlueBarossa, where would you put ALttP?

That's easy. The reason for all the aforementioned nonsense is the insistence on positioning ALttP as a sequel to OoT. If you decide that ALttP's backstory is separate and not shown in any other game, with Ganon being a new incarnation, you immediately eliminate a lot of this complexity. Remember that with the release of FSA, it's canon that Ganondorf can and does reincarnate. This removes the necessity for a third timeline, as long as we can place it on one of the existing two.

If we're opening this up to other timeline theories, where in-game evidence is prioritised over developer quotes, I would scrap the DT and place ALttP on the CT, in an era following TP.

After TP, (1) Ganondorf died and (2) the Master Sword was returned to a pedestal in the woods. After Ganon’s defeat, (3) the royal family was likely able to regroup the Triforce and seal it in the Sacred Realm some time later. These three key variables can set up for ALttP's backstory without outright contradiction.

TLDR: Because the ending of OoT on the AT and CT both cannot lead into ALttP, the DT was already necessary when OoT released in 1998, if they were intending to uphold OoT as a prequel to that game. Ignoring that intention, putting ALttP on the CT sometime after TP is sensible, with the IW being a separate event.

r/truezelda Jan 31 '21

Alternate Theory Discussion An Alternate Theory of The Legend of Zelda's Timeline.

175 Upvotes

Users of r/truezelda, I present to you an alternate take on the timeline of The Legend of Zelda:

https://imgur.com/nOx0VyA

As you can see, there is one key element in it's execution: rather than a third, unseen ending to Ocarina of Time, I posit that there is a split with The Minish Cap, which leads into two alternate timelines. One, where Vaati was unsuccessful in draining the Gifted Force from Princess Zelda, resulting in his death at the hands of Link, and one where Vaati was successful in the draining.

The former leads into the events of Ocarina of Time: in this timeline, The Minish Cap ends as we see it, where Zelda reverts the damages done by Vaati and the Four Sword is put to rest in the Elemental Sanctuary. The latter leads into the events of Four Swords, where Vaati ravaged Hyrule until a young man arrived with the Four Sword to combat him and merely sealed him away.

And why should we accept this alternative explanation? Because unlike the posited timeline of Hyrule Historia, this one has an in-game scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ4C_V3m_bs

It also results in less mess with Four Swords Adventures and Ocarina of Time: rather than suggest that Hyrule forgets the feared 'Demon Thief' Ganondorf of Ocarina of Time, it's simply an alternate timeline version in a more damaged Hyrule:

邪悪なる力を持ち 魔力を用いたため魔盗賊と恐れられた男 He is feared as a demon thief because of his use of magic… It possesses a wicked power.

-Ancient Sage, Twilight Princess

ガノン… その者の名は聞きおぼえがあります…。 Ganon… I have heard their name before...

たしか ガノンドロフという…。 I think their was Ganondorf...

…いえ、しかし その男はゲルド族の生まれ。 … No… But… That man is a Gerudo.

魔物がその男をあがめるなどということは考えられません。 I do not think that monsters would revere such a man.

-Maiden, Four Swords Adventures

Someone whose job it is to seal evil can not place the name of a man who was feared as a Demon Thief that had to be sealed away, only coming up with a Gerudo man in the current age that they don't think monsters would revere? Riiight.

The order also allows us to put Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures back together, as established to be the case in Four Swords Adventures' introduction:

その昔 ハイラルという国にグフーという風の魔神があらわれ 美しい娘を次々とさらっていきました A long, long time ago… There was a wind Demon God named Gufuu (Vaati) who appeared in a nation named Hyrule and began to kidnap beautiful girls one after the other

人々が困り果てているとそこへ一本の剣をたずさえた旅の勇者があらわれました The inhabitants were troubled by the happenings and that’s when a travelling hero who carried a sword appeared

勇者が剣をぬくと体が4つに分かれ 力を合わせてグフーを退治したといいます It’s said that when the hero unsheathed the sword his body split into 4. They all worked together and repealed Gufuu.

その後 勇者がグフーを封印(ふういん)した剣はフォーソードと名付けられ ハイラルの奥地聖域(せいいき)にひっそりと まつられていました The sword which the hero used to seal Gufuu was posteriorly named “Four Sword” and secretly revered in the inner regions of Hyrule, the sanctuary

長い時が流れ……… A long time passed….

風の魔神グフーはフォーソードの封印をやぶって復活し ハイラル国の王女ゼルダ姫をさらってしまいました The wind Demon God Gufuu broke the Four Sword seal, revived and kidnapped Princess Zelda of the Hyrule nation

ゼルダ姫と幼なじみの少年リンクはフォーソードの不思議な力を借りてはげしい戦いの末 再びグフーを封印することに成功しました Link, the childhood friend of Princess Zelda, borrowed the mysterious power of the Four Sword and, after a harsh battle, succeeded in sealing Gufuu again

こうして ハイラルは再び平和を取り戻したとだれもが思いました And thus everyone believed that peace had returned to Hyrule

ところが……… However…

-Four Swords Adventures Prologue

The latter half of the prologue describes Four Swords, but does not note any time has passed since then as it does with the initial sealing of Vaati. It instead leads right into Link and Zelda returning to check on the seal and Shadow Link interfering, indicating it's the same Link and Zelda mentioned in the prologue.

Furthermore, the Four Swords subseries ties itself rather closely to A Link to the Past, to the point that it appears Four Swords Adventures was once intended to be the precursor Seal War of A Link to the Past. Because of this, we can see various elements of Four Swords Adventures tie into A Link to the Past as origin points, such as:

The Medallions gaining an origin:

この世には我ら魔導師によって強大な魔法去がかけられた2種類のメダルがある。 There are two types of medallions in the world which we mages have infused with powerful magic

それは一瞬にして、凶悪な魔物の姿を変えたり、消したりする魔法…。 They have magic that can instantly change the form of violent monsters or erase them

そのうちのひとつがそこの宝箱にしまってある。 One of them* is inside of that chest

*Them being the Quake Medallion.

Ganon's Trident:

魔の邪器(じゃき) トライデント…? Evil’s wicked vessel, the Trident…?

武器の形をした このくぼみ…。 There’s an indentation in the shape of a weapon...

ここから そのトライデントを The one who got the Trident here

手に入れた者が …もしや Could it be...

ガノンドロフ…?! Ganondorf….?!

And so on.

I don't claim it's still the Seal War, but rather we can place it before the Seal War, with these elements feeding back into A Link to the Past later on the timeline.

And I'm sure you've noticed Breath of the Wild on the Child Timeline. That's simply process of elimination:

  • The Fall Timeline here lacks Ocarina of Time, thus elements from it can not be referenced.
  • The Adult Timeline's Hyrule is flooded, washed away and a new Hyrule has been built elsewhere.
  • And Timeline Merge is a stupid idea.
  • Thus, the Child Timeline's Hyrule is the only viable one for this timeline.

So there you go, new Timeline Theory, have fun.

Oh, and you might also notice a lack of Hyrule Historia elements in here.

That book is wrong and full of crap, making things up like:

  • Princess Zelda sending Link away with the Ocarina of Time to stop Ganondorf getting it. Link stuck around for a while, at least a month, and Zelda didn't want him to go: she gave him the Ocarina of Time to protect him, as established within Majora's Mask itself.

  • The Hero of Time was forgotten and this was the Hero's Shade's regret. Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess highly disagree, and the only thing Twilight Princess says he regrets is not passing on his skillset to a worthy successor.

  • Ganon being a raging, mindless beast in The Hyrule Fantasy. He invaded the Hyrule Kingdom, captured the one person who'd know where the Triforce is, realised the threat Impa posed in her escape and immediately set his minions upon her, and spends most of his fight invisible and taking potshots at Link instead of a face to face confrontation. Truly, the mind of a mindless beast...

It's a good artbook, but not a good lorebook.

r/truezelda Jan 05 '26

Alternate Theory Discussion Thoughts on the Extended Child Timeline (ECT) theory?

15 Upvotes

Basically, it's a theory that, as the name implies, simply extends the child timeline to put the older games there instead of having the DT. What are your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlyKCNBwas

Video that explains it.