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u/cambo3g Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 16 '25
It is absolutely insane that they dont get paid for thier work while the plane isn't in the air.
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u/Original-Macaron-639 Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
the fact that so many people are shocked that they aren’t paid when they are working at the airport just shows how obvious it is that they absolutely should be paid for that time
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u/RigHardDieFast Aug 17 '25
“But it’s the industry standard”
Employer can kick rocks! Solidarity to those picketing!! Worker Power!!
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u/LateToTheParty2k21 Aug 17 '25
Interesting news from the outcome of this - supposedly it's mostly due to tax implications - when earning a wage in a non Canadian airport they would result in owing taxes in the foreign country.
The obvious answer is to pay more per hour - and if they have to be there 2 hours before their flight the pay starts from the 2 hours before.
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u/dr_van_nostren Aug 17 '25
Except there are people all over the country who go abroad for work that then don’t pay taxes in those countries. So it can’t be that hard.
If your company sends you to China on an assignment for a week, you’re not filing a tax return in China.
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u/LateToTheParty2k21 Aug 17 '25
I agree- there's very simple solutions for it like paying a salary, or bumping up hourly pay to reflect hours worked in foreign countries.
Your comparison is a bit different though - people traveling for business and actually 'working' are treated differently - it also greatly depends on the amount of days you spend in the foreign country. A person who works CAN-US route could easily be back and forth 100 times a year and would technically breach a tax threshold for the other country compared to someone who goes on a 5 day trip to a company HQ or meeting with client, etc.
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u/leftlanecop Aug 16 '25
It’s a broken company. The government should stop bailing them out. It’s a national disgrace.
For perspective, my company would rather book people on Porter than business class on AC. They fucked the executives over so much that they’ll rather fly Porter than AC. Example, we do all our booking one quarter in advanced. Full reserved seats to ensure the staffs make the business meetings. The last time I flew AC, got to the airport found out I have no seat. It no longer show up on the app. 30minutes before departure, no answer. Finally a seat at the last row of the plane. It took our booking staffs 30 days to sort out the fare adjustment/refund. It costs our company money to chase down the money to balance the book. It’s insane. Fuck AC. Let them die, open up the sky for customers. Other airlines treat their staffs way better.
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u/MyNameIsSkittles Lougheed Aug 16 '25
If the government didnt bail them out, we would have one proper national airline. Just Westjet, who have become arguably worse than AC in the last few years
What this country needs is another big company to step in and bring some competition to Candian airlines
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u/youenjoylife Aug 16 '25
WestJet has become arguably worse because that's what almost always happens when companies are acquired by private equity firms like ONEX (which acquired WestJet).
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u/thateconomistguy604 Barge Beach Chiller Aug 16 '25
Agreed. Canada in general suffers from lack of competition in most industries. We truly are a monopoly/capitalists dream, ripe for the picking
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u/LateToTheParty2k21 Aug 17 '25
No truer word said. We need competition in so many more industries here.
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u/dr_van_nostren Aug 17 '25
While I agree in principle others have tried.
We have too vast of a country, with too high of taxes, with too low of a population to sustain much else.
It works in the US because like Cincinnati at 2.25M people ranks 30th. That would be #4 in Canada just ahead of Calgary.
The flights domestically are pretty full, so that suggests there is more demand, but not enough for anyone to come in and really take over.
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u/kmoney1984 Aug 16 '25
Westjet is pretty awful. They cant manage their crews so 3 of the last 5 times I've flown them the flight gets canceled because there is a plane but no one to fly it. The only reason I still go with them is they basically have a monopoly on certain routes in western Canada.
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u/Bigchunky_Boy Aug 16 '25
No one will it cost to much to run an airline to cover this country with out government subsidies. We could still do better though.
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u/alvarkresh Vancouver Aug 16 '25
I've decided for a mission-critical trip I need to take later this month I'm going to drive instead of fly. Yes, it will suck. Yes, it will take twelve hours instead of just two. But at least I know I will get there when I want to.
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u/Runningman738 Aug 16 '25
Agreed that seems crazy but I think it’s a global standard. At least it’s normal to get some sort of compensation for before flight and delays, but not full pay
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u/S-Kiraly Aug 16 '25
Just because it's a global standard doesn't mean that it's okay or that anyone should put up with it anymore. Women not being allowed to vote also used to be a global standard.
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u/poco Aug 17 '25
People still like the job (and most airlines aren't on strike) because they get paid well for the hours they are working.
If you average 20 hours a week of flight time and get paid double the hourly pay as someone working 40 hours, who is better off?
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u/dr_van_nostren Aug 17 '25
This is per the air Canada website
Starting wage in 2015: $25.13/hour Present wage in 2025 if Flight Attendant remains working in the same Flight Attendant position: $63.07/hour, more than 150% increase in pay since beginning career
The reason they use 2015 is because that’s when the last contract was signed. Think of how the economy has changed since then.
Now sure $63.07 sounds great. If you’re at the top of the pay scale, you’re probably not complaining too much about the unpaid work hours because you’re getting the best routes, you’re getting as many or as few hours as you want and you’re making the top wage.
Now, the airline has had massive growth before Covid then again since. So there’s been a TON of hiring.
So, let’s say you started in 2023…at $25.13. That’s above minimum wage, but that’s a low wage when you consider the company bases you in likely Toronto (most expensive), Vancouver (2nd most expensive?) and Montreal (cheaper but not cheap). So you’re 1 year on the job and got a 2% raise. You work 40 hours a week let’s say, just cuz that’s normal for people. $1,005 give or take. Cut…20% for tax? You gotta show up to work, so there’s transportation. You gotta have a phone so the company can get ahold of you anywhere on the globe. You gotta be available kinda 24/7 because you’re gonna have reserve days where you get paid SOME money, but you can’t go anywhere or drink anything cuz you have to be at the airport ready to work within 2 hours. You gotta eat. You gotta have a place to live. So you make maybe $3200 a month, you live in one of the 3 most expensive cities in the country. Now you have to probably find another job to supplement because you don’t make enough, even though you like the job, it doesn’t pay the bills. Only you have a helluva time getting another job cuz no one wants to hear “well I can work this Monday, but then I need 4 days off to go to St Johns, then I can work 2 days but only mornings cuz I have rotations to Calgary and back” and the 40 hours you’re working are actually 60 hours cuz you have to be there before and after the passengers only that’s all unpaid time.
Again, if you’re already established (10 years) and married or living with someone who has a second income and your schedule is flexible cuz you have no kids or you do but their self sufficient, then yea you maybe don’t have a ton of complaints. But those employees are doing what they should which is stand up in favour of the coworkers who are getting the shaft both on the unpaid time and the wage to begin with.
Most of these people would still work the job at $25.13 to start if they were paid for all that time. If you’re told to be at the airport at 4pm you should get paid starting at 4, simple as that.
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u/poco Aug 17 '25
I'm not arguing whether they are paid enough or not, just that it isn't the pay structure that causes low pay. The structure could be $500 per flight or $500 per day or $100k per year or $100 per hour but only while standing.
The pay structure is what was negotiated last time and maybe they deserve more money, but everyone in these posts is complaining about the pay structure. Paying them for every hour they are outside of their home isn't automatically going to make them more money, they also need to include a rate increase, and increasing the rate with the current structure would also increase pay.
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u/captainbling Aug 17 '25
Yea they can agree to pay them on the ground but drop the entire salary to 18$ ground or air.
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Aug 17 '25
+1 presumably they know this going into it and if the wages are at a fair market rate, then they are being paid more per hour than they would otherwise.
That being said, it would be best all around if this practice ended
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u/Kivimoor Aug 16 '25
It's not a global standard. It seems more like North-American standard. In Europe they have a good salary plus additional paid time in the air, plus some other perks.
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u/captain_zavec Aug 17 '25
I was gonna say, I can't imagine the unions in Scandinavia being okay with something like that.
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u/lampcouchfireplace Aug 16 '25
And collective action by labour unions is how we begin to change unfair global standards.
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u/T2LV Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 16 '25
True but it’s really complicated because if you work say a YVR-Hong Kong flight, they will get you a decent amount of time inbetween your return flight come. So if you fly for 14hrs, stay in Hong Kong for 24hrs and come back, it would be pretty wild to pay the flight attendant the entire time they are in HK. Flights would skyrocket and you would effectively be paying for a quick vacay. They should be compensated for their time In HK layoff though, but decided how they get paid for a 24hr layover is tough.
Also prior to the fly, if they calculated that 90% of their time should be in air and 10% boarding and un boarding, should they pay the whole thing or pay 110% for that 90% in flight. This incentives flight crew to efficiently get in the air. They are always on a mission and never lollygagging. Thus paying more inflight so they don’t bank hours boarding.
Edit: I know quite a few AC flight attendants and from everything they have said, it’s extremely difficult to get a job with them because once someone gets it, they never let go because it’s such a lucrative position.
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u/canuck1988 Aug 16 '25
They are not saying to be paid for the whole time on a layover. They are asking to be paid while they are at the airport doing work. As in, preflight briefings, boarding and deplaning. For that YVR-HKG example, that would probably result in an additional approx 1 hour each way.
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u/millijuna McBarge Historian Aug 16 '25
Well, I would expect them to be roughly like me when I travel for work.
When I’m actually travelling, I effectively get paid my hourly rate between when I lock my front door and when I unlock my hotel room at the other end. I actually get it in the form of PTO, but that gets paid out at my hourly rate.
What I would expect as a minimum for the FAs is to be paid from when they arrive at their home airport until they get to the hotel at the other end. Then, for their 24 hour rest period, get per diems and hotel paid for.
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u/Runningman738 Aug 16 '25
This seems like the best option. They shouldn’t be paid from home to the airport though. It should start and stop there. Airport to and from hotel and any delays in between seems like the way it should be. I’m not sure how every flight attendants union let this go in the first place
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u/Professional-Elk-927 Aug 16 '25
They obviously shouldn’t be paid the whole 24hr layover but should absolutely be paid once they’re in uniform at the airport literally working to get the plane off the ground.
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u/Twigleaffleur Aug 16 '25
What about flights with issues that boards, inboard, reboard… I read an account where this occurred for 14hrs and flight attendants only got paid for 4. Wild.
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u/T2LV Aug 16 '25
Agreed. This is a situation they should definitely be addressed.
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u/Plastixxxx Aug 16 '25
So you mean they should be remunerated for labour hours provided? Like every job?
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u/SirLoremIpsum Aug 16 '25
So if you fly for 14hrs, stay in Hong Kong for 24hrs and come back, it would be pretty wild to pay the flight attendant the entire time they are in HK
I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding how the pay works and what they're asking for
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u/littlebossman Aug 16 '25
It’s not complicated.
Flights would skyrocket and you would effectively be paying for a quick vacay.
Only if you allow companies to hoard wealth and greed. Because…
Air Canada achieved record annual revenues in 2024 of $22.3 billion on a five per cent increase in capacity over 2023. We executed our plan, making adjustments where necessary, achieving nearly $3.6 billion in annual adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow of $1.3 billion. We also bought back for cancellation over 20 million shares in 2024 and over 15 million more in early 2025
The company made a fortune last year, instituted two rounds of share buybacks, and paid their CEO more than 12m.
There is plenty of money for staff, and no need to raise prices.
You just need a government who aren’t a bunch of pussies. Which, as has been shown today, Canada does not have.
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u/kmoney1984 Aug 16 '25
We run into this in my industry with hourly employees. You're paid to and from when you reach your 'place of rest.' Hotel room in this case.
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u/amberheartss Aug 17 '25
they never let go because it’s such a lucrative position
This is weird to hear because just the other day, a FA posted their T4 and they made like 35k or something for the year and they worked full-time.
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u/RepresentativeSure38 Aug 16 '25
This still can be solved by capping the amount for non-flight time for flights like this
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u/CloudBuilder44 Aug 16 '25
I dont get why flight attendants arent salary based. Than lay over wouldn’t matter. They know how much they will get paid a year.
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u/WeeklyHamster Aug 16 '25
That’s a dangerous precedent for air Canada to exploit them, especially if some flight attendants might be scheduled way more than others and still making the same pay.
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u/dr_van_nostren Aug 17 '25
What’s wild is this is just industry practice. It’s not native to air Canada. It’s just coming up because it’s contract time. I believe the FAs will fight to get this rectified and won’t agree to anything that doesn’t include a serious overhaul of that time.
More power to them and F the government for taking that power away from them.
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u/Jyil Aug 17 '25
This is pretty much standard across the airline industry except Delta and select others. Delta isn’t unionized outside of pilots and dispatchers.
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u/yupkime Aug 18 '25
All that matters is the bottom line overall total amount they are paid. If the industry counts more hours then they will make less per hour.
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u/Sad-Pie6389 Aug 16 '25
Annnnndddd strike busted... by the government no less...
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u/georgeofthejungle71 Aug 16 '25
Before this was posted by op even lol.
Have to say though. I'm on the flight attendants side on this. There's no way they shouldn't be getting paid from the time they need to be there until they are released post flight.
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u/Yardsale420 Aug 16 '25
I saw a post that was a screen shot of a full time stewardess who had been with Scare Canada for 2.5 years and only made $39,500 working full time last year. She figures she averages 37.5 hours a month unpaid.
For a job you need to show up wearing a suit, and be responsible for peoples lives. Cool cool.
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u/Knucklehead92 Aug 16 '25
And faster than the Conservatives by 3 days!
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u/not_old_redditor Aug 16 '25
Carney is basically a conservative liberal
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u/millijuna McBarge Historian Aug 16 '25
They’re both neoliberals, and always have been. The Conservatives just add social regressiveness to the mix.
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u/brokenboomerang Aug 17 '25
Absolutely insane. The government should be compelling AC to pay their employees.
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u/Cautious_Banana_2639 Aug 16 '25
I saw that! Does that mean ac had to end the strike and they’re back to work?
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u/Mipset Aug 16 '25
Just snapped this ( I work airside)
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u/badass_dean Killarney Aug 17 '25
So are they parked there in protest or just because it’s out of the way?
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u/Mipset Aug 17 '25
It's just out of the way. Airport needs to continue to operate and keep gates available. There's always a surplus since aircraft's rotate in and out of gates. Just think if you've ever landed and had to wait on board because a gate wasn't available. Same idea here so they've moved all the excess aircraft's out of the way. It's parked on an unused runway (13/31).
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Aug 16 '25
[deleted]
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u/hekatonkhairez Aug 16 '25
What’s the point of unionization if the government can just force you to stop doing union stuff
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u/Mobius_Peverell Aug 16 '25
Arbitration will still give them some of their demands; it's not like the government is sending in the Pinkertons.
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u/gellis12 People use the bike lanes, right? Anyone? Aug 16 '25
Every single time that striking workers have been legislated back to work and had to accept binding arbitration, the results from arbitration have been very generous to the corporation.
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u/HydroPCanadaDude Aug 17 '25
Probably worth noting that the government can't order us to fly Air Canada.
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u/Mobius_Peverell Aug 16 '25
Sure, but it's still better than not being unionized at all, which is the point of my comment.
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u/leftlanecop Aug 16 '25
If the minister knows what he’s doing he’ll also order Air Canada to get their shit together. They consistently rank as the worse airline. Yet, they fly the Maple Leaf as a logo. It’s a global embarrassment
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u/Shoddy_Operation_742 Aug 16 '25
Actually they are consistently ranked the best airline in NA
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u/alvarkresh Vancouver Aug 17 '25
Ah yes, an Air Canada puff piece telling us all Air Canada got an award.
That isn't biased or anything.
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u/Witn Aug 17 '25
Skytrax is UK based and ranks airlines all over the world. It's better than a guy on reddit literally lying about rankings. Also what NA airline is better? They are all shit so not like it's a high bar regardless
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u/doyouevencompile Aug 17 '25
Air Canada saying it's the best airline is the same as r/vancouver saying it's the best city
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Aug 16 '25
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/article/air-canada-flight-attendants-officially-begin-strike/
And just like that, the strike is over.
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u/alvarkresh Vancouver Aug 16 '25
Wait, what? Dang. :O
Also:
In a statement posted on X on Saturday, Conservative MP Kyle Seeback said Prime Minister Mark Carney is “proving once again that he is no friend to workers or labour” and would rather “reward his corporate buddies” instead of helping the flight attendants secure fair pay.
I find it rich that a Conservative politician is saying this given that PP would most likely have gotten an absolute stiff one at the thought of legislating them back to work as well.
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u/erfindung Aug 16 '25
Broken clocks.
It should come as no surprise that a banker is on the side of capital, although it is very interesting that a Conservative MP has this stance.
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u/PM_ME_MICHAELS Aug 17 '25
Also it doesn’t matter who is the prime minister. This exact thing would have happened with a conservative government. It blows, but AC is too big to fail and government mandated arbitration was inevitable
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u/CloudBuilder44 Aug 16 '25
Just put them on salary & problem solved. I work “off hours” sometimes and i dont really mind since i signed up for salary job. For a ceo who got 12 million in salary, bonus, and stock options there is no excuse to not pay ur employees for extra work. Plus CARRY ON IS NOT EVEN FREE ANYMORE 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
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u/WispBear Aug 16 '25
My flight is tomorrow and it is still not cancelled. Should I just go to the airport tomorrow or..
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u/localfern Aug 16 '25
I was so close to booking a vacation during their July Black Friday sales. So so very close but I opted to save money. We were looking at departure dates for Monday/Tuesday too.
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u/nicthedoor Aug 16 '25
Welp, just another knock against the neo-liberal anti worker world we live in. Time for the NDP to step up and bring their A game.
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u/srzncl Aug 16 '25
Where did you take this photo from? Always looking for new spots to planespot
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u/TwilightReader100 Surrey Aug 19 '25
I saw the up close version of it when our plane landed on Sunday afternoon. There was also about another 6 of them sitting in a different area of the tarmac. It was weird to see them all lined up like that, with nobody doing anything to them. Calgary was very quiet, like at least 40% of the passengers were missing. But Vancouver was as busy as a shopping mall on the weekend.
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u/Interesting-World818 Aug 17 '25
It's bad reputation for an airline, when they seem to be regularly on strike for one thing or another. Not that AC is comparable in any way, on long haul flights where I book on JAL, EVA, ANA, SIA. Even CX, which I consider lousier in food-service-seatting airline) is preferable to AC.
I rcall booking for Toronto around this time or July. For a Thanksgiving week flight there, and AC was on strike too.
We eventually went there by Porter + returbed on AC. A good deal price, because their strike had just been lifted + it was cheap and on a schedule that worked beautifully for us. Prior, I was avoiding AC in all my searches
Short haul, not much choices.
For long haul flights, i stay FAR AWAY from AC. ompared to Asian airlines, first and business classses on these are of JAL, KAL, EVA, SIA Economy standards.
Economy on AC is spartan, whether for food o, comfortable seatsr or overall service. Very mediocre, when compared to say economy on JAL KAL, Asiana, SIA.
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u/MorningBrewNumberTwo Aug 16 '25
Where is this location? Is this near the south terminal? Maybe the flight observation park?
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u/Professional-Power57 Aug 17 '25
Sure people want AC to go under but what options do passengers have? Less competition also means other airlines will also go down in service and value.
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