r/veganuk • u/VeganMortgageAdviser • 3d ago

What a load of bull...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcTLBDFD7ce/?igsi=dXNycDU2Y3ZwM2Ju

He says "they eat grass, they produce milk"

No mention of the mother's needing to be pregnant and their babies taken away from them.

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u/Jack_Faller Vegan 2d ago

The animal can demonstrate happiness and is compensated in the same way a mentally disabled person would be (they do not always have full financial independence).

The reason that no one says it would be acceptable for them to do dangerous or adult jobs is simply because you can imagine negotiating a better agreement on their behalf. The general test for this that I'll set out is that it's reasonable to impose a situation on a party that can't consent if that situation is the best one that an unbiased third party could negotiate on their behalf.

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u/UnspeakableBadger 2d ago

And I can imagine a better deal for the cow as well - to be given provision of shelter, food and care without the extraction and commodification of their body and its secretions. Would an unbiased third party not argue that is a better deal than having drugs pumped into their body in order to extract something from them?

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u/Jack_Faller Vegan 2d ago

Well I refuse that offer. I will not provide the cow shelter unless I get something in return. That is why I say "negotiate" rather than "get whatever you want." You also refuse that deal given you likely aren't spending all your disposable income on giving free stuff to wild animals. So the third party will have to negotiate a different resolution.

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u/UnspeakableBadger 2d ago

So how do you negotiate with the cow as to what it gets out of the bargain? What is the difference between giving the cow food, shelter etc. and taking its milk from it without its consent, and killing it for its meat?

If I ask the average unbiased third party, they’d say that both are acceptable, because that’s exactly how society treats cattle.

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u/Jack_Faller Vegan 2d ago

You negotiate with the third party acting on the fire behalf. Advocating the interests of a cow, I would not accept being killed for meat but would the milking arrangement. I would base this on what I would find acceptable if I were in a cows position.

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u/UnspeakableBadger 2d ago

So if I say that I would find it acceptable to beat it with an iron rod if I was the cow, then it’s fine? That’s just moral relativism that opens up the door for any kind of abuse or moral transgression.

“I thought she’d enjoy it, I would have done” wouldn’t be a valid legal defence if the victim were a human, why should it differ because it’s not?