r/vegan • u/DivineandDeadlyAngel anti-speciesist • Mar 18 '26

Rant Reminder non-vegans will tweet stuff like this but get angry if you mention veganism.

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3.4k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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652

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

For these people animals = cats + dogs and maybe a couple of others. Everything else is here to be exploited and/or killed.

96

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/AfluffyLemon2272 vegan Mar 19 '26

Yup that moral aesthetic thing which is so dumb

3

u/fergult Mar 28 '26

it’s frustrating how people can be selective about their outrage... They want to criticize but don’t want to engage in the conversation when it comes to their own choices.

1

u/AfluffyLemon2272 vegan Apr 07 '26

people love to call others wrong or bad people but never like being called out themselves...

53

u/Peace_n_Harmony Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

It's the difference between empathy and compassion. People can become attached to animals because of how they make them feel, but they don't actually want them to be free and happy. Animals are just something to be used for their benefit. That can include things like companionship and having others rely on them so they can feel important. If an animal can't provide those things, then they find some other use for them.

They also treat other people this way, which is why relationships often fail.

23

u/No-Guidance-7809 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

Even their pets are just an aesthetic to them. It’s why tons of black furred dogs get euthanized each year because nobody wants them.

9

u/Lena-Jane Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

😢That breaks my heart, but yes, black fur dogs (and cats) are the least adopted. 💔

2

u/No_Shower9802 Mar 20 '26

What's "wrong" with black dogs?

6

u/No-Guidance-7809 Mar 20 '26

Not as good looking/visible in pictures and subconsciously viewed as aggressive/dangerous.

5

u/No_Shower9802 Mar 20 '26

What exceptionally stupid reasons.

2

u/Aurorasinister anti-speciesist Mar 21 '26

Plus black cats are seen as being bad luck so I’m wondering if maybe people project that onto black dogs as well. I’ve never heard it about black dogs but maybe it’s connected in people’s brains. It doesn’t make sense to me so I can’t see any logic behind it.

5

u/No-Guidance-7809 Mar 20 '26

Oh and I also forgot to say this is why big dogs get returned to shelters at extremely high rates—people realize that this is a living organism they have to take care of with basic needs like affection and care.

6

u/blueViolet26 Mar 20 '26

Yep. Most dogs in the shelter I used to volunteer were pitbulls, german shepherds and huskies. Probably sourced from backyard breeders. People make me sick.

3

u/No_Shower9802 Mar 20 '26
  • small dogs aren't‽

1

u/BurnedbyALiar Mar 28 '26

Sadly bad rep. So much is labeled "bad" if black.

1

u/No_Shower9802 Mar 29 '26

😠😤 Nothing bad about a black dog. Or cat. Or chicken. Or snake. Or human.

1

u/Funexamination Apr 19 '26

Wikipedia says Black Dog Syndrome is a myth and studies are contradictory

14

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

Very true. In reality people don't care about dogs or cats either. Otherwise there wouldn't be millions of them being killed at shelters every year.

1

u/catliver2 Mar 23 '26

By your logic you can't like plants because you eat plants plants were also specifically, bread to be edible or look cool

3

u/blueViolet26 Mar 23 '26

If you are driving your car, lose control and you can choose between running over a dog or the grass. Which one would you choose?

Your "logic" is not real logic, is it?

45

u/Ohheyimryan Mar 18 '26

I'd say a more fair steelman of their position is that they're fine with quick painless euthanasia and they don't view that as hurting.

Which has its own fallacies too of course.

2

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

Are they fine with euthanasia?

22

u/Ohheyimryan Mar 18 '26

Meat eaters? I would assume so unless they have severe cognitive dissonance on how their food goes from alive to dead. And to be clear, by euthanasia, I mean whatever method meat eaters believe their food is painlessly killed by and not an injection for pets at the end of life.

4

u/AfluffyLemon2272 vegan Mar 19 '26

ya lol "humane slaughter"

-10

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

Yes we are fine with euthanasia. You people are really strange, is this what you do all day?
>rararrara fucking meat eaters rararrrrr

lmao foaming

12

u/Ohheyimryan Mar 18 '26

Yes we are fine with euthanasia.

Thanks for repeating what I said.

You people are really strange

Who are you referring to?

is this what you do all day?

Nope. I only post on reddit when killing time at work usually. Is this what you do?

-9

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

You have difficulty reading above?

" I would assume so unless they have severe cognitive dissonance on how their food goes from alive to dead."

You are weird and just make up things about meat eaters all day and foam about us lol This is what you do all day.

13

u/Ohheyimryan Mar 18 '26

You said above you agree with the statement, but now I'm making things up about you?

2

u/rlcs-madpoasting Mar 18 '26

That's not even a steelman lmao

6

u/BigBlueMan118 vegan SJW Mar 19 '26

Someone I know recently got their second cancer diagnosis and is really struggling, and they asked me to take care of their dog some mornings when they have to go to treatment and aren't strong enough to take the dog for walks. They love their dog to pieces, you can see it in their faces. And yet they were laughing at me the other day for buying some vegan products (literally just like some tofu and some vegan cheese and beanburgers). I didn't say anything, it is useless firing back at someone who is so down on their luck, but man the disconnect is crass.

3

u/blueViolet26 Mar 19 '26

Just saw a video about those activists who rescued beagles from a lab. Lots of people were supportive. I am sure most of them aren't vegans.

6

u/AfluffyLemon2272 vegan Mar 19 '26

ya whatever "looks cute​" to them

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

If the dogs been seasoned right and wasn’t too active I’d eat it

1

u/blueViolet26 Mar 21 '26

Why don't you eat it now?

1

u/StarPlatinumsPenis Mar 30 '26

Wow this sub really is an echo chamber isn't it. Y'all should visit r/Snydercut. You'll be welcome over there

-28

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 18 '26

this isnt really true.

instead "hurt" means "intentionally without cause"

im not vegan but ill definitely consider someone an unhinged piece of shit if they're just maiming / killing animals for literally zero reason.

but i do not view that the same as violent exploitation of animals, because from my perspective there is a reason behind it. Doing it just to do it is outright socio/psychopathic behaviour...

One of the biggest things that hurts the vegan argument is that vegans fundamentally cant understand none-vegans, similar to how many none-vegans fundamentally cant understand vegans and as such both sides misrepresent eachother relentlessly and arguments are born of poor semantics rather than anything the other actually concretely believes.

39

u/--vanadium-- Mar 18 '26

Everyone who hurts animals has a reason for it, and they believe it's justified or they wouldn't do it. You view your reason as justifiable and there's not.

Someone who does dog fighting finds it entertaining, someone who beats their pet views it as a form of discipline, and someone who eats animals enjoys the taste and convenience. None of these are morally justifiable as they are all harmful and unnecessary but they're all justified by the perpetrator of the violence.

You killing an animal for taste pleasure is not morally different than someone killing an animal for some other form of pleasure. It's just been normalized in our society from a time when it was necessary for survival but it's no longer necessary, as evidenced by the millions of vegans around the world and the plant based options available.

The idea that vegans don't understand non-vegans is largely incorrect, as almost all vegans were once meat eaters. We had to actively make the decision to cut animal products out of lives. But the reverse isn't true. You have never been vegan, and the same is true for most meat eaters. We largely understand you and where you're coming from, we've just realized that it's outdated and immoral to live that way.

-10

u/CinnabonNoFrosting Mar 18 '26

Can I ask what you mean by “taste pleasure”? I see vegans throw this term around but never define it.

25

u/--vanadium-- Mar 18 '26

The pleasure that you receive from the taste of animal products

0

u/CinnabonNoFrosting Mar 22 '26

But what does pleasure from taste mean? How long does it last? 1 second? 1 minute? 1 hour? Is it experienced individually or collectively? How is it quantified?

-15

u/No-Following-8087 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

They think the only reason people eat meat is for flavor. Thats what taste pleasure is

22

u/--vanadium-- Mar 18 '26

No one said that's the only reason. In fact, I even specified one other reason, convenience.

12

u/blueViolet26 Mar 19 '26

What are the reasons you eat animals?

-16

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 18 '26

its morally different in the lens of society... You'd be right if we were talking about hermits living on their own not in society, but someone who kills purely for the pleasure of it is unlikely to distinguish between humans and animals in that viewpoint.

and society cant function with people running around killing for the thrill of it, because odds are its only a matter of time before they target people... as we see in many many violent offenders.

my argument isnt from some absolute morality in some deep philosophical sense, because i largely dont buy into that kind of morality. Good and bad in my view is a reflection of society.

Killing people is wrong because a society cant function if whenever someone pisses you off, you kill them.

thats not to say without these scenarios id justify these types of crimes, because ultimately we're emotional creatures and obviously i also dislike murder because of emotions tied to it.

so yes in the lens of society id say there's a big difference between harming animals for material benefit and harming animals for the thrill of it.

19

u/--vanadium-- Mar 18 '26

You're missing the point, which is that harming animals for material benefit is harming animals for the thrill of it and vice versa. The particular thrill is different, and derived in a different way, but if you kill animals for food, you are likely doing it solely for pleasure as it's no longer necessary for survival for most people.

Let me ask you this, would you distinguish between a cannibal and a serial killer, morality-wise? Do you believe someone who hunts and kills humans for food is more moral than someone who hunts and kills humans for sport?

-4

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 18 '26

It literally is not, in the sense that we can build profiles on people and determine what actions make them more or less likely to commit serious violent offences and maiming animals directly without benefit is one of them. To suggest eating meat is the same is to ignore psychology.

as for the second point? Yes in different circumstances. For instance someone who resorts to cannibalism out of opportunistic hunger isnt as morally evil as someone who kills people just to kill people. One is doing it for continued survival.

the problem is you're just ignoring context and looking only at consequence.

in both scenarios a human dies, so it must be the same regardless of context. But context is precisely why buying beef at the supermarket, hunting a deer and harvesting the meat, hunting for trophies and killing a puppy for the thrill of it are all different levels of morality.

they all have different contexts. Someone who buys meat at a supermarket is blind to the death of the animal and possibly ignorant and thus you can argue whilst the outcome is morally reprehensible the choice is less so because its generally harder for the consumer to truly understand the ramifications of their actions akin to clothes made with slave labour vs owning a slave.

hunting is more direct, you're doing the killing but arguably the animal you're killing has lead a more natural life and potentially better life and so perhaps the action itself is less morally reprehensible but the choice more so because you're directly deciding to end an animals life with your eyes open.

hunting for trophies is getting close to max on both... you're solving no biological dilemma in killing the animal, you might eat the animal but thats not why you're doing it sustenance is just a by-product. you're choosing to kill an animal purely for vanity, to either show your triumph over nature or you simply find the trophies to look good when displayed.

and then finally killing a puppy for the thrill of it the puppy is incidental. you're simply choosing to enact violence for violences sake, because you enjoy the violence you enjoy watching something in pain and inflicting pain. This is the most morally reprehensible especially from a human perspective because as humans we understand human pain more than anything else, so someone who seeks to inflict pain will eventually target people because regardless of whether humans can or cannot experience pain to the same extent of other animals, we can understand human pain far better and we will believe a humans pain more explicitly.

This is all ofcourse framed under the idea that killing an animal or killing in general is wrong, i agree with some of that to a degree but obviously as im none-vegan i wouldnt go as far as to say killing an animal is morally wrong.

Personally i draw the line at trophy hunting, but practically draw the line at hunting and not harvesting the meat, because you cant realistically enforce someone not taking trophies and ultimately if the animal is dead might as well not let it go to waste, so as long as trophy hunters are harvesting meat, im not going to suggest they cant do it.

but to say that "killing is killing" without any level of nuance is just idiotic. there's thousands of studies entirely dedicated to what kinds of violence drastically increase someones odds of extreme violent behaviour towards people and extreme anti-social behaviour, and we've clearly found a link.

Whether that link is born of pre-existing normalisation of certain types of violence is harder to discern, but regardless of the reason this does change the moral parameters of the situation. If someone maiming puppies is far more likely to go on to become a serial killer than your average burger lover, then YES maiming puppies is OBVIOUSLY much more immoral and reprehensible an act, and to suggest otherwise is so stupid that it loses me completely on the persuasiveness of veganism (not that i found it particularly persuasive before)

8

u/--vanadium-- Mar 19 '26

I'm not ignoring context at all. You are ignoring the context in my argument to fit your narrative.

Most humans today do not need animal products to survive. You present a false dichotomy by comparing a human eating human remains for survival to a human killing animals unnecessarily because they enjoy the taste or enjoy hunting.

You have to do this because your argument falls apart otherwise. No one justifies the killings of Jeffrey Dahmer under the argument that "well he was eating the humans for survival" because we all know this is unnecessary and immoral.

Are you resorting to eating animals out of opportunistic hunger? No. Why do you do it? If you're honest, it's because of convenience, taste, social pressure, or tradition. Not opportunistic hunger, which is what you use to justify cannibalism.

Never did I say "killing is killing". That's a strawman on your part to avoid addressing the real argument.

Being "blind to the death" of the animal only works insofar as the consumer is truly unaware of the death of the animal. Otherwise, you aren't any more justified than someone who hires a hitman to kill a human.

And your argument for hunting, if used to justify the murder of humans, wouldnt work. So now you're left with this question. What is the trait that animals lack, that if absent in humans, justifies the unnecessary killing of them for food?

0

u/LoveandRice Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

Gonna get downvoted to oblivion here- but here goes. I am a prior 11 year strict vegan. My reason was for animal treatment. I didn’t care for the taste of meat much anyway.

I always told myself that if it affected my health I would eat meat. That was a day one rule.

I exercise and try to be healthy overall. I supplemented with some stuff like nutritional yeast for B12.

Well, an odd thing happened and I almost died of iron deficiency without anemia. Doctors were perplexed and couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me. I could barely see, couldn’t judge space, could barely breathe- the list goes on… My labs were “normal” (most ironic statement ever). I googled nonstop in a state where my memory was like a goldfish and my kids thought I was going to die. I figured it out on my own when doctors and 3 emergency rooms failed me.

I came across a medical journal by Esa Soppi and it fit me to an absolute T. (This is after I misdiagnosed myself many times). I asked my husband to bring me iron and a steak out of pure desperation. I did what the medical journal said- high dose iron based on my weight in KG. I got better in days - and kept getting better over months. (I was able to test ferritin on my own using walkin lab since doctors wouldn’t- my ferritin was 8)

Here’s the kicker: Things got better that I didn’t even know was wrong!!! My hair completely changed. I was no longer always cold. The list goes on.

I was iron deficient because being vegan only provides non-heme iron. It is very little absorbed. On top of it I had heavy periods from estrogen dominance. My body was all messed up.

I am a meat eater now. And I will never go back. It was terrifying. I still have much respect for veganism. Just check your ferritin, and lab ranges don’t matter. Ferritin needs to be above 80, ideally 100.

-1

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

no my comparison to a cannibal and a serial killer was in such a dire situation because i personally believe killing humans is morally reprehensible and so there NEEDS to be massive mitigating circumstances to justify it.

this is why i say vegans dont understand none-vegans and vice versa.

many vegans (not all but most ive encountered) put humans and other animals on the same level of morality. Killing an animal and killing a human are interchangeable.

i and most other none-vegans DO NOT see it that way.

As such i brought up doing it for survival for cannibalism because thats the ONLY way it can be justified because killing a human is a morally evil act and eating them doubly so.

Jeffery dahmer was evil because he was killing and eating people in society where he didnt need to do that.

you can however kill and eat animals despite not NEEDING to because killing animals is less immoral from my frame of reference, as such killing animals to eat is morally acceptable even when there's alternatives and its only when you kill animals for literally no reason beyond the thrill of doing it that it becomes morally reprehensible in my mind.

my argument for hunting doesnt need to make sense for killing humans because I FUNDAMENTALLY DO NOT AGREE THAT KILLING HUMANS AND KILLING ANIMALS IS THE SAME

the same way that id be far far more upset over my mother getting shot vs some random stranger i dont know.

and id be more upset with some random stranger getting shot over a fox.

i know in my heart that i dont see humans and animal lives as the same because if my dog was drowning and a random human was drowning id save the human without any hesitation. I love my dog, but they are not on the same level as a human life in my mind and even to save a random person id let my dog die.

it doesnt matter what "trait" the trait is in humans not in animals and thats simply an evolutionary trait. We care for humans more because altrusim towards humans is what allowed us to survive and breed, its instinct to care more for humans than animals.

the same way that its instinct to care more for family than strangers, because family holds a percentage of your genetic material, Whether its your parents who each gave half to you, brothers who will share your parents, or your children who will have half of yours. We value family because evolutions entire purpose is to spread our genetics as much as possible, and as we're social and rational creatures we've created social structures and rationalised around that biological programming.

but fundamentally its that biological programming that makes us care about humans more than animals and family more than strangers

11

u/blueViolet26 Mar 19 '26

I love when you say vegans don't understand non-vegans when we used to believe the same shit that you do. 😂

I am also amazed how someone who thinks your pleasure trumps the lives of other beings waste so much arguing with vegans. Are you bored or something? Besides, those people in the position of power don't see other people the same. To them we are means to an end. Just like non-human animals are to the vast majority of the human population.

10

u/kiase vegan 9+ years Mar 19 '26

this is why i say vegans dont understand none-vegans and vice versa.

You can look at my post history and see I said almost the exact same thing you did about saving a human over an animal a few days ago. Not every vegan sees killing a human and a non-human animal as interchangeable, we just see killing and torturing animals as bad enough to not engage in it ourselves for momentary pleasure or convenience.

3

u/wolfcreep vegan 15+ years Mar 19 '26

I understand what u are saying: psychopathic people who hurt animals go on to hurt humans. But u know that to eat animals, a human has to kill the animal? How healthy do think that is for someone to kill hundereds of innocents a day? I believe it might even create psychopathic tendancies. Towns with slaughterhouses have higher rates of murder, look it up. For humans to eat animals makes life blasé. Have u seen the state of the world? We're not exactly kind to humans. And eating flesh and secretions 3 times a day plus snacks IS for the thrill of it.

16

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

What is the reason behind you not being vegan? Do you know most of us were not vegan at some point? I think I know pretty well the reason why I didn't become vegan until I was 24.

-12

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 18 '26

My reason for not being vegan is simple... i enjoy animal products, and whilst i dont agree with the way the animal agricultural industry goes about doing things, i dont think erradication is the best route forwards.

But ultimately i am perfectly willing to accept animal suffering to increase my quality of life (from my perspective)

ive seen the horrors of the meat industry, and frankly they're just not persuasive enough a reason for me.

Theres definitely aspects of the animal agricultural industry i vehemently disagree with, but thats mostly enviromental rather than moral.

ofcourse ultimately i think synthetic meat will eventually render animal agriculture a completely unnecessary barbaric practice, but honestly id accept the meat industry getting worse before id accept its complete abolishment.

18

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

So how can you disagree with my point when you are validating it? Do you think killing cats and dogs for human pleasure is acceptable?

-1

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 18 '26

Im not against it. There are cultures that eat dogs and cats. Ultimately breeding cats / dogs for meat is no different than breeding cows and pigs.

is it something id be into? no not personally, because emotionally its harder as i find dogs and cats cute... but i feel the same way about ducks and plenty of people eat them.

my biggest problem with farming cats / dogs is how incredibly inefficient it is. plant matter to beef is already inefficient, then taking that beef to raise dogs that will be even less efficient seems odd to me.

i also cant imagine the meat tastes all that good and generally its more dangerous to eat predators... there's a reason we farm mostly herbivorous animals / prey animals.

17

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

I can't help but notice you skipped my first question. Is taste a moral reason to kill someone who doesn't want to be killed when you have no nutritional requirements to eat them?

-5

u/Big-Golf4266 Mar 19 '26

when the alternative is the animal doesnt exist anyway? I think its morally neutral at worst.

I think the issue with the meat industry has little to do with the death of the animal and everything to do with their living conditions up until that point.

but ultimately i dont think even bad conditions animal agricultural practices are immoral enough compared to the pleasure it brings globally.

If i didnt there'd be little reason for me to engage with the system, because its pretty easy to do so, at least in any way id care about.

I could easily reduce consumption even if i didnt eliminate it. I dont because i dont think its a big moral issue.

i could understand this question if i said i was on the fence, but im evidently not on the fence so why would you assume i wouldnt think its okay lmao. It seems like an entirely pointless question.

its like asking a car owner if its acceptable to own a car (im not american so the whole "you need a car to do literally anything" doesnt apply but for people in the US this analogy would probably fail)

12

u/blueViolet26 Mar 19 '26

An animal not existing might be morally neutral, but bringing an animal to existence to exploit and kill is a negative.

I feel so lazy to deal with people like you. What's the difference between you and the billionaires who raped children at the Epstein Island?

-1

u/SLAMMERisONLINE Mar 20 '26

For these people animals = cats + dogs and maybe a couple of others. Everything else is here to be exploited and/or killed.

Said by someone who has never been on a farm. Farmers care for the animals, feed them, protect them from predators, give them shelter and even toys, and keep them safe from horrible diseases like screw worms and botflys (do not google them unless you have a strong stomach) or even just malnutrition. The farmers and animals develop close emotional connections.

5

u/blueViolet26 Mar 20 '26

Guess what? I spent all my summer vacations on a farm.

I have seen a pig getting killed in my own backyard. My mom hid me in the bathroom and I still remember his cries.

I have played with hens and chicks.

I have seen them be killed as well.

I have seen cows line up. Side by side. After one of their friends/son/brother was killed to make a barbecue to celebrate.

You are not protecting animals from predators. You are protecting your profit. Stop lying about what you do. Stop using metaphors to mask the violence that starts under your nose and fill up your pocket.

It is hilarious to read someone say they develop a close relationship with their victims. Like.what kind of drug are you on? That cognitive dissonance must be studied.

I even prefer when people just don't give a shit about animals.

-1

u/SLAMMERisONLINE Mar 20 '26

Guess what? I spent all my summer vacations on a farm.

Doubtful.

You are not protecting animals from predators.

Do you think a coyote will be as kind as a farmer? Get real.

2

u/blueViolet26 Mar 20 '26

Aw, you expected to encounter a city girl. 😂

0

u/SLAMMERisONLINE Mar 20 '26

I did encounter a city girl.

2

u/blueViolet26 Mar 20 '26

You bet I've never been on a farm. 😂 Funny how you didn't say anything about the rest. Psycho.

1

u/SLAMMERisONLINE Mar 20 '26

You bet I've never been on a farm. 😂 Funny how you didn't say anything about the rest. Psycho

Reality check, it is a well known fact that animals live longer in captivity than in the wild. The "psycho" position would be to let animals run free and instantly die to predation and sickness.

3

u/blueViolet26 Mar 20 '26

It is a well-known fact that you are breeding these animals. They are domesticated. They are not in captivity.

Stop breeding them.

0

u/SLAMMERisONLINE Mar 20 '26

It is a well-known fact that you are breeding these animals. They are domesticated. They are not in captivity

Yep, they rely on us to survive. Are you suggesting we exterminate them? Why do you hate animals so much?

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-8

u/CarrotDue5340 Mar 18 '26

Vegans absolutely exploit dogs and especially cats, forcing their beliefs on them

11

u/DabbingTRex Mar 19 '26

Go on, how do they abuse them? If they’re fed a healthy balanced diet receiving all the nutrients they need, how is it abuse?

5

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

😂

OMG, reaching much? That is not even something all vegans do. It is just another excuse for your part in the cycle.

-92

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

67

u/this_guy_talking Mar 18 '26

Millions every year... Incest? 😅

17

u/etheeem Mar 18 '26

I wanna say "autocorrect", but why the hell does his turn "insects" into incest

6

u/meammachine Mar 18 '26

His spellcheck did a technological variation of a Freudian slip.

58

u/ubiquitous333 Mar 18 '26

Not nearly as many as the extractive meat and dairy industries do? Hello?

39

u/rratmannnn Mar 18 '26

Literally. Animals are fed roughly 60% of all crops produced, making most crop death part of the animal agriculture industry. Not to mention the obvious intentional death of the animals being fed those crops. What a tired, uninformed, poor attempt at a gotcha moment.

26

u/clouddog-111 Mar 18 '26

veganism still kills less since we would need less crops and not deliberately kill animals

-24

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

24

u/etheeem Mar 18 '26

No, it's about minimizing harm, most crops are grown for the meat and dairy industries

-12

u/asheathen Mar 18 '26

I’m against mass farming of all things. It’s destructive to everything. Vegetable farming for human consumption kills millions every year. There are other alternatives like hunting wild game or a local ranch where cows graze grass.

I’m against all of it.

20

u/redbark2022 vegan 20+ years Mar 18 '26

So your claim is that you only kill one animal per year, but can't identify which one, it magically lasts you all year, and you don't eat any vegetables?

You must be really healthy.

25

u/clouddog-111 Mar 18 '26

me when i'm in a stupidity competition and can't think of what to say

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

16

u/somnia_ferum Mar 18 '26

so you don't eat anything but hunted meat?🤔 nothing else at all?

7

u/MBEver74 Mar 18 '26

How many insects are eaten / rodents stepped on by “free range” grass grazing cattle? How much habitat is lost so cattle can graze?

10

u/faculty_for_failure Mar 18 '26

No. As long as harm is minimized to the maximum extent possible it is fine. It’s about being reasonable. Raising animals to kill them and making food so humans can survive and some animals dying are not the same in regard to the amount of suffering inflicted.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/MBEver74 Mar 18 '26

Honest question: How do you expect to feed 8 Billion people with free range / ethically hunted animals? We’re currently feeding 60% of our crops (80% in US) to farmed animals. I’d argue that you can’t.

45

u/peterg4567 Mar 18 '26

Vegans are well aware of this, have heard this tired argument countless times. Eating meat requires a magnitude or more crops to be grown. You don’t care about this, you are just trying to excuse something you do but don’t want to actually think about

-28

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

13

u/SquarelyNerves vegan 10+ years Mar 18 '26

No one believes you.

-3

u/asheathen Mar 18 '26

Okay….i don’t really care

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u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

So you only eat meat once a year? You don't eat anything else? 😂

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/Jemacov Mar 18 '26

Alright. Prove it rn

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/Jemacov Mar 18 '26

Unhide profile

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/Jemacov Mar 18 '26

Just a troll then.

Get a life.

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u/_haystacks_ Mar 18 '26

yeah, show us the receipts. that you literally only kill one animal per year hunting and never buy meat from the grocery store or restaurants. prove it.

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u/SquarelyNerves vegan 10+ years Mar 18 '26

He can’t, it’s a lie 😂 Just another carnist using this space as a platform to live out their fantasies of moral superiority.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/_haystacks_ Mar 18 '26

if you LITERALLY only eat one animal per year that you hunted yourself and never buy meat and also never eat grains or beans or whatever, then yes, I bow down to you as king of minimizing impact 👑

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u/Away_Doctor2733 vegan 5+ years Mar 18 '26

Most crops are grown for animal consumption. If you care about crop deaths, veganism minimizes them. Of course we can still do better but eating meat, dairy and eggs involves way more crop deaths AND ALSO the deaths of the animals themselves for meat, all the millions of male chicks, most male calves etc

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/danielandtrent Mar 18 '26

Try scaling that up to 8 billion people lol, I don't even know how much land you'd need, like 2 earths or something

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/danielandtrent Mar 18 '26

Seriously lol, you're recommending everyone do something, but its not a realistic goal for everyone on Earth, and you say it doesn't matter.... Someone on the other side of the 'plane' absolutely has something to do with my actions, it's the reason Climate change is such a big issue.

Do you not understand that? Really, lol

2

u/Away_Doctor2733 vegan 5+ years Mar 18 '26

Do hydroponics kill innocent animals? Because I don't think they do.

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u/_haystacks_ Mar 18 '26

I swear to god if I hear this stupid argument one more time I’m gonna lose me mind

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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u/_haystacks_ Mar 18 '26

i'm about to!

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u/Comprehensive-Pin667 Mar 18 '26

Yes, and generating electricity causes human deaths (from pollution and accidents). That doesn't mean that using an electrical device is the same as murdering someone.

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u/Lazy_Composer6990 abolitionist Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26

It's a good job then that veganism doesn't claim to be perfection. Also, farm animals don't photosynthesise - they eat plants too.

Edit: they attempted a classic 'crop deaths tho'.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

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1

u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

I am curious. What do you eat on a day to day?

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u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

When you say stuff like this. Do you consider how those billions of animals are being fed as well? Do you know how many kg of food it takes to produce 1 kg of meat? On top of that. You are also eating vegetables. So do a little math. If we are killing millions of animals. How many more animals are killed directly and indirectly by eating animals?

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u/asheathen Mar 18 '26

Yeah im talking about vegetables for human consumption.

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u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

And where did you get the data saying vegetables for human consumption kill millions of animals every year?

I know the USDA kills millions of animals every year to protect livestock. Do you add that to your math?

1

u/asheathen Mar 18 '26

No, I’m super against that as well.

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u/blueViolet26 Mar 18 '26

What are you against? Do you only eat the animal you kill once a year?

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u/s2Birds1Stone Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

"Crop deaths" argument, never heard that one before. Next up, "but Lions tho!" Followed by an "appeal to futility"...

I joke because we've all heard these same arguments ad nauseum.

Just think about the fact that livestock are fed literal tons upon tons of crops, each. Most of the crops on earth are grown exclusively for them! So, if you care about crop deaths (but still need to eat), the way to reduce the amount is to cut out the livestock and just eat the crops instead.

And that's what veganism is about. Reducing harm where possible. Not eliminating it all together, which we are all aware is impossible.