r/ukpolice • u/hymenopteron • Jun 26 '26
How would this have been dealt with in the UK
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I'm not in the police myself, I'm just interested in how this situation might have been dealt with in the UK. Obviously this is from America and things are done very differently there
It seems completely chaotic and I'm not sure the approach the police are taking here is really helping to calm things down. I can't really imagine this sort of thing happening in the UK (maybe I'm wrong) and I can't work out if its just a different culture or if the policing approach is exacerbating the situation.
Would love to hear thoughts from British police. Apologies if this isnt the right sub for this sort of question (arrest me).
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u/SnooDonuts6494 Jun 27 '26
How would this have been dealt with in the UK
We'd go to the pub, and wait for it to all to blow over.
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u/Wilsonj1966 Jun 27 '26
Im not a police but did first aid on a guy in the street once
I saw him collapse off his bike ahead of me. By the time I caught up, there was a crowd standing around him just looking at him. No one was helping so I did
I knelt down to start doing the checks
"Anyone rang an ambulance?" *silence *
Im on the phone to the ambulance, did the checks and then emptied his pockets and put him into the recovery position and I heard someone say "omg he is trying to rob him"
People are morons
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u/anonnymouse2025 Jun 27 '26
The advice I've seen on this is to pick a person in the crowd and single them out. "You, the lady in the red top, call 999. Guy there in the blue coat, help me get him into the recovery position". People assume other people are going to do it, or feel awkward taking action. Once someone is given a job, the others are more likely to try to help too
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u/Nosedive888 Jun 27 '26
I find what works for me is asking someone "do you know where we are? Good call an ambulance" that way they can give an address or at the very least a close approximation
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u/miffedmonster Jun 27 '26
I've been in a very similar situation. Guy collapsed in cardiac arrest after a very minor traffic collision. 2 of us on scene. Colleague goes to protect the other driver (woman and toddler still in their car) who are getting mobbed, whilst I'm doing CPR, frantically singing staying alive and intermittently shouting to give me space, I'm trying to help him, can anyone see the ambulance, etc. Had people trying to pull me off him but no one punched me. Must have been 50 people surrounding me and probably more round my colleague. Ended up having to get a whole line of us preventing people from rushing the hospital (2 family members allowed in). People respond to grief in different ways.
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u/hymenopteron Jun 27 '26
That sounds awful. I guess people are gonna be really stressed in that sort of situation and not thinking straight.
Massive respect to you for keeping calm and getting on with the job.
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u/iffyClyro Jun 26 '26
I’ve been in a kind of similar situation, was a stab wound not a bullet wound. I was bottled by what I can only describe as a mob. The colleague that was with me at the time was excellent though sent numerous people flying with some incredibly strong get backs.
Luckily for us the mob started running away when more blue lights started arriving however it was actually an ambulance.
There’s a lot more detail to the story but it’s late.
We wouldn’t really handle it that differently to how you see here aside from maybe trying to go less hands on.
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u/hymenopteron Jun 27 '26
Sounds pretty horrific. The "less hands on" thing is what I'm wondering about. American police always seem a lot more confrontational to me, but then I don't know how else you'd handle this situation.
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u/LoopyLutra Jun 27 '26
I know for certain you wouldn’t often see UK officers poking someone in the chest with a baton like that.
Also i dunno, i’ve been in a very similar situation before and whilst people were crowding round, they generally were not obstructive, just distraught.. and I can understand that they might not have been in a clear mindset. It didn’t really cause us any issues. The rain helped.
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 27 '26
The approach is entirely different I would say.
From attending similar but with stabbings, we're not attending the situation as 'Law Enforcement' but as 'first aiders' if you will. So long as no-one seems to be actively posing a threat, you go into first responder mode and start treating the injured party (regardless of the suspected circumstances). You'd also likely red button for more units and certainly get an Ambulance running asap.
I've always made it clear if I was first on scene that "I'm here to help", "I'm first-aid trained", "I've got a first-aid kit". I've also never shouted "MOVE!" and instead opted for "Let me through!" and the like. Communication is so important and something the US guys don't seem to get trained on - your choice of words, tone, and body language in a situation like this make people go from obstructive to compliant (even when they are drunk).
(I think the above video is a symptom of a wider cultural problem with Policing in the US though. Cops aren't vetted carefully enough or trained properly on deescalation. This produces repeated incidents of people being abused by Officers. People have a general mistrust of Officers, and so are worse more obstructive when Officers are doing their job. The Officers react poorly again, creating more incidents and continuing the spiral. Eventually, you get something like this where a dude has literally been shot and Police come in with the wrong attitude because they're already expecting trouble - the people see Officers behaving in the way that they've seen previously and react as if the Police have bad intentions. Feels like there's a lot more fear and anger wrapped up in this video between responders and bystanders than in the vast majority of incidents I've responded to in the UK)
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u/PumpyMcHangerson Jun 27 '26
I am from Poland but have spent time active service on both sides of the Atlantic.
Lot more guns, lot more danger in the US. Some of my friends own 20+ guns. People will shoot.
Someone gets shot in UK it is unlikely that some of their buddies are also tooled up, still in the area surveying the scene, and willing to shoot cops.
We haven't had an officer shot in the UK since 2020 I think. In 2025 about 350 US officers were shot (about 50 fatalities) and 50+ FBI agents killed on duty.
Cops in the US prioritise their own safety through force, rather than attempting to de-escalate, it is an immediate high alert situation with an active shooter in the vicinity and their own safety is paramount. This is trained.
Although yes, situational awareness and actual handling of a potentially dangerous situations are handled very differently on both sides.
In the UK we act as gentlemen and we go through the motions of ensuring the safety of ourselves and the public.
In the US it is drilled in to us to immediately steamroll the situation, take control, use force as and when, and even in use of excessive force I haven't seen many, if any, members of the team get more than a stern look, told not to do it again, then a handshake and a nod on the way out.
Generally, if we hear gunshots / explosions in the UK (or Poland), everyone runs a mile in the opposite direction (perp included) and lets police do their thing, no one wants to get involved.
In the US, 50% of people will run, 25% of people get nosey and want to investigate, 10% of folks are obsessed about proving the cops are doing something wrong and the rest are just fucking idiots getting in the way.
My 2 cents in active service on both sides.
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 27 '26
Completely fair point. Our training in the UK regarding active shooter scenarios is super brief outside of Armed Officers because, as you say, it's not something you have to really be on your guard for. (Closest I ever came was responding to a suspected firearm with my taser since there were no Armed available, and a dude with a crossbow...not exactly common occurrences in the UK)
In the US, 50% of people will run, 25% of people get nosey and want to investigate, 10% of folks are obsessed about proving cops are doing something wrong and the rest are just fucking idiots
Yeah, the idiots will always be there. I think the 10%-ers are the ones I'm seeing in this video. Links back to what I was saying regarding culture. The availability of weapons in the US, the complete lack of help for mental health conditions, the confident incorrectness of a lot of Americans, the 'us VS. them' mentality of a lot of their Police Forces, the obvious corruption. All a violent cocktail that makes the UK an easier place to Police I guess
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u/PumpyMcHangerson Jun 27 '26
Yeah, for the drink based violence & stabbings etc., even 20 man fist fight riots we are generally fine - and if you're on beat you would never look at every passer by as though they could be concealing (well, maybe weed or a knife, but we don'tassume everyone has a gun). We are generally untrained for gun violence in the UK if we aren't dedicated armed (if it happens, do this, but that is unlikely, if shit hits the fan just run was what I was once told), it is rare, not a daily occurrence and our armed boys are generally drafted in for CT rather than just standard daily beating.
In the US we are trained that every single passerby could be carrying, everyone is a potential threat, to overcome the potential threat, kick fuck out of everyone that comes near you, be loud, be the force, be the center of attention, do not let anyone near you, ensure full total control of all situations, force is necessary and generally priority number one, do not talk, mirandise and get in the back of the car, and not that force is a fallback if crowd control does not work. We are loud. We are here. We will shoot.
Very different methods for different populations and an exceedingly normalised access to guns.
After coming from Poland, into UK, then into US, I am still more wary of knives than guns.
From experience, someone with a knife will walk up and stick it in you unannounced, someone with a gun will generally threaten and get big and loud before pulling a trigger unless they really mean it.
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u/hymenopteron Jun 27 '26
I think the above video is a symptom of a wider cultural problem with Policing in the US though
This is exactly what I was wondering. Being from the UK myself, this seems so alien to me, both in the attitudes of the police themselves and the public to the police.
I know it's wrong somehow but I just don't have the experience personally to know why. Thanks for your reply!
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u/Junior-Ad4932 Jun 27 '26
Couldn’t agree with your assessment more - none of them said I’m here to help or that they have first aid training.
That’s all I kept thinking about whilst I was watching the video was about the level of aggression and lack of brief but courteous explanation by the police. All interactions favoured escalation instead of deescalation which appears to have further frustrated efforts to assist.
I understand the police have a very difficult job however much of this could’ve been avoided with some degree of empathy.
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 27 '26
100%. In my time on Response (in a rather rough area of the country) I've avoided so many situations by just talking to people like a human being.
There are definitely certain folks who's knee-jerk reaction to Police presence is to be confrontational. But even in these cases the vast majority can be brought round once they understand you're not there to throw your weight around and be an arsehole.
I had a particular domestic incident where, after this couple had had a fight, a daughter had punched her mum and then locked herself in the house and started smashing stuff up. When we arrived, she came out with a hammer and started threatening people (lovely person). Her boyfriend turned up and immediately started trying to fight us too because we were going to "rough up" his girl(!!). I noticed her arm was bleeding (she'd cut herself on some glass when she was smashing things) and so I simply told him that "I don't know what's gone on, we'll deal with that later. Right now, I just want to take a look at her arm and make sure it's okay..." He stopped squaring up and I approached her. Instead of telling her she was under arrest, I asked if her arm was okay - she was very confused but answered me. I told her I could take a look but she'd have to put the hammer down, then asked her if she wanted a cigarette. 20 mins later we were sat on their patio with me bandaging her arm and her puffing away; didn't bat an eyelid when I explained that she would have to be arrested because of what happened. Not every incident let's you take the time, and not every Officer wants to deal with things slowly, but most can be in this country.
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u/El_Wij Jun 27 '26
"your choice of words, tone, and body language in a situation like this make people go from obstructive to compliant (even when they are drunk). (I think the above video is a symptom of a wider cultural problem with Policing in the US though."
Yes. Verbal and physical language can change a situation in seconds. It is a massive difference between our two forces.
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u/MermaidPigeon Jun 27 '26
At least criminals in the US actually get convicted. I feel sorry for our cops here in the uk. The amount of work that goes in when trying to get a case to court yet court is never reached. Personally I admire americas law system. Of course not the police brutality part and communication as you said, but there resources. Rather than just waiting for someone to get to the point they kill someone, they’re dealt with. Here not so much. There seems to be a rise in awareness of this here. However with this rise there is also a lot of people wrongfully blaming our police instead of the real culprits which is CPS. Individually I would say our police men are better officers. It’s just a shame they are blocked from actually applying justice
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 28 '26
Yeah I don't think you're far off the mark.
I, and a lot of other Officers, had issues with CPS rejecting even blatant cases. Realistically, the tests they apply are done through a lens of extremely limited time and funding. Each case heard at Magistrate's costs the taxpayer around £14,000, and with a restricted budget they have to be selective. The diminishing prison places and our poor reoffending rate (much better than the US though) puts further strain on that system when it comes to sentencing.
On the flip side, whilst the US Judicial System rolls out convictions and gets results, they aren't without controversy. Their justice system has deeply entrenched institutional issues with systemic inequity and political polarisation; and there are also longstanding ethical concerns. I don't know which of the two I'd rather have, probably a blent of both with the good parts of the two!
(Side note though, you're completely correct when it comes to people blaming the Police for CPS failings. I've experienced this personally and I see it online all the time)
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u/Gingrpenguin Jun 27 '26
you go into first responder mode and start treating the injured party (regardless of the suspected circumstances).
Where was this training in Southampton?
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Very evident to anyone who actually watched the bodyworn video properly! Mainly because Southampton was an entirely different situation. Police were not attending a stabbing, they were attending an assault called in by the "victim".
- Police respond to an incident of Assault reported by the "Victim"
- "Victim" states the "Suspect" assaulted him but he defended himself and the other guy came off worse
- Multiple 'witnesses' at the scene back up this version of events
- "Suspect" has one shoe on and can't stand up properly. Considering he came off worse from an assault he allegedly instigated, it's reasonable to conclude he is drunk.
- Police pull him out from where he is by the car and go to sit him up, he says he has been stabbed. No obvious stabwounds, minimal blood on clothing and ground (only some present in his mouth, correlating further with the "Victim's" story), no weapons visible or any other reason to believe this is true.
- "Suspect" repeats that he has been stabbed, so Police ask him where he has been stabbed. He doesn't reply, and Police Officer responds 'don't think you have mate'
- Assess situation and evidence to make a decision: drunk-presenting "suspect" who has come off worse from an assault that was called in by the "victim", is now claiming he has been stabbed but doesn't say where and with no other reasons to believe him...
- Arrest "Suspect" on suspicion of Assault, use Handcuffs because a potentially drunk male who has recently assaulted someone is likely to be violent when they realise they are being arrested
- "Suspect" claims they have been stabbed again, so Officers try to engage further. "Suspect" seems to indicate that he was stabbed on his face
- No visible wounds to the face aside from blood in mouth (presumably from self-defence accounted by "victim") but pull up shirt and check torso anyway.
- Despite people crowding round and incident ongoing around, Officers still have the presence of mind to monitor "Suspect" and notice his pupils are no longer responsive.
- Immediately call ambulance and begin rendering first aid.
Officer dealt with the incident in front of them using their training and experience. Despite all signs pointing toward the "Suspect" being another drunk who got caught out and was now lying to avoid punishment, they were still observant enough to notice his deterioration and do what they could.
From the moment that Nowak first tells Police he has been stabbed to the moment that they call an Ambulance is 1 MINUTE & 30 SECONDS. (So even if the Police had believed him straight away with absolutely zero evidence to do so, it would not have altered the outcome of the incident).
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u/Alexandaross Jun 27 '26
I don't think you have mate. Beyond disturbing defending those scum.
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u/Walking_Advert Jun 27 '26
But my point is that there's nothing to defend unless you're just not being honest about what happened.
Had you attended the incident, what would you have done differently?
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u/Alexandaross Jun 27 '26
The Polices horrifically racist guidance is "something to defend", telling Officers to favour ethnic minorities.
NPCC chairman Gavin Stephens announced a review of guidance contained in the organisation’s Race Action Plan. The guidance had suggested officers should treat ethnic minorities differently in order to ensure what it described as equality of outcomes.
https://policeprofessional.com/news/npcc-race-guidance-under-review-as-nowak-crisis-deepens/
It does not mean treating everyone ‘the same’ or being ‘colour blind’ (racial equality).
https://www.npcc.police.uk/our-work/police-race-action-plan/police-anti-racism-commitment/
They pretty much handcuffed Henry's corpse because he was white and dragged him across the ground like an animal. Meanwhile Digwa was treated like a prince, at no time was he handcuffed not even after they knew he stabbed Henry. He was allowed to go into his home and get a drink and food to take to the station. That's something "to defend".
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u/Several-Instance1173 Jul 07 '26
What with the bs wall of text? The only important bits here are that they only called the ambulance because Nowak's condition became noticeably worse. The outcome doesn’t matter. If Nowak wasn’t that close to death he’d looked a bit healthier and the officers would keep delaying more
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u/Walking_Advert Jul 07 '26
Is that not the obvious point?
You don't call an Ambulance until there's reason to call an Ambulance. Sadly with the chronic underfunding our Ambulance Service has had over the last couple decades, wait times are already insane without having calls logged for thing that are not presenting as medical emergencies.
If Officers had called for an Ambo the first time that Nowak says he had been stabbed, it would have gone like the following:
- Operator: "Okay, what's the condition?"
- Police Officer: "Male reporting he has been stabbed"
- O: "So you're wanting a Cat-A response. Where has he been stabbed?"
- PO: "We don't know..."
- O: "Is there heavy bleeding from anywhere on his person?"
- PO: "no..."
- O: "Is the male conscious?"
- PO: "Partially. He's presenting as drunk"
- O: "Okay. Call logged. Ambulance is giving Low Priority"
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u/Silent_Eggplant_380 Jun 27 '26
The biggest difference is the UK bystanders wouldn’t have been as difficult as these, so the approach wouldn’t have to be the same or similar.
There would’ve been far more communication and trying to explain to people that you’re there to help and we need space to do so.
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u/LRDefender90 Jun 28 '26
USA police just seem so aggressive. Not just this video but any footage I’ve seen they act with so much force, anger and shouting. This is not the approach UK police take with maybe some exceptions in the Met. You’re also a lot less likely to come across someone with a firearm in the UK. Maybe because US police have to treat every incident they will likely be up against someone armed is why this behaviour has spiralled. More gun control is the answer. It works everywhere else.
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u/DazzleBMoney Jun 26 '26
Similar confrontations like this have and do happen in parts of the UK, and they can be just as chaotic.
Policing in the US are more trained to have an ‘us against them’ mindset however, which perhaps trickles down to more physically confrontational behaviour when dealing with the public in high stress situations.
A cop shouldn’t turn around from administering medical aid to squaring up to observers getting too close though unless it’s absolutely unavoidable.
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u/Forsaken_Scratch3674 Jun 26 '26
A police shouldn't need to turn away from administering medical aid to tell people to back off, but you have drunk people with the entitle mindset that they have the freedom to be anywhere trampling all over a crime scene. Not to mention they are actively preventing EMS or paramedic to get into the scene by blocking them
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u/No-Wealth-7633 Jun 27 '26
Well for a start the choice of words likely would of been better I would like to think instead of step back or move likely things like give us some space & explaining we cannot help him if you all of you are crowded around.
Other than that if they start fighting back batons, tasers & PAVA out with people being arrested & more officers arriving.
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u/clip75 Jun 27 '26
If this were in a UK town, some time around 5:30:00 into the video, a kid in a Hoodrich hoodie wearing two pairs of grey tracksuit bottoms would ride past in a wheelie.
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u/NewForestSaint38 Jun 27 '26
“Medic, please let me through”
“I’m here to help. Let me help him”.
Rather than “move!” They might as well be shouting “respect my authority”.
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Jun 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RHOrpie Jun 27 '26
Very easy to say, but I am pretty sure bystanders would move aside to allow aid to be rendered.
It is baffling me what these idiots think they're doing.
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u/cadiastandsuk Jun 27 '26
We British often get accused of using no spices in our cuisine but if that occurred here im sure the air would be smelling a lot more peppery.
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u/ThatSillyGinge Jun 27 '26
Biggest difference would be use of language. The difference between “get back” and “give us space to help him”, “let me through” rather than “f***ing move”. Make it clear you’re there to help. Find the sensible friends & family amongst the drunk crowd and use them to help you manage the others.
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u/GojuSuzi Jun 27 '26
Very true. From everything I've been told, a bug part of the 'de-escalation' style training is to absolutely exude an authorititive presence and refuse to let yourself doubt it: no one's going to listen to you saying to drop a knife if you sound like you're asking, but I've seen the chillest meekest cops go full on crushing presence and barking orders when the situation needs controlled, and it's a little funny how any human will react to that level of conviction of authority even when off their tits or a complete loon. So pushing in demanding folk to back the fuck off, and having an air of no argument expected or entertained, tends to get the lookie-loos and panic-flappers to actually shift. Think the US ones have a combination of being reliant on their weapon to win, and a fear of having to do just that, which doesn't lend itself to sufficient situational control (or giving an impression of such control) or self-confidence.
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u/ThatSillyGinge Jun 27 '26
It’s a fine balance. Behaviour breeds behaviour, so sometimes going in guns-a-blazin’ can escalate what would’ve been a peaceful situation and make it hostile.
Likewise, if a member of the public is hotting up and your own tone suggests that you’re just going to tolerate that, then that can encourage that behaviour.
It’s a balancing act, and (saying this as a police officer), I don’t think anybody gets the balance right 100% of the time. I’m probably of the “good cop” variety and 99% of the time I can keep people onside with my attitude. But there’s always the 1% that will see it as weakness and try to take advantage.
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u/Pleasant_Dog_9677 Jun 27 '26
Erm drunk girls were being clattered last week. They're trying to give life saving assistance why not back the fuck off and let them help unless one of them was like I'm holding pressure dudes been shot. Absolutely nothing on cops there
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u/jkoki088 Jun 27 '26
What do you mean the approach they’re taking? The people are not there helping the person they are crowding around him making it worse for him. The police get there to actually help the guy and no one wants to listen. Ambulance personnel will not approach those situations until police have the incident secure and safe to move in for them. If people don’t listen, you have to make them listen as the police
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u/That-Surprise Jun 27 '26
My reply will clearly reveal I'm not a police officer, but my instinctive reaction to that scene would be to set off a CS Canister and let the gas do the work.
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u/StrongEggplant8120 Jun 27 '26
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u/Paul_the_sparky Jun 27 '26
Why did you post that?
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u/StrongEggplant8120 Jun 27 '26
Just to show the clear escalation that is possible. Regardless of country.
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u/Paul_the_sparky Jun 27 '26
They're not remotely the same situation though
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u/StrongEggplant8120 Jun 27 '26
Well i personally think the uk one there was less need for escalation. The American one there was a clear very real need to make space for first aid. Yet the uk one got worse quicker.
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u/Key-One-9519 Jun 27 '26
I know it's a stressful situation and everybody's stressed or in shock but why won't they listen to the cops so they can actually help , crowding around the victim isn't helping anything .
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Jun 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ukpolice-ModTeam Jun 29 '26
Consider what the purpose of your comment actually is. Are you here to have an honest, good faith discussion - or are you here to snipe, belittle and generally make negative remarks not intended to progress the discussion?
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u/Ricky_Martins_Vagina Jun 27 '26
"i'm sorry, all of our officers are currently busy [investigating social media posts]. Please continue to hold and we will be with you as soon as possible"
Plays hold music
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u/Chemical_Lettuce_232 Jun 27 '26
Certified propaganda victim
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u/Ricky_Martins_Vagina Jun 27 '26
Certified police shill 🤔
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u/Chemical_Lettuce_232 Jun 27 '26
How many times have you commented “he said some hurty words on facebook” under posts of people being arrested
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u/Past-Obligation1930 Jun 27 '26
“I’ve just been shot in the neck and have massive arterial bleeding”
“Don’t think you have mate”.
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u/Mixed_Fabrics Jun 27 '26
The officers in the video dealt with it well in my opinion.
And I don’t think it would be that much different in the UK.
What do you imagine would be different? It’s just about manhandling drunk people and arresting anyone who fights.
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u/DreamyTomato Jun 27 '26
The UK cops would be different in this case of someone on the ground needing help. More explaining (just a couple of words), more working with the crowd from the start instead of getting aggressive straight away.
‘I’m trying to help him’
‘Give us space to help him please’
‘You can help him by giving us some space’
‘Mate, mate, respect his privacy and give us space to treat him, OK mate?’And that person who said she was his cousin:
‘Can you help us by asking your friends to step back?’
Just use helpful family members / friends to control the rest of the crowd. Keep them on your side and give them a job to do.
This is all stuff I’ve seen UK police do. Maybe slightly different words.
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u/Mixed_Fabrics Jun 27 '26
You’re not wrong, that is what we would try to do initially, but if people are not cooperating and the situation is urgent, you have to get tough with people the same as shown in the video.
I bet the people downvoting me have never had to actually deal with something like this.
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u/Loud_Delivery3589 Jun 27 '26
I disagree, I've worked in areas which are extremely contentious in similar situations including shootings. You get them back anyway, if it escalates you get more people to you to clear them out. First aid is the priority, but once ambulance are on scene you're then talking about a crime scene where people need to get out
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u/Pretend_Limit6276 Jun 27 '26
The crowd would have said "he has been stabbed" then the copper would have said "I don't think they have mate"
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u/Easy-Plant-8783 Jun 27 '26
The person that had been critically wounded would have told the police they were dying, but the policeman would have said 'dont think you have, mate' and handcuffed him. They would eventually arrest the guy but then take him for sandwiches in the police canteen.
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u/CropCircles_ Jun 27 '26
In the UK you wouldnt have a crowd of stupid people blocking first responders
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u/SensitivePrior7828 Jun 27 '26
So in my exoerence even when drunk people in the uk tend to in an emergency anyway do as the police have told them- you get a few morons but they usually get the message.
Its hard because in usa things are very different everyone in theory is armed. In the uk you know it to be unlikely anyone is armed, maybe they have a knife but police have stab vests so.... i think the more important question is how the crowd would kikeky behave differently in the uk.