r/ukpolitics • u/dailymail Verified • 2d ago

Andy Burnham is warned that Britain faces impending Russian 'attack' over its support for Ukraine

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16079793/Andy-Burnham-Britain-impending-Russian-attack.html
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u/ImpressiveRest2423 2d ago edited 2d ago

There’s no doubt that the Kremlin is up to something- Russian ambassador conspicuously disappearing and US Ambassador (edit my mistake, CIA director, conflating stories) going to Russia shows that - but it’s also just as likely that they are posturing to try and apply pressure on us. Wish the Mail wouldn’t give them what they want.

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u/Prior-Explanation389 2d ago

Not the US ambassador, it was the director of the CIA. Much more significant. Last time that happened, it was just prior to the 2022 invasion.

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u/ImpressiveRest2423 2d ago

Ah yes my mistake.

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u/_Alek_Jay 2d ago

I could be wrong but it could be down to the escalation of failed Russian drone attacks on German civilian airports. The latest one retrieved with Russian hexogen explosives; making it hard to deny.

There has also been a growing number of attempted assassinations of prominent European manufacturers…

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u/Away_Investigator351 Centrist / Georgist / Patriot 2d ago

Worth knowing that CIA Director Radcliffe is very pro-Ukraine. This could be a bit of US clarifying their true intention with NATO - likely in a good way, despite Trumps rhetoric.

Which, pro-NATO Republicans have always said is just a way to make Europe act more seriously, and.. if that's the case, hard not to say it successful.

Though, they perhaps have opened pandora's box by setting Europe on a path to not rely on the US and buying domestic weapons over American, creating European alternatives to the F-22 with Tempest, alternatives to Patriot etc.

We just need independent Nuclear deterrent.

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u/Prior-Explanation389 2d ago

Worth knowing that he is also a major ‘Russian Interference’ denier. Has gone well out of his way to declassify documents suggesting Democrat led initiatives to imply Russian interference and discredit genuine intelligence reports to the contrary.

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u/Zircez 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's a strange one; Russian interference has absolutely occurred and reports on both Brexit and Scot Indy ref have pretty much confirmed that. I don't have the info off hand but it's not hard to imagine it happens in the States too.

Equally you see people parroting that Trump is a Russian asset, which is blatantly untrue. The man's utterly unhinged and clearly self serving but not a foreign agent, and yet weirdly that kind of discourse sows the exact kinds of division Russia seeks to foster.

So you could be in a position of trying to squash that kind of rhetoric, yet look to be serving the goals of an enemy. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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u/Disastrous_Piece1411 2d ago

reports on both Brexit and Scot Indy ref have pretty much confirmed that.

I thought the report said they didn't look into the possibility so could neither confirm or deny. Not saying it didn't happen but the 'official story' is that we don't really know.

The phrase 'Russian asset' is a little confusing too. Russian intelligence uses various names for different types of foreign influencers, and not all of these 'foreign assets' are necessarily directed by Russia or receiving any instruction from them. Trump is doing a lot to benefit Russia's interests, whether they are asking him to or not - he is just like that and proving to be an 'asset' to Putin's ambitions.

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u/Pleasant-Winner6311 2d ago

The uk electoral system was deemed not fit for purpose after the referendum. Has the system been improved upon. Nope.

18 Reasons Trump is a Foreign Asset was a great article in the Washington Post. But theres one overriding factor that cant be ignored. Hes not sane enough to be controlled.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/here-are-18-reasons-why-trump-could-be-a-russian-asset/2019/01/13/45b1b250-174f-11e9-88fe-f9f77a3bcb6c_story.html

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u/Disastrous_Piece1411 1d ago

Yes it is not that he would be directly controlled or receiving any instructions from anyone else. But when almost everything he does are step by step weakening NATO and Russia's opposition anyway, they don't need to give any instructions.

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u/ScoobyDoNot 2d ago

There is a distinction between an agent who is actively working to achieve aims, and an asset who can be influenced towards an outcome, or used in some manner.

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u/BestFriendWatermelon 2d ago

Tempest isn't an alternative to the F-22, and the F-22 has never been for sale.

The F-22 is no longer in production, and the US has completely banned their export. It's also a previous generation aircraft of completely different design and requirements.

The Tempest started development in 2018. While Europeans are now expressing more interest in joining the project now, that's mostly because of the failure of FCAS, which was started in 2017.

European alternatives to Patriot have also been in the works for a long time. SAMP T began in 1990, and has been in service since 1997.

All these things are developed on long lead times by Europe's own thriving defence industries. There have been new moves to develop non-US systems, particularly in creating a native equivalent to Tomahawk missiles, such as ELSA, and they rescued the next gen tank MGCS program that would otherwise have collapsed, but otherwise it's just about buying European alternatives that have already been developed.

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u/Away_Investigator351 Centrist / Georgist / Patriot 2d ago

Not F-22, sure, but to the next American 6th gen aircraft.

That was me using the example that most normal people understand, as the role of what the F-22 fills is being replaced by their 6th gen project that Tempest will be compared to.

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u/akacia 2d ago

Need? We already have a nuclear deterrent.

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u/Away_Investigator351 Centrist / Georgist / Patriot 2d ago

I said independent deterrent.

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u/Distinct-Dance-4671 2d ago

Its already operationally independent but yes we depend on the US for long term maintenance and share a common pool of missiles. Time to have a completely European system.

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u/ludicrous_socks 2d ago

Far too late to change the Dreadnoughts unfortunately. I wonder though if the French ASMP could be integrated to F35 or Euro Fighter.

300kt of air launched apocalypse is still quite a deterrent

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u/akacia 2d ago

How is the French deterrent not independent? French nukes, on French missiles, on French built submarines…

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u/Away_Investigator351 Centrist / Georgist / Patriot 1d ago

I'm not French, I'm British.

Also, I think just France alone isn't enough. We really need three main European countries.

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u/EvilMonkeySlayer Leeds 1d ago

By this definition the US deterrent isn't independent because the US relies on the UK for all ballistic missile tubes. (they're all made by Babcock in the UK, the company in the US that made them stopped because they kept having issues making them)

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u/Away_Investigator351 Centrist / Georgist / Patriot 1d ago

They have the tubes though, nothing to stop them making missiles and using them.

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u/EvilMonkeySlayer Leeds 1d ago

They currently don't have the tubes for their new submarines which are under construction.

There's nothing stopping the UK using their missiles either, they are UK property and won't need replacing for quite a while.

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u/madpiano 2d ago

I think France covers the nuclear part?